Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by Asura » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:37 pm

Ziegander wrote:There is a MASSIVE amount of sexism and overt male chauvinism and even just general toxic masculinity in at least the American Dragon Ball fanbase, so much it's often appalling to read through youtube comments on Dragon Ball videos. Not saying there's a lot of it HERE, but I do think some of the less obvious characteristics of those issues tend to permeate the fanbase as a whole and seep into fans' thought patterns without them even noticing.

I am seeing a lot of "those bitches need to be put in their place" sentiments around here, or with the barest veneer of civility painted over them so as to try and sound less sexist, and I honestly think that those fans posting such things don't realize what they're saying or contributing to. There's a lot of people that don't see the hypocrisy in their illogical hate/prejudices against real life people, and that issue gets made even worse when talking about fictional characters since people can say some pretty nasty shit under the pretense of, "oh, we're talking about fictional characters, my attitude toward them doesn't matter!" In the sense that those attitudes won't impact the fictional characters or their world, yeah, I guess, but they do say a lot about those fans who happen to be real people with real attitudes who do interact with and have an impact on other real people in the real world.
:roll: Sorry but I'm rolling my eyes at this, especially at your uses of the words "overt male chauvinism" and "toxic masculinity". You call a woman a bitch and somehow it's all about "toxic masculinity" and "sexism". That's funny cause I don't remember anyone talking about sexism and "toxic femininity" when people call Vegeta a huge fucking dick and a dumb asshole when he acts like one. It seems as if you think the reason people are angry at Caulifla is because she's a woman, which has literally nothing to do with it. Arrogant characters like Caulifla and Vegeta need to be put in their place. What's dangling or not dangling in between their legs makes no difference when they're both dumb, cocky, arrogant idiots, and that's the exact reason why people would call Caulifla a bitch and say that she needs to be put in her place. Not because she's a woman, but because she's too full of herself.

Where were the social justice warriors when Vegeta was letting Cell absorb #18? Surely he needed to be put in his place after being so dumb and arrogant as to let Cell transform. In fact, people often regard it as one of the stupidest things Vegeta has ever done, and it showed how when you're that arrogant and that stupid, you need to be put in your place and Cell did exactly that.

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by Cabba » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:49 pm

Kataphrut wrote: Ok, I can understand criticism of Kale, there's a lot to unpack with her. Also notice how this thread has hardly been about her? Mostly it's been about Caulifla, just like the last few weeks were mostly about Ribrianne, and the criticism has either been for things other characters have gotten away with (see: too arrogant), or thrown under the unhelpful blanket of "annoying." Also included, criticism of their designs, usually for being too skinny, or too fat in Ribrianne's case. And the occasional gendered term like "bitch" thrown in just in case you weren't absolutely sure.

Just...think about how it might look to some people.
I think you are looking to much into it, people use the term bitch/cunt as the female equivalent for douche and asshole which gets thrown around a lot as well
Ribrienne was written to be a annoying character male or female or transvestite, what annoys the fans the most is how much screen time she gets shoved in when other more interesting characters could otherwise use it

Frankly the whole dats sexism comments feel as out of place here as actual sexist comments, keep that crap on tumblr or other such place where there is a platform to discuss such things

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:56 pm

Cabba wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote: Yes I dislike Kale because she is a woman who doesnt know her place...not her terrible motivation, lack of originality (Female Broly) and overall annoying personality.
What i dislike about Kale is that she was introduced as an amateur with very little battle experience and all of sudden with some tantrum fit she exchnages blows with SSB
Its very bad written, if they wanted her to be of certain level, they should have introduced her as a seasoned LSS not some crybaby with inexplicable powers to servce as fan service for Broly who wasnt that powerful to begin with outside fanmade content.

and ribrienne is annoying as hell, if she was a dude it would have been just as bad
Sorry, that "if she was a dude" escape clause doesn't fly here, because Ribrianne wouldn't work as a male character. Her whole character is tied to her gender: she's a "magical girl". She fights with femininity, that's her thing. The difference is, she turns fat when she transforms, which is atypical of magical girl characters. You could unpack whether it's right to make a joke about the idea of her being chubby, but plenty of people have missed the joke entirely and just hate that she's fat.

Actually scratch that, you know who male Ribrianne is? Toppo. Toppo is totally a male version of her because he's from her parallel universe. Like her, he leads a team of genre heroes, is dorkily obsessed with a single concept and is extraordinarily powerful despite looking like he needs to lay off the cheeseburgers. And he doesn't get nearly the amount of flack she does. The worst he gets is people who occasional say the constant "justice" talk is annoying. But nowhere near as much as people who complain about Ribrianne's "love" talk and almost no one calls him ugly.

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by Asura » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:04 pm

Kataphrut wrote:
Cabba wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote: Yes I dislike Kale because she is a woman who doesnt know her place...not her terrible motivation, lack of originality (Female Broly) and overall annoying personality.
What i dislike about Kale is that she was introduced as an amateur with very little battle experience and all of sudden with some tantrum fit she exchnages blows with SSB
Its very bad written, if they wanted her to be of certain level, they should have introduced her as a seasoned LSS not some crybaby with inexplicable powers to servce as fan service for Broly who wasnt that powerful to begin with outside fanmade content.

and ribrienne is annoying as hell, if she was a dude it would have been just as bad
Sorry, that "if she was a dude" escape clause doesn't fly here, because Ribrianne wouldn't work as a male character. Her whole character is tied to her gender: she's a "magical girl". She fights with femininity, that's her thing. The difference is, she turns fat when she transforms, which is atypical of magical girl characters. You could unpack whether it's right to make a joke about the idea of her being chubby, but plenty of people have missed the joke entirely and just hate that she's fat.

