FUNimation really butchered the pronunciation of Tapion's name

[Gaffer Tape]

But what if the Dub writers were told to "punch it up?" Take the Digimon Movie as an example I am sure some boss said "make it so it is 90's extreme!" I recall Sabet saying a lot of their "punching up" was executive meddling. So their job was to add jokes and make it "Americanized."
Whether it is JPN or Uncut Funi Dub Son Goku is still Son Goku. A generally nice, sometimes naive alien who gets his rocks off by fighting. One side may have played up his nice persona more so than the other side but we all know who Son Goku is. As for Tapion maybe the translator and writers didn't understand the puns but I doubt they are bad writers. (For example, how or what is a "Nappa" and how is it a Veggie?)
If you're a writer you either got the job because A) you can clearly write or B) you blew the right boss. Either way the Uncut Funi Dub of Movie 13 is entertaining so the writers can't be blamed, they did their job. Also many have different takes on funny, I for example get a giggle out of "we need... balls!" But someone else may not and thus prefer the JPN Dub. Hell we have seen time and time again that many on here don't appreaciate Dragon Ball's (original) toilet humor.
But I think in the end "Tapion" works because it has the "tap" sound of "tapioca" and still sounds alien which Tapion is.

It feels a bit like you're shifting the goalposts here. My statement of "bad writers" (assuming you're responding to that) was in response to your assertion that sticking too close to the real lines results in a bland dialogue. But now you're defending against that statement as being used to refer to the loose writing on FUNimation's older dubs? You're losing me a bit here.

As for your initial question, I don't really see the distinction here. So someone else made the decision? What difference does that make? Whether it was writer A, head honcho executive, or janitorial staff who made the decision, the product remains the same.

[GTx10]

Hell we have seen time and time again that many on here don't appreaciate Dragon Ball's (original) toilet humor.

So? The job of a dub isn't to decide what they think is funny. It's to translate the dialog and make changes that keep the intent of the writer. Obviously the exact joke might not work, so the job is then to come up with a joke that's in keeping with the spirit of the original. In the case of Kaio, his humor is pun based. Toilet humor isn't for everyone, but it is what Toriyama wrote. The little changes add up, to the point where not everyone knows Goku isn't a Japanese Superman.

If the translators don't understand a rather obvious pun like Tapion, it's their job to find out. Given Toriyama's proclivities for naming characters after food, one would think the name and the pronunciation should be obvious.

putting in extra dialogue and explanations

Not sure what you mean by extra explanations.

And I am saying it is. Granted I am assuming yes, but if on the off hand Sabet was told by the higher ups to "punch it up" for whatever reason then Funimation did their job. The translator merely translates, it isn't his or her job to research the nuances of Toriyama's puns and writing style unless otherwise stated in their contracts. Getting into all detail is just going above and beyond ones job.
Again in the case of Movie 13 the plot of "Link vs Godzilla" (basically) is clear and cut regardless of Dub and you and everyone else knows that. Also yes I am fully aware of the "Goku is Superman" connections but almost any and every Superhero/super human, Japanese or American are all knock offs of Supermen in one form or another. Hell DB Minus turned Goku's origins into Superman's origins (Or so people say anyway)
I have also given an minor example of how "American Goku" is a slightly better character. So is "Tapion" wrong? Perhaps, but maybe its a tapioca pun none of us are aware of, a Texas thing perhaps? Who truly knows. But in the end "Tapion" is the character's " butchered" name.

[Gaffer Tape]

The translator merely translates, it isn't his or her job to research the nuances of Toriyama's puns and writing style unless otherwise stated in their contracts. Getting into all detail is just going above and beyond ones job.

Okay, I'm sorry, but what? Knowing the meaning of words is beyond the job of a translator? I beg to differ. That is the very core of translating. Understanding the concepts, and, yes, having to do research is something translators do on a very, very regular basis. And if they're not, they're not doing their jobs competently.

