What does "Daizenshuu" mean to you?

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:19 am

Obviously they knew how Goku looked like...for them getting revenge for Gero, they should at least know who to look for.

Toriyama Boss · Post by **Toriyama Boss** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:30 am

sailorspazz wrote:Indeed, that part is in Dabra's character profile. Here's the scan from Daizenshuu 7:

Yes this is from Daizenshuu 7. I always wanted to get my hands on this book. I hear these Dragonball Daizenshuu have a lot of unknown info in them.

Here is a full translation.....

"Dabura
King of Hell

History: Exact age is unknown, but he has lived over 300 years.

First Appearance: 446

Special Information: In the reverse of the world Goku(and friends) live in, Hell, he the man who boasts the highest strength. He was manipulated by Babidi and became his tool. He had the same strength as Cell, but above that he also had black magic ability. After his death, the “King of Darkness” was delighted to go to Hell, so King Enma sent him to heaven instead.

Techniques: Petrification, many Black Magic Skills

Battles: Fought an almost equal battle with Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. After that, he felt that the revived Majin Buu was dangerous and fought with him. He was beat down, turned into a cookie, and eaten. While he was the one Supreme Kai was so afraid of, the strongest of Hell, a powerful person, it was an extremely miserable ending."

I can speak fluid Japanese (my English is pretty bad though

) so if anyone wants to post anything else from the Daizenshuu I will be willing to translate it.

I have a question, does Daizenshuu 7 state anything about the "Kiri's?" The energy measuring devices used by Babidi in the Buu saga?

If anyone could post the scan of this I would appreciate it and I could translate it?

Thank you!

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:08 am

Toriyama Boss, is it really saying "hell" or is it saying ma-kai? I don't know any Japanese, so don't get the wrong idea--I'm not trying to correct you. I just remember it being called that in the anime when i was watching subtitled episodes. Would ma-kai just mean "demon world", or would "Hell" be just as apt a translation?

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:25 am

Since we already have an actual "hell" / "jigoku" (below the Kaiôsei), I guess we shouldn't translate "makai" (the word used in that entry) into "hell".

Post by **Herms** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:26 pm

Toriyama Boss wrote: I have a question, does Daizenshuu 7 state anything about the "Kiri's?" The energy measuring devices used by Babidi in the Buu saga?

If anyone could post the scan of this I would appreciate it and I could translate it?

Thank you!

Daizenshuu 7 does have a dictionary of special terms used in the series, and it includes a definition of 'kiri'. I'll see if I can get you a scan over my Thanksgiving break, but I might not be able to because I don't have a scanner at my house (so for those of you keeping track, my setup is thus: at my college I have a scanner but no Daizenshuu or manga, and at my home I have Daizenshuu and manga but no scanner. Just brilliant). If I can't get a scan, I'll just write down what it says.

FindKenshi wrote:Toriyama Boss, is it really saying "hell" or is it saying ma-kai? I don't know any Japanese, so don't get the wrong idea--I'm not trying to correct you. I just remember it being called that in the anime when i was watching subtitled episodes. Would ma-kai just mean "demon world", or would "Hell" be just as apt a translation?

The word used in the Daizenshuu scan sailorspazz posted does indeed used the word 'makai'(good call!), which does literally mean 'demon world. Since hell is a world of demons, I guess you could translate 'makai' as 'hell, but 'jigoku' is the Japanese word which more directly corresponds to 'hell'. Also, as Olivier notes, since there's both a Makai and a Jigoku in the Dragon Ball cosmology, it's best to keep the two words seperate.

Toriyama Boss · Post by **Toriyama Boss** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:58 pm

FindKenshi wrote:Toriyama Boss, is it really saying "hell" or is it saying ma-kai?

Your right I just looked at it; it is Demon World not Hell. Oliver Hague and Herms hit it on the money. I will be more careful next time I translate.
Thank you for the correction.

Herms wrote:Daizenshuu 7 does have a dictionary of special terms used in the series, and it includes a definition of 'kiri'. I'll see if I can get you a scan over my Thanksgiving break, but I might not be able to because I don't have a scanner at my house (so for those of you keeping track, my setup is thus: at my college I have a scanner but no Daizenshuu or manga, and at my home I have Daizenshuu and manga but no scanner. Just brilliant). If I can't get a scan, I'll just write down what it says.

Wow, so it does have information on "Kiri!"
Goku had a reading of 3,000 and Yakkon had a reading of 800 (iirc).
I will await you or anyone else who can scan that excerpt from the Daizenshuu about "Kiri," then I will translate it.

If anyone wants me to translate anything from the Daizenshuu please feel free to post the scan and I will get to it.

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:25 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:Since we already have an actual "hell" / "jigoku" (below the Kaiôsei), I guess we shouldn't translate "makai" (the word used in that entry) into "hell".

And that was my whole point of asking, too. To determine if these places were seperate entities. I thought they were different places, but it's definitly nice to know for sure. So Dabura doesn't actually come from Hell, it seems he just comes from a "negative world" in which everything is evil. That's kind of neat.

Toriyama Boss wrote:I will be more careful next time I translate.
Thank you for the correction.

No problem, but it wasn't really a "correction" on my part. I cannot read a single character of Japanese language. The only reason I suspected it was saying "Makai" instead of "hell" is because in my Viz version of the manga, Kibito worded it that Dabura came from the "demon plane". If it was just that alone, I'd have just ignored it, since Viz is wrong quite a bit. However, in the English-subtilted Japanese episode I have, I did indeed recall the word "makai" being used. I just figured "Demon Plane" being used in both versions was too big a coincidence.

Toriyama Boss · Post by **Toriyama Boss** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:34 pm

Yep it's Makai. I checked my Dragonball Kanzenban and Dragonball Z Japanese subtitled original DVD's too. I translated it to hell because that's the closest English I can think of for makai. World of spirits doesn't carry the same "darkness".