Jiren's Wish

[emperior]

Jiren's wish was more of metaphor for his character, in regards to it being selfish. Jiren's main motivation for who he is today was because of his traumatic past and the circumstances of his wish was influenced. And by letting go of his past, and finally moving forward and realising there is more to life the solitude in strength, his wish was discharged as that was in itself tied to past he struggled to let go of. What Jiren's wish was specifically wasn't the important, it's what it represented for his character. He developed as person, understanding the meaning and significance of bonds and friendship, and because of that, Jiren's wish became pointless. And even it was revealed, it would serve no meaning at this stage.

Wouldn’t it have been more impactful for Jiren to win, but having fought Goku, make that realization and wish the universes back himself. That’s better writing and character growth. He would have been he one to have the opportunity to either go back or move forward not having it forced upon him through losing.

Jiren HAD to lose, because he need the teaching that his power isn't absolute and that trust can indeed beat power. He even commented how pointless it was for Freeza to save Goku, but then it was really their co-operation that lead to his defeat.
If Jiren won he would have kept to believe that his way is the right one, and that trust isn't needed when you have absolute strength.

[TheMikado]

Jiren's wish was more of metaphor for his character, in regards to it being selfish. Jiren's main motivation for who he is today was because of his traumatic past and the circumstances of his wish was influenced. And by letting go of his past, and finally moving forward and realising there is more to life the solitude in strength, his wish was discharged as that was in itself tied to past he struggled to let go of. What Jiren's wish was specifically wasn't the important, it's what it represented for his character. He developed as person, understanding the meaning and significance of bonds and friendship, and because of that, Jiren's wish became pointless. And even it was revealed, it would serve no meaning at this stage.

Wouldn’t it have been more impactful for Jiren to win, but having fought Goku, make that realization and wish the universes back himself. That’s better writing and character growth. He would have been he one to have the opportunity to either go back or move forward not having it forced upon him through losing.

Jiren HAD to lose, because he need the teaching that his power isn't absolute and that trust can indeed beat power. He even commented how pointless it was for Freeza to save Goku, but then it was really their co-operation that lead to his defeat.
If Jiren won he would have kept to believe that his way is the right one, and that trust isn't needed when you have absolute strength.

I should rephrase this, the ideal would be for Jiren to lose but get the wish. He’s then given the option to get his wish and live in universe 7 or wish the universes back and makes the decision himself.

[Lord Beerus]

Wouldn’t it have been more impactful for Jiren to win, but having fought Goku, make that realization and wish the universes back himself. That’s better writing and character growth. He would have been he one to have the opportunity to either go back or move forward not having it forced upon him through losing.

Jiren HAD to lose, because he need the teaching that his power isn't absolute and that trust can indeed beat power. He even commented how pointless it was for Freeza to save Goku, but then it was really their co-operation that lead to his defeat.
If Jiren won he would have kept to believe that his way is the right one, and that trust isn't needed when you have absolute strength.

I should rephrase this, the ideal would be for Jiren to lose but get the wish. He’s then given the option to get his wish and live in universe 7 or wish the universes back and makes the decision himself.

Why should Jiren get the wish even though he lost?

[TheMikado]

Jiren HAD to lose, because he need the teaching that his power isn't absolute and that trust can indeed beat power. He even commented how pointless it was for Freeza to save Goku, but then it was really their co-operation that lead to his defeat.
If Jiren won he would have kept to believe that his way is the one, and that trust isn't needed when you have absolute strength.

I should rephrase this, the ideal would be for Jiren to lose but get the wish. He’s then given the option to get his wish and live in universe 7 or wish the universes back and makes the decision himself.

Why should Jiren get the wish even though he lost?

I’d consider him the best fighter since I’m pretty sure that’s what the original winner was supposed to be.

[Lord Beerus]

I should rephrase this, the ideal would be for Jiren to lose but get the wish. He’s then given the option to get his wish and live in universe 7 or wish the universes back and makes the decision himself.

Why should Jiren get the wish even though he lost?

I’d consider him the best fighter since I’m pretty sure that’s what the original winner was supposed to be.

He was far from the best fighter. That honour goes to either #17, Freeza, Goku or Vegeta.

[TheMikado]

Why should Jiren get the wish even though he lost?

I’d consider him the best fighter since I’m pretty sure that’s what the original winner was supposed to be.

He was far from the best fighter. That honour goes to either #17, Freeza, Goku or Vegeta.

Considering he took on multiple of those characters at once on his own I would think that would be debatable.