And just to be clear, I'm not saying translators get it right every time. Sometimes people make mistakes, look in the wrong places, make incorrect assumptions. It happens. I get it. I sympathize. Some of these things can be obscure. But going from that to, "Eh, they shouldn't even be bothered to have the slightest idea what they're talking about," while in the same breath arguing, "They should just use their best judgment to make up whatever the hell they want," is a mindset I can't fathom. How can you trust them to be able to do the latter if they haven't put in any effort to figure out the former?

I highly recommend you check out Legends of Localization. It is a site run by Clyde Mandelin, not only a professional video game translator but the guy who did the subtitles for Dragon Ball. It will give you quite a better insight into how involving a process translating actually is.

[GTx10]

Because most people do their job "half-assed." Should they? No of course not but it happens. But I am sticking within my argument that perhaps it was their job to "punch up the dialogue." If it was then that destroys the "it is not their job to "punch up the dialogue" argument, a point I can not fathom because that seems silly.
Because by that logic then the Other World Tournament arc, the wedding dress arc, and the Garlic Jr. arc are "punching it up" because they are adding dialogue, and such to the original Manga. It isn't the Anime's job to "add, punch up, spice up, and etc" but rather follow the Manga to a perfect T. Now doesn't that sound silly? But that is what some are implying what with this Funi dialogue debate.

[KBABZ]

I think what GTx10 is trying to suggest is that Toei or someone else in Japan gave them the go-ahead to alter the script. Which I personally disagree with, we would have heard about that by now as a defense FUNimation have given out.

The translator merely translates, it isn't his or her job to research the nuances of Toriyama's puns and writing style unless otherwise stated in their contracts. Getting into all detail is just going above and beyond ones job.

No, it's doing their job properly. A translator exists to make a work from one language and culture understandable to another, which doesn't happen if you fundamentally change the intent of the original work.

[GTx10]

I think what GTx10 is trying to suggest is that Toei or someone else in Japan gave them the go-ahead to alter the script. Which I personally disagree with, we would have heard about that by now as a defense FUNimation have given out.

The translator merely translates, it isn't his or her job to research the nuances of Toriyama's puns and writing style unless otherwise stated in their contracts. Getting into all detail is just going above and beyond ones job.

No, it's doing their job properly. A translator exists to make a work from one language and culture understandable to another, which doesn't happen if you fundamentally change the intent of the original work.

Yes whether it be the "big bosses" in Japan and/or Funi MAYBE these "big bosses" told them (the writers/translators/voice actors) to "spice it up." It is a possibility.

But the intent is the same, Tapion's story is the same in both Dubs. The only thing losg is the tapioca pun which doesn't impact the story. (That is amusing "Tapion" isn't a joke that maybe we aren't aware of. )

[Robo4900]

putting in extra dialogue and explanations

Not sure what you mean by extra explanations.

They tend to add details to worldbuilding that weren't in the original; "Brilliant scientist" was an example of this, calling the guys the Saiyans delt with "Arcosians" was part of this... It's not just names, though those are easy to point to in cases like this. Take a look at the stuff I pasted in from the Tapion movie's dub script compared to the Steve Simmons subs for a good example.

But what if the Dub writers were told to "punch it up?" Take the Digimon Movie as an example I am sure some boss said "make it so it is 90's extreme!" I recall Sabet saying a lot of their "punching up" was executive meddling. So their job was to add jokes and make it "Americanized."

That gives them an excuse, but it doesn't mean what they're doing isn't bastardising an existing work, and arbitrarily deciding that English-speakers should have a vastly different experience viewing it to Japanese viewers.
Like, few will dispute that the Saban dub of Dragon Ball Z is an utter bastardisation of the original Japanese work. I still enjoy it for what it is, and that's fine. But if the Saban dub was the only dubbed viewing option for the show, that would be really awful; you're missing bits, the tone is wrong, the characters are vastly different, etc., etc. You're not watching the original Japanese work, you're watching some American's adaptation of it. And what gives some American the right to decide that instead of getting a translation of the original work, we should get a revised adaptation instead? At the best of times, it's highly disrespectful to everyone who worked on the original, and insulting to everyone in their target audience that they won't just take the original, and give us an English version of that.