Actually scratch that, you know who male Ribrianne is? Toppo. Toppo is totally a male version of her because he's from her parallel universe. Like her, he leads a team of genre heroes, is dorkily obsessed with a single concept and is extraordinarily powerful despite looking like he needs to lay off the cheeseburgers. And he doesn't get nearly the amount of flack she does. The worst he gets is people who occasional say the constant "justice" talk is annoying. But nowhere near as much as people who complain about Ribrianne's "love" talk and almost no one calls him ugly.
Toppo is not the same as Ribrianne. Toppo isn't annoying, fighting for justice actually makes sense whereas fighting with the power of love doesn't and is just a gag. Ribrianne has an annoying and obnoxious personality, whereas Toppo is more restrained. Toppo also wasn't in almost every single episode of the damn tournament since he was introduced, unlike Ribrianne. Toppo is also relevant strength-wise because he's at least as strong as SSB, where Ribrianne was getting bodied by a base Vegeta. She's like an annoying fly that keeps popping up with her annoying and nonsensical gimmick. If she was actually at SSB level she wouldn't be as bad, but since she's obnoxious, weak, always in your face, ugly fat design, and constantly repeating the same gag over and over and over again (because there's literally nothing else to her character, unlike Toppo who has more going for him then just shouting "JUSTICE!" over and over again with the whole becoming a GoD thing, his relationship with Jiren, and his grudge with Goku) then she's just going to be a character that most people dislike.
Last edited by Asura on Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by Cabba » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:05 pm

HeroR wrote: Goku still used it and even fought in it. And Vegeta became stronger because of a rage boost, not the Super Saiyan form itself and it was temporary to boot. And Goku didn't even used Super Saiyan 3 against Gohan and if he did, it would be superior to Ultimate Gohan since it's a stronger form. Super Saiyan 3 can serve the same purpose as Super Saiyan 2 if Goku wanted.

Also, Toriyama called both Super Saiyan 2 and 3 variation of Super Saiyan.
You don't like the form, which is fine, but don't overblow myths about it.
Oh but i do, i very much do! SS3 was one of my most loved transformations, its also one of the best looking of all time (in Z and movies) too bad DBS doesnt have enough budget to make it look good, i just hate how nerfed it is for plot reasons and they never bothered fixing the nerfing, if they are gonna make SS3 relevant they first need to fix the nerfing
You asked for a a example where SS2 performed better than SS3 and i gave you one. It also performed better in Black vs SS2 Vegeta

GoKu SS3 might very well been slightly better than SS2 against Gohan but the power growth at his current level wouldn't justify the tremendous expenditure in energy. Going SSG or even Blue makes more sense if current level Goku at SS2 is not enough same reason why bolded cant happen unless they fix the nerf/flaw SS3 has
Cabba wrote: You are aware you just described Saiyan Saga Gohan?

And Kale is basically the Hulk. A lot of raw power and little battle experience.
I do! This is the reason why i NEVER liked Gohan as a character, he never grew on me, i always felt he got power boosts handed to him to keep him relevant without any work put behind the scenes
Having said that the closest Gohan comes to Kale power levels of BS is Mystic unlock which at least had some develepement behind it and it wasnt as huge a jump as a amateur suddenly reaching SSB tier power

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by Cabba » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:18 pm

Kataphrut wrote: Sorry, that "if she was a dude" escape clause doesn't fly here, because Ribrianne wouldn't work as a male character. Her whole character is tied to her gender: she's a "magical girl". She fights with femininity, that's her thing. The difference is, she turns fat when she transforms, which is atypical of magical girl characters. You could unpack whether it's right to make a joke about the idea of her being chubby, but plenty of people have missed the joke entirely and just hate that she's fat.

Actually scratch that, you know who male Ribrianne is? Toppo. Toppo is totally a male version of her because he's from her parallel universe. Like her, he leads a team of genre heroes, is dorkily obsessed with a single concept and is extraordinarily powerful despite looking like he needs to lay off the cheeseburgers. And he doesn't get nearly the amount of flack she does. The worst he gets is people who occasional say the constant "justice" talk is annoying. But nowhere near as much as people who complain about Ribrianne's "love" talk and almost no one calls him ugly.
Toppo justice this justice that shit was annoying when introduced, and the justice will prevail gimmick dypo and toppo spouted, if he did that 100% of the time like ribireenne does and he got as much screen time as she did shoved in our faces and was as weak as she is, then i would hate toppo as well and i guarantee he would get a ton of hate. Also toppo doesnt try to pretend like he is some irresistible stud.

There has to be a balance, a character can have quirks and gimmicks. But when the gimmicks become 90% scratch that 100% of the character like ribrienne then it gets old very fast especially when said character gets a lot of screen time
I find it very annoying how she wasnt dealt with already, same way how i find annoying how seemingly frost would escape SSB vegeta, annoying not powerful characters should be ringed out or at least be given little screen time that other more interesting characters could use, otherwise it gets obnoxious. Toppo was only overtly justice in the exhibition tournament, in the ToP he even went as far as telling Dyspo that the Justice BS doesn't matter here it only matters who survives, that character development i liked a lot. He is nowhere near as obnoxious and annoying as ribrienne is with her constant love moves, i got so much satisfaction when she rolled like a bag of potatoes after Goku SSB kicked her

And her looks are very.. well the opposite of eye candy so it doesn't help her case either, lets not pretend looks dont matter. I wouldn't want Goku or Vegeta to be a fat piece of lard with teletubie faces, i like them fit and sexy. Same way Botamo looks bad to me and i couldnt wait for him to get ringed out or Magetta. There are some characters people just dont like and it has nothing to do with some hidden sjw agenda
Last edited by Cabba on Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:22 pm

Cabba wrote:
HeroR wrote: Goku still used it and even fought in it. And Vegeta became stronger because of a rage boost, not the Super Saiyan form itself and it was temporary to boot. And Goku didn't even used Super Saiyan 3 against Gohan and if he did, it would be superior to Ultimate Gohan since it's a stronger form. Super Saiyan 3 can serve the same purpose as Super Saiyan 2 if Goku wanted.

Also, Toriyama called both Super Saiyan 2 and 3 variation of Super Saiyan.
You don't like the form, which is fine, but don't overblow myths about it.
Oh but i do, i very much do! SS3 was one of my most loved transformations, its also one of the best looking of all time (in Z and movies) too bad DBS doesnt have enough budget to make it look good, i just hate how nerfed it is for plot reasons and they never bothered fixing the nerfing, if they are gonna make SS3 relevant they first need to fix the nerfing
You asked for a a example where SS2 performed better than SS3 and i gave you one. It also performed better in Black vs SS2 Vegeta

GoKu SS3 might very well been slightly better than SS2 against Gohan but the power growth at his current level wouldn't justify the tremendous expenditure in energy. Going SSG or even Blue makes more sense if current level Goku at SS2 is not enough same reason why bolded cant happen unless they fix the nerf/flaw SS3 has
Cabba wrote: You are aware you just described Saiyan Saga Gohan?

