What does "Daizenshuu" mean to you?

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:43 pm

While this conversation picks up again (hopefully), one thing I want to point out for those of you who don't follow the show is that at the end of the latest podcast episode (#102 as of this writing), we took a look at some supposed "translations" from daizenshuu two that have been floating around a while. I'll let that discussion speak for itself.

Post by **Herms** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:01 am

VegettoEX wrote:
Herms wrote:Unfortunately, I don't have my Daizenshuu in my dorm, and home is a six hour drive, so I can't really investigate this any further. Maybe at Thanksgiving...

I could make a scan the next time I visit home, although I'm not sure how convincing people would find it ("I can't read that! It could say anything!"). By the way, I'm not saying that the fact that Dabra's bio implies Gohan was SSJ2 definitively proves that he was.
Do you remember which particular book this was in? I could take a look at it... I mean, shit... they're all right next to me . These books and the rest of the reference materials aren't mystical items to a large number of people on this forum... we have it all, and we're happy to share our knowledge when we don't get bombarded with completely unintelligible requests.

I'm pretty sure it was in Dabra's character profile in Daizenshuu 7's Gianormous Character Guide of Doom. Like I said somewhere earlier, it was describing Dabra's power by comparing it with Gohan's, so it was definitely something talking about Dabra and not Gohan.

sailorspazz · Post by **sailorspazz** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:23 am

Indeed, that part is in Dabra's character profile. Here's the scan from Daizenshuu 7:

The relevant part is a bit past the halfway point, where the '2' can be seen. It reads, "Suupaa saiyajin 2 no Gohan to hobo gokaku no tatakai wo kurihirogeru." In other words, "He put up a fight almost equal to Super Saiyan 2 Gohan" (geez, I couldn't make that sentence sound not awkward in English

). So, for what it's worth, the Daizenshuu does say that Gohan was Super Saiyan 2 during the fight. Enjoy the debating! (such arguments really aren't my cup of tea ^_^;; )

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:08 am

VegettoEX wrote:
Herms wrote:I could make a scan the next time I visit home, although I'm not sure how convincing people would find it ("I can't read that! It could say anything!"). By the way, I'm not saying that the fact that Dabra's bio implies Gohan was SSJ2 definitively proves that he was.
Do you remember which particular book this was in? I could take a look at it... I mean, shit... they're all right next to me . These books and the rest of the reference materials aren't mystical items to a large number of people on this forum... we have it all, and we're happy to share our knowledge when we don't get bombarded with completely unintelligible requests.

Hey, I have that same Japanese English dictionary.

Anyway, I've always thought Gohan was Super Saiyajin 2 against Dabra... I mean why wouldn't he be? Unless Dabra was a lot weaker than they thought, which would contradict some of Goku's dialogue. In fact, I remember him saying that Dabra was "stronger than they thought" sometime after assuming he was as strong as Cell. You could look at it as Goku comparing Dabra to how strong Goku thinks Gohan should be, but then again, we're talking about Goku here, and he should be able to sense how strong everybody is anyway. I find it unlikely for him to overestimate Dabra by so much.

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:00 am

Wow, thank you for that scan. It's greatly appreciated!
I look forward to sharing it with others; not as proof, but just to shoot down the "long-term misconceptions" about what the books say, and don't say.

And VegettoEX, lol I want to use a "clone ray" on that entire bookshelf of yours... dupe it all like some bad diablo2 items lol. Nice collection.

Post by **Herms** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:00 am

Hey, thanks sailorspazz! You saved me some trouble.

Since that’s taken care of, I think that while I’m home for Thanksgiving I’ll just look through my Daizenshuu for any more interesting tidbits that I don’t think are widely known and post them here. I’ve already got a few in mind…

Incidentally, I have the same Japanese-English dictionary as VegettoEX and The Lecherous Muten Roshi.

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:12 pm

Herms wrote:Hey, thanks sailorspazz! You saved me some trouble.

Since that’s taken care of, I think that while I’m home for Thanksgiving I’ll just look through my Daizenshuu for any more interesting tidbits that I don’t think are widely known and post them here. I’ve already got a few in mind…

Incidentally, I have the same Japanese-English dictionary as VegettoEX and The Lecherous Muten Roshi.

That would be great. The problem with these books is... they are not that available anymore. I remember back in the day you could pick them up on Ebay with no problem, but I was just a jobless kiddie back then.

Now, that I'm actually willing to sink some money into owning them, they are "ultra-rare"

Anyway, I actually have another question about the Daizenshuu presented information, and it too is spawned by a video game: In the recent release "Sparking Meteor" the character profile for King Cold states "Offically, he is stronger then Frieza and Cooler."

The Cold vs Freeza debate is one in which I've always sided with Freeza. All I'm really wondering is what Spike meant when they said "Offically." Was Cold mentioned as being stronger then Freeza in the Daizenshuu? Or was this taken from some other "offical" source... or maybe simply made up completly? (I'd really like to think that profesionals who own a legal license to produce Dragonball merchandise wouldn't do such a thing. But you never know)

SonEric84 · Post by **SonEric84** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:53 pm

FindKenshi wrote:That would be great. The problem with these books is... they are not that available anymore. I remember back in the day you could pick them up on Ebay with no problem, but I was just a jobless kiddie back then.