Whether it is JPN or Uncut Funi Dub Son Goku is still Son Goku. A generally nice, sometimes naive alien who gets his rocks off by fighting. One side may have played up his nice persona more so than the other side but we all know who Son Goku is. As for Tapion maybe the translator and writers didn't understand the puns but I doubt they are bad writers. (For example, how or what is a "Nappa" and how is it a Veggie?)
If you're a writer you either got the job because A) you can clearly write or B) you blew the right boss. Either way the Uncut Funi Dub of Movie 13 is entertaining so the writers can't be blamed, they did their job. Also many have different takes on funny, I for example get a giggle out of "we need... balls!"

And whether it's The Dark Knight or the '60s TV show, Batman is still Batman; an eccentric billionaire who fights crime as the world's greatest detective, in unbending pursuit of justice.
And yet, if The Dark Knight was somehow revised to be like the '60s show in some foreign country, I bet most would be horrified at this grievous act of disrespect to this much-loved movie.
I'm sure the writers did the best they could under the circumstances, and assuming a best case scenario where they simply acted on instructions to "Punch it up" to "Fit an American audience", they did good work with it. I imagine Taika Waititi could give us a very entertaining comedic take on Watchmen, but it wouldn't be Watchmen anymore, and whoever would've made the decision to have him do that would be a total idiot.

But someone else may not and thus prefer the JPN Dub. Hell we have seen time and time again that many on here don't appreaciate Dragon Ball's (original) toilet humor.

You say that as if this is just a case of "This is one version. If you don't like it, you can watch another." If that was the case, dubs would have no purpose. A dub's job is to let you watch this Japanese show in English, either because you can't read subtitles, or there's some reason that reading subtitles would just not be a great option.
If the show needs to be "Punched up" to be good, then it's not a good show, and the guys working on it would be better served working on something else. But Dragon Ball is a good show, a show constructed with a lot of thought behind every decision made in its construction. As I said before, bunch of Americans down the line deciding it's somehow not good enough, and revising the scripts to "Punch it up" to "Suit an American audience" is massively disrespectful, and deprives all English viewers of the option to watch the show as it was intended, but without having to read subtitles.

If Funimation had put out accurate dubs all along, with proper scripts without stupid alterations, we wouldn't be having this conversation; you would still enjoy the show for what it is, and hardcores like me would appreciate the dub as a perfectly valid secondary viewing option for the show for those who wish to see it like that(In fact, if the dubs weren't awful, I would prefer to watch it dubbed. If all of Dragon Ball was dubbed like how Pioneer dubbed the movies, I would likely watch nothing but that version). As it stands, fans of the Japanese and English audio tracks get divergent experiences, and there is absolutely no reason for it. The changes serve no real purpose other than to make the uncut dub an inaccurate translation, and a poor representation of what was intended by the original creative guys in Japan.

Why can't the end result be praised? If those random jokes, altered characterizations, and extra dialogue are all executed adequately enough, then why not give the result its due credit? Discourage the practice perhaps, but not the final product. Or is it all or nothing?

Does scripting a different show on top of Dragon Ball necessarily have to remain in the "fan parody world"? Is there not room for a reworked version of Dragon Ball like FUNi's, that re-imagines things as they see fit? Maybe if they altered the title a bit, so as to not entirely mislead the audience ("FUNimation's Dragon Ball")?

I'm not sure of the answers to these questions, but certainly the argument could be made that FUNimation's dubs are more than simply "crap jobs", whether the original meaning/intent remains or not.

See above.

