Chuquita wrote:
I agree with this. I hope the antagonists of the next arc are fun. They can't do two tournaments in a row.
So there will be at least one more arc before eoz can theoretically happen
That's true. I'd like to think we're getting at least one more villain arc after this tournament.
I don't know their plans with EoZ though. Would they skip to it finally? Will they rebrand if they do?
I do want a villain arc next, just one more before they EoZ because EoZ might be where I drop off. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed Rosé and Zamasu, but I want to see more new villain arcs happen before we hit Z's end.
It's not even that I dislike tournaments, I just don't like the setup for this one.
The thread doesn't make a whole lot of sense really. Being as the first 27 episodes were retelling so of course had the same characters as the movies then there wouldn't be any new villains. So really it should be "only 1 villain in 73 episodes".
That would still be wrong though because there was Copy Vegeta, Gryll, Zamasu, Future Zamasu and Watagash. That's 5 villains.
There's only been 5 sagas, 2 of these were retellings and 2 of them were Tournaments. There's only been "1 villain" because there's only been the 1 saga that's focused on an evil character doing evil things.
Zamasu/Goku Black are the same character so they are 1 villain. I don't really count "filler villains" like Purple Vegeta or the Barry parasite or whatever that was. That's like counting the aliens on fake Namek in DBZ or something.
precita wrote:Zamasu/Goku Black are the same character
No, they're different characters. Just like how Future Trunks is a different character from Kid Trunks
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:
Spoiler:
HeroR wrote:The characters in Super can work with Goku and they're treated like equals to him. Goku just being in the room doesn't take away from the character. In Z, the characters were so depended on Goku that they couldn't go an episode without mentioning him in some way even by hoping he will arrived, get better, training to get stronger, our last hope, being like him, ect. Goku was wanked to hell in Z, even when he wasn't in the room and everyone else was secondary to him. In fact, this was a major issue Goku had, which is why he didn't want to do anything in the Buu Saga.
Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back.
precita wrote:Zamasu/Goku Black are the same character
No, they're different characters. Just like how Future Trunks is a different character from Kid Trunks
There's a bigger difference between the two Trunks not only because one is literally a kid and there's a huge age difference, but Future Trunks lived in apocalyptic world full of death and despair that radically changed his outlook on life. Their lives were completely different.
The two Zamasu's are practically the same age and one is only from the near future. They also have almost the same personality, it's barely any different.
precita wrote:Zamasu/Goku Black are the same character
No, they're different characters. Just like how Future Trunks is a different character from Kid Trunks
There's a bigger difference between the two Trunks not only because one is literally a kid and there's a huge age difference, but Future Trunks lived in apocalyptic world full of death and despair that radically changed his outlook on life. Their lives were completely different.
The two Zamasu's are practically the same age and one is only from the near future. They also have almost the same personality, it's barely any different.
Black and Zamasu have differing personalities due to the influence of their separate breaking points and their bodies. Black is heavily influenced by the urges of Goku's saiyan body, the thirst for battle and testing his limits by refusing the opportunity to become immortal, a drive to improve, and even a small amount of respect for the human he despises so much. He even gets to the point that he makes fun of Zamasu's ego.
Zamasu and Black's goals are the same, but their personalities differ enough for them to be separate characters.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:
Spoiler:
HeroR wrote:The characters in Super can work with Goku and they're treated like equals to him. Goku just being in the room doesn't take away from the character. In Z, the characters were so depended on Goku that they couldn't go an episode without mentioning him in some way even by hoping he will arrived, get better, training to get stronger, our last hope, being like him, ect. Goku was wanked to hell in Z, even when he wasn't in the room and everyone else was secondary to him. In fact, this was a major issue Goku had, which is why he didn't want to do anything in the Buu Saga.
Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back.
Bullza wrote:The thread doesn't make a whole lot of sense really. Being as the first 27 episodes were retelling so of course had the same characters as the movies then there wouldn't be any new villains. So really it should be "only 1 villain in 73 episodes".
That would still be wrong though because there was Copy Vegeta, Gryll, Zamasu, Future Zamasu and Watagash. That's 5 villains.
There's only been 5 sagas, 2 of these were retellings and 2 of them were Tournaments. There's only been "1 villain" because there's only been the 1 saga that's focused on an evil character doing evil things.