Now, that I'm actually willing to sink some money into owning them, they are "ultra-rare"

You can still find them on Ebay quite often. Last time I looked there were actually two lots of all 7.

EDIT: Found one

And another

Tyro · Post by **Tyro** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:02 pm

Links or it didn't happen.

SonEric84 · Post by **SonEric84** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:08 pm

Tyro wrote:Links or it didn't happen.

What? You don't trust me?

*points up*

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:40 pm

That's actually not too expensive o_O
Guess I didn't look hard enough!
but my request about King Cold still stands, because I'm not sure how soon I'm going to purchase these. $150 isn't that much, but it's still something I'd want to save a little extra up for. (ouch, and I just noticed the shipping is 80 bucks.. that seems outrageous. Why can't they just go through FedEx international, I'm sure it's not that much)

Post by **TripleRach** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:36 pm

I actually bought one of that guy's lots recently. They're just heavy hardcover books, and it's expensive to ship them across the Pacific. It might seem high, but airmail isn't cheap (just shipping one of the books individually is like $15-20), and I wouldn't trust anything less than airmail, especially with something that rare and expensive.

I don't think Japan has FedEX, anyway. Or if they do, I've never seen it offered by an online seller. There's Seamail, SAL, Airmail, EMS, etc...

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:27 am

FindKenshi wrote:Was Cold mentioned as being stronger then Freeza in the Daizenshuu?

The 7th Daizenshû actually says the opposite is true: "宇宙最強の一族の長だが、フリーザにはやや劣る。"

Post by **Herms** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:31 am

Olivier Hague wrote:
FindKenshi wrote:Was Cold mentioned as being stronger then Freeza in the Daizenshuu?
The 7th Daizenshû actually says the opposite is true: "宇宙最強の一族の長だが、フリーザにはやや劣る。"

Darn, beat me to it. Anyway, for those who don't know Japanese, this roughly translates out to: "While [Cold] is the head of the universe's strongest family, he's somewhat inferior to Freeza." I believe this is from Cold's bio in Daizenshuu 7.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:17 am

TripleRach wrote:I actually bought one of that guy's lots recently. They're just heavy hardcover books, and it's expensive to ship them across the Pacific. It might seem high, but airmail isn't cheap (just shipping one of the books individually is like $15-20), and I wouldn't trust anything less than airmail, especially with something that rare and expensive.

I don't think Japan has FedEX, anyway. Or if they do, I've never seen it offered by an online seller. There's Seamail, SAL, Airmail, EMS, etc...

Did you really? I spoke to him about a year ago and he kinda made me wonder about his legitimacy with his answers. I ended up going with a person who was selling the 7 hardcovers in the continental US instead.

How'd it turn out for you? Were the books really in "excellent" shape?

-Corey

Post by **TripleRach** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:50 am

MajinVejitaXV wrote:Did you really? I spoke to him about a year ago and he kinda made me wonder about his legitimacy with his answers. I ended up going with a person who was selling the 7 hardcovers in the continental US instead.

How'd it turn out for you? Were the books really in "excellent" shape?

Oh yeah, they were all in great condition. Almost all of them still have the posters (I think just one is missing), a couple have the Shenlong News things, and one even still has the obi.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:27 pm

TripleRach wrote:Oh yeah, they were all in great condition. Almost all of them still have the posters (I think just one is missing), a couple have the Shenlong News things, and one even still has the obi.

Good. I might have to ask him if he has the three paperbacks in that case.

-Corey

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:10 pm

Wow, thanks for more very helpful information. So... I wonder what Spike is reffering to when they say "Offically, Cold is stronger then Freeza." It seems... *gasps* they just made it up? It's a shame that someone who actually owns a legal license to produce Dragonball merchandise would do something like that. But, I've always thought that Freeza was stronger then Cold... Cold defers to Freeza for that entire chapter, asking him "what will you do?", and also Freeza calling himself the most powerful in the universe, right infront of Cold.

Could they be reffering to the anime episode? I haven't seen those episodes in forever, but doesn't Toei sort of imply that Cold is stronger? I'm just really at a loss for where the Sparking Meteor guys got this info, when they say "Offically' are they just... lieing?

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:18 pm

FindKenshi wrote:Could they be reffering to the anime episode? I haven't seen those episodes in forever, but doesn't Toei sort of imply that Cold is stronger? I'm just really at a loss for where the Sparking Meteor guys got this info, when they say "Offically' are they just... lieing?

I may be wrong, but I believe that the line from the episode was "Freeza is coming, and there's another enormous ki with him!" I don't think they specified that Cold was stronger.

-Corey

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:19 pm

FindKenshi wrote:Wow, thanks for more very helpful information. So... I wonder what Spike is reffering to when they say "Offically, Cold is stronger then Freeza."

I seem to remember one of the characters saying that he's sensing a ki even bigger/stronger than Freeza's, or something like that? Kulilin, maybe?