5 cells over 4 timelines.

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TobyS
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5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by TobyS » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:51 pm

Does there have to be a Cell who time travelled into the past of the Trunks timeline? As well as the one that emerged naturally?

Was watching this annoying video again:
https://youtu.be/lh58fPJtfR4

How did he get there/which timeline did he come from.
He can't have got there by being duplicated because no one travelled back further than the gestating Cell did...
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by Terra-jin » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:26 pm

Qaaman follows the assumption that a jump to the past creates a single new timeline (as opposed to creating a copy of each currently existing timeline). Under that assumption, you can end up with a number of individuals different from the number of timelines (so 5 Cells from 4 timelines).

So the Trunks from the History of Trunks (HoT) timeline creates a copy from that timeline. Since it already contained a Cell, buried underground, he was copied along with it. So that jump created the extra (fifth) Cell.

The idea that jumps to the past create a copy of each currently existing timeline avoids this problem; since the "extra" Cell would always be accompanied with an extra timeline from where he would have come. There'd always be an equal number of individuals and timelines.
It's all GOOD

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by Desassina » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:27 pm

Follow this one instead:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

It's very simple in what it does: to take the two timelines we know for granted and to assume what happened in the other two.

1. Blue Timeline (from past to future): Trunks showed up around the time of the androids' release and he knew the lab's whereabouts due to the green timeline that he came from. He stole the blueprints and destroyed Cell in baby form so that he didn't exist in this timeline. In the future, Trunks of the blue timeline will have departed to warn Goku about the androids of the green one, and returned to be killed by the others.

2. Green Timeline (from past to future): Trunks kills Freeza and King Cold, warns Goku and goes back to the future of the blue timeline to be killed by the androids, so that he doesn't return by the time the green line ones are released against the humans. The world becomes chaotic again, but Bulma knows the lab's whereabouts this time, and so she sends Trunks to the past to steal the remote blueprints. They deactivate the androids and Cell kills Trunks before departing.

The rest is pretty standard, and by placing the future of Trunks last, the one who succeeded, we can go to Super with comfort, in order to continue this idea.

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by Ricardolindo » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:36 pm

TobyS wrote:Does there have to be a Cell who time travelled into the past of the Trunks timeline? As well as the one that emerged naturally?

Was watching this annoying video again:
https://youtu.be/lh58fPJtfR4

How did he get there/which timeline did he come from.
He can't have got there by being duplicated because no one travelled back further than the gestating Cell did...
What Qaaman indicated during the video was that Cell, somehow, directly created Future Trunks's timeline. And, yes, that's true, he did, but he did not travel to it.
Thing is, the Trunks of Cell's timeline (T3) traveled to the past, age 764, creating the unseen timeline (T4). There he killed T4 Frieza and T4 King Cold, warned T4 Goku about the cyborgs and gave him the heart medicine. Then, he returned to T3 and waited eight months, then he went to T4 again, to age 767, there he and the T4 Z Fighters defeated the T4 Androids, probably with the remote control. Then, T3 Trunks returned to T3 and defeated the T3 Androis, probably with the remote control. Three years later, he planned to go to T4, one last time, to tell, the T4 Z Fighters, he had defeated the T3 Androids however T3 Cell appeared, killed him and took his time machine that, for some reason, was programmed to go to age age 763, one year before T3 Trunks's first travel, thus creating one more timeline, the main one, (T1). It was, already, destined for T1 to be modified by a Trunks from a future timeline thus one more timeline was created (T2) due to the different things Trunks would find in his time time travel, such as knowledge about Cell's existence, that made him get stronger and able to kill T2 Cell.

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by Ricardolindo » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:16 pm

Terra-jin wrote:Qaaman follows the assumption that a jump to the past creates a single new timeline (as opposed to creating a copy of each currently existing timeline). Under that assumption, you can end up with a number of individuals different from the number of timelines (so 5 Cells from 4 timelines).

