In the end, Master Roshi outperformed both Krillin and Tenshinhan, by a lot...

[LowRyder2005]

Other than the points made by MainJPW, Toei's website already describes Krillin as the strongest Earthling by the time the tournament takes place. It should be enough to close any debates pertaining to Roshi vs. Krillin, at least as far as having an edge in raw power goes.

[blackbewhite2k7]

I'd probably like Tien Town if it weren't for his annoyingly rabid fan base that gets off on measuring Tien Turn against Krillin.

All I can say is I'm so glad he is finally gone.

Funny. Weren't you the one telling ME not to respond to YOU?

Tenshinhan got as many solo eliminations as Krillin, with the latter getting more assists and the former getting more saves given what a bind Gohan and Piccolo were in this episode.

Both did fine for what it was, but got overshadowed by Roshi.

Enough with the negativity.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I'd probably like Tien Town if it weren't for his annoyingly rabid fan base that gets off on measuring Tien Turn against Krillin.

All I can say is I'm so glad he is finally gone.

Funny. Weren't you the one telling ME not to respond to YOU?

Tenshinhan got as many solo eliminations as Krillin, with the latter getting more assists and the former getting more saves given what a bind Gohan and Piccolo were in this episode.

Both did fine for what it was, but got overshadowed by Roshi.

Enough with the negativity.

Yeah dude that was a while ago and I apologize. No negative feelings here towards you personally.

[blackbewhite2k7]

I'd probably like Tien Town if it weren't for his annoyingly rabid fan base that gets off on measuring Tien Turn against Krillin.

All I can say is I'm so glad he is finally gone.

Funny. Weren't you the one telling ME not to respond to YOU?

Tenshinhan got as many solo eliminations as Krillin, with the latter getting more assists and the former getting more saves given what a bind Gohan and Piccolo were in this episode.

Both did fine for what it was, but got overshadowed by Roshi.

Enough with the negativity.

Yeah dude that was a while ago and I apologize. No negative feelings here towards you personally.

Apology accepted. Let's all just agree Krillin and Tien deserved a bit more and move on. Not the worst showing, granted, but still...

[Shinda Forever]

I think Krillin did better than master Roshi, because, actually he had a melee fight against the fox, on the other hand, Roshi is having a lot of screentime which is ridiculous.

[blackbewhite2k7]

I think Krillin did better than master Roshi, because, actually he had a melee fight against the fox, on the other hand, Roshi is having a lot of screentime which is ridiculous.

Roshi had a melee fight with Gano's in his muscle bird form and literally snapped that one girls energy spear with his finger tips. Roshi's had just as many, if not more eliminations by himself than Krillin and Tien combined.

I was floored seeing the old man backhand the former into a wall without even transforming.

[Shinda Forever]

I think Krillin did better than master Roshi, because, actually he had a melee fight against the fox, on the other hand, Roshi is having a lot of screentime which is ridiculous.

Roshi had a melee fight with Gano's in his muscle bird form and literally snapped that one girls energy spear with his finger tips. Roshi's had just as many, if not more eliminations by himself than Krillin and Tien combined.

I was floored seeing the old man backhand the former into a wall without even transforming.

That's true, i forgot that one, i guess you are right.

[Lionel]

Roshi really has been a treasure this arc. Who could have anticipated him performing so aptly that he would outshine Tenshinhan or Krillin? I feel bad for those two because the Roshi we're seeing now is a far-cry from the one who was passing on the mantle after admitting that a new generation of fighting prodigies had emerged back during the 22nd and 23rd tournaments. I do feel it's important to note that the conditions which lead to Krillin and Tenshinhan's eliminations weren't experienced by Roshi. Considering how much stronger Frost was than Krillin and Hermila's discreet obliteration of the groundwork Tenshinhan was positioned on, I can't see how Roshi would have been able to escape being eliminated himself if he had been put into their respective situations. Moreover, at the end of his episode last week, Roshi was at the end of his rope on the verge of dying; he had to be resuscitated by Goku and then hoisted over to some debris for him to recuperate on. Krillin and Tenshinhan still seemed to be well supplied for stamina before getting eliminated.