Funimation's dubbing work on Dragon Ball has never been good enough, because they have never discarded the practice of revising the scripts to fit their revisionist vision of the show, and for that reason, the show you see on Adult Swim is not Toei's Dragon Ball Super, it's Funimation's Dragon Ball Super. There is no reason for this, the original would be just as well-liked by casual fans, and it would finally cater to the more hardcore fans if they dubbed things properly, but instead, they "Punch it up", and we are stuck with two divergent versions. This practice should have died in the '90s, all the revisionist attitudes should have been totally killed off when Funimation parted ways with Saban and started dubbing Dragon Ball Z uncut; in fact, what happened was that at least in the early period right after they moved things in-house, it got even worse due to the poor quality of the raw translations. And while things are better than they were, better doesn't mean good, and pretty much since Funi gave up on being more accurate after Kai 1.0, they've stayed at the same level of inaccurate nonsense layered on top of a good translation since TFC... It's basically the same as what we got with their OG DB dub, if it had been based on better translations, and had good acting(And don't get me wrong here; Funi's OG DB dub is bad. Not as bad as their Z or GT dubs, but still bad).

In all situations, everyone should continually encourage improvement where improvement can be made, and make an effort to improve. Mindlessly praising mediocre or subpar works because "come on it has some merit" or "it used to be worse 20 years ago" is just idiotic, and encourages awfulness and mediocrity to remain as-is. If someone isn't improving on their own, just lying down and accepting it will give no reason for that someone to improve. Maye you're fine living with that, but I sure as hell will not just sit down and take a complete refusal for anyone or anything to improve itself. In my opinion, a refusal to self-improve is about the worst thing someone can do to themselves, and most definitely is the worst thing a group who work on a piece of creative media can do to it, and their work on it.

Naturally, give credit where credit is due, always... But every time the flaws of Funi's dubs are discussed, every dub fan jumps in and seems to take it massively personally, as if criticism is an evil concept and anything other than praise is an affront to everything you love about the show... Criticism is important. But remember, it's not like we're talking to a person who's having to deal with issues in their life and improve, Funimation don't need positive reinforcement and encouragement, the only thing of any real consequence here is criticism. Trying to override this discussion with "but i like it anyway" is just inane. When your response to my criticisms boils down to the equivalent of "but what if the guy punching you in the balls only did so because he was told to by someone else and this guy's just doing the best job he can? and anyway i don't mind being punched in the balls, so i don't see the problem", I'm not sure I have anything I can really say other than "Maybe your perspective isn't the only perspective in this situation."

[WittyUsername]

This idea that FUNimation has “given up” on being accurate to the original after Kai 1.0 strikes me as a really bizarre statement. Their dub of Super has been much more accurate than their older dubs. I know some would argue that’s not good enough, but suggesting that they’ve gone back to their old ways really comes across as incorrect. Sure, they still have their moments of trying to spice up the dialogue, but apart from one or two examples, there hasn’t been anything nearly as egregious as what we used to get.

[MyVisionity]

A dub's job is to let you watch this Japanese show in English, either because you can't read subtitles, or there's some reason that reading subtitles would just not be a great option. As I said before, bunch of Americans down the line deciding it's somehow not good enough, and revising the scripts to "Punch it up" to "Suit an American audience" is massively disrespectful, and deprives all English viewers of the option to watch the show as it was intended, but without having to read subtitles.

Why should English-speaking viewers even expect to have the option to watch the show without reading subtitles? That sounds just a little bit entitled to me, no offense. In my view, unless the viewer has an impairment of some kind that prevents them from reading subtitles, then watching a Japanese show in English seems like more of a luxury than anything else.

As it stands, fans of the Japanese and English audio tracks get divergent experiences, and there is absolutely no reason for it. The changes serve no real purpose other than to make the uncut dub an inaccurate translation, and a poor representation of what was intended by the original creative guys in Japan.

The way I see it, what was intended by the original creative team in Japan includes the original casting and voice direction. Even if it were an accurate and faithful dub, wouldn't fans of the Japanese and English audio still be getting somewhat divergent experiences? I have to admit that as much as I love and enjoy watching the Pioneer movie dubs, it still feels like I'm not quite experiencing what was originally intended by the creators.