And Kale is basically the Hulk. A lot of raw power and little battle experience.
I do! This is the reason why i NEVER liked Gohan as a character, he never grew on me, i always felt he got power boosts handed to him to keep him relevant without any work put behind the scenes
Having said that the closest Gohan comes to Kale power levels of BS is Mystic unlock which at least had some develepement behind it and it wasnt as huge a jump as a amateur suddenly reaching SSB tier power
Super's animation have nothing to do with budget. And it wasn't 'nerf'. The enemies Goku fights got stronger. And Vegeta never fights Black as any golden Super Saiyan in the anime and Vegeta doesn't even have Super Saiyan 3. Your one example was also an outlier that everyone noted.

Are we assuming that Super Saiyan 3 drains more energy than the bod forms? And again, you're using nerf wrong.

Gohan did earn Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 since he went through intense training for them. Also, Ultimate is worse than Kale's form. Gohan got it by literally sitting on his ass for 24 hours and surpassed everyone after he willful slacked off for seven years. While Kale got a giant boost with Super Saiyan Berserk, she couldn't control the form and her lack of experience hampers her.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:38 pm

Asura wrote:
Kataphrut wrote:
Cabba wrote: What i dislike about Kale is that she was introduced as an amateur with very little battle experience and all of sudden with some tantrum fit she exchnages blows with SSB
Its very bad written, if they wanted her to be of certain level, they should have introduced her as a seasoned LSS not some crybaby with inexplicable powers to servce as fan service for Broly who wasnt that powerful to begin with outside fanmade content.

and ribrienne is annoying as hell, if she was a dude it would have been just as bad
Sorry, that "if she was a dude" escape clause doesn't fly here, because Ribrianne wouldn't work as a male character. Her whole character is tied to her gender: she's a "magical girl". She fights with femininity, that's her thing. The difference is, she turns fat when she transforms, which is atypical of magical girl characters. You could unpack whether it's right to make a joke about the idea of her being chubby, but plenty of people have missed the joke entirely and just hate that she's fat.

Actually scratch that, you know who male Ribrianne is? Toppo. Toppo is totally a male version of her because he's from her parallel universe. Like her, he leads a team of genre heroes, is dorkily obsessed with a single concept and is extraordinarily powerful despite looking like he needs to lay off the cheeseburgers. And he doesn't get nearly the amount of flack she does. The worst he gets is people who occasional say the constant "justice" talk is annoying. But nowhere near as much as people who complain about Ribrianne's "love" talk and almost no one calls him ugly.
Toppo is not the same as Ribrianne. Toppo isn't annoying, fighting for justice actually makes sense whereas fighting with the power of love doesn't and is just a gag. Ribrianne has an annoying and obnoxious personality, whereas Toppo is more restrained. Toppo also wasn't in almost every single episode of the damn tournament since he was introduced, unlike Ribrianne. Toppo is also relevant strength-wise because he's at least as strong as SSB, where Ribrianne was getting bodied by a base Vegeta. She's like an annoying fly that keeps popping up with her annoying and nonsensical gimmick. If she was actually at SSB level she wouldn't be as bad, but since she's obnoxious, weak, always in your face, ugly fat design, and constantly repeating the same gag over and over and over again (because there's literally nothing else to her character, unlike Toppo who has more going for him then just shouting "JUSTICE!" over and over again with the whole becoming a GoD thing, his relationship with Jiren, and his grudge with Goku) then she's just going to be a character that most people dislike.
Still seems odd that some spend allot of time Kataphrut my friend complaining about 1 character while they are still in development of their origin story are they not?! :think:

It seems Rather then give her time to develop which toei is doing some seem quick in throwing her out fast just cause she has not met some pre-determine standard that seems some fans have labeled to her so very early on. By all time accounts at most she has had the equivalent of 2 1/2 episodes or less to develop while Toppo has had 3 to 4 times that much so far, hardly the over use of time many say she has had.

But also Fans like me see the pattern that Toei is doing and it is classic Magical Girl/Sailor Moon Journey to power and self style. It is not brass and forward as some traditional dragon ball characters are, but that is what makes it so unique and we see each moment on the steps of her development. This desire to label her as nothing is overly simple and ignores basic storytelling that takes time to develop, her screentime what little it has been has been a stepping latter in every right direction to this development. Many don't understand this style but that is ok, but just cause you don't get it does not mean it is not worth it happening.

Like I keep saying, the over focus on her to be thrown down seem petty in many cases, when a character is on I don't really care for I just don't care as much what happens and wait until the next moment comes. She is just 1 new character of a major cast, it is easy to gloss past her and let her be for those of us that like her, continuing the point some don't want to see any of her is unrealistic and have to accept in life you will not get 100% of what you want to see, you have to learn to watch parts that are not your cup of tea, for now.

Also the term she is weak is Beyond Incorrect and if one Like Me that Focuses on her and Breaks down her Resume So Far and honestly gives on Honest Account of Each fight and why each one happen they way they had you find a more Bigger Picture of a Stronger Fighter that had a moment of lost confidence back in Episode 111.

One should go to both links down below to see my Breakdowns in the order they are, their you will see how determing Ribrianne as weak is a gross understament by many accounts and is sad that many seem to gloss over what she has shown already;

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=40110&start=200#p1396800

viewtopic.php?p=1396036#p1395739

Each fan has their Favorites and each one of us takes our Pride in Taking down chronological notes and points on who they are and what they can do. I am A Ribrianne fan and proud of that and I take down more closer notes then many here, so when I give my Reasoning for these observations above, due note that they are the work of much calculations, observation and watching of the episodes and moments very closely. I don't put down anything lightly, but I do put down what I find as the hard facts.

