Your Favorite Ending?

[caejones]

Meh, I guess which ending is the best depends largely on what we're thinking about at the time.
The anime ending to DB had a closure sort of feel to it. Tenshinhan's conflict with his teachers was ... ur... resolved, Goku and Piccolo accept tha they are eternal rivals, and Goku gets married and lives happily ever after. Except not. Thanks, Raditz... .

Namek... if we really want to end the darn thing, and keep the drama where it's been until then, and want resolutions on Piccolo and Vegeta and Goku... yes, exploding Namekworks better. Especialy for Vegeta, because the "I must surpass Kakarot!" thing got very old very fast. And ... pretty much accounts for the vast majority of the amazingly crappy crap in a many action fanfics.
There's a lot of buildup and such with regards to Piccolo, Gohan, Kuririn and Goku that are dealt with in the Cell saga. Arguably, we do the same with Ten, Chaozu and Yamcha... and clean up the "revenge" trend, supposedly for good (and then DBZ movies 6, 7, 8, 10, and 11 happened... and GT...).
The actual ending to Z gives us some more Goku development, and shows everyone ending up like... somewhere... although for most of them I don't really like how they ound up... so yeh, I usually ignore the end of Z, despite how awesome that closing scene was (I think Faulconer's 'earth' remix at the ending of the dub actually worked better than most of his stuff...).
I've only seen the ending of GT once... I wasn't immensely impressed (I got tired of Flashbacks in the Cell saga). But it has a lot more finality to it than the super open-ended ones that preceed it.

Umm... Yeah. If rewrites weren't cliche...

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

Mmmm, this is a hard question that's always given me some trouble, because really, it depends on a lot of things.

In many ways, since it was the INTENDED ending, Gokou's defeat of Freeza would have been a good 'ending' in the sense...but not so much, in my opinion, a good ending for Dragonball. It started as a freaking gag Manga and even as the series got more serious through the Saiyajin Saga, I don't think a depressing ending like that would have suited the adventures fans had been following to that point.

Really...

'K gaiz I beats Freeza nao but I vanishz'

'oh no daddy wut happen u no can be'z ded'

'ZOMG LIEK DRAGONBALLZ NAO SHENLONG I CHOOSE YOU'

'Sorry he doesn't want to come back he told me to tell you he hates you all'

'Awww man...that sucks'

...It just...doesn't feel like the ending Dragonball should have had, in spite of the fact that we all know it's where he really wanted to end it. So personally (and not just due to my natural bias for SSJ2 Gohan ^^; ) I'm thankful for the Cell Saga - we got to see Gokou come back, we got some nice moments out of it, we got some interesting fights, even if this was the point where SSJ began to be a little overdone in my opinion...and the ending here, I feel, would have been an EXCELLENT ending to the series. Toriyama-Sensei had clearly, from the beginning of the 'DBZ' storyline, been trying to make the responsibility of the hero fall to Gohan, and there would have been no better way than this, where he surpassed his father and Gokou actually died happy and proud, killing him off in a much better way than the Freeza Saga would have (because come on, if it's one thing DBZ proved it's that unless he's dead...or Hell, even if he IS dead, just so long as Gokou is AROUND no one else gets to be the hero...so he kinda HAD to die to remove that factor -_-)...it was still a happy ending, even with the loss of Gokou, and culminating with Trunks saving his future, I think it'd have been the perfect ending for DBZ.

The Buu Saga had its own excellent moments, and the thing I love most about it (besides Goten and Trunks <.<>.>) is the fact that it integrated a LOT of DB's old style of humor back into the series...much needed by that point if it was going to keep running after the Cell Saga. Buuuuuut in creating it we lost what I consider the absolute perfect ending of the series...but Hell, if it had ended without the 10 year skip? Maybe the Buu Saga could have had a nice ending, too. Kinda like the filler episode where they're all partying? That right there would have been a good ending to the entire series!! But then boom, 10 year timeskip. That wouldn't have BEEN so bad if the series was intended to keep going, but it was done for the worst possible reasons and it fucked so much up because of its short duration. It made the already practically completely useless characters even more useless than imaginable (and...a-and my sweet little Gohan... *cry*), and we didn't even get to see what the only two who should have been the new potential heroes - Goten and Trunks - were really capable of. And even Uubu...who had the potential, again, to be really cool, IF THE INTENTION WAS FOR THE SERIES TO CONTINUE. That timeskip was a complete and utter waste if only because it introduced a lot of possibilities that weren't even SLIGHTLY explored...and it ended with Gokou abandoning his family.

AGAIN.

WTF.

So...even though I dispised GT, because it was made for the wrong reasons, and it did all the wrong things...if I had to pick a way any of the series ACTUALLY ended? GT's was easily, far and above, the best. It was fitting as an ending after what GT introduced, it wrapped things up, and it wasn't...utterly stupid. GT itself, yeah, it was utterly stupid, but the ending was not. DBZ's ending...seriously. SERIOUSLY. I swear that - along with Gokou vs. Freeza for 'five minutes' *beats head into wall* - the ending of DBZ is the worst fucking thing about the entire series. It's just...nnnnngh. I hate it. That's the entire freaking reason I started writing IGNO afterall.