So the Trunks from the History of Trunks (HoT) timeline creates a copy from that timeline. Since it already contained a Cell, buried underground, he was copied along with it. So that jump created the extra (fifth) Cell.

The idea that jumps to the past create a copy of each currently existing timeline avoids this problem; since the "extra" Cell would always be accompanied with an extra timeline from where he would have come. There'd always be an equal number of individuals and timelines.
Such an idea makes no sense.

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by Ricardolindo » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:16 pm

Desassina wrote:Follow this one instead:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

It's very simple in what it does: to take the two timelines we know for granted and to assume what happened in the other two.

1. Blue Timeline (from past to future): Trunks showed up around the time of the androids' release and he knew the lab's whereabouts due to the green timeline that he came from. He stole the blueprints and destroyed Cell in baby form so that he didn't exist in this timeline. In the future, Trunks of the blue timeline will have departed to warn Goku about the androids of the green one, and returned to be killed by the others.

2. Green Timeline (from past to future): Trunks kills Freeza and King Cold, warns Goku and goes back to the future of the blue timeline to be killed by the androids, so that he doesn't return by the time the green line ones are released against the humans. The world becomes chaotic again, but Bulma knows the lab's whereabouts this time, and so she sends Trunks to the past to steal the remote blueprints. They deactivate the androids and Cell kills Trunks before departing.

The rest is pretty standard, and by placing the future of Trunks last, the one who succeeded, we can go to Super with comfort, in order to continue this idea.
Such a theory is too much complex and requires lots of stange explanations.

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by Doctor. » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:57 pm

Desassina wrote:Follow this one instead:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

It's very simple in what it does: to take the two timelines we know for granted and to assume what happened in the other two.

1. Blue Timeline (from past to future): Trunks showed up around the time of the androids' release and he knew the lab's whereabouts due to the green timeline that he came from. He stole the blueprints and destroyed Cell in baby form so that he didn't exist in this timeline. In the future, Trunks of the blue timeline will have departed to warn Goku about the androids of the green one, and returned to be killed by the others.

2. Green Timeline (from past to future): Trunks kills Freeza and King Cold, warns Goku and goes back to the future of the blue timeline to be killed by the androids, so that he doesn't return by the time the green line ones are released against the humans. The world becomes chaotic again, but Bulma knows the lab's whereabouts this time, and so she sends Trunks to the past to steal the remote blueprints. They deactivate the androids and Cell kills Trunks before departing.

The rest is pretty standard, and by placing the future of Trunks last, the one who succeeded, we can go to Super with comfort, in order to continue this idea.
What's the impetus that makes Trunks change his mind and go to the past in the purple one in comparison to the green one? The existence of Trunks' timeline doesn't make much sense, it doesn't seem to have been created by any other event.

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by Ricardolindo » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:46 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Desassina wrote:Follow this one instead:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

It's very simple in what it does: to take the two timelines we know for granted and to assume what happened in the other two.

1. Blue Timeline (from past to future): Trunks showed up around the time of the androids' release and he knew the lab's whereabouts due to the green timeline that he came from. He stole the blueprints and destroyed Cell in baby form so that he didn't exist in this timeline. In the future, Trunks of the blue timeline will have departed to warn Goku about the androids of the green one, and returned to be killed by the others.

2. Green Timeline (from past to future): Trunks kills Freeza and King Cold, warns Goku and goes back to the future of the blue timeline to be killed by the androids, so that he doesn't return by the time the green line ones are released against the humans. The world becomes chaotic again, but Bulma knows the lab's whereabouts this time, and so she sends Trunks to the past to steal the remote blueprints. They deactivate the androids and Cell kills Trunks before departing.