In the end Ribrianne, Caulifla, Kale or any other character you are not found of you are just going to have to accept they are going to be here for a good time to come, one will not get all they want. Maybe it is best to like I have said to many over the years and it works well, is to relax, open your mind to new concepts and characters and let the story flow the way it is intended too. You find much more enjoyment out of your media. ;)

I honestly really don't care much anymore about Negatives on the Girls, but will debate when I feel it is needed. We are in a forum speaking to a select few fans as part of a wider world of Fans and opinions, many more positive then we see around. The Girls will be her for sometime to come.
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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by Cabba » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:49 pm

HeroR wrote: Super's animation have nothing to do with budget. And it wasn't 'nerf'. The enemies Goku fights got stronger. And Vegeta never fights Black as any golden Super Saiyan in the anime and Vegeta doesn't even have Super Saiyan 3. Your one example was also an outlier that everyone noted.
If it doesn't have anything to do with budget then why cant they dedicate more man hours to make SS3 look better? if money is not the reason then what is?
It was a nerf in the Majin Saga that never got fixed since then, they introduced SS3 as a transformation thats only practical if you are dead and in the other word. It was nerfed as a plot element. A transformation that consumes huge amounts of energy and doesn't last very long. As long as SS3 has that nerf, then its not a practical transformation to use having SSG and SSB which are far stronger and consume less stamina.

So? You asked for examples and i provided examples. One when Vegeta SS2 surpasses goku against beerus and when Vegeta SS2 rains down on Black. Akira said SS2 and 3 were just variation of SS anyways, and honestly thats what makes the most sense in terms of practicality and efficiency
Are we assuming that Super Saiyan 3 drains more energy than the bod forms? And again, you're using nerf wrong.
Yes! If SS3 is unchanged from Majin saga then it drains more energy than SSG and Blue or SSG at the least
Nerf might not be 100% accurate but is the best word i can think of to describe SS3. Its a very powerful transformation that got the weakness/limitation of time and power consumption. That i call a nerf of an otherwise very powerful transformation
Gohan did earn Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 since he went through intense training for them. Also, Ultimate is worse than Kale's form. Gohan got it by literally sitting on his ass for 24 hours and surpassed everyone after he willful slacked off for seven years. While Kale got a giant boost with Super Saiyan Berserk, she couldn't control the form and her lack of experience hampers her.

I always called bs on that, it was only for the passing of the torch moment that they gift gohan with SS2, from day one the intention of Goku was for Gohan to become stronger than him, he did not have the motivation be the strongest anymore which i disliked how out of character it was

Dont get me wrong, I'm with you Ultimate/mystic is such bs! i just said is not as bad as kale for two reasons
1. The power jump isn't as huge, Gohan goes from SS2 tier to somewhere above SS3 but not that far ahead. While Kale went from not even SS1 to SSB
2. Gohan had to sit on his ass for 24 hours (still terrible) vs Kale had to cry for a few seconds

The last boost Gohan received was also bs to keep him relevant, not even 24 hs and he suddenly pushes back SSB. Should have stayed at SS2 tier goku which is already a lot for a day of training but would make much more sense. though well see if Gohan really is that powerful now or it was just scene with no meaning behind it like Krillin vs SSB goku

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by Totamo » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:30 pm

HeroR wrote:
Totamo wrote:
This isn't the case with the girls. They have been made the hope of their universe and there is no really real reason. What did they do to deserve that? Unlock a form that Cabba did after his planet was threatened and Vegeta beat the crap out of him? See, cabba was never made important after learning super saiyan for the first time, it wasn't a big deal. he didn't accomplish anything with it, he wasn't made the hope of his universe because of it. He was not important. Thus he offended very little people. There weren't videos made about how he ruined super saiyan or how he is a gary stu. Nothing really happened. but these ladies, they have been and thats the problem.



Oh and one is a broly reference and the other is Goku without the things that keep him grounded......that may be the biggest reason now that i think about it.
Cabba put his trust in them because of how Cali grown and Kale had a Super Saiyan form that tanked a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan's blast. That isn't rocket science, especially since their ace is gone.

And how is Cali a female Goku? This gets thrown around like a fact when the only things they have in common is that they loved to fight and are challenge seekers, which are common Saiyan traits. And Goku isn't exactly grounded either since he told all the gods to came at him and he will beat their best fighters. Also, only Cabba made them the "hope of their universe". Champa put his trust in Cabba after Hit got ring out and asked Cabba to find more Saiyans. Cabba was even called U6's hope by his old teacher, so Cabba had the most support to being U6's best hope after Hit. So it isn't like Kale and Cali being "hope of their universe" was pushed when only one person said it.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Super Saiyan 2 is officially a 200x multiplier of a Saiyan base form.
Your math is off. SSJ2 is twice the power of a Super Saiyan, which is 50 times stronger than a base form.

50 times 2 is 100, not 200. A nitpick I wouldn't normally bother making, but you're doing maths here. That should be corrected.
Yeah, my mistake. I am used to scaling Super Saiyan 2 from Super Saiyan, making it a 2x multiplier.
1. Kale tanking a super saiyan blue blast isnt really special since Krillin beam struggled with it and you know it. true he may have been holding back but that scene right there showed that Goku can make that form as weak as he wants to. Its nothing special and I doubt it will actually matter in the long run.

It matters not what we are told, but we are shown and if you will sit there and tell me that these 2 saiyans were not the main focus for U6 of this tournament, then we are not watching the same show.

2. Cali did not grow into these forms, she got one on her first try and the other by accident. Thats not growth.

3.What Champa tell Cabba to do after Hit was knocked out, run. He did not tell him to fight because he had no faith he could. and even we are told that Cabba is the strongest which again did not make him important or relevant to the story what we are shown is that its all about the girls and it will come down to them for U6.

That is the hope of the universe. No one has to say it for us to know it, just like no one has to say Vegeta will lose if he fights Jiren.

4. Goku paid for that crack. Goku has also given respect to fighters that are strong or best him. Caulifla has done no such thing and has constantly look down on everyone including U11.

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by SansrivaaL » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:37 pm

HeroR wrote:
SansrivaaL wrote:Yeah despite Beerus later coming off as an asshole which is why I want Goku or Vegeta to lay the smackdown on him one of these days, he wasnt an asshole who overhypes himself when he first showed up, he was actually calm and sort of graceful, Goku was the one mocking him when he said should he powerdown to 2 for him, and to top that Beerus is the GoD, its not that the title gives him the leeway to act like an asshole but he has the power to back it up, Cauli does not, she’s just a little brat still learning but she overhypes herself to something she clearly is not, Anyways it seems Vegeta isnt the only deluded character in that ring anymore, Cauli surpassed him, that little girl needs some heavy reality check on where she stands, que Freea quick!
In the retelling, Beerus was an asshole, especially to Vegeta, who threw his title in everyone faces. In many ways, he wasn’t that different from Saiyan Saga Vegeta.