[Lord Beerus]

Nothing about Roshi's performance in the tournament indicates that he is stronger than Krillin in any capacity. Especially since half of Roshi's eliminations relied on him using skill instead of raw power. And especially even more so when all of the opponents that Roshi eliminated are impossible to gauge in terms of power because of how they fought. Krillin is still the strongest human and nothing has contradicted that so far.

In fact, considering Goku had to go Super Saiyan to prevent himself from getting ringed out in the mock tournament-style sparring match that he and Krillin had, and a beefed up and talisman enhanced Roshi got easily defeated with a single Kamehameha from Goku in his base form, I'd say Super had made it even more clear cut that Krillin is head and shoulders above the rest of the humans in Dragon Ball so far.

[HeroR]

Nothing about Roshi's performance in the tournament indicates that he is stronger than Krillin in any capacity. Especially since half of Roshi's eliminations relied on him using skill instead of raw power. And especially even more so when all of the opponents that Roshi eliminated are impossible to gauge in terms of power because of how they fought. Krillin is still the strongest human and nothing has contradicted that so far.

In fact, considering Goku had to go Super Saiyan to prevent himself from getting ringed out in the mock tournament-style sparring match that he and Krillin had, and a beefed up and talisman enhanced Roshi got easily defeated with a single Kamehameha from Goku in his base form, I'd say Super had made it even more clear cut that Krillin is head and shoulders above the rest of the humans in Dragon Ball so far.

In the episode, Goku said that was Roshi's own strength. It wasn't beefed up.

[blackbewhite2k7]

Nothing about Roshi's performance in the tournament indicates that he is stronger than Krillin in any capacity. Especially since half of Roshi's eliminations relied on him using skill instead of raw power. And especially even more so when all of the opponents that Roshi eliminated are impossible to gauge in terms of power because of how they fought. Krillin is still the strongest human and nothing has contradicted that so far.

In fact, considering Goku had to go Super Saiyan to prevent himself from getting ringed out in the mock tournament-style sparring match that he and Krillin had, and a beefed up and talisman enhanced Roshi got easily defeated with a single Kamehameha from Goku in his base form, I'd say Super had made it even more clear cut that Krillin is head and shoulders above the rest of the humans in Dragon Ball so far.

Well, I said that mostly in jest. Roshi is more than likely the third strongest human, given his deadliest move @ 100% (and magic boosted) merely stunned and winded Tien momentarily.

The point still stands he out-shined both Krillin and Tenshinhan in this tournament.

Also, the only reason Roshi got beat by that kamehameha so easily was due to Chiaotzu distracting Yurin long enough so he wouldn't dodge the blast (ie stationary/receiving no commands to do so) He was at least fighting on par with base goku prior to that, talisman buff or no.

[LowRyder2005]

Nothing about Roshi's performance in the tournament indicates that he is stronger than Krillin in any capacity. Especially since half of Roshi's eliminations relied on him using skill instead of raw power. And especially even more so when all of the opponents that Roshi eliminated are impossible to gauge in terms of power because of how they fought. Krillin is still the strongest human and nothing has contradicted that so far.

In fact, considering Goku had to go Super Saiyan to prevent himself from getting ringed out in the mock tournament-style sparring match that he and Krillin had, and a beefed up and talisman enhanced Roshi got easily defeated with a single Kamehameha from Goku in his base form, I'd say Super had made it even more clear cut that Krillin is head and shoulders above the rest of the humans in Dragon Ball so far.

In the episode, Goku said that was Roshi's own strength. It wasn't beefed up.

Goku doesn't specifically make a clarification about Roshi's power being entirely his own. He just lead most of the viewers towards the conclusion it was Roshi's own strength because he was finally understanding the bulkier Roshi's "max power" in combat and had complimented him.

