What does "Daizenshuu" mean to you?

[FindKenshi]

Well, as you can see by my post count, I'm new on this board, but I was curious about something. After skimming around in a few threads, it seems apparent that some of the members on this board seem to hold the Daizenshuu books as an "ultimate authority". Do all of you share in this belief?

I'm curious how you guys deal with inconsistencies, like the Daizenshuu claiming that Raditz's power level was 1500 or that Nappa's was only 4000 (how did he fight on par with Goku after calming down? Goku stated it would take all day to beat him, ect.) Goku being listed as "10" at the start of Dragonball (when the farmer with a shotgun was scouted at 5. (So Goku, who could pick a car up and toss it, and survive a head shot from a firearm, is only twice as strong as "regular human"? Yeah, right. )

That, combined with the fact that this site is actually named "Daizenshuu Ex" makes it really seem like this board considers the Daizenshuu books to be an indisputable authority. I was just wondering what does the Daizenshuu books mean to you personally? They were apparently composed by Toriyama's staff, but not by Toriyama himself. That’s what I’ve been led to believe anyway.

Some consider these books second only to the manga, or possibly even hold them just as high as the manga itself; while others regard them in the same tier as Toei’s “filler material”, in that it may be official, but should not be regarded as canon.

So tell me, what does “daizenshuu” mean to you?

[VegettoEX]

First off, let me point out that I stumbled across your GameFAQs thread yesterday (if a site is mentioned by name, the owner is going to find it). I'm having a fun time going through all the comments, followed up your showing up over here to plug the page.

The word "daizenshuu" in the name of the site should not be taken as an endorsement of anything in particular. It is a word highly associated with DB fandom, and basically describes what we've been attempting to do for the last decade and moving forward... cover as much stuff as we can, as thoroughly as we can, as authoritatively as we can. That's what the word means to me. Because that's what the word actually means.

I have no concrete thoughts on the rest of your questions. Personally, some things aren't worth getting into fine detail about (for example, "power levels"... the author obviously didn't put enough care into the concept to make it consistent, abandoned it, and attempts to retcon in appropriate values will inherently fall apart).

We are here to enjoy the property that is DragonBall, and if attempts to explain certain particularities about it will not work when consulting the various references available (manga, anime, guide books, etc.)... and when the fun is drained out of those topics in an attempt to explain them... perhaps it was never really meant to be taken to that level. Doesn't mean fans can't do so, but if the fun's not going to be there and there will be fandom histrionics over it, I'd rather not be involved in it.

[Phenomenol]

I was just wondering what does the Daizenshuu books mean to you personally? They were apparently composed by Toriyama's staff, but not by Toriyama himself. That’s what I’ve been led to believe anyway.

Some consider these books second only to the manga, or possibly even hold them just as high as the manga itself; while others regard them in the same tier as Toei’s “filler material”, in that it may be official, but should not be regarded as canon.

So tell me, what does “daizenshuu” mean to you?

I see the Daizneshuu's as canon, Toriyama would use them, and he even writes excerpts in them.

[MajinVejitaXV]

So tell me, what does “daizenshuu” mean to you?

Eh, as with most books of the same nature (the Phantasy Star Compendium, Xenogears Perfect Works, etc.), they're excellent supplements but they're by no means infallible. I love reading all the books, to see extra little tidbits including production sketches and the like, but...eh, I can't just blindly accept everything as being gospel.

I don't fault them for being written by people other than Akira Toriyama though, because even if Toriyama wrote them himself we all know how great his memory was

-Corey

[Kaboom]

The Daizenshuu are a nice little series of books that go along with the series. Some of 'em have colorful, nice pictures in them, but I assume you're mainly concerned about the series data ones.

They're meant to expand upon the series, and be a companion guide. Are they the Bible? No. Are they flawed in some spots? Yes. Should they be taken as absolute solid truth and anyone who challenges them them are idiots and should be banned? No. Are they nice little resources for info on our favorite series? Yes. See where I'm going?

If I could understand Japanese, I'd try to get a hold of the data ones myself. They make great reference material for fanfic writing.