Cali can only surpassed Vegeta if she decides to go after Jiren. And I remember when fans wanted the Pride Troopers to teach Cali a lesson when she called them wimps and she and Kale ended up knocked out five of them.
A different kind of asshole like I said he wasnt an asshole that overhypes himself, and he had that elegant way of talking and handling things, he was destroying planets because its his job, its not exactly Cauli’s job to suck her own shit is it?

You see thats another reason why I hate how they’ve been handling her, Vegeta despite being like that or worst at least gets his deserved humiliating slap to reality, Cauli has not and has gotten way too much love like their baby handling her or something, they are giving her almost everything without consequences.

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:40 pm

Totamo wrote: 1. Kale tanking a super saiyan blue blast isnt really special since Krillin beam struggled with it and you know it. true he may have been holding back but that scene right there showed that Goku can make that form as weak as he wants to. Its nothing special and I doubt it will actually matter in the long run.

It matters not what we are told, but we are shown and if you will sit there and tell me that these 2 saiyans were not the main focus for U6 of this tournament, then we are not watching the same show.

2. Cali did not grow into these forms, she got one on her first try and the other by accident. Thats not growth.

3.What Champa tell Cabba to do after Hit was knocked out, run. He did not tell him to fight because he had no faith he could. and even we are told that Cabba is the strongest which again did not make him important or relevant to the story what we are shown is that its all about the girls and it will come down to them for U6.

That is the hope of the universe. No one has to say it for us to know it, just like no one has to say Vegeta will lose if he fights Jiren.

4. Goku paid for that crack. Goku has also given respect to fighters that are strong or best him. Caulifla has done no such thing and has constantly look down on everyone including U11.
Except we know Goku was holding back since everyone said Krillin stood absolutely no chance. Against Kale, he had less reason to it that far down compared to Krillin, especially when he could have used his lower forms.

She got Super Saiyan 2 by accident, not Super Saiyan. She grown into it when Goku showed her how to do it.

In the previous episode, Cabba said that he was sure Cabba and the others could hold things, showing that he put Cabba in front. He never really acknowledge the other members. Cabba overall was shown to be more important than the the girl Saiyans since Cabba put his trust in him to recruit people and put him in front when he talked about how Cabba and the others may do something. And again, only Cabba called the girls the hope of the universe. Champa haven't even acknowledged their existence. Btw, when was Cabba ever called the strongest?

Goku some times pays and some times he doesn't. Cali has given respect to Cabba and even Goku once they showed how stronger they are. So "she has done no such thing and has constantly look down on everyone" is factually untrue.
SansrivaaL wrote: A different kind of asshole like I said he wasnt an asshole that overhypes himself, and he had that elegant way of talking and handling things, he was destroying planets because its his job, its not exactly Cauli’s job to suck her own shit is it?

You see thats another reason why I hate how they’ve been handling her, Vegeta despite being like that or worst at least gets his deserved humiliating slap to reality, Cauli has not and has gotten way too much love like their baby handling her or something, they are giving her almost everything without consequences.
An asshole is an asshole if you asked me and trying to destroy a planet over pudding anyway is far worse than 'overhyping themselves'. At least one doesn't led to genocide. Even the Kais pointed that Beerus' destruction wasn't justified since he was so petty and this is all confirmed by U7's low mortal rating. So no, "he was destroying planets because its his job" really doesn't work since Beerus wasn't even doing his job well. And Beerus "suck his own shit is it" by pointed out that he's a god, you're mortal, do what I say or I will destroy you. Which again, is worse than someone having a small ego since one is threatening murder or erasing in this case.

Beerus did far worse shit and got away with it and people ate his shit up too.

It seems you're okay with Beerus because he can back his BS, which just makes him worse in my eyes since Cali may come off as a cocky, self-center brat, but Beerus come off as a malicious spoiled brat bully.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by Li'l Lemmy » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:56 pm

CJStriker_CBR wrote:
Asura wrote:
Kataphrut wrote:
Sorry, that "if she was a dude" escape clause doesn't fly here, because Ribrianne wouldn't work as a male character. Her whole character is tied to her gender: she's a "magical girl". She fights with femininity, that's her thing. The difference is, she turns fat when she transforms, which is atypical of magical girl characters. You could unpack whether it's right to make a joke about the idea of her being chubby, but plenty of people have missed the joke entirely and just hate that she's fat.

Actually scratch that, you know who male Ribrianne is? Toppo. Toppo is totally a male version of her because he's from her parallel universe. Like her, he leads a team of genre heroes, is dorkily obsessed with a single concept and is extraordinarily powerful despite looking like he needs to lay off the cheeseburgers. And he doesn't get nearly the amount of flack she does. The worst he gets is people who occasional say the constant "justice" talk is annoying. But nowhere near as much as people who complain about Ribrianne's "love" talk and almost no one calls him ugly.
Toppo is not the same as Ribrianne. Toppo isn't annoying, fighting for justice actually makes sense whereas fighting with the power of love doesn't and is just a gag. Ribrianne has an annoying and obnoxious personality, whereas Toppo is more restrained. Toppo also wasn't in almost every single episode of the damn tournament since he was introduced, unlike Ribrianne. Toppo is also relevant strength-wise because he's at least as strong as SSB, where Ribrianne was getting bodied by a base Vegeta. She's like an annoying fly that keeps popping up with her annoying and nonsensical gimmick. If she was actually at SSB level she wouldn't be as bad, but since she's obnoxious, weak, always in your face, ugly fat design, and constantly repeating the same gag over and over and over again (because there's literally nothing else to her character, unlike Toppo who has more going for him then just shouting "JUSTICE!" over and over again with the whole becoming a GoD thing, his relationship with Jiren, and his grudge with Goku) then she's just going to be a character that most people dislike.
Still seems odd that some spend allot of time Kataphrut my friend complaining about 1 character while they are still in development of their origin story are they not?! :think:

It seems Rather then give her time to develop which toei is doing some seem quick in throwing her out fast just cause she has not met some pre-determine standard that seems some fans have labeled to her so very early on. By all time accounts at most she has had the equivalent of 2 1/2 episodes or less to develop while Toppo has had 3 to 4 times that much so far, hardly the over use of time many say she has had.