We know that when confronted with the "how could Roshi be this strong" you have a writer of the show stating Roshi was empowered by the magic and such a statement from the horse's mouth obviously takes precedence over Goku's words. The notion doesn't also come out of the blue in the context of the episode, since Tien already has to exert some visible force to restrain his own students before removing Yurin's seals, who are average Earthlings fighters (with a battle power in the tens) who can't even control ki.

We are left with the possible conclusion that Goku - probably getting the gist of what kind of power-up the magic gave the students - might have just been able to deduce Roshi's strength regardless of the magic -- this strength underneath the magic warranting a compliment on his part. In any way, we already know the possessed Roshi's strength is not the strength he had immediately before the possession.

[MrBlackFox]

And this is so far the best Super did, I honestly couldn't have desired better and more, awesome

[HeroR]

Goku doesn't specifically make a clarification about Roshi's power being entirely his own. He just lead most of the viewers towards the conclusion it was Roshi's own strength because he was finally understanding the bulkier Roshi's "max power" in combat and had complimented him.

We know that when confronted with the "how could Roshi be this strong" you have a writer of the show stating Roshi was empowered by the magic and such a statement from the horse's mouth obviously takes precedence over Goku's words. The notion doesn't also come out of the blue in the context of the episode, since Tien already has to exert some visible force to restrain his own students before removing Yurin's seals, who are average Earthlings fighters (with a battle power in the tens) who can't even control ki.

We are left with the possible conclusion that Goku - probably getting the gist of what kind of power-up the magic gave the students - might have just been able to deduce Roshi's strength regardless of the magic -- this strength underneath the magic warranting a compliment on his part. In any way, we already know the possessed Roshi's strength is not the strength he had immediately before the possession.

Goku said this was Roshi when he isn't holding back and he has been training. Nothing about him being beefed. Roshi himself confirmed that he has been training, confirming what Goku stated.

The writer also doesn't know everything since he claimed Goku couldn't destroy the universe, despite the narrator saying in the Battle of Gods Saga that both Beerus and Goku were hitting with the force to destroy the universe. When confronted with this, he revised his statement to, 'Goku wouldn't destroy the universe' instead of can't. And that writer isn't the horse's mouth since he didn't write the episode in question.

[LowRyder2005]

Goku doesn't specifically make a clarification about Roshi's power being entirely his own. He just lead most of the viewers towards the conclusion it was Roshi's own strength because he was finally understanding the bulkier Roshi's "max power" in combat and had complimented him.

We know that when confronted with the "how could Roshi be this strong" you have a writer of the show stating Roshi was empowered by the magic and such a statement from the horse's mouth obviously takes precedence over Goku's words. The notion doesn't also come out of the blue in the context of the episode, since Tien already has to exert some visible force to restrain his own students before removing Yurin's seals, who are average Earthlings fighters (with a battle power in the tens) who can't even control ki.

We are left with the possible conclusion that Goku - probably getting the gist of what kind of power-up the magic gave the students - might have just been able to deduce Roshi's strength regardless of the magic -- this strength underneath the magic warranting a compliment on his part. In any way, we already know the possessed Roshi's strength is not the strength he had immediately before the possession.

Goku said this was Roshi when he isn't holding back and he has been training. Nothing about him being beefed. Roshi himself confirmed that he has been training, confirming what Goku stated. And that writer isn't the horse's mouth since he didn't write the episode in question.

I meant "horse's mouth" as in "part of the writing team of Dragon Ball Super", which is definitely a more direct affiliation with the source material (and the process of writing the actual dialogue) than a fan who's trying to interpret things accordingly.

Like I already this, the bolded is basically irrelevant, since the scene in question only proves Goku finally got a clear understanding of what Roshi's power was. I don't quite get what the qualm is supposed to be, as that condition is fulfilled in both scenarios and the scene and dialogue do work regardless of Roshi's power being boosted or not as long as Goku is able factor out the power-up. Nothing states he couldn't do it, since he already had a way to gauge the effect of Yurin's magic on the ki of the students. Citing that Roshi had been training or that Goku complimented Roshi's training is also unrelated, since the training doesn't exclude the witchcraft power-up and vice versa.