The rest is pretty standard, and by placing the future of Trunks last, the one who succeeded, we can go to Super with comfort, in order to continue this idea.
What's the impetus that makes Trunks change his mind and go to the past in the purple one in comparison to the green one? The existence of Trunks' timeline doesn't make much sense, it doesn't seem to have been created by any other event.
Future Trunks's timeline was created by Cell's time travel. Thing is, the Trunks of Cell's timeline (T3) traveled to the past, age 764, creating the unseen timeline (T4). There he killed T4 Frieza and T4 King Cold, warned T4 Goku about the cyborgs and gave him the heart medicine. Then, he returned to T3 and waited eight months, then he went to T4 again, to age 767, there he and the T4 Z Fighters defeated the T4 Androids, probably with the remote control. Then, T3 Trunks returned to T3 and defeated the T3 Androis, probably with the remote control. Three years later, he planned to go to T4, one last time, to tell, the T4 Z Fighters, he had defeated the T3 Androids however T3 Cell appeared, killed him and took his time machine that, for some reason, went to age 763, one year before T3 Trunks's first travel, thus creating one more timeline, the main one, (T1). It was, already, destined for T1 to be modified by a Trunks from a future timeline thus one more timeline was created (T2) due to the different things Trunks would find in his time time travel, such as knowledge about Cell's existence, that made him get stronger and able to kill T2 Cell.

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by Doctor. » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:54 pm

Ricardolindo wrote:Future Trunks's timeline was created by Cell's time travel. Thing is, the Trunks of Cell's timeline (T3) traveled to the past, age 764, creating the unseen timeline (T4). There he killed T4 Frieza and T4 King Cold, warned T4 Goku about the cyborgs and gave him the heart medicine. Then, he returned to T3 and waited eight months, then he went to T4 again, to age 767, there he and the T4 Z Fighters defeated the T4 Androids, probably with the remote control. Then, T3 Trunks returned to T3 and defeated the T3 Androis, probably with the remote control. Three years later, he planned to go to T4, one last time, to tell, the T4 Z Fighters, he had defeated the T3 Androids however T3 Cell appeared, killed him and took his time machine that, for some reason, went to age 763, one year before T3 Trunks's first travel, thus creating one more timeline, the main one, (T1). It was, already, destined for T1 to be modified by a Trunks from a future timeline thus one more timeline was created (T2) due to the different things Trunks would find in his time time travel, such as knowledge about Cell's existence, that made him get stronger and able to kill T2 Cell.
Yeah, I follow along until Cell goes back. I just don't see how Cell going back would create future Trunks' timeline. The events in Cell's timeline are finished, the 'present' timeline is the unseen one Trunks creates and 'our' timeline is the one Cell creates. "Destiny" would be Goku killing Freeza and Cold and dying from the heart disease since all the timelines follow the same history until it's changed; it wasn't destined for a Trunks to come back to the past since his trip (and Cell's) is an external factor that isn't a part of history. I don't see how this second future Trunks can exist considering the events in the future all already happened in Cell's timeline; Trunks' time travel would lead him to the 'unseen' timeline.

Original: Goku dies, androids attack, Trunks gets time machine, Cell kills him (T1);
Changed 1: Trunks comes back, deactivates androids (T2);
Changed 2: Cell comes back one year earlier, the events we know happen (T3);

There's no space for a fourth timeline (an 'Original 2') consisting of Trunks' timeline. Logically what should have happened is Goku dying and Cell awakening around the same time to absorb the androids. Trunks can't come back because all his trips lead to T2 and he already died in T1 so he can't make any further trips. So where is he coming from? Trunks can't be predestined to come to a 'present' timeline regardless because T3 splits off from T2 the moment Cell arrives, so from that moment forth, their futures are no longer tied together. Trunks will only arrive in T2 and not in T3 as well because he can't be in two timelines at once.