But also Fans like me see the pattern that Toei is doing and it is classic Magical Girl/Sailor Moon Journey to power and self style. It is not brass and forward as some traditional dragon ball characters are, but that is what makes it so unique and we see each moment on the steps of her development. This desire to label her as nothing is overly simple and ignores basic storytelling that takes time to develop, her screentime what little it has been has been a stepping latter in every right direction to this development. Many don't understand this style but that is ok, but just cause you don't get it does not mean it is not worth it happening.

Like I keep saying, the over focus on her to be thrown down seem petty in many cases, when a character is on I don't really care for I just don't care as much what happens and wait until the next moment comes. She is just 1 new character of a major cast, it is easy to gloss past her and let her be for those of us that like her, continuing the point some don't want to see any of her is unrealistic and have to accept in life you will not get 100% of what you want to see, you have to learn to watch parts that are not your cup of tea, for now.

Also the term she is weak is Beyond Incorrect and if one Like Me that Focuses on her and Breaks down her Resume So Far and honestly gives on Honest Account of Each fight and why each one happen they way they had you find a more Bigger Picture of a Stronger Fighter that had a moment of lost confidence back in Episode 111.

One should go to both links down below to see my Breakdowns in the order they are, their you will see how determing Ribrianne as weak is a gross understament by many accounts and is sad that many seem to gloss over what she has shown already;

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=40110&start=200#p1396800

viewtopic.php?p=1396036#p1395739

Each fan has their Favorites and each one of us takes our Pride in Taking down chronological notes and points on who they are and what they can do. I am A Ribrianne fan and proud of that and I take down more closer notes then many here, so when I give my Reasoning for these observations above, due note that they are the work of much calculations, observation and watching of the episodes and moments very closely. I don't put down anything lightly, but I do put down what I find as the hard facts.

In the end Ribrianne, Caulifla, Kale or any other character you are not found of you are just going to have to accept they are going to be here for a good time to come, one will not get all they want. Maybe it is best to like I have said to many over the years and it works well, is to relax, open your mind to new concepts and characters and let the story flow the way it is intended too. You find much more enjoyment out of your media. ;)

I honestly really don't care much anymore about Negatives on the Girls, but will debate when I feel it is needed. We are in a forum speaking to a select few fans as part of a wider world of Fans and opinions, many more positive then we see around. The Girls will be her for sometime to come.
Not to be a pointless foil, but that's hardly a certainty. Toriyama unexpectedly drops characters all the time, regardless of perceived popularity. I wouldn't be surprised if they stuck around, but nor would I be if they vanished back into Universe 6 after this.
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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by SansrivaaL » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:58 pm

HeroR wrote: An asshole is an asshole if you asked me and trying to destroy a planet over pudding anyway is far worse than 'overhyping themselves'. At least one doesn't led to genocide. Even the Kais pointed that Beerus' destruction wasn't justified since he was so petty and this is all confirmed by U7's low mortal rating. So no, "he was destroying planets because its his job" really doesn't work since Beerus wasn't even doing his job well. And Beerus "suck his own shit is it" by pointed out that he's a god, you're mortal, do what I say or I will destroy you. Which again, is worse than someone having a small ego since one is threatening murder or erasing in this case.

Beerus did far worse shit and got away with it and people ate his shit up too.

It seems you're okay with Beerus because he can back his BS, which just makes him worse in my eyes since Cali may come off as a cocky brat, Beerus come off as a malicious spoiled brat bully.
It works because thats how he thinks it works, he see’s it as doing his job, its just that him and the kai’s in u7 sucks at their jobs.
Beerus is a GoD and in a way he is right, what the hell can mortals do against a GoD, he was damn nice enough to let them live and played alomg with Goku despite the huge power gap between them and amused him.

By far worst you mean doing his job and sucking at it then yes, thats easier to swallow.

Well yeah honestly, Its a hell of a lot bette to back your shit up than be a deluded brat, perspectives how do they work? Its like you being fine with Cauli but not with Beerus,

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by HeroR » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:11 am

SansrivaaL wrote:
It works because thats how he thinks it works, he see’s it as doing his job, its just that him and the kai’s in u7 sucks at their jobs.
Beerus is a GoD and in a way he is right, what the hell can mortals do against a GoD, he was damn nice enough to let them live and played alomg with Goku despite the huge power gap between them and amused him.

By far worst you mean doing his job and sucking at it then yes, thats easier to swallow.

Well yeah honestly, Its a hell of a lot bette to back your shit up than be a deluded brat, perspectives how do they work? Its like you being fine with Cauli but not with Beerus,
I doubt that since Beerus nearly pissed himself when he saw Zen'o and Whis told Zen'o how he sucks at his job. He knew he wasn't doing his job right. Shin at least have the excuse of being inexperience and even that's Beerus' fault since he was the one supposed to kill Majin Buu, not the Supreme Kais. Instead, he slept as his fellow gods were slaughtered and he's lucky that he didn't die in this sleep.

"What the hell can mortals do against a GoD", that's a really crappy mindset and a wrong one by looking at Jiren. And Bidibi, a weak mortal, nearly killed Beerus by using Buu by killing all the Kais. Something Beerus could have prevented if he wasn't such a lazy cat.

No, he's worse because Beerus is a petty, spoil brat with a bunch of berserk buttons where he will destroy a planet over bad food. He blew up King Kai's planet, a fellow god, over losing a game and trapped his supposed equal Old Kai in a sword. Yet, I am supposed to believe that Cali having a upperity attitude is worse.

