Kanious wrote:I think and hope that Jiren has god ki and this ultra instinct.
Maybe everyone wasn't surprised at all on Jiren because everyone somehow knew that he was the "boss"
He doesnt have god ki, everyone felt him after he charged up.
Stop! He does have God ki. Stop misleading people. They felt his "heat" that's very different from feeling his actual energy. This IS a God form. It even has a similair aura to both his SSJ God form and Beerus' Aura. Hell even Merged Zamasu's! There's no question about it. This form has God ki.
Well there really is no guarantee Ultra Instinct emits god ki, although it's probably safe to assume, there's nothing explicitly stating it. As for sensing god ki they haven't followed that rule in a long time. Many examples of mortals saying 'His power is unreal!' and things like that when Goku and Vegeta powering up to SSB. If they're going to discern 'pressure' from sensing power then they need to make it clearer, because otherwise it appears they have entirely forgotten the rule as they did with flying.
My headcanon for this is that being at a certain level of power and simply being around god ki so often (even if you haven't obtained it yourself) allows you to detect it, it would make some sense with people being around all these gods, but it would be better if they actually explained it for us. It kind of correlates with Vegeta learned to sense ki back in Saiyan saga just by being around people that could sense it.
Last edited by Zagacious on Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:19 pm, edited 4 times in total.
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Stop! He does have God ki. Stop misleading people. They felt his "heat" that's very different from feeling his actual energy. This IS a God form. It even has a similair aura to both his SSJ God form and Beerus' Aura. Hell even Merged Zamasu's! There's no question about it. This form has God ki.
We're talking about Jiren. And we know nothing about Goku's new form, so all it is is just assumptions right now.
Kanious wrote:I think and hope that Jiren has god ki and this ultra instinct.
Maybe everyone wasn't surprised at all on Jiren because everyone somehow knew that he was the "boss"
He doesnt have god ki, everyone felt him after he charged up.
Stop! He does have God ki. Stop misleading people. They felt his "heat" that's very different from feeling his actual energy. This IS a God form. It even has a similair aura to both his SSJ God form and Beerus' Aura. Hell even Merged Zamasu's! There's no question about it. This form has God ki.
There is no proof Jiren, who he was referring to, has God Ki. Its implied to me because hes so incredibly strong but its never outright stated.
Currently watching: My Hero Academia
Last watched: Akame Ga Kill, Hokuto No Ken, Hokuto No Ken 2, Hunter X Hunter
Quote if I were to Hakai someone: "Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru. Hakai!"
I'm think that Jiren may be just that fucking fast and have insane reflexes. I think Jiren may just be such a prodigy in battle that it seems as though he has Ultra Instinct form, but he really doesn't.
Further implication that Jiren may just have the natural ability to move that fast and be that powerful comes with Kaioshin's statement when Goku fights Jiren: "He's strong. Plan and simple." Not to mention it's already stated he's a powerful as a Hakaishin and that Toppo states if he were to fall in battle, Jiren would certainly win the torunament.
I don't believe there are any gimmicks concerning Jiren's strength or his abilities, I think, and to borrow the catchphrase from a well known wrestler, he's just that damn good.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Zagacious wrote:It seems like he has already mastered it, because the way he moves and reacts is just like how Goku is doing in his new form. It was also implied early on in the ToP when Jiren knew where those blocks were headed, the animation is kind of similar to how Goku is moving now. It also seems like the form is a lot more than just moving without thinking, it seems like it may be a being's maximum power being put out at all times.
Maybe the name is also implying by instinct that no power is ever held back, that the fighter is always at 100% power, at least when the form is mastered. The fact Whis knew about it also implies it's a form that anyone can potentially obtain. At first I thought Ultra Instinct was the first stage to entering being an actual god, but then one of the gods said it was difficult for even gods to obtain it, so that makes it a little more confusing.
It is a God Form, and it makes Goku an actual Deity. The point is, that these Gods on the sidelines are born as Gods (or at least the Kaioshins) while the Gods of Destruction have the official title/job of destroyer Gods. Goku was originally born as a mortal Saiyan. And spend pretty much his entire life as one, until he became an Artificial God in the Battle of Gods arc.
About Jiren having mastered this ability aswell, it seems very likely, and it certainly appears that way, judging by all his actions thus far, however, the only counter-argument to that is my reply above, all the Gods were surprised that a "mortal" could achieve this state, as if no one in this tournament could do it before, hence including Jiren in that category.
i wonder how people call Goku and Vegeta as deities. They are mortals. They have no role as gods yet, they have no POSITION/STATUS/ROLES to fulfill, they weren't appointed and aren't recognized as gods.
mute_proxy wrote:
He doesnt have god ki, everyone felt him after he charged up.
Stop! He does have God ki. Stop misleading people. They felt his "heat" that's very different from feeling his actual energy. This IS a God form. It even has a similair aura to both his SSJ God form and Beerus' Aura. Hell even Merged Zamasu's! There's no question about it. This form has God ki.
There is no proof Jiren, who he was referring to, has God Ki. Its implied to me because hes so incredibly strong but its never outright stated.
I don't think Jiren has Ultra Instinct at least not what's been shown anyway, however I do think he's just crazy fast and can predict movements at speeds we can barely fathom so he's probably just crazy fast in his reflexes.
He just seems focused. He's the kind that goes with the water is wet, the grass is green, and your transformation does not impress me. Besides the beast that he already is.