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by Ricardolindo » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:05 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Ricardolindo wrote:Future Trunks's timeline was created by Cell's time travel. Thing is, the Trunks of Cell's timeline (T3) traveled to the past, age 764, creating the unseen timeline (T4). There he killed T4 Frieza and T4 King Cold, warned T4 Goku about the cyborgs and gave him the heart medicine. Then, he returned to T3 and waited eight months, then he went to T4 again, to age 767, there he and the T4 Z Fighters defeated the T4 Androids, probably with the remote control. Then, T3 Trunks returned to T3 and defeated the T3 Androis, probably with the remote control. Three years later, he planned to go to T4, one last time, to tell, the T4 Z Fighters, he had defeated the T3 Androids however T3 Cell appeared, killed him and took his time machine that, for some reason, went to age 763, one year before T3 Trunks's first travel, thus creating one more timeline, the main one, (T1). It was, already, destined for T1 to be modified by a Trunks from a future timeline thus one more timeline was created (T2) due to the different things Trunks would find in his time time travel, such as knowledge about Cell's existence, that made him get stronger and able to kill T2 Cell.
Yeah, I follow along until Cell goes back. I just don't see how Cell going back would create future Trunks' timeline. The events in Cell's timeline are finished, the 'present' timeline is the unseen one Trunks creates and 'our' timeline is the one Cell creates. "Destiny" would be Goku killing Freeza and Cold and dying from the heart disease since all the timelines follow the same history until it's changed; it wasn't destined for a Trunks to come back to the past since his trip (and Cell's) is an external factor that isn't a part of history. I don't see how this second future Trunks can exist considering the events in the future all already happened in Cell's timeline; Trunks' time travel would lead him to the 'unseen' timeline.

Original: Goku dies, androids attack, Trunks gets time machine, Cell kills him (T1);
Changed 1: Trunks comes back, deactivates androids (T2);
Changed 2: Cell comes back one year earlier, the events we know happen (T3);

There's no space for a fourth timeline (an 'Original 2') consisting of Trunks' timeline. Logically what should have happened is Goku dying and Cell awakening around the same time to absorb the androids. Trunks can't come back because all his trips lead to T2 and he already died in T1 so he can't make any further trips. So where is he coming from? Trunks can't be predestined to come to a 'present' timeline regardless because T3 splits off from T2 the moment Cell arrives, so from that moment forth, their futures are no longer tied together. Trunks will only arrive in T2 and not in T3 as well because he can't be in two timelines at once.


Cipher said in 2015, in viewtopic.php?t=34360: "It can be helpful, too, to think of Cell's time travel not creating the alternate future, but the alternate past, which then influences Trunks' future.

Basically, Cell traveling back earlier than Trunks creates a splinter timeline -- which I think we're all okay with. But since most things are the same, that past is destined to be visited by Trunks just as the original was. What happens to the Trunks who visits this newly altered past? Obviously his future is going to deviate as well, due to his familiarity with Cell, and all the other butterfly-effect changes of another time traveler in the past."

I, also, remember reading once that Cell by traveling in time further than Trunks had, he traveled to the past of "a new history" that has Trunks arriving in it.

I should add that this might, also, have to do with the time machine's design flaw that caused time distortions and created alternate timelines, it's possible that due to the time machine's design, all its previous travels are bound to happen, if you travel further to the past than you had before.

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by Speedster » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:16 pm

TobyS wrote:Was watching this annoying video again: https://youtu.be/lh58fPJtfR4
According to Qaaman’s theory there are four timelines: T1 unseen timeline, T2 original timeline, T3 History of Trunks timeline, and T4 Main timeline. There is a Cell native to each of the four timelines: T1 Cell, T2 Cell, T3 Cell, T4 Cell. Now here is the (slightly) tricky part of the “fifth Cell”. T2 Cell time travelled to T3 but then T3 Trunks’ traveled to the past and split T3 at a timepoint ahead of T2 Cell’s arrival at T3. Thus, the resulting T4, which is identical to T3 up to the point of splitting, contains a duplicated T2 Cell.

If you are interested I have my own timeline theory however which has no contradictions to what is stated in the manga.