...

...That's my two cents on it anyways. Ngh.

[Rocketman]

That's the entire freaking reason I started writing IGNO afterall.

"“Otousan!” calls the man’s first son, Son Gohan. Gohan, too, had at one time been a great warrior, strong and brave…before the years of peacetime caused him to change his passion for fighting over to that of a scholarly pursuit."

1. Random Japanese.
2. Gohan, great? Brave?
3. Gohan always wanted to be a scholar, and was always the definition of the word pussy when it came to fighting. Actually, no, he wasn't. Because a disembodied vagina laying out on the battlefield would be more effective, because then while Vegeta's thinking The hell is that? Is that a...?, Goku can run over and clobber him on the head. And don't even get started on if it was a cat. Scratch would lay some bitchass slapping down. Be all rewararaer and Vegeta's like oh my god he's eating my tonsils! So yeah.

I'm sorry, you got an F.

[Captain Awesome]

"“Otousan!” calls the man’s first son, Son Gohan. Gohan, too, had at one time been a great warrior, strong and brave…before the years of peacetime caused him to change his passion for fighting over to that of a scholarly pursuit."

1. Random Japanese.

..I really have to agree there..

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

I'm sorry, but A) I didn't spend all that time replying to the relevant forum discussion topic for you to take one blind opportunity to pick on me because I happen to like Gohan (as though I'm the only one who does) and you don't, and B) I don't believe this is the fanfiction review thread, either, so acknowledge what my post was actually about (read: the topic, you know, the thing declared in the thread title) or GTFO.

[Rocketman]

opportunity to pick on me because I happen to like Gohan (as though I'm the only one who does)

I pick at them too. It's what I do.

I don't believe this is the fanfiction review thread, either, so acknowledge what my post was actually about (read: the topic, you know, the thing declared in the thread title)

Do we actually have a fanfiction review thread? I dunno.

Anyways, as for the Freeza Saga ending, I don't see why it's so much more depressing than the Cell Saga ending.

[Li'l Lemmy]

"“Otousan!” calls the man’s first son, Son Gohan. Gohan, too, had at one time been a great warrior, strong and brave…before the years of peacetime caused him to change his passion for fighting over to that of a scholarly pursuit."

1. Random Japanese.
2. Gohan, great? Brave?
3. Gohan always wanted to be a scholar, and was always the definition of the word pussy when it came to fighting. Actually, no, he wasn't. Because a disembodied vagina laying out on the battlefield would be more effective, because then while Vegeta's thinking The hell is that? Is that a...?, Goku can run over and clobber him on the head. And don't even get started on if it was a cat. Scratch would lay some bitchass slapping down. Be all rewararaer and Vegeta's like oh my god he's eating my tonsils! So yeah.

I'm sorry, you got an F.

Dude, li'l harsh?

Even discounting your extreme (read: legendary) bias against Gohan, I don't think it was super-necessary to respond to such an offhanded reference like that. Did you even read past the prologue, or did you just go an' judge this based off the first few paragraphs without getting a feel for the story?

I read that story.

Points 2 and 3, I'm not inclined to debate you on; that's just you being you, so no big. But the "random Japanese" you're talking about is not so random as what you're implying. Read more fics that are packed to overflowing with words like baka and kuso and kawaii and then come back to IGNO here, and you'll notice that when and where the author implements Japanese is incredibly selected and reserved . . . but also logical where applied.

It's not exactly written from or for the dub perspective (which IS your preference anyways, if I ain't mistaken); it's written for us original version peeps. Can any fan of the original imagine Nozawa Masako's Gohan actually pronouncing that word as "Father"? Or for Goten to come up to Trunks and address him without the kun[/b]? (Awful awful AWFUL, that one-- that and the way the dub took away Kamekame-Ha. WTF?!) The honorifics an' such are necessary IMHO because A) this isn't the show and thus has no audio, so it helps to retain certain elements from it when writing so that the characters sound off properly into the reader's imagination, and B) in a lot of cases these words are large enough a part of their respective characters to where taking them away would detract from the story, and the author is rather skilled to recognize this without going overboard to drop in those other "random" words that plague so much of our fic these days. There's a distinct balance, here.

Even all that aside, though, it was also kind of unnecessary to unceremoniously label it as Fail . . . particularly considering IGNO was so offhanded a mention to begin with. Maybe read the thing first and then be a little more constructive in your criticism, ne? -_-

SO, BACK TO TOPIC.

Uhhh . . . hmm. Shit. The problem is, I can see each of the endings what were at one time or another "possible" as working out well for the series. The Cell Game would probably have been THE best ending and successfully brought the series full-circle, but for what we have it's ironic that the ending to the worst series of the bunch functions as the best of the set for the entirety of DragonBall.