Secondly, a writer obviously may not know everything, but since his claim actually doesn't create contradictions, his word counts more than your or my take on the scene.
Besides, like I already said (*2), his clarification actually makes things more intuitive in the bigger picture than claiming that Roshi's strength wasn't amplified. Everything indicates the students' was, why wouldn't Roshi's?

At this point the accusation he got something wrong, never minding that he was actively trying to dispel the confusion about the very scene in which you're trying to say he supposedly got the dialogue wrong (a really egregious, if not ironical mistake), is just baseless and looks more like arguing for arguing's sake to me.

The writer also doesn't know everything since he claimed Goku couldn't destroy the universe, despite the narrator saying in the Battle of Gods Saga that both Beerus and Goku were hitting with the force to destroy the universe. When confronted with this, he revised his statement to, 'Goku wouldn't destroy the universe' instead of can't.

I don't know about the occasion you're referring to; then again, unless he got wrong the fact that the fight between "Beerus and Goku would eventually destroy the universe" there'd virtually be no particularly controversial material here, also, as in a discrepancy between the narrator and the writer.

Goku has never been stated to be able to destroy (at least in the sense of "busting" it was probably intended back there) the universe through his own power, or at least not yet. So even this subtle implication that Toshio could be horribly uninformed on the most basic stuff, other than being fairly gratuitous, doesn't really hold well.
Never mind that the guy uses Google translator, and I wouldn't be surprised if some undertones like "woulda", "shoulda" and "coulda" could amount to pretty subtle differences when decoding and re-encoding the questions he gets from fans. His statement on Tien, however, at the very least looked pretty clear-cut when he said he "thought Tien was stronger" and that he "realized that Roshi was empowered by magic".

[HeroR]

Goku said this was Roshi when he isn't holding back and he has been training. Nothing about him being beefed. Roshi himself confirmed that he has been training, confirming what Goku stated. And that writer isn't the horse's mouth since he didn't write the episode in question.

I meant "horse's mouth" as in "part of the writing team of Dragon Ball Super", which is definitely a more direct affiliation with the source material (and the process of writing the actual dialogue) than a fan who's trying to interpret things accordingly.

Like I already this, the bolded is basically irrelevant, since the scene in question only proves Goku finally got a clear understanding of what Roshi's power was. I don't quite get what the qualm is supposed to be, as that condition is fulfilled in both scenarios and the scene and dialogue do work regardless of Roshi's power being boosted or not as long as Goku is able factor out the power-up. Nothing states he couldn't do it, since he already had a way to gauge the effect of Yurin's magic on the ki of the students. Citing that Roshi had been training or that Goku complimented Roshi's training is also unrelated, since the training doesn't exclude the witchcraft power-up and vice versa.

Secondly, a writer obviously may not know everything, but since his claim actually doesn't create contradictions, his word counts more than your or my take on the scene.
Besides, like I already said (*2), his clarification actually makes things more intuitive in the bigger picture than claiming that Roshi's strength wasn't amplified. Everything indicates the students' was, why wouldn't Roshi's?

At this point the accusation he got something wrong, never minding that he was actively trying to dispel the confusion about the very scene in which you're trying to say he supposedly got the dialogue wrong (a really egregious, if not ironical mistake), is just baseless and looks more like arguing for arguing's sake to me.

The writer also doesn't know everything since he claimed Goku couldn't destroy the universe, despite the narrator saying in the Battle of Gods Saga that both Beerus and Goku were hitting with the force to destroy the universe. When confronted with this, he revised his statement to, 'Goku wouldn't destroy the universe' instead of can't.

I don't know about the occasion you're referring to; then again, unless he got wrong the fact that the fight between "Beerus and Goku would eventually destroy the universe" there'd virtually be no particularly controversial material here, also, as in a discrepancy between the narrator and the writer.