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by Doctor. » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:34 pm

Ricardolindo wrote:I, also, remember reading once that Cell by traveling in time further than Trunks had, he traveled to the past of "a new history" that has Trunks arriving in it.
But that doesn't make sense. Cell would be travelling to this 'new history' if he came after Trunks had already arrived. By coming before Trunks, he should be effectively preventing Trunks from coming back at all. He is forever dooming Trunks to always arrive in the other present timeline, in a sense.
Ricardolindo wrote:But since most things are the same, that past is destined to be visited by Trunks just as the original was. What happens to the Trunks who visits this newly altered past? Obviously his future is going to deviate as well,
But that would mean that Trunks is in two different (present) timelines at the same time, since, following that logic, the future timelines would only split the moment Trunks returns to the future. Obviously Trunks can't be at two places at once.

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:14 pm

Ricardolindo wrote:
Desassina wrote:Follow this one instead:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

It's very simple in what it does: to take the two timelines we know for granted and to assume what happened in the other two.

1. Blue Timeline (from past to future): Trunks showed up around the time of the androids' release and he knew the lab's whereabouts due to the green timeline that he came from. He stole the blueprints and destroyed Cell in baby form so that he didn't exist in this timeline. In the future, Trunks of the blue timeline will have departed to warn Goku about the androids of the green one, and returned to be killed by the others.

2. Green Timeline (from past to future): Trunks kills Freeza and King Cold, warns Goku and goes back to the future of the blue timeline to be killed by the androids, so that he doesn't return by the time the green line ones are released against the humans. The world becomes chaotic again, but Bulma knows the lab's whereabouts this time, and so she sends Trunks to the past to steal the remote blueprints. They deactivate the androids and Cell kills Trunks before departing.

The rest is pretty standard, and by placing the future of Trunks last, the one who succeeded, we can go to Super with comfort, in order to continue this idea.
Such a theory is too much complex and requires lots of stange explanations.
You want a complex timetravel explanations go watch Doctor Who with River Song, that's one is complexe Ricardolindo. Desassina can you add also Black stuff in your graphic this one is a bit medling in my head.
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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by AvatarReiko » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:43 am

Doctor. wrote:
Ricardolindo wrote:Future Trunks's timeline was created by Cell's time travel. Thing is, the Trunks of Cell's timeline (T3) traveled to the past, age 764, creating the unseen timeline (T4). There he killed T4 Frieza and T4 King Cold, warned T4 Goku about the cyborgs and gave him the heart medicine. Then, he returned to T3 and waited eight months, then he went to T4 again, to age 767, there he and the T4 Z Fighters defeated the T4 Androids, probably with the remote control. Then, T3 Trunks returned to T3 and defeated the T3 Androis, probably with the remote control. Three years later, he planned to go to T4, one last time, to tell, the T4 Z Fighters, he had defeated the T3 Androids however T3 Cell appeared, killed him and took his time machine that, for some reason, went to age 763, one year before T3 Trunks's first travel, thus creating one more timeline, the main one, (T1). It was, already, destined for T1 to be modified by a Trunks from a future timeline thus one more timeline was created (T2) due to the different things Trunks would find in his time time travel, such as knowledge about Cell's existence, that made him get stronger and able to kill T2 Cell.
Yeah, I follow along until Cell goes back. I just don't see how Cell going back would create future Trunks' timeline. The events in Cell's timeline are finished, the 'present' timeline is the unseen one Trunks creates and 'our' timeline is the one Cell creates. "Destiny" would be Goku killing Freeza and Cold and dying from the heart disease since all the timelines follow the same history until it's changed; it wasn't destined for a Trunks to come back to the past since his trip (and Cell's) is an external factor that isn't a part of history. I don't see how this second future Trunks can exist considering the events in the future all already happened in Cell's timeline; Trunks' time travel would lead him to the 'unseen' timeline.