My thinking now is that once the product has been completed in Japan, then that's it, it's completed. If viewers in other countries can't understand the Japanese language, then they are just out of luck. If that means they have to read subtitles in order to watch the show, then that's just how it is. Maybe the only true purpose that a dub should serve is as an option exclusively reserved for either those who are physically/mentally unable to read subtitles, or for the most devoted enthusiasts who are willing to seek out an English language version and spend more.

Or maybe a dub could be used as a sample of sorts, a tool used to expose the audience to the series or to get them interested so that they might be willing to continue watching the show in Japanese. Especially if you're dealing with younger children who might be less likely to read subtitles or listen to Japanese voices.

[KBABZ]

Why should English-speaking viewers even expect to have the option to watch the show without reading subtitles? That sounds just a little bit entitled to me, no offense. In my view, unless the viewer has an impairment of some kind that prevents them from reading subtitles, then watching a Japanese show in English seems like more of a luxury than anything else.

It's because subtitles come with the prejudice of "if you're using them, something's wrong". Either you're hearing impaired or you can't understand the language, and for most people popping in a DVD, those two things are considered problems that subtitles are a band-aid for but don't solve in the same way a dub would, at least to those people.

For my part, I find subtitles visually distracting because I spend too much time looking down to read them than I do watching the actual footage, and on a more minor note the way I read subtitles in my head will always be different from what the voice actors are doing, so that's something I have to do as well. It's a very different experience for me compared to watching in my native language where I can appreciate the audio and the picture at the same time as if I were witnessing it for real, and so that's more immersive (this applies to video games too). But I don't begrudge anyone who wants to watch subtitled to get the more authentic experience.

[ABED]

Also yes I am fully aware of the "Goku is Superman" connections but almost any and every Superhero/super human, Japanese or American are all knock offs of Supermen in one form or another. Hell DB Minus turned Goku's origins into Superman's origins (Or so people say anyway)

This is what I'm talking about - Goku isn't Superman in any way. He has a completely different personality and goals. Goku wants to be the best martial artist he can be and fight the strongest opponents he can. Superman wants to live a relatively normal life and help people. It's the dub that has contributed to the image of Goku being a superhero when he's not.

And we all understand that employees are hired to do a job. Arguing the writers are doing what they are told is irrelevant. Regardless of who makes the decision. a dub should remain as faithful as possible.

[Majin Buu]

Why can't the end result be praised? If those random jokes, altered characterizations, and extra dialogue are all executed adequately enough, then why not give the result its due credit? Discourage the practice perhaps, but not the final product. Or is it all or nothing?

Praise it all you want if you like it, but it's not the dubbing company's place to change the original script like that. Aside from just not liking the new material in question, some people just want Funimation to remain as faithful to the original script as possible and not change things because they want to experience the show "the way it was meant to be seen" by the people that actually made it.

I think what GTx10 is trying to suggest is that Toei or someone else in Japan gave them the go-ahead to alter the script. Which I personally disagree with, we would have heard about that by now as a defense FUNimation have given out.

On that note, I've lately been thinking that Toei bears some responsibility this. I'm sure if they wanted they could stipulate that Funimation not alter the show like they do, but they don't.

[KBABZ]

I think what GTx10 is trying to suggest is that Toei or someone else in Japan gave them the go-ahead to alter the script. Which I personally disagree with, we would have heard about that by now as a defense FUNimation have given out.

On that note, I've lately I've been thinking that Toei bears some responsibility this. I'm sure if they wanted they could stipulate that Funimation not alter the show like they do, but they don't.

I've had that thought too, if they were upset about how their flagship product has basically been almost completely mis-interpreted by the English-speaking world I'm sure we would have heard about it, right? Or do they not care since it brings in that sweet sweet yen?

[Majin Buu]

Or do they not care since it brings in that sweet sweet yen?

That's the conclusion I came to as well: They just don't care because it's making money for them anyway. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Toei doesn't care about Dragon Ball on an artistic level, only as a money maker.