Goku has never been stated to be able to destroy (at least in the sense of "busting" it was probably intended back there) the universe through his own power, or at least not yet. So even this subtle implication that Toshio could be horribly uninformed on the most basic stuff, other than being fairly gratuitous, doesn't really hold well.
Never mind that the guy uses Google translator, and I wouldn't be surprised if some undertones like "woulda", "shoulda" and "coulda" could amount to pretty subtle differences when decoding and re-encoding the questions he gets from fans. His statement on Tien, however, at the very least looked pretty clear-cut when he said he "thought Tien was stronger" and that he "realized that Roshi was empowered by magic".[/quote]

I literally gave an example of one of the writers going against the narrative and character statements and they backtracked. Meaning that they're not reliable. If you were talking about the person who actually wrote the episode, this would be a different matter.

My problem is that Goku clearly said 'this is Roshi's power when he wasn't holding back', yet fans keep reducing it to Roshi being beefed on magic since he floored Tien.

[LowRyder2005]

I literally gave an example of one of the writers going against the narrative and character statements and they backtracked. Meaning that they're not reliable. If you were talking about the person who actually wrote the episode, this would be a different matter.

My problem is that Goku clearly said 'this is Roshi's power when he wasn't holding back', yet fans keep reducing it to Roshi being beefed on magic since he floored Tien.

I'll make yet another redux version of my post:

1. Goku hasn't shown the capability of destroying the universe by himself. So no, it hardly counts at catching a writer red-handed when contradicting the source material. This is far from a testament of unreliableness.

2. Even we you did caught the writer red-handed on proved unreliable on a different occasion, it wouldn't automatically mean we have to disregard his clarification before we ascertain if it did contradict something. Given we're starting off the very obvious premise Toshio, the writer, knew the scene because he was answering people's concerns about that exact scene, it sounds very improbable he answered having the scene in mind but forgetting the scene's very dialogue. It's not exactly arguing that it was a simple blunder, but more that the writer was completely oblivious and yet still bothered to answer the question.

3. On an unrelated note, writing something obviously wouldn't make you 100% blunder-proof when interrogated about it.

4. I suppose some part of my explanation about Goku's wasn't yet clear? Goku never said something that automatically translates into "Roshi isn't empowered by magic, this is all his power", which would make Goku's and Toshio's statement be at odds. The only implication of the scene - "this is Roshi's power when he's not holding back" - is that he was able to get a clear picture of Roshi's true strength by fighting him. This could be regardless of the effects of the magic, whatever these effects limited themselves to giving Roshi bukūjutsu or not. For instance, if Goku was able to understand that the magic increased the power of a normal human tenfold by comparing the ki of the students before and after the possession, he could've gotten a pretty clear mental picture of Roshi's true power just by knowing he was fighting all-out. And the explanation about Roshi's power increasing, like I said, at worst solves the headscratcher of the students apparently becoming stronger while Roshi wouldn't.

[blackbewhite2k7]

Joking aside, I think I can at least unironically say Roshi, if not the strongest human, is easily the best human fighter. Centuries of experience put to fantastic use.

[HeroR]

I literally gave an example of one of the writers going against the narrative and character statements and they backtracked. Meaning that they're not reliable. If you were talking about the person who actually wrote the episode, this would be a different matter.

My problem is that Goku clearly said 'this is Roshi's power when he wasn't holding back', yet fans keep reducing it to Roshi being beefed on magic since he floored Tien.

I'll make yet another redux version of my post:

1. Goku hasn't shown the capability of destroying the universe by himself. So no, it hardly counts at catching a writer red-handed when contradicting the source material. This is far from a testament of unreliableness.