Original: Goku dies, androids attack, Trunks gets time machine, Cell kills him (T1);
Changed 1: Trunks comes back, deactivates androids (T2);
Changed 2: Cell comes back one year earlier, the events we know happen (T3);

There's no space for a fourth timeline (an 'Original 2') consisting of Trunks' timeline. Logically what should have happened is Goku dying and Cell awakening around the same time to absorb the androids. Trunks can't come back because all his trips lead to T2 and he already died in T1 so he can't make any further trips. So where is he coming from? Trunks can't be predestined to come to a 'present' timeline regardless because T3 splits off from T2 the moment Cell arrives, so from that moment forth, their futures are no longer tied together. Trunks will only arrive in T2 and not in T3 as well because he can't be in two timelines at once.
Our Future Trunks' timeline only diverges because Trunks had become strong enough in the past(by training in ROSAT, which was partly due to Cell's appearance) to kill Cell in his future. Originally. Trunks(the one Cell killed) presumably defeated 17 and 18 with the remote but was then killed by Cell, who then took his time machine to past, causing the timeline to branch off into a new tangent, which is is the timeline the series follows.

Basically, Trunks timeline is the same as Cell's up until the moment Trunks kills Cell.
Doctor. wrote: But that doesn't make sense. Cell would be travelling to this 'new history' if he came after Trunks had already arrived. By coming before Trunks, he should be effectively preventing Trunks from coming back at all. He is forever dooming Trunks to always arrive in the other present timeline, in a sense..
No. When Cell went to the past, he immediately went into hibernation and stayed dormant for 3 years. Hence, he did not cause any changes to timeline. Events would naturally proceed as they originally did(e.g. Trunks travelling to the past and killing Frieza and etc). It is only when Cell emerged and started his killing spree in Ginger Town did the timelines start to deviate massively. The Z-warriors' attention shifted entirely onto Cell and he became the main threat, not the Cyborgs.

In the original iteration(the unseen timeline), Cell wasn't there, so the characters would be focused on the threat of 17 and 18. Presumably, Trunks(and maybe Krillin) still found the blueprints in Gero's lab. which enabled Bulma to build the remote. Trunks then returned to the future and defeated the Cyborgs using the remote.

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by Doctor. » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:36 am

AvatarReiko wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Ricardolindo wrote:Future Trunks's timeline was created by Cell's time travel. Thing is, the Trunks of Cell's timeline (T3) traveled to the past, age 764, creating the unseen timeline (T4). There he killed T4 Frieza and T4 King Cold, warned T4 Goku about the cyborgs and gave him the heart medicine. Then, he returned to T3 and waited eight months, then he went to T4 again, to age 767, there he and the T4 Z Fighters defeated the T4 Androids, probably with the remote control. Then, T3 Trunks returned to T3 and defeated the T3 Androis, probably with the remote control. Three years later, he planned to go to T4, one last time, to tell, the T4 Z Fighters, he had defeated the T3 Androids however T3 Cell appeared, killed him and took his time machine that, for some reason, went to age 763, one year before T3 Trunks's first travel, thus creating one more timeline, the main one, (T1). It was, already, destined for T1 to be modified by a Trunks from a future timeline thus one more timeline was created (T2) due to the different things Trunks would find in his time time travel, such as knowledge about Cell's existence, that made him get stronger and able to kill T2 Cell.
Yeah, I follow along until Cell goes back. I just don't see how Cell going back would create future Trunks' timeline. The events in Cell's timeline are finished, the 'present' timeline is the unseen one Trunks creates and 'our' timeline is the one Cell creates. "Destiny" would be Goku killing Freeza and Cold and dying from the heart disease since all the timelines follow the same history until it's changed; it wasn't destined for a Trunks to come back to the past since his trip (and Cell's) is an external factor that isn't a part of history. I don't see how this second future Trunks can exist considering the events in the future all already happened in Cell's timeline; Trunks' time travel would lead him to the 'unseen' timeline.