[Robo4900]

A dub's job is to let you watch this Japanese show in English, either because you can't read subtitles, or there's some reason that reading subtitles would just not be a great option. As I said before, bunch of Americans down the line deciding it's somehow not good enough, and revising the scripts to "Punch it up" to "Suit an American audience" is massively disrespectful, and deprives all English viewers of the option to watch the show as it was intended, but without having to read subtitles.

Why should English-speaking viewers even expect to have the option to watch the show without reading subtitles? That sounds just a little bit entitled to me, no offense. In my view, unless the viewer has an impairment of some kind that prevents them from reading subtitles, then watching a Japanese show in English seems like more of a luxury than anything else.

... Because this is what a dub is. This is the purpose of a dub. Yes, it is a luxury, a luxury that is called a dub.

In fact, this isn't just what a dub should be, this is what Funimation very strongly implies with their rhetoric about their dubbing work; ask any of the guys about how they put together their scripts, and they will say something along the lines of "If it's in our scripts, it's in the Japanese. We're trying to give you the most pure DBZ experience possible, and the most true to the original Japanese version as possible." You can see this in multiple interviews, and yet it's a blatant lie.
I don't think I need address the rest of your post, with this in mind.

[Bajosexto]

Why should English-speaking viewers even expect to have the option to watch the show without reading subtitles? That sounds just a little bit entitled to me, no offense. In my view, unless the viewer has an impairment of some kind that prevents them from reading subtitles, then watching a Japanese show in English seems like more of a luxury than anything else.

Because dubs exist. They have for many years. They are a way of making a foreign movie/show accessible to people who don't speak the language of that movie/show. Just like subtitles are. Speaking of subtitles, you could ask the same question about them. Why should any English speaking viewer even expect to have the option to watch a foreign show subtitled? Because most people aren't bilingual, trilingual, quadrilingual, etc. In order to watch anime, you require subtitles or a dub to view it unless you're fluent in Japanese. The companies that want to sell their products in foreign countries know that. And therefore they offer their movies/shows dubbed and/or subtitled. Why should English speakers expect the new Dragon Ball film to be dubbed? Because there's a market for dubbed Dragon Ball in English speaking countries. Just like in several other places.

The way I see it, what was intended by the original creative team in Japan includes the original casting and voice direction. Even if it were an accurate and faithful dub, wouldn't fans of the Japanese and English audio still be getting somewhat divergent experiences? I have to admit that as much as I love and enjoy watching the Pioneer movie dubs, it still feels like I'm not quite experiencing what was originally intended by the creators.

You won't get the exact same experience from the original by watching a dub. Of course not. Not only are the original actors replaced by dub actors, you're essentially watching someone else's interpretation of the show. The dub actors have their own interpretation of the characters (most likely based off the original actor's portrayal). The translator translates and adapts the script based on his/her style of translating. Cultural specific jokes, references, slang and idoms get lost in translation. However even with these changes, an accurate and faithful dub will give you a very similar experience to the original show. At the very least you'll be experiencing the same story.

To give you an example, 85% to 90% of the shows, cartoons and movies I grew up watching were dubbed. I watched Dragon Ball Z, Terminator 2, The Simpsons, Ranma 1/2, First Blood, Malcolm in the Middle, House and much more all dubbed. Some dubs were okay. Others were very good and faithful. The ones that were accurate and faithful, like Dragon Ball Z, gave me a very similar expirience to the original. Goku does and says the same thing in both verisons (original Japanese and Latin American dub). He has the same motivations. He has the same personality. The only major difference is his voice. Nozawa gives Goku a very high pitched voice. Mario Castañeda sounds much deeper. But even with a deeper voice Mario still manages to capture the spirit of Goku. The dub is as close to the original as it can be. The things that prevent it from giving you the same exact experience are stuff that can't be kept. Such as the original voice actors interpretations, and cultural references that get lost in translation, etc. Besides that it's the same show.

