Will Goku's new Form be a 50 times multiplier? Potential Spoilers

[GodVegetto91]

"Even when you don't expect him to, He still survives, Seriously? One hundredfold?!
The coolest survivor.
Even the God of Destruction appears puny!"

Wow! Mind blown!

It makes you wonder, WHY would they put all of that in the lyrics of the new opening song if it wasn't going to be true? They keep calling it a "Limit-Breaking" battle afterall.

So my next best guess is Goku either does a Kaioken x100 against Jiren later down the road and fails, or his new Transformation will have a 100 times multiplier.

[HeroR]

I hope it's not. Screw multipliers. I want real Limit Breaker, that just breaks all limits and gives max power.

What does that even means?

[VegettoEX]

Please don't be so literal with "hyaku-bai" in the lyrics actually pertaining to a specific number lurking in the back of the minds of writers as it relates to a transformation. Yes, it means "a hundred-fold" but it's pretty equivalent to a colloquial "man he's a million times stronger than before!" They say the same thing in "We Gotta Power"; their excitement level isn't literally a precise hundred times more than it was previously.

There is not always a secret truth buried somewhere for you to find.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Please don't be so literal with "hyaku-bai" in the lyrics actually pertaining to a specific number lurking in the back of the minds of writers as it relates to a transformation. Yes, it means "a hundred-fold" but it's pretty equivalent to a colloquial "man he's a million times stronger than before!" They say the same thing in "We Gotta Power"; their excitement level isn't literally a precise hundred times more than it was previously.

There is not always a secret truth buried somewhere for you to find.

That's something I find really annoying, it seems people just want to play detective all the time instead of sit back enjoy and let things unfold within the actual show. The fandom just seems to want every drip of information ASAP. When Super was first announced I was excited that we as fans get to discuss the show weekly but things have gotten so extreme now, it's deterring me.

[emperior]

The lyrics don't really mean much. Even Krillin told Gohan to get 100 times stronger together, and while Gohan probably really got that amount of times stronger by sitting his ass and meditating with Piccolo, Krillin didn't exactly get stronger since he battled Gohan.
As for the new form, I expect it to be 50 times stronger based from spoilers.

[Dai-Saiyajin]

I still think that the Kaio-ken on top of SSB multiplies only a fraction of it's power instead of the 100 %, I'm more inclined to think that it multiplies only about 10 % for each time because it won't make power scale inflate like hell and also it won't need the SSB to be extremely weak. The numbers will be like that:

Goku SSB - 3
Goku SSB KK2X - 3,6
Goku SSB KK10X - 6
Goku SSB KK20X - 9
Goku Limit Breaker - 12

Jiren - 11

[Nickolaidas]

Please don't be so literal with "hyaku-bai" in the lyrics actually pertaining to a specific number lurking in the back of the minds of writers as it relates to a transformation. Yes, it means "a hundred-fold" but it's pretty equivalent to a colloquial "man he's a million times stronger than before!" They say the same thing in "We Gotta Power"; their excitement level isn't literally a precise hundred times more than it was previously.

There is not always a secret truth buried somewhere for you to find.

That's something I find really annoying, it seems people just want to play detective all the time instead of sit back enjoy and let things unfold within the actual show. The fandom just seems to want every drip of information ASAP. When Super was first announced I was excited that we as fans get to discuss the show weekly but things have gotten so extreme now, it's deterring me.

I agree. I mean, it's fun to speculate what's going to happen with the story, but all these power multiplier/power level guesswork is just ... ugh.

Power levels were just a plot tool to make the readers think 'X guy is a badass', but the fans took it so literal it became retarded.