Lord Beerus wrote:I'm think that Jiren may be just that fucking fast and have insane reflexes. I think Jiren may just be such a prodigy in battle that it seems as though he has Ultra Instinct form, but he really doesn't.
Further implication that Jiren may just have the natural ability to move that fast and be that powerful comes with Kaioshin's statement when Goku fights Jiren: "He's strong. Plan and simple." Not to mention it's already stated he's a powerful as a Hakaishin and that Toppo states if he were to fall in battle, Jiren would certainly win the torunament.
I don't believe there are any gimmicks concerning Jiren's strength or his abilities, I think, and to borrow the catchphrase from a well known wrestler, he's just that damn good.
What do you think of the episode right before the ToP started where it showed Jiren dodging blocks by knowing where they were heading? It seemed kind of implied he has some sort of ability beyond just pure power, although it could mean nothing beyond just making him look mysterious and powerful. That is the main reason I'm suspicious that he may have it, but I agree it's more likely just how strong he is in 'base' form with no sort of boost or transformation, but it's still kind of makes you wonder if that early ep of ToP really meant anything
Lord Beerus wrote:I'm think that Jiren may be just that fucking fast and have insane reflexes. I think Jiren may just be such a prodigy in battle that it seems as though he has Ultra Instinct form, but he really doesn't.
Further implication that Jiren may just have the natural ability to move that fast and be that powerful comes with Kaioshin's statement when Goku fights Jiren: "He's strong. Plan and simple." Not to mention it's already stated he's a powerful as a Hakaishin and that Toppo states if he were to fall in battle, Jiren would certainly win the torunament.
I don't believe there are any gimmicks concerning Jiren's strength or his abilities, I think, and to borrow the catchphrase from a well known wrestler, he's just that damn good.
What do you think of the episode right before the ToP started where it showed Jiren dodging blocks by knowing where they were heading? It seemed kind of implied he has some sort of ability beyond just pure power, although it could mean nothing beyond just making him look mysterious and powerful. That is the main reason I'm suspicious that he may have it, but I agree it's more likely just how strong he is in 'base' form with no sort of boost or transformation, but it's still kind of makes you wonder if that early ep of ToP really meant anything
I think Jiren just had the awareness that the Katchin blocks wouldn't hit him. Or perhaps (and I think this is the likeliest case) Jiren was so confident in his strength and endurance that he thought that the Katchin blocks wouldn't harm even if they were to strike him.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Stop! He does have God ki. Stop misleading people. They felt his "heat" that's very different from feeling his actual energy. This IS a God form. It even has a similair aura to both his SSJ God form and Beerus' Aura. Hell even Merged Zamasu's! There's no question about it. This form has God ki.
There is no proof Jiren, who he was referring to, has God Ki. Its implied to me because hes so incredibly strong but its never outright stated.
He was refering to Goku, not Jiren. Read again.
Whoops. There is another post in another thread debating if Jiren has God Ki i think i mixed them up.
Currently watching: My Hero Academia
Last watched: Akame Ga Kill, Hokuto No Ken, Hokuto No Ken 2, Hunter X Hunter
Quote if I were to Hakai someone: "Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru. Hakai!"
Why not? Jiren and the Pride Troopers already have a close-knit association with Belmod. It would make sense for them to take the instructional combat philosophies of the Hakaishin and apply it to their own style; assuming their goal is to emulate those stronger than themselves. If this is so then no one has given confirmation on Jiren's understanding of the state of mind.
I agree with Upwiththeskies, if Jiren also has Ultra Instinct then there is no way that Belmoud would've been pulling his hair out at the thought that Goku had attained it, as it would have just put him in the same ball park as Jiren. He seemed to be starting to get genuinely worried after the mention of Ultra Instinct.
How I wish I could block these distractions when I am supposed to be studying...
Tugvow wrote:I agree with Upwiththeskies, if Jiren also has Ultra Instinct then there is no way that Belmoud would've been pulling his hair out at the thought that Goku had attained it, as it would have just put him in the same ball park as Jiren. He seemed to be starting to get genuinely worried after the mention of Ultra Instinct.
Even with Ultra Instinct though he's barely able to scratch Jiren, just barely keep up with him, and Belmod still seems worried by that. I think Belmod is just surprised anyone would be anywhere close to Jiren's level and that's what's surprising him. Jiren could have Ultra Instinct and Belmod would still be justified in worrying that someone else has attained it because he expected no one to be anywhere near Jiren's power.
Tugvow wrote:I agree with Upwiththeskies, if Jiren also has Ultra Instinct then there is no way that Belmoud would've been pulling his hair out at the thought that Goku had attained it, as it would have just put him in the same ball park as Jiren. He seemed to be starting to get genuinely worried after the mention of Ultra Instinct.
Even with Ultra Instinct though he's barely able to scratch Jiren, just barely keep up with him, and Belmod still seems worried by that. I think Belmod is just surprised anyone would be anywhere close to Jiren's level and that's what's surprising him. Jiren could have Ultra Instinct and Belmod would still be justified in worrying that someone else has attained it because he expected no one to be anywhere near Jiren's power.
You're also forgetting Goku is basically running on "E", he has basically no power left and the bit of power he does have was absorbed thru the genki dama. I'd imagine the fight would go an entirely different route if Goku was at max, as he was already evolving when fighting Jiren and who's to say he'd outclass him by the end of the tournament if they did keep fighting?
i think i mixed them up.