I don't mind Cali since I don't see her as all that arrogant, at least no more arrogant that most of the cast in Dragon Ball. She wants to reach higher heights and tends to overestimate herself, but at the same time she's more than willing to fangirl and asked for help for those stronger than her. When that happens, she become noticeable more respectful to Cabba and Goku, the point of following Cabba's orders despite her having no real reason to listen to him. And even at Cali most "delusional' she isn't rushing Jiren unlike someone else. In fact, she seems to pick her fights and even took the time to rest instead of going into needless battles. The only time she has shown willing to fight while she was resting was to help Hit and when she was personally attacked.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by SansrivaaL » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:29 am

HeroR wrote:
SansrivaaL wrote:
It works because thats how he thinks it works, he see’s it as doing his job, its just that him and the kai’s in u7 sucks at their jobs.
Beerus is a GoD and in a way he is right, what the hell can mortals do against a GoD, he was damn nice enough to let them live and played alomg with Goku despite the huge power gap between them and amused him.

By far worst you mean doing his job and sucking at it then yes, thats easier to swallow.

Well yeah honestly, Its a hell of a lot bette to back your shit up than be a deluded brat, perspectives how do they work? Its like you being fine with Cauli but not with Beerus,
I doubt that since Beerus nearly pissed himself when he saw Zen'o and Whis told Zen'o how he sucks at his job. He knew he wasn't doing his job right. Shin at least have the excuse of being inexperience and even that's Beerus' fault since he was the one supposed to kill Majin Buu, not the Supreme Kais. Instead, he slept as his fellow gods were slaughtered and he's lucky that he didn't die in this sleep.

"What the hell can mortals do against a GoD", that's a really crappy mindset and a wrong one by looking at Jiren. And Bidibi, a weak mortal, nearly killed Beerus by using Buu by killing all the Kais. Something Beerus could have prevented if he wasn't such a lazy cat.

No, he's worse because Beerus is a petty, spoil brat with a bunch of berserk buttons where he will destroy a planet over bad food. He blew up King Kai's planet, a fellow god, over losing a game and trapped his supposed equal Old Kai in a sword. Yet, I am supposed to believe that Cali having a upperity attitude is worse.

I don't mind Cali since I don't see her as all that arrogant, at least no more arrogant that most of the cast in Dragon Ball. She wants to reach higher heights and tends to overestimate herself, but at the same time she's more than willing to fangirl and asked for help for those stronger than her. When that happens, she become noticeable more respectful to Cabba and Goku, the point of following Cabba's orders despite her having no real reason to listen to him. And even at Cali most "delusional' she isn't rushing Jiren unlike someone else. In fact, she seems to pick her fights and even took the time to rest instead of going into needless battles. The only time she has shown willing to fight while she was resting was to help Hit and when she was personally attacked.
Wasnt that him pissing himself because literally every GoD even the ones that are doing their jobs right normally pisses themselves when it has something to do with Zeno? like I said, he sucks at his job plain and simple.

”in a way he is right” you should really try and understand what I'm saying first.

Thats subjective since for me whats worst is a disrespectful deluded little brat who overhypes her shit and eats it without being able to back that shit up and miraculously doesnt get any consequences for her shit.

Good for you then, I for one dislikes her character. She wasn't really respectful towards any of them especially Cabba, it was more about her listening to Kale. Yeah right, Id rather take what Vegeta was trying to do despit deuded than someone overhyping themselves to something she has no businesses with “scared of what? Who? Goku? Jiren? yeah no, I'm scared of my own limitless hurr durr” no no, delete that.

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by HeroR » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:44 am

SansrivaaL wrote: Wasnt that him pissing himself because literally every GoD even the ones that are doing their jobs right normally pisses themselves when it has something to do with Zeno? like I said, he sucks at his job plain and simple.

”in a way he is right” you should really try and understand what I'm saying first.

Thats subjective since for me whats worst is a disrespectful deluded little brat who overhypes her shit and eats it without being able to back that shit up and miraculously doesnt get any consequences for her shit.

Good for you then, I for one dislikes her character. She wasn't really respectful towards any of them especially Cabba, it was more about her listening to Kale. Yeah right, Id rather take what Vegeta was trying to do despit deuded than someone overhyping themselves to something she has no businesses with “scared of what? Who? Goku? Jiren? yeah no, I'm scared of my own limitless hurr durr” no no, delete that.
Here's the thing, not only was he terrified at Zen'o for the obvious reasons, he was basically wetting himself when Whis threw him under the bus about how crappy he is at his job. Since Whis is one to tell Beerus how it is, there is no reason to think that Beerus didn't know how crappy he was, he just didn't care because "I'm the god". Which is why what's happening to him now is more than a little karma.

The debate we're having is if Beerus sucks at his job, which we both agree he does, but is he aware that he sucks or was he really doing the job the best way he knows how. You think yes, I believe hell no. He not only sucked, but he knew he sucked.

I have already explained why I think "disrespectful deluded little brat who overhypes her shit and eats it without being able to back that shit up and miraculously doesnt get any consequences for her shit", is not worse than a god who commits murder for petty reasons and looks down on those who are supposed to be his equal to the point that he actively bullies them. One is harmless, the other isn't. And funny enough, Cali did back some of her shit up. She talked shit about the Pride Troopers and she and Kale rung out five of them who ganged up on them.

Vegeta is being a moron and he overhyped himself by going after Jiren and dismissing Toppo as not worth his time because he's number two. At least Cali never pulled the quality control on her opponent or calls herself Cali-sama. And Vegeta should know better by now since every time he start this up, he get pounded.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by KingKaash » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:55 am

Okora wrote:
KingKaash wrote:Up and down episode to me

Positives:

-Vegeta not being portrayed badly. Vegeta not giving energy to Goku's Spirit Bomb was a real low point for him but seeing him reveal his wish to resurrect everyone if he wins the ToP put him back on the good guy column
-Frieza continues to impress every time he's shown. Beating up on the exhausted Cabba was classic Frieza. Though I was a bit surprised he had to go Golden Frieza to not get harmed by SSJ2 Cabba's attack, he did mention right after that it was not a good idea to waste his energy to go Golden to eliminate Cabba, which makes me think he didn't need to

Mixed:

-Not focusing on Piccolo and Vegeta's fight with the U6 Namekians. I hope an episode gets devoted to that. I don't like these little scenes of potentially good fights
-Not focusing on Vegeta vs Toppo. Another incredible fight that is happening off-screen that needs to get it's own episode. These big-time fights not being shown results in choppiness in the flow of the episode because we want to see this happen but then we get to the main focus which is only Cabba vs Monna. Have the main guys fight fodder off-screen.
-Cabba's SSJ2 transformation felt a bit forced. I would've liked if Monna kept going up and down and crushing Cabba deeper into the ground while saying those things about Vegeta, Caulifla and Kale. Then Cabba going SSJ2 from down there and fending off Monna would've been so much better. It seems Cabba becoming SSJ2 is a sign that Caulifla needs to get a new form in the near future to keep ahead of Cabba
-Writers losing a really good opportunity to give Goku a break and focus on other characters. I like seeing Goku. And I understand the strategy of the GoDs is to eliminate a very weakened Goku because this is their best chance. Still I think the writers could've not given Goku fights for a about two episodes to "rest his body." Then when the U3 robots attacked, Android 17 & 18 could come to protect him and further their stories. They did do that when the U6 Namekians attacked Goku by having Gohan and Piccolo jump in. But unfortunately they could not leave completely Goku alone.
-Caulifla attacking Goku at this point of the ToP. Again Goku is extremely exhausted. I'd rather see Goku vs Caulifla when Goku is bit more rested and recovered. But I guess fighting an exhausted Goku is a way for Caulifla to stand a chance

Did Goku really say he's going SSJ3 against Caulifla in the next episode??? This dude Goku is trying to recover and he's about to use the form that expends the most energy??? WTF? I didn't see it visually in the preview so I hope that doesn't happen because that makes no sense.
How exactly was his transformation forced? Gohan got it by watching a random stranger get killed Cabba got it being told the people he care about are worthless and weak
The messages that triggered SSJ2 are polar opposites. Monna taunting Cabba that she'll destroy Vegeta, Caulifla and Kale is such low-hanging fruit. Taunting is the easiest way to force anger. And the saddest part about Monna's taunting is that it's false because she'd get crushed by any of the people she's telling Cabba she would destroy.

The message that triggered SSJ2 Gohan was deep. Gohan has this internal struggle between wanting to fight but not wanting to hurt anyone, even those that are evil like Cell. But Android 16 told him it's necessary to fight to protect those who can't protect themselves from evil. This results in one of the greatest transformations in DB history.

The only reasons Cabba got SSJ2 in the ToP was:
1) To show Cabba had improved before being eliminated
2) Cabba matches Caulifla at the SSJ2 form as of Episode 112 so Caulifla has to get another form to stay ahead of Cabba in the future episodes
"Gohan, let it go. It is not a sin to fight for the right cause. There are those who words alone will not reach. Cell is such a being. I know how you feel Gohan, you are gentle, you do not like to hurt. I know because I too have learned these feelings. But it is because you cherish life that you must protect it. Please drop your restraints. Protect the life I once loved. You have the strength, my scanners sensed it..." -Android 16

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by SansrivaaL » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:30 am

HeroR wrote: Here's the thing, not only was he terrified at Zen'o for the obvious reasons, he was basically wetting himself when Whis threw him under the bus about how crappy he is at his job. Since Whis is one to tell Beerus how it is, there is no reason to think that Beerus didn't know how crappy he was, he just didn't care because "I'm the god". Which is why what's happening to him now is more than a little karma.

The debate we're having is if Beerus sucks at his job, which we both agree he does, but is he aware that he sucks or was he really doing the job the best way he knows how. You think yes, I believe hell no. He not only sucked, but he knew he sucked.

I have already explained why I think "disrespectful deluded little brat who overhypes her shit and eats it without being able to back that shit up and miraculously doesnt get any consequences for her shit", is not worse than a god who commits murder for petty reasons and looks down on those who are supposed to be his equal to the point that he actively bullies them. One is harmless, the other isn't. And funny enough, Cali did back some of her shit up. She talked shit about the Pride Troopers and she and Kale rung out five of them who ganged up on them.

Vegeta is being a moron and he overhyped himself by going after Jiren and dismissing Toppo as not worth his time because he's number two. At least Cali never pulled the quality control on her opponent or calls herself Cali-sama. And Vegeta should know better by now since every time he start this up, he get pounded.
I didnt deny Beerus knowing he sucks at his job, he knows thats what he needs to do and also knows he sucks at it and has no intention of learning how to properly do it, what I'm getting at is his reaction towards Zeno doesnt point that out as much since even the GoDs who knows how to do their jobs pisses themselves when it comes to Zeno.

I couldnt really care less if he knows he's doing a shitty job with his line of work to be honest, all I need to know is he sucks at his job, but if you want my thoughts then yes I agree, but to a degree, he still thinks destroying stuffs is what he should do being the GoD and all, just that he's doing it the wrong way which he probably doesnt know how to do better nor does he plan to do better probably.

You didnt really need to explain that because its subjective on who views who as more tolerable than the other, both assholes in a different way, you prefer the one that cant back her shit up and doesnt get consequences and I prefer the one that can but still gets consequences, just look at Beerus shit himself up everytime Zeno pops in, while Cauli doesnt give a shit about anything nor anyone when it comes to paying respects and being humble, you'll probably mention Hit and Kale but her attitude towards them isnt exactly what I'm going for, its more along the lines of knowing and paying respect to your enemy which even Beerus showed to Goku despite their huge gap in power.

I already said this multiple times, thats the point as to why I prefer Vegeta, he gets BURNED hard, he gets consequences from his arrogant bs every now and then which makes it funny, Cauli on the other hand gets no consequences.

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Re: Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

Post by JazzMazz » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:46 am

Cabba wrote:
HeroR wrote: Super's animation have nothing to do with budget. And it wasn't 'nerf'. The enemies Goku fights got stronger. And Vegeta never fights Black as any golden Super Saiyan in the anime and Vegeta doesn't even have Super Saiyan 3. Your one example was also an outlier that everyone noted.
If it doesn't have anything to do with budget then why cant they dedicate more man hours to make SS3 look better? if money is not the reason then what is?
Just here to answer the budget mis-conception.

The problem with Super is that its a very rushed production where a lot of the episodes are only produced last minute. The reason why its rushed has to do with the lack of pre-production the series had, which was a bad foot to start the show on, that why we got the infamous episode 5 and the show hasn't really recovered since then even though we've been getting loads of staff from finishing shows like Tiger Mask W.

The Super board has a thread devoted to documenting the production of the show. Here's an entry from that thread about one of the more troubled episodes of this arc production wise.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

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