[Vegeta_Sama]

He was far from the best fighter. That honour goes to either #17, Freeza, Goku or Vegeta.

Exactly. They got their hands dirty for the entirety of the tournament while Jiren was sitting on his ass meditating. He only decided to get involved when he had no other choice

[emperior]

I’d consider him the best fighter since I’m pretty sure that’s what the original winner was supposed to be.

He was far from the best fighter. That honour goes to either #17, Freeza, Goku or Vegeta.

Considering he took on multiple of those characters at once on his own I would think that would be debatable.

It doesn't matter. The tournament was a battle royale and Jiren acted as a lone wolf, while Goku, 17 and Freeza used teamwork to win the whole thing, and each of them had more eliminations than Jiren. Jiren getting the MVP because he has a higher battle power would have been completely stupid and against this tournament's principles.

[TheMikado]

He was far from the best fighter. That honour goes to either #17, Freeza, Goku or Vegeta.

Considering he took on multiple of those characters at once on his own I would think that would be debatable.

It doesn't matter. The tournament was a battle royale and Jiren acted as a lone wolf, while Goku, 17 and Freeza used teamwork to win the whole thing, and each of them had more eliminations than Jiren. Jiren getting the MVP because he has a higher battle power would have been completely stupid and against this tournament's principles.

What were the the principles?

I’m just going by the initial claim the “best” fighter got the wish and we had nothing more than that to go one. So I don’t see why Jiren wouldn’t be in the running if he was the toughest fighter to take down alone.

[lancerman]

I’d consider him the best fighter since I’m pretty sure that’s what the original winner was supposed to be.

He was far from the best fighter. That honour goes to either #17, Freeza, Goku or Vegeta.

Considering he took on multiple of those characters at once on his own I would think that would be debatable.

Jiren sat around for most of the tournament not fighting until
Holy interested him, fight him for a bit and didn’t even bother to ring him out, then sat again until it was him in Toppo vs Goku/Freeza/Gohan/Vegeta. And he only really took out Vegeta of those 3. Aside from that he eliminates Hit and a Universe 3 character. So he has a total 3 eliminations. And you could conceivably argue that his refusal to try to eliminate U7 fighters early cost his team in the end.

By comparison Goku was involved in 16 character eliminations, Freeza was involved in 12, and Vegeta was involved in 14. And those guys weren’t sitting around for all but like 4 minutes of the tournament.

[emperior]

Considering he took on multiple of those characters at once on his own I would think that would be debatable.

It doesn't matter. The tournament was a battle royale and Jiren acted as a lone wolf, while Goku, 17 and Freeza used teamwork to win the whole thing, and each of them had more eliminations than Jiren. Jiren getting the MVP because he has a higher battle power would have been completely stupid and against this tournament's principles.

What were the the principles?

I’m just going by the initial claim the “best” fighter got the wish and we had nothing more than that to go one. So I don’t see why Jiren wouldn’t be in the running if he was the toughest fighter to take down alone.

The tournament's rules were basically created with teamwork in mind, which is why they even allowed potaras to be used. We are also told, at the end, that Zeno wanted the winner to be a virtuous and selfless fighter.
By the way even if what I'm writing may be just my headcanon, one thing is sure: Jiren couldn't have gotten the wish because the universes got erased as soon as they lost, so it would have been unlogical to keep Jiren safe even though his team lost just because he was the strongest fighter in the arena.

And you are basically saying that, hypothetically, you would give a player like Lionel Messi the MVP of a match he lost without even been the highest goalscorer or assistman just because, on paper, he is the best player on the pitch even though the defenders were able to stop him by applying lot of pressure.

In this case the true MVP of the tournament, by your logic, would be Aniraza as it took way more U7 members to take him down.

[MKCSTEALTH]

I feel like the whole "Zeno would have erased everyone had it been a selfish wish" to me made it irrelevant. It was most likely going to be something selfish. Goku was gonna wish Frieza back, Frieza would've wanted power over the gods, 17 wanted a cruise ship for his family originally.

The only one who wasn't selfish was Vegeta. And that says a lot to Super's writing and his progression as a character

[lancerman]

I feel like the whole "Zeno would have erased everyone had it been a selfish wish" to me made it irrelevant. It was most likely going to be something selfish. Goku was gonna wish Frieza back, Frieza would've wanted power over the gods, 17 wanted a cruise ship for his family originally.