Another example would be Terminator 3. I just watched it yesterday in English for the first time. And like Dragon Ball Z, the Latin American dub of Terminator 3 gives you a very similar experience to the original version. The characters do and say the same things in both versions. Their motivations are the same. The dub actors protrayals are similar to their original actors counterparts. Yes stuff does get lost in translation but my point is that a good, accurate and faithful dub will give you a very similar experience as the original.

My thinking now is that once the product has been completed in Japan, then that's it, it's completed. If viewers in other countries can't understand the Japanese language, then they are just out of luck. If that means they have to read subtitles in order to watch the show, then that's just how it is. Maybe the only true purpose that a dub should serve is as an option exclusively reserved for either those who are physically/mentally unable to read subtitles, or for the most devoted enthusiasts who are willing to seek out an English language version and spend more.

That's a really unfair way to look at it. Not everyone speaks Japanese. That's why dubbed/subtitled anime should and does exists. Not everyone speaks English. That's why dubbed/subtitled Hollywood movies should and do exist. Dubs exist because there's a market for them. They are not just for those who can't read subtitles. In fact in some places they are the main way to consume foreign shows and movies.

[Super Sonic]

Name pronunciation differences are a mark that separates their early dubs from their latter ones. For example, in YYH and Shuffle, here are characters named Itsuki. YYH's dub pronounces his name "It-Soo-Kee", while Shuffle's dub has their guy's name pronounced "It-Skee". Similar things happened with Negima having girls named Kaede and Haruna. Girls in Shuffle and Is This a Zombie have girls with the same name, but pronounced "Ky-day" and "Hah-roo-nuh" instead of Negima's "Kah-eh-day" and "Huh-roo-nuh".

[linkdude20002001]

But what if the Dub writers were told to "punch it up?" Take the Digimon Movie as an example I am sure some boss said "make it so it is 90's extreme!" I recall Sabet saying a lot of their "punching up" was executive meddling. So their job was to add jokes and make it "Americanized."
Whether it is JPN or Uncut Funi Dub Son Goku is still Son Goku. A generally nice, sometimes naive alien who gets his rocks off by fighting. One side may have played up his nice persona more so than the other side but we all know who Son Goku is. As for Tapion maybe the translator and writers didn't understand the puns but I doubt they are bad writers. (For example, how or what is a "Nappa" and how is it a Veggie?)
If you're a writer you either got the job because A) you can clearly write or B) you blew the right boss. Either way the Uncut Funi Dub of Movie 13 is entertaining so the writers can't be blamed, they did their job. Also many have different takes on funny, I for example get a giggle out of "we need... balls!" But someone else may not and thus prefer the JPN Dub. Hell we have seen time and time again that many on here don't appreaciate Dragon Ball's (original) toilet humor.
But I think in the end "Tapion" works because it has the "tap" sound of "tapioca" and still sounds alien which Tapion is.

The script writers were indeed told to punch up the script (by their boss at Funimation), but that really isn't the point. The point is that Funimation wanted to make their own version of Draagon Ball Z. I don't think they even really lookt at the Japanese script since they didn't want to waste money on a translator they were mostly going to ignore anyway. They did have those terribel translations from Toei, but they probably only caused more problems than they helpt. And also, they did eventually hire Steve Simmons...but that was for the subtitels, not their dub. They didn't want to "make the show bad" (paraphrasing) by basing their script on Toei's when Americans clearly liked watching Funimation's DBZ. I suppose the script change, despite being an improvement, would've indeed been jarring...but I don't think it would've been more so than replacing the composer and cast.

Then I guess you've never heard of a napa cabbage. I see them all the time at grocery stores.

No one's blaming the writer. Just Funimation. Maybe you like some of Funimation's jokes, but then again, a good writer could've given you jokes you liked while also being faithful to Toriyama/Toei's script and humor style. It's not all poop jokes. It's just that a lot of them aren't translatable. In those instances, the writer (or some-times the translator) should replace them when possible. Maybe it's impossible. In that case, they can add one else-where. The point is to keep the same feel as the original. This is how Funimation handels all their non-Dragon Ball shows nowadays (From what I've seen. Maybe not all.). If they can do that with other shows and have people love them, then there's no reason they can't do the same for DB. In fact, had they started out doing it faithfully since 1994, and only just now with Super decided to make DB into their own version, I think (maybe) you'd be on the opposite side of the fence with this argument.