Hes counting Beerus as new in Super but not as a villain. I'm also assuming he means main arc villains....not random one offs like the Copy Vegeta.
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I noticed this too but I think it's ok. All we really had in in DBZ was villains and 3 of them. I like DBS taking a different approach with rivals and tournaments
"Gohan, let it go. It is not a sin to fight for the right cause. There are those who words alone will not reach. Cell is such a being. I know how you feel Gohan, you are gentle, you do not like to hurt. I know because I too have learned these feelings. But it is because you cherish life that you must protect it. Please drop your restraints. Protect the life I once loved. You have the strength, my scanners sensed it..." -Android 16
KingKaash wrote:I noticed this too but I think it's ok. All we really had in in DBZ was villains and 3 of them. I like DBS taking a different approach with rivals and tournaments
DBZ had main villains and side villains. It's not like we just had Vegeta/Freeza/Cell/Buu. All the minions and underlings and characters we got until the "final villain" were great to have too.
What? Out of the 5 major arcs in Super so far, 3 of them have had a central antagonist (Beerus, Golden Freeza and Zamasu/Goku Black). I mean, if we're talking about new villains, the format of the show's arc since the "new" content (Episode 28 and on-ward) we've had two tournaments, which don't really provide the best setting for a major antagonist, and only really one arc where the structure of the narrative has allowed for a true villain to take center stage (Future Trunks arc).
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
To answer the question if it's having trouble coming up with villains? No it isn't. They don't have any difficulty creating villains, because they're not trying to create conventional villains or villains at all. For example, Zen'o. He has committed villainous acts, but he himself isn't a villain. Then there's the fact that up to this point as far as we know, Jiren isn't really a villain, the Angels are neutral, and Champa isn't really a villain either (and asshole maybe, but not a villain). We had very few major villains in Super so far because they didn't want to create more major villains yet.
Hellspawn28 wrote:It does not bother me because it is nice to do something different. We don't always need a "Villain stronger than the last villain trying to destroy the Earth" plot over and over again.
This
I mean how many villains can there be anymore that can rival them? I mean Frieza was the strongest in U7 and they could only find stronger villains by creating androids and by waking up an old monster that killed gods. And in Super they had to bring in a god of destruction and bring back Freeza again, and another god who thought he was doing good and started on that path because of Goku. There aren't just a bunch of god level villains that are waiting to have an arc made about them, lol.
This thread proves why some of the criticism of Super is ridiculoous. Why is a lack of villans a negative? Just because it isn't like Z? There is nothing intristc about villans that makes them a positive. Considering that this arc hasn't even ended how can you even claim that there is no villan?
Also there's a difference between a Villan and an Antogonist, every single arc has had an Antogonist, some were villans like Black, Zamasu and Barry Kahn. Others were netreul like Beerus and Hit and quite a few of them are full on Hero's like Cabba and the Pride Troopers. You don't need a villan to set up a conflict or to have high stakes.
Hellspawn28 wrote:It does not bother me because it is nice to do something different. We don't always need a "Villain stronger than the last villain trying to destroy the Earth" plot over and over again.
This
I mean how many villains can there be anymore that can rival them? I mean Frieza was the strongest in U7 and they could only find stronger villains by creating androids and by waking up an old monster that killed gods. And in Super they had to bring in a god of destruction and bring back Freeza again, and another god who thought he was doing good and started on that path because of Goku. There aren't just a bunch of god level villains that are waiting to have an arc made about them, lol.
These characters dont exist until someone writes them. No-one has ever been waiting around.
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Hellspawn28 wrote:It does not bother me because it is nice to do something different. We don't always need a "Villain stronger than the last villain trying to destroy the Earth" plot over and over again.
This
I mean how many villains can there be anymore that can rival them? I mean Frieza was the strongest in U7 and they could only find stronger villains by creating androids and by waking up an old monster that killed gods. And in Super they had to bring in a god of destruction and bring back Freeza again, and another god who thought he was doing good and started on that path because of Goku. There aren't just a bunch of god level villains that are waiting to have an arc made about them, lol.
These characters dont exist until someone writes them. No-one has ever been waiting around.
...I obviously know that... But villains (should) come from a logical place. It is bad writing to just have a god level bad guy show up every year.