2. Even we you did caught the writer red-handed on proved unreliable on a different occasion, it wouldn't automatically mean we have to disregard his clarification before we ascertain if it did contradict something. Given we're starting off the very obvious premise Toshio, the writer, knew the scene because he was answering people's concerns about that exact scene, it sounds very improbable he answered having the scene in mind but forgetting the scene's very dialogue. It's not exactly arguing that it was a simple blunder, but more that the writer was completely oblivious and yet still bothered to answer the question.

3. On an unrelated note, writing something obviously wouldn't make you 100% blunder-proof when interrogated about it.

4. I suppose some part of my explanation about Goku's wasn't yet clear? Goku never said something that automatically translates into "Roshi isn't empowered by magic, this is all his power", which would make Goku's and Toshio's statement be at odds. The only implication of the scene - "this is Roshi's power when he's not holding back" - is that he was able to get a clear picture of Roshi's true strength by fighting him. This could be regardless of the effects of the magic, whatever these effects limited themselves to giving Roshi bukūjutsu or not. For instance, if Goku was able to understand that the magic increased the power of a normal human tenfold by comparing the ki of the students before and after the possession, he could've gotten a pretty clear mental picture of Roshi's true power just by knowing he was fighting all-out. And the explanation about Roshi's power increasing, like I said, at worst solves the headscratcher of the students apparently becoming stronger while Roshi wouldn't.

The character and the narrator said that Goku and Beerus were hitting with the force to destroy the universe. Not that Goku was only destroying the universe with Beerus' help. So yes, he messed, which is why he backtracked from 'Goku can't destroy the universe unless he becomes a God of Destruction' to 'Goku wouldn't destroy the universe'. So the writer was wrong, plain and simple.

It is proof that asking one writer about someone that happened in Super doesn't override the episode since they can get stuff wrong. Does the writer on Twitter saying that Goku can't destroy the universe with becoming a God of Destruction invalidates the statements made in the show that Goku could since he was hitting with the force to destroy an universe? The same hold true for Episode 88. Goku never claimed that Roshi was enhanced by magic. He said this is Roshi not holding back and he has gotten much stronger. This is reconfirmed again in Episode 105 where Roshi talked about how he broke his previous limits. So Roshi flooring Tien and impressing Goku had nothing to do with magic making him stronger. Toshio is also unreliable since, as I have pointed out several times, he didn't write the episode in question.

Human error, but my point remains that Toshio isn't the end all, especially when he himself have backtracked from a statement he made when confronted with statements from the episode in question.

That really doesn't make sense since that would be like Goku calling Majin Vegeta 'Vegeta when he isn't holding back'. Which it isn't since Majin Vegeta is enhanced by magic and Goku tore Vegeta a new one for it. Tien implied the same thing when he said, 'even bewitched, it's still Master Roshi'. Neither implied that he was enhance since both of their statements were, 'even controlled, he's a monster'. If the writer really wanted to make this point you're writing, Goku would have said something like, 'even without this enhancement, you have become much stronger'.

[LowRyder2005]

The character and the narrator said that Goku and Beerus were hitting with the force to destroy the universe. Not that Goku was only destroying the universe with Beerus' help. So yes, he messed, which is why he backtracked from 'Goku can't destroy the universe unless he becomes a God of Destruction' to 'Goku wouldn't destroy the universe'. So the writer was wrong, plain and simple.

Does the writer on Twitter saying that Goku can't destroy the universe with becoming a God of Destruction invalidates the statements made in the show that Goku could since he was hitting with the force to destroy an universe? The same hold true for Episode 88. Goku never claimed that Roshi was enhanced by magic. He said this is Roshi not holding back and he has gotten much stronger. This is reconfirmed again in Episode 105 where Roshi talked about how he broke his previous limits. So Roshi flooring Tien and impressing Goku had nothing to do with magic making him stronger. Toshio is also unreliable since, as I have pointed out several times, he didn't write the episode in question.

Which is exactly what I said. Goku and Beerus fighting together can destroy the universe in some amount of unspecified time. Goku alone through his own power has never been said to be able to yet. There's literally no issue if he implied Goku couldn't/ Goku wouldn't destroy the universe because he didn't have enough power on his own power, even if he actually rectified it in "wouldn't" to probably avoid more rabid fans or even if Goku was promoted to God of Destruction on spot.