Original: Goku dies, androids attack, Trunks gets time machine, Cell kills him (T1);
Changed 1: Trunks comes back, deactivates androids (T2);
Changed 2: Cell comes back one year earlier, the events we know happen (T3);

There's no space for a fourth timeline (an 'Original 2') consisting of Trunks' timeline. Logically what should have happened is Goku dying and Cell awakening around the same time to absorb the androids. Trunks can't come back because all his trips lead to T2 and he already died in T1 so he can't make any further trips. So where is he coming from? Trunks can't be predestined to come to a 'present' timeline regardless because T3 splits off from T2 the moment Cell arrives, so from that moment forth, their futures are no longer tied together. Trunks will only arrive in T2 and not in T3 as well because he can't be in two timelines at once.
Our Future Trunks' timeline only diverges because Trunks had become strong enough in the past(by training in ROSAT, which was partly due to Cell's appearance) to kill Cell in his future. Originally. Trunks(the one Cell killed) presumably defeated 17 and 18 with the remote but was then killed by Cell, who then took his time machine to past, causing the timeline to branch off into a new tangent, which is is the timeline the series follows.

Basically, Trunks timeline is the same as Cell's up until the moment Trunks kills Cell.
Doctor. wrote: But that doesn't make sense. Cell would be travelling to this 'new history' if he came after Trunks had already arrived. By coming before Trunks, he should be effectively preventing Trunks from coming back at all. He is forever dooming Trunks to always arrive in the other present timeline, in a sense..
No. When Cell went to the past, he immediately went into hibernation and stayed dormant for 3 years. Hence, he did not cause any changes to timeline. Events would naturally proceed as they originally did(e.g. Trunks travelling to the past and killing Frieza and etc). It is only when Cell emerged and started his killing spree in Ginger Town did the timelines start to deviate massively. The Z-warriors' attention shifted entirely onto Cell and he became the main threat, not the Cyborgs.

In the original iteration(the unseen timeline), Cell wasn't there, so the characters would be focused on the threat of 17 and 18. Presumably, Trunks(and maybe Krillin) still found the blueprints in Gero's lab. which enabled Bulma to build the remote. Trunks then returned to the future and defeated the Cyborgs using the remote.
But this only works if we work under the assumption that timelines split when a major change is made (Super's version), which sure, it fits, but it's a bit arbitrary of a rule compared to the viewpoint that they split whenever someone travels to the past, which is how we've conducted these discussions for years now.

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shadowfox87
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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by shadowfox87 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:33 pm

Qaaman's video is outdated. There are things that are not explained properly such as the Unseen timeline. I did attempt to explain it here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40823

Check it out. It incorporates everything from DBS, DBZ, and official source material to make sense without contradicting anything. Also, I would go by the latest information for how timelines work as per Super. For a long time, we thought that timelines split each time a person travels to the past but that is simply not the case anymore. They split when there's a significant change.
Last edited by shadowfox87 on Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42062
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610
Science of Ultra Instinct: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40707

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by TobyS » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:44 pm

shadowfox87 wrote:Qaaman's video is outdated. There are things that are explained properly such as the Unseen timeline. I did attempt to explain it here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40823

Check it out. It incorporates everything from DBS, DBZ, and official source material to make sense without contradicting anything. Also, I would go by the latest information for how timelines work as per Super. For a long time, we thought that timelines split each time a person travels to the past but that is simply not the case anymore. They split when there's a significant change.

Can you cite a source for the “only significant changes make new timelines” thing?

I wanted to get my head round the cell timelines before looking at the black arc ones.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by shadowfox87 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:59 pm

TobyS wrote:
shadowfox87 wrote:Qaaman's video is outdated. There are things that are explained properly such as the Unseen timeline. I did attempt to explain it here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40823

Check it out. It incorporates everything from DBS, DBZ, and official source material to make sense without contradicting anything. Also, I would go by the latest information for how timelines work as per Super. For a long time, we thought that timelines split each time a person travels to the past but that is simply not the case anymore. They split when there's a significant change.