[GodVegetto91]

Unlike any other Opening preceding it, Limit Break X Survivor was made for this arc. We can assume it's lyrics were composed with it in mind. Really, this opening shouldn't be taken with the same grain of salt as other openings. Because
1- Unlike DBZ, Toei knows what will happen on it, so the opening doesn't have to be just random cool scenes that maybe have 0 relevance to the plot. 2- Unlike Chouzetsu Dynamic, it wasn't made to be an opening to the entire show.
It's an opening made for this arc, which Toei knows exactly how it'll go, from beginning to end. It stands to reason they'd sprinkle a few hints and foreshadowing on the song with that foresight already available, to hype it up.

Also, these exact phrases made in the lyrics just seem TOO specific to just be random phrases you know.. it seems they're really trying to hype us up by how over the top it all seemed.

[Lord Beerus]

I really don't want anything number related in battle powers thrown into Super. Especially with regards to transformations and their multipliers. The last thing we need is more meticulous number crunching from fans who live or die on how much validity a story has with who has the biggest number in a fight.

[GodVegetto91]

I really don't want anything number related in battle powers thrown into Super. Especially with regards to transformations and their multipliers. The last thing we need is more meticulous number crunching from fans who live or die on how much validity a story has with who has the biggest number in a fight.

Why not? Numbers represent ORDER while no numbers represents disorder and chaos, we can't have that. Otherwise we will never know where the characters stand in relation to eachother. I don't see how anyone could be opposed to something that gives order to the show. Gotta have rules right? Otherwise powerlevels will be all over the place.

Also, just because some people (apparently) don't like numbers, doesn't mean the writers should ruin it for fans who actually do like numbers. It's a win-win situation. The powerlevel enthousiasts will be happy, and the ones who don't care about it, don't care about it.

Numbers = order
No numbers = disorder.

Just because characters in the namek arc had the ability to hide their powerlevel from the scouters to fool their opponents later on doesn't make them any less important. We don't neccesarily need "power levels" but at least we do need multipliers for new transformations. There is nothing wrong about it, and on the contrary, everything right about it. Multipliers are essential.

[VegettoEX]

It's not win-win: I would dislike it if they started over-explaining these fights by issuing direct comparisons and values. I think it's reductive story-telling and I have negative interest in it. I actively dislike each portion of the series that already has this, and I'm grateful how much of the series doesn't have it, instead being relegated to guidebooks and supplemental fan discussions.

Multipliers are not essential. They are a niche portion of the overall story that a small, vocal minority of primarily-western fans have decided for themselves take some undue importance over everything else.

[GodVegetto91]

It's not win-win: I would dislike it if they started over-explaining these fights by issuing direct comparisons and values. I think it's reductive story-telling and I have negative interest in it. I actively dislike each portion of the series that already has this, and I'm grateful how much of the series doesn't have it, instead being relegated to guidebooks and supplemental fan discussions.

Multipliers are not essential. They are a niche portion of the overall story that a small, vocal minority of primarily-western fans have decided for themselves take some undue importance over everything else.

Like i already said, many fans prefer and actively desire numbers. It's only logical in a show that's all about powerups and what not, (especially a show that has already used numbers before). If you already started something then you must resume it. (That's what i've always been taught). Powerlevel enthousiasts won't stop waiting until they have what they want. If they reintroduced numbers than the PL enthousiasts (which makes up a way larger portion than one may think) will be very happy and got their appetite served. Meanwhile the ones who never cared about it have nothing to lose and can just go on with whatever reasons they like the show for. Nothing bad happens to them, and only good things for the PL community.

We are at core all mathematical beings and either consciously, or unconsciously we all crave for numbers wether we are aware of it or not. If i want to watch something for fun and for laughs, i rather watch family guy or south park, that stuff always cracks me up. Dragon ball is not the show for me to get a laugh out of (well maybe for the awesome charisma of Goku Black and Perfect Cell). But you get my point.

For people like me, Numbers are an absolute must. And our hunger must be satisfied. We can't have questions unanswered, we would be like dogs who never got their foods. It would haunt us for the rest of our lives.