Wait, you're saying that FUNi pronounces Tapion as [TAAH-pee-AHN], making it like tapioca [TAAH-pee-OH-kuh]? I thot the point of the thread was that FUNi pronounced it incorrectly. As [TEHY-pee-AHN]. It is supposed to sound like tapioca. That's what he was named after, and how it's written in Japanese: タピオカ (TA PI O KA) to タピオン (TA PI O N).

This idea that FUNimation has “given up” on being accurate to the original after Kai 1.0 strikes me as a really bizarre statement. Their dub of Super has been much more accurate than their older dubs. I know some would argue that’s not good enough, but suggesting that they’ve gone back to their old ways really comes across as incorrect. Sure, they still have their moments of trying to spice up the dialogue, but apart from one or two examples, there hasn’t been anything nearly as egregious as what we used to get.

Even Kai wasn't as faithful of an English dub as their other shows. Rather, it was a halfway point between Toei's DBZ and FUNi's DBZ. If you're including the replaced voice actors and better acting, then don't. They replaced the actors who were no good at acting (and they hadn't cast them in a new role in a long, long time), and the returning actors were professional actors finally, unlike in 1999. These improvements weren't a part of making it a faithful dub. So like I was saying, it was a 50/50 kind of dub. But they moved away from that, and it's leaning a lot more in the direction of FUNi's DBZ.

On that note, I've lately been thinking that Toei bears some responsibility this. I'm sure if they wanted they could stipulate that Funimation not alter the show like they do, but they don't.

They COULD, but they don't care. This isn't Studio Ghibli. No, this is just a company who cares as littel as Funimation does, and it seems only Toriyama cares. But of course, he wrote it. Ghibli cares becuz they made those movies, those stories, those characters, themselves. But when you just redrew (in animated form) some-one else's work, you're not as attacht. If they cared, they wouldn't've given Vegeta brown hair to start, or change littel-Trunks' haircolor in Super. Or in Yu-Gi-Oh!, given Kaiba green hair.

[WittyUsername]

This idea that FUNimation has “given up” on being accurate to the original after Kai 1.0 strikes me as a really bizarre statement. Their dub of Super has been much more accurate than their older dubs. I know some would argue that’s not good enough, but suggesting that they’ve gone back to their old ways really comes across as incorrect. Sure, they still have their moments of trying to spice up the dialogue, but apart from one or two examples, there hasn’t been anything nearly as egregious as what we used to get.

Even Kai wasn't as faithful of an English dub as their other shows. Rather, it was a halfway point between Toei's DBZ and FUNi's DBZ. If you're including the replaced voice actors and better acting, then don't. They replaced the actors who were no good at acting (and they hadn't cast them in a new role in a long, long time), and the returning actors were professional actors finally, unlike in 1999. These improvements weren't a part of making it a faithful dub. So like I was saying, it was a 50/50 kind of dub. But they moved away from that, and it's leaning a lot more in the direction of FUNi's DBZ.

I was specifically talking about the scripts, not the voice actors. Frankly, I don’t see how voice acting can even really be considered a factor when it comes to being accurate to the original version. There are plenty of dubs with accurate scripts that have awful voice acting.

[linkdude20002001]

I was specifically talking about the scripts, not the voice actors. Frankly, I don’t see how voice acting can even really be considered a factor when it comes to being accurate to the original version. There are plenty of dubs with accurate scripts that have awful voice acting.

Oh, okay. I was just making sure. I mean, it counts as an upgrade from DBZ's dub, sure, but not in faithfulness. At least, I would HOPE that "bad acting" isn't "the FUNi DBZ way". Lol.