I mean how many villains can there be anymore that can rival them? I mean Frieza was the strongest in U7 and they could only find stronger villains by creating androids and by waking up an old monster that killed gods. And in Super they had to bring in a god of destruction and bring back Freeza again, and another god who thought he was doing good and started on that path because of Goku. There aren't just a bunch of god level villains that are waiting to have an arc made about them, lol.
These characters dont exist until someone writes them. No-one has ever been waiting around.
...I obviously know that... But villains (should) come from a logical place. It is bad writing to just have a god level bad guy show up every year.
Yeah I agree with that. I dont mind the route they have gone honestly. I really like Hit, Beerus was cool in BOG and we got Black.
I do think the thread brings up an interesting point though.
Also the person doesnt have to come from U7 when it happens. Much like Zamasu.
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Quote if I were to Hakai someone: "Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru. Hakai!"
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
These characters dont exist until someone writes them. No-one has ever been waiting around.
...I obviously know that... But villains (should) come from a logical place. It is bad writing to just have a god level bad guy show up every year.
Yeah I agree with that. I dont mind the route they have gone honestly. I really like Hit, Beerus was cool in BOG and we got Black.
I do think the thread brings up an interesting point though.
Also the person doesnt have to come from U7 when it happens. Much like Zamasu.
I'm fine with all the antagonists so far. A problem with villains coming from other universes that are god tier (and I mean villains not antagonists) is that I feel like the GoD would of got rid of them. Zamasu was good because he wasn't a villain at first and he thought what he was doing was right. Him starting his plan was also pushed by Goku, hence why it didn't already happen, and even still he wouldn't of been god tier without taking Goku's body and the super dragon balls. At this point I think Super will have more neutral antagonists (kind of like Zeno) where they have to be stopped or they are against U7 (like the ToP) but they aren't necessarily evil. I kind of prefer it that way, it's more realistic (there aren't many straight up villains in real life), it leads to more complex characters and motivation, and it makes more sense because someoen evil who is that strong would have his presence know. Frieza was known throughout U7 and even Beerus knew of him and he wasn't even close to god tier. Also I like how Frieza (a villain) is on the U7 team while good guys (pride troopers) are the antagonists.
dragon boss z wrote:
...I obviously know that... But villains (should) come from a logical place. It is bad writing to just have a god level bad guy show up every year.
Yeah I agree with that. I dont mind the route they have gone honestly. I really like Hit, Beerus was cool in BOG and we got Black.
I do think the thread brings up an interesting point though.
Also the person doesnt have to come from U7 when it happens. Much like Zamasu.
I'm fine with all the antagonists so far. A problem with villains coming from other universes that are god tier (and I mean villains not antagonists) is that I feel like the GoD would of got rid of them. Zamasu was good because he wasn't a villain at first and he thought what he was doing was right. Him starting his plan was also pushed by Goku, hence why it didn't already happen, and even still he wouldn't of been god tier without taking Goku's body and the super dragon balls. At this point I think Super will have more neutral antagonists (kind of like Zeno) where they have to be stopped or they are against U7 (like the ToP) but they aren't necessarily evil. I kind of prefer it that way, it's more realistic (there aren't many straight up villains in real life), it leads to more complex characters and motivation, and it makes more sense because someoen evil who is that strong would have his presence know. Frieza was known throughout U7 and even Beerus knew of him and he wasn't even close to god tier. Also I like how Frieza (a villain) is on the U7 team while good guys (pride troopers) are the antagonists.
Yeah I cant really say I disagree with any of this. Very well put man.
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Wasn't Buu supposed to be the last major threat until EOZ? So I can see the reason for a lack villains, so far, what we've gotten in Super has been tame compared to Buu, and Zamasu was from another timeline so I wouldn't really count him. If we make it past EOZ, I can definitely see them having to face another major Big Bad, but right now is a good period for the tournaments and exploring other Universes in the 10 years of peace gap.
Makai wrote:Wasn't Buu supposed to be the last major threat until EOZ? So I can see the reason for a lack villains, so far, what we've gotten in Super has been tame compared to Buu, and Zamasu was from another timeline so I wouldn't really count him. If we make it past EOZ, I can definitely see them having to face another major Big Bad, but right now is a good period for the tournaments and exploring other Universes in the 10 years of peace gap.
Well in EOZ we never knew Goku and Vegeta met Beerus, discovered God ki, fought beings from other universes, and went on all these adventures either...but now we do.