EDIT:

I don't fault them for being written by people other than Akira Toriyama though, because even if Toriyama wrote them himself we all know how great his memory was

"Piccolo...? Isn't he one of Oda-kun's characters?"

[Phenomenol]

If I could understand Japanese, I'd try to get a hold of the data ones myself. They make great reference material for fanfic writing.

I wouldn't call something Toriyama himself said that he would look into for info "Fanfic writing" if he had ever forgot something, he would refer to the Daizenshuu's.

[Kaboom]

If I could understand Japanese, I'd try to get a hold of the data ones myself. They make great reference material for fanfic writing.

I wouldn't call something Toriyama himself said that he would look into for info "Fanfic writing" if he had ever forgot something, he would refer to the Daizenshuu's.

Huh? I think that sentence was strangled about 1/3rd of the way through.

[MajinVejitaXV]

I wouldn't call something Toriyama himself said that he would look into for info "Fanfic writing" if he had ever forgot something, he would refer to the Daizenshuu's.

Please...just stop. I'm begging you. You ruin every thread by trying to insist that something is canon or not. Who cares? It's DragonBall. There's like 45 types of canon.

-Corey

[FindKenshi]

First off, let me point out that I stumbled across your GameFAQs thread yesterday (if a site is mentioned by name, the owner is going to find it). I'm having a fun time going through all the comments, followed up your showing up over here to plug the page.

Nothing wrong with a little friendly compeition is there? Anyway, it's not that hard to see why a guide dedicated strictly to Super Saiyan forms would be more indepth then a site dedicated to such a broad spectrum of Dragonball, like this one is. "The jack of all trades is the master of none." If anything, you should feel complimented by my words in that thread. By me saying that my guide was more indepth then Daizex's, meaning that it was the most indepth guide around... (That is to say, that before I made mine, yours was the very best!)

I noticed a very recent update on the main daizex page, saying something about "We actually know what we're talking about." I'm not so vain to think this update was made just for me, but if it was: Chris Hoffman was indeed a fan of Dragonball, so i really don't see how saying the term USSJ was started by fans is at all inaccurate

Anyway, I'm not here to start any fights, I wasn't really bad mouthing Daizex in my gamefaqs thread, I simply stated that my guide was more indepth and contained more information, which at this point in time: it indeed does.

Daizneshuu's are canon, Toriyama said so, and he even writes excerpts in them.

If that's true, I would appreciate a reference, as that is big news to me. I know he has excerpts and interviews contained with in them, but as for him stating they are canon, that I have not heard before. I'm not saying I don't believe you, I'm just asking for proof, nothing wrong with that.

I'm very interested in this subject, I hope you can provide me with the proof I crave, as this would be HUGE news as far as I'm concerned.

[MajinVejitaXV]

I'm very interested in this subject, I hope you can provide me with the proof I crave, as this would be HUGE news as far as I'm concerned.

Welcome to the site, just a friendly bit of advice: Don't ask Phenomenol for any type of proof. He makes baseless claims, goes off of bad fan translations, and to my knowledge doesn't even own any Daizenshuu. Plus, when people give him actual translations, he takes them out of context to get whatever answer he wants.

Other than that, enjoy your stay here!

-Corey

[Phenomenol]

I am not trying to insist it is canon I simply made a comment...What are you talking about MajinVegetaXV? Looks like your the only one trying to start something.

Huh? I think that sentence was strangled about 1/3rd of the way through.

Sorry SSJ Kaboom, let me be more clear. Toriyama said that he would have checked the Daizneshuu whenever he had forgotten about some parts of the series. I would hardly use the Daizneshuu's as "fanfiction."

That is all I wanted to post.

[MajinVejitaXV]

I am not trying to insist it is canon I simply made a comment...What are you talking about MjinVegetaXV? Looks like your the only one trying to start something.

No, I'm simply going off previous threads that you've started. Like this one, where you ignored the context of the answer you were given. It's frustrating, but you're entitled to whatever you want to think. I simply don't want other people to get confused by your misinformation.