Besides, I'll remind you that "can't" and "wouldn't" are pretty fluid and can easily be interpreted as synonyms when pertaining to something happening or not. "I can't destroy the universe" can also mean some sort of "I can't destroy a universe (because there is some moral constriction that won't let me)" which would equate to "I wouldn't destroy the universe" [http://www.learnersdictionary.com/qa/co ... -and-would].

In more general terms, even if there were issues - and at the moment I don't see any - this wouldn't be enough to make you jump the gun on claiming Toshio's unreliable in general. I could say the same to you if you ever got something wrong and I corrected you, couldn't I? Wouldn't you probably say it's unfair and that you could be correct on something else?
I also have to stress that even the rest of your reasoning doesn't hold up in general and is full of arbitrary premises, like this sub-argument that "a writer of an episode can't get anything wrong about his episode": like I said, one can be unreliable even when interrogated on something he crafted himself. Here, if you want to prove that Toshio got something wrong, is just a matter of reasonably finding a clear contradiction. And there is no one (as a matter of fact, I think there should be less).

Lastly, Roshi getting stronger and being empowered by magic against Tien and Goku are not mutually exclusive alternatives. We all agree Roshi got stronger off-screen and that he trained.

Human error, but my point remains that Toshio isn't the end all, especially when he himself have backtracked from a statement he made when confronted with statements from the episode in question.[/spoiler]

Tien implied the same thing when he said, 'even bewitched, it's still Master Roshi'. Neither implied that he was enhance since both of their statements were, 'even controlled, he's a monster'. If the writer really wanted to make this point you're writing, Goku would have said something like, 'even without this enhancement, you have become much stronger'.

No, I'm afraid this is confirmation bias more than anything. Saying that Master Roshi "is still himself" could more simply mean he's still a proper fighter with all his techniques and fighting instincts, and that he would have expected him to be impaired or to lose his natural abilities by virtue of being a mindless zombie. It doesn't hold the intrinsic power-related clarification aspect you're aiming for.

And you still haven't answered my point: the students - who are humans and non-ki wielding fighters, so in the low tens - were almost assuredly stronger enough to force Tien to exert some effort [0:58; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE343eN8lcY]. Starting from the assumption it makes very little sense for Tien to drop his power more than necessary if can he still safely remove the possession seal with less fatigue at a higher ki level: hypothetically speaking, the young students could get to some 10% or 20% of Tien's power (or whatever level it's needed to force a fighter to put some minimum effort, regardless). In other words, it'd make them thousands of times stronger. And in that case, why wouldn't Master Roshi be powered-up when everyone else is? When he is in apparently in leagues with a base Goku who's flaring up his ki, so possibly not taking it too easy?

That really doesn't make sense since that would be like Goku calling Majin Vegeta 'Vegeta when he isn't holding back. Which it isn't since Majin Vegeta is enhanced by magic and Goku tore Vegeta a new one for it.

If Majin Vegeta was "Vegeta's full power + boost", and Goku factored out the boost by experience, yeah, he might've said that and there wouldn't have been a single problem if a writer later said Vegeta was "empowered by Babidi" and let us infer Goku simply deduced his power anyways.

It is proof that asking one writer about someone that happened in Super doesn't override the episode since they can get stuff wrong.

Which brings me to reiterate the concept there's no ground to claim, much less conclude, the writer got anything wrong and that we're supposed to ignore his elucidation on the scene. The writer's words actually only override your interpretation. By themselves they are completely innocuous: they do make the undertones of Goku's statements a little less direct and more cryptic, but they do not outright contradicting anything in the episode. Like I said, I also don't see how they wouldn't make the entirity of what happens there (Goku vs. Roshi and Tien vs. students) factually easier to swallow, which to me would only make them all the more welcomed.