Can you cite a source for the “only significant changes make new timelines” thing?

I wanted to get my head round the cell timelines before looking at the black arc ones.
Well, there's no explicit written source. It's all based on the fact that a new time ring was only created after Beerus hakai'd Zamasu (Chapter 20, page 5 of manga and Episode 59 of anime). It was not created when Trunks went back into the past. We saw Gowasu open the box with the time rings after Trunks had gone to the past (Chapter 17, page 9 in manga and Episode 49 of anime). Gowasu said a new time ring was created a few years ago (the last time Trunks used the time machine in the Cell Saga). Hence, there was 4 green time rings and 1 silver ring. Hence, by deduction, after knowing that each time ring represents a timeline, it means that new timelines or splits only occur after a significant change rather than simply traveling to the past or future. The significant change hypothesis also explains the Unseen timeline which was never able to be explained before if going by the previous theory.
DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42062
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610
Science of Ultra Instinct: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40707

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:06 pm

I had always figured there were three timelines, which equaled out to 3 Cells.

Timeline 1: the Present
Timeline 2: Future Trunks Timeline
Timeline 3: Cell's Timeline

Cell #1: Present Timeline. Still a fetus(?), had yet to develop, was killed when they destroyed Geros lab
Cell #2: Cell from Trunk's Timeline. This Cell developed and grew, but before he could absorb the Androids, Trunks had returned from the past and killed them. This Cell was killed by Trunks in the last episodes of the Cell arc
Cell #3: Perfect Cell. This is the Cell from a timeline where Trunks returned after delivering the heart medicine, SOMEHOW killed the Androids, and was going to return to the past to meet with Goku and the others to tell of his victory, but was killed at the hands of this Cell, who would steal the time machine and go back to the past, eventually absorbing 17/18, become the big bad of the arc, and be killed by Gohan.

Where's the other timeline and 2 other Cells from?

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Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by shadowfox87 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:29 pm

MKCSTEALTH wrote:I had always figured there were three timelines, which equaled out to 3 Cells.

Timeline 1: the Present
Timeline 2: Future Trunks Timeline
Timeline 3: Cell's Timeline

Cell #1: Present Timeline. Still a fetus(?), had yet to develop, was killed when they destroyed Geros lab
Cell #2: Cell from Trunk's Timeline. This Cell developed and grew, but before he could absorb the Androids, Trunks had returned from the past and killed them. This Cell was killed by Trunks in the last episodes of the Cell arc
Cell #3: Perfect Cell. This is the Cell from a timeline where Trunks returned after delivering the heart medicine, SOMEHOW killed the Androids, and was going to return to the past to meet with Goku and the others to tell of his victory, but was killed at the hands of this Cell, who would steal the time machine and go back to the past, eventually absorbing 17/18, become the big bad of the arc, and be killed by Gohan.

Where's the other timeline and 2 other Cells from?
There are four timelines as per the Daizenshuu 7 in DBZ before DBS. Your numbering is correct for both timelines and Cells. Timeline 4 is the Unseen timeline in which there is a Cell Games without Trunks. In this timeline, Trunks finds the blueprints for Androids 17 and 18 in the basement lab with Krillin. He doesn't stay and takes those blueprints back to his timeline (where he gets killed by Cell). The Unseen timeline was the hardest to explain with logic because it would never fit since it required another Cell. I've explained it here however: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40823
Basically the Cell#3 got split after Trunks decided to stay in one timeline and not the other. Btw, to answer your "SOMEHOW killed the Androids", we already know. In Timeline#2, Trunks kills Cell and the Androids with his own power while in Timeline#3, the Androids are killed via the remote controller that Future Bulma created from the blueprints Trunks brought back from the past. The Trunks from Timeline#3 never trained in Hyperbolic Time chamber so was killed by Cell.
DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42062
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610
Science of Ultra Instinct: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40707

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