Sorry SSJ Kaboom, let me be more clear. Toriyama said that he would have checked the Daizneshuu whenever he had forgotten about some parts of the series. I would hardly use the Daizneshuu's as "fanfiction."

That is all I wanted to post.

He meant you could use them as a condensed reference guide if you wanted to write a Fanfiction, not that they themselves are Fanfiction >_>;;

-Corey

[Phenomenol]

No, I'm simply going off previous threads that you've started. Like this one, where you ignored the context of the answer you were given. It's frustrating, but you're entitled to whatever you want to think. I simply don't want other people to get confused by your misinformation.

LOL Again, what does that thread have to do with this thread? I didn't create this thread? What did I ignore? What "misinformation" did I present? Your chatting crap.

He meant you could use them as a condensed reference guide if you wanted to write a Fanfiction, not that they themselves are Fanfiction.

Yep.

[VegettoEX]

Nothing wrong with a little friendly compeition is there? Anyway, it's not that hard to see why a guide dedicated strictly to Super Saiyan forms would be more indepth then a site dedicated to such a broad spectrum of Dragonball, like this one is. "The jack of all trades is the master of none." If anything, you should feel complimented by my words in that thread. By me saying that my guide was more indepth then Daizex's, meaning that it was the most indepth guide around... (That is to say, that before I made mine, yours was the very best!)

I noticed a very recent update on the main daizex page, saying something about "We actually know what we're talking about." I'm not so vain to think this update was made just for me, but if it was: Chris Hoffman was indeed a fan of Dragonball, so i really don't see how saying the term USSJ was started by fans is at all inaccurate

The text in that update is an in-joke for podcast listeners. If you didn't get the joke, all that means to me is that you're not a podcast listener. However you want to misconstrue it beyond that is up to you.

Anyway, I'm not here to start any fights, I wasn't really bad mouthing Daizex in my gamefaqs thread, I simply stated that my guide was more indepth and contained more information, which at this point in time: it indeed does.

I don't care one way or the other if anyone wants to run around and say either fantastic or horrific things about us and our content. The only thing I'll point out is that if you either mention a website by name or especially have it linked to in an internet discussion, it's going to be found by the owner of said site, and it would probably be extremely naive to think otherwise.

Welcome to the site, just a friendly bit of advice: Don't ask Phenomenol for any type of proof. He makes baseless claims, goes off of bad fan translations, and to my knowledge doesn't even own any Daizenshuu. Plus, when people give him actual translations, he takes them out of context to get whatever answer he wants.

Amen.

[Phenomenol]

Welcome to the site, just a friendly bit of advice: Don't ask Phenomenol for any type of proof. He makes baseless claims, goes off of bad fan translations, and to my knowledge doesn't even own any Daizenshuu. Plus, when people give him actual translations, he takes them out of context to get whatever answer he wants.

Amen.

So you condone this type of asinine statement? You bring a tear to my eye Mr. Moderator.

I NEVER present misleading information, You can stop lying MVXV because everything I present is FACT.

Where did I ever give misleading info?

[MajinVejitaXV]

LOL Again, what does that thread have to do with this thread?

You don't see the relevance? Very well, let's try this slowly:

This thread (the one you're reading, right now) asked about Daizenshuu, wherein you stated they were canon according to Akira Toriyama. You have yet to provide the supporting evidence for this statement.

The thread I linked had to do with a similar topic, wherein you asked for a translation of a page from the DragonBall Z Anime Guide that pertained to Toriyama's involvement in filler. You were given one, that in context stated Toriyama gave ideas and concepts. You took this out of context and started (even to the person who translated it for you) insisting that this meant he wrote the filler.

Point being, in short, you don't know a damned thing. Hence you're not a reliable source of any information. Clear enough?

Your chatting crap.

And it appears that, in addition to not knowing Japanese (and being a dick to those who take the time to translate it for you), you don't know proper English. Point made. Piss off.

-Corey

[Phenomenol]

LOL Again, what does that thread have to do with this thread?