[Shinda Forever]

There are some reasons why i believe this could turn out to be the case. For starters, this seems to be the namek arc all over again, it was the same against Freeza back then: 1. Goku does 20x kaioken (to no effect) 2. Goku does Spirit Bomb (also to no effect) 3. Goku gets a new Transformation that's strong enough to allow him to fight on par with his enemy. And if that wasn't enough, 4. He's shirtless! (Also the same as when he was up against Freeza on namek )

If Goku's SSJ Blue Kaioken times 20 really isn't enough to do any notable damage on Jiren, then it's at the very least safe to assume this new Transformation is going to be more than 20 times stronger than SSJ Blue, and with that in mind, it seems very likely (if this is just like the namek arc all over again) that this new Form (just like Super Saiyan!) will have a 50 times multiplier aswell!


Goku's new limit breaking Form — 50 times stronger than SSJ Blue!

What do you guys think?

I think you are absolutely right. Furthermore Toshio also said the pride troopers are like the ginyu force, therefore, Jiren=Frieza; Toppo= Captain Ginyu; Dyspo= Bhurta

[Legion]

The translation about that opening is not completely accurate anyway. But is just an opening.

About the multipliers, i think that Toriyama does not care. Remember that even kkx20 is another toei thing.

[Lord Beerus]

Power level numbers and multipliers aren't essential in the slightest. The story wouldn't have been any more or less clearer if we knew that SSJ provided a 50 times boost in strength. You can already tell from how SSJ Goku batters Freeza, even after Freeza powers up to 100%, that Goku is still much stronger than Freeza. No guidebook needs to tell more otherwise or reaffirm something to me. I could tell what was happening from the narrative was expressing the scenario of Goku and Freeza's fight developing without the use of "SSJ make Goku's base form X times stronger and is now Y times stronger than Freeza even if Freeza get Z times more more of a boost".

As you already mentioned, it's flat out acknowledged in-universe that relying on scouters, which provided calculated numeric battle powers, are worthless and pointless because of how well character can hide their true strength. And this acknowledged came in the very same arc that scouter were introduced in. I really think that's a strong hint from Toriyama on how much numbers and multipliers don't mean anything in the grand scheme of a fight. It's even more apparent with how scouters get blown up when a characters strength is off the scale (*insert rimshot*).

Numbers in Dragon Ball are incredibly arbitrary. I mean, Toriyama has even outright stated that felt that Super Saiyan was be a 10 times multiplier in strength and not a 50 times multiplier in strength when he introduced the form. It's really not the best option to live and die by any given figure because with Dragon Ball plays it fast and loose with characters growth in strength before, during and after any given battle, it can make the previously given number(s) pointless.

[Polyphase Avatron]

The lyrics already say "even Zen-oh sama will be blown away" and there's no hint of that happening (unless you interpret it as them being amazed by the fights). So I wouldn't take all of that too literally.

[Xeogran]

The lyrics already say "even Zen-oh sama will be blown away" and there's no hint of that happening (unless you interpret it as them being amazed by the fights).

Wait. You're telling me that some people actually interpret THAT literally?

[Polyphase Avatron]

The lyrics already say "even Zen-oh sama will be blown away" and there's no hint of that happening (unless you interpret it as them being amazed by the fights).

Wait. You're telling me that some people actually interpret THAT literally?

People will interpret anything literally...

[Legion]

The lyrics already say "even Zen-oh sama will be blown away" and there's no hint of that happening (unless you interpret it as them being amazed by the fights).

Wait. You're telling me that some people actually interpret THAT literally?

People will interpret anything literally...

Well, some people now really believe that the Gods are "puny" compared to Goku (even if that statement is not related to Goku), so don't be surprised.

[Angrist Hand]

DragonBall doesnt do multipliers anymore. I hope the story starts respecting power levels again tho, I like numbers. Either way it wouldnt make sense for Goku's new form to be a match for Beerus. From what we've been shown Beerus could win this tournament of Power by himself easily, and Goku nor Jiren can do that.