The only one who wasn't selfish was Vegeta. And that says a lot to Super's writing and his progression as a character

Goku actually said he’d wish Freeza back with the Earth Dragon Balls regardless

[fadeddreams5]

How is it bad writing? You keep saying Super dropped this plot point when they didn't. They constantly reminded us it has something to do with his past trauma, it was suggested Jiren wanted to erase those past issues in one way or another, with all of his friendship and trust complex, his wish was related to his obsession with the past, but those past issues got resolved in the end, and thus his wish is no longer relevant, as it was part of his issues. Jiren got what he needed and changed for the better. I just have to disagree when you say they forgot about it.

Yeah, nah. That's like them never revealing who Goku Black was, and someone here defending it by claiming it was clearly Zamasu from the present because of all the little hints that were dropped throughout the arc. It's piss poor writing to allude to something important that is literally the driving force behind the main antagonist, and sweeping it under the rug and hoping people forgot.

[Hawk9211]

Jiren HAD to lose, because he need the teaching that his power isn't absolute and that trust can indeed beat power. He even commented how pointless it was for Freeza to save Goku, but then it was really their co-operation that lead to his defeat.
If Jiren won he would have kept to believe that his way is the right one, and that trust isn't needed when you have absolute strength.

I should rephrase this, the ideal would be for Jiren to lose but get the wish. He’s then given the option to get his wish and live in universe 7 or wish the universes back and makes the decision himself.

Why should Jiren get the wish even though he lost?

I think in manga the strongest character will get the wish,unless I am misremembering.

[TheMikado]

I should rephrase this, the ideal would be for Jiren to lose but get the wish. He’s then given the option to get his wish and live in universe 7 or wish the universes back and makes the decision himself.

Why should Jiren get the wish even though he lost?

I think in manga the strongest character will get the wish,unless I am misremembering.

I thought it was “best” fighter for both but I’ll look it up . It could even be possible that the ending is different between the two.

Edit: just checked and beginning of chapter 30 definitely says “strongest fighter”. So it may not be the same in the manga.

Now I’m hyped again.

[Vegeta_Sama]

Why should Jiren get the wish even though he lost?

I think in manga the strongest character will get the wish,unless I am misremembering.

I thought it was “best” fighter for both but I’ll look it up . It could even be possible that the ending is different between the two.

Edit: just checked and beginning of chapter 30 definitely says “strongest fighter”. So it may not be the same in the manga.

Now I’m hyped again.

Don't get your hopes up. Something as important as the ending of an arc is written in Toriyama's outlines, and we know that they are only allowed to change details, but they can't dare to touch important plot points. The winner of the ToP seems like an important plot point to me.

[TheMikado]

I think in manga the strongest character will get the wish,unless I am misremembering.

I thought it was “best” fighter for both but I’ll look it up . It could even be possible that the ending is different between the two.

Edit: just checked and beginning of chapter 30 definitely says “strongest fighter”. So it may not be the same in the manga.

Now I’m hyped again.

Don't get your hopes up. Something as important as the ending of an arc is written in Toriyama's outlines, and we know that they are only allowed to change details, but they can't dare to touch important plot points. The winner of the ToP seems like an important plot point to me.

I’m hoping it’s something general like

“Goku loses but universes get wished back anyway”

Ideally I think Jiren should have won and gotten the wish so I’ll hang onto hope for now.
17 winning wasn’t bad but not really organic for me.

[PFM18]

Jiren's wish was more of metaphor for his character, in regards to it being selfish. Jiren's main motivation for who he is today was because of his traumatic past and the circumstances of his wish was influenced. And by letting go of his past, and finally moving forward and realising there is more to life the solitude in strength, his wish was discharged as that was in itself tied to past he struggled to let go of. What Jiren's wish was specifically wasn't the important, it's what it represented for his character. He developed as person, understanding the meaning and significance of bonds and friendship, and because of that, Jiren's wish became pointless. And even it was revealed, it would serve no meaning at this stage.

Wouldn’t it have been more impactful for Jiren to win, but having fought Goku, make that realization and wish the universes back himself. That’s better writing and character growth. He would have been he one to have the opportunity to either go back or move forward not having it forced upon him through losing.

So it would have been more impactful if Goku's form that was introduced in concept 100 episodes prior, the same form that he fought to burst through his limits and harness this new ability throughout the tournament, for him to have this form be hyped up in marketing and throughout the tournament...Just for Goku to lose anyway?

[Koitsukai]

To be fair, the anime never hyped Jiren's wish as the manga is doing. Probably the manga will provide the answer.