You don't see the relevance? Very well, let's try this slowly:

This thread (the one you're reading, right now) asked about Daizenshuu, wherein you stated they were canon according to Akira Toriyama. You have yet to provide the supporting evidence for this statement.

The thread I linked had to do with a similar topic, wherein you asked for a translation of a page from the DragonBall Z Anime Guide that pertained to Toriyama's involvement in filler. You were given one, that in context stated Toriyama gave ideas and concepts. You took this out of context and started (even to the person who translated it for you) insisting that this meant he wrote the filler.

Point being, in short, you don't know a damned thing. Hence you're not a reliable source of any information. Clear enough?

Your chatting crap.

And it appears that, in addition to not know Japanese (and being a dick to those who take the time to translate it for you), you don't know proper English. Point made. Piss off.

-Corey

"This is the seventh and final volume of the daizenshuu, a Dragon Ball Encyclopedia. The staff who creates these for me go through an awful lot of trouble each time but this time I think they might just have gone straight through Hell, havent you guys? THANK YOU for your hard work. For me, "Mr. Amazingly Forgetful", even though I'm the author of the series, parts that I've lost touch with are in no short supply. I often fell into a lot of the problems during the series so if this massive encyclopedia was around back then, I would really have been saved...which is kinda embarrassing.

And so before I ramble on, Staff and fans of Dragon Ball, thank you so very much."

MajinVejitaXV just got...


Who's next?

[Kaboom]

He meant you could use them as a condensed reference guide if you wanted to write a Fanfiction, not that they themselves are Fanfiction >_>;;

-Corey

Yeah, that. ^_^;

[MajinVejitaXV]

"This is the seventh and final volume of the daizenshuu, a Dragon Ball Encyclopedia. The staff who creates these for me go through an awful lot of trouble each time but this time I think they might just have gone straight through Hell, havent you guys? THANK YOU for your hard work. For me, "Mr. Amazingly Forgetful", even though I'm the author of the series, parts that I've lost touch with are in no short supply. I often fell into a lot of the problems during the series so if this massive encyclopedia was around back then, I would really have been saved...which is kinda embarrassing.

And so before I ramble on, Staff and fans of Dragon Ball, thank you so very much."


1 Smart ass = pwned

Like I said you leave

Huzzah, yet another case of taking things out of context. Nowhere in that statement does Toriyama state that the Daizenshuu are canon or equal to his own writing, he simply states (in a humble and respectful way) that he appreciates the efforts of the people who wrote them (i.e. - Not him) and that had they been around, he would have not had as much difficulty remembering all the details that he created himself in 11 years of writing the series (i.e. - "Thanks for filling in my plotholes").

Let it go dude. They're great books with great information, but they're not canon. And really, who gives a damn?

1 Dumb ass = still dumb.

-Corey

P.S. - Hey Mike, can I have a custom title? Apparently I'm the Ass, with a capital A. I feel this needs to be recognized ;p

[desirecampbell]

/weeps

LOL Again, what does that thread have to do with this thread? I didn't create this thread? What did I ignore? What "misinformation" did I present?

This! In this very thread, just a few posts ago. Right here:

If I could understand Japanese, I'd try to get a hold of the data ones myself. They make great reference material for fanfic writing.

I wouldn't call something Toriyama himself said that he would look into for info "Fanfic writing" if he had ever forgot something, he would refer to the Daizenshuu's.

Please Phen, you're a complete jackass. You've gone out of your way here, and elsewhere, to make trouble. I've flipped out enough at you and others - I'm not wasting my bandwidth on you again. You have and continue to argue points without merit. You refuse to acknowledge counter points.

Please...just stop. I'm begging you. You ruin every thread by trying to insist that something is canon or not. Who cares? It's DragonBall. There's like 45 types of canon.
-Corey

And that's my new sig quote.

-edit-

P.S. - Hey Mike, can I have a custom title? Apparently I'm the Ass, with a capital A. I feel this needs to be recognized ;p

I think the only one who needs a new title is Phenomenol, kind of like Meri's old one.