Freeza, I guess, would have worked as a nice close-out to what the series had become. The tone of DragonBall had solidly and inarguably changed ever since Raditz touched down on earth (and to a lesser extent, since Majunior), and from there the focus continued its one-way shift towards a "destiny" of sorts for Goku as opposed to something more inclusive of the ensemble in general. The entire Freeza arc was about prepping for Goku to become a god of sorts, and for him to die as well-- to pass into legend . . . so the fact that he somehow survives for there to be Jinzoningen and Boo and whatever, although I'm glad for it, kinda makes me shrug and go "eh" when I consider the original intended ending.

But the factor of Gohan kinda makes it . . . not work. Had Gohan never been born? Freeza = perfect. But with Gohan in the picture it kinda throws an ending like that out of whack, albeit slightly. We would have so barely gotten to know him, and by this point his potential had already been hinted at so much that ending it here amounts to a cocktease where he's concerned.

Which is why the Cell Game ending works so perfectly. This one should have been it so far as something cohesive and poignant goes. Words don't really do it any conceivable justice-- the only notable problem with it is that I'm aware of the characters and storyline that came afterward and wouldn't want those to be lost, which is a non-factor and doesn't count against the ending itself; had it happened, it would have been perfect, and I'd have never thought, guessed at or wanted anything further.

Boo is a great, great storyline with a much-needed injection of fresh characters and elements to combine the DragonBall of yesterday with the focus it had shifted to with Freeza and Cell (albeit with notable or "convenient" flaws, such as the separation of Vegetto as a plot device to get the original two character back, not to mention how Fusion amounts to jack shit in the long run besides) . . . but the ending is not the way to end this series. It's crap.

GT for the win, and for reasons already mentioned elsewhere.

My opinion, though. Discuss, etc.


~Da Lemmy

[Rocketman]

you'll notice that when and where the author implements Japanese is incredibly selected and reserved . . . but also logical where applied.

Is it really any better when every other word in the fic is English except for one or two?

Can any fan of the original imagine Nozawa Masako's Gohan actually pronouncing that word as "Father"?

Do y'all imagine her speaking in English at all? Or does she speak in English the whole time, just dropping back into Japanese for a couple words you happen to like?

Honorifics

Honestly, I'd rather not get into this crap again after the last time, but hey. Personally, I see honorifics in English writing by non-native Japanese as fanwankery, on the same level as "Bejiita" or "Seru".

I dunno, apparently, all the friendship actions and dialogue between Goten and Trunks isn't enough, WE MUST HAVE -KUN OR WE CAN NEVER KNOW THEIR TRUE RELATIONSHIP! It's like Heisenberg on idiot pills. Makes you wonder how the West ever managed to build any sort of civilization when we didn't have such vastly important things as honorifics.

Even all that aside, though, it was also kind of unnecessary to unceremoniously label it as Fail . . . particularly considering IGNO was so offhanded a mention to begin with. Maybe read the thing first and then be a little more constructive in your criticism, ne? -_-

No thanks. That ranks down with Goku/Vegeta lovin' and Super Saiyan 5+ - dealbreakers.

I do admit to being a bit harsh, mostly because in my experience, randomly tossing your fic out as an example is the poster going "hey! I gots a fic see theresafic righthere readitnow review showermewithpraise!" I apologize if that was not her intent.

ANYWAYS!

But the factor of Gohan kinda makes it . . . not work. Had Gohan never been born? Freeza = perfect. But with Gohan in the picture it kinda throws an ending like that out of whack, albeit slightly. We would have so barely gotten to know him, and by this point his potential had already been hinted at so much that ending it here amounts to a cocktease where he's concerned.

Putting aside as much of my bias as I can....bollocks. Gohan's potential was unecessary. Goku was, as you said, a god. The Legendary Super Saiyan, the unbeatable warrior. It doesn't matter what Gohan does (and note he's already the strongest being in the entire universe if Piccolo and Vegeta stay dead), he'll never surpass his dad.

Besides, the story isn't about Gohan, it's about Goku. We follow him from a young boy to adulthood, learning the secrets of his past, and then up to his death after dethroning. That's all, story done. And a damn sight better ending than "Goku's abandoned his family for some kid, oh that scamp" or "Invincible Kid Goku is going away forever for...uh...some reason...."

Or hell, it's better than "oh hey, I managed to find a space ship, despite the fact I was nowhere near one and I was clearly staying in one place screaming when the planet exploded under me" And Freeza survived too! SHOCK! And there's suddenly a new Super Saiyan! SHOCK! And there's suddenly some guy building robots to kill you! SHOCK! Oh, by the way, I'm the kid of two characters who've barely even seen each other! SHOCK!

[JohnnyBoy_Z]

It would've been cool if the series ended with a battle on another planet, i.e. Namek/Frieza saga.

On another note, if I were Toriyama, I would've somehow ended the entire series with Goku and Vegeta fighting each other at a Tourney in the afterlife.

[_Jrinu_]

My favourite ending has always been the English version of when Gohan defeats Cell.

Now, I am a big fan of the Japanese version and I love the original music. But every time I watch Gohan completely obliterate cell with the "Ginyu transformation theme" playing in the background, I am reminded of the first time I saw that episode and a chill goes up my spine (in a good way.)

[DemonKingPiccolo]

I actually think that the original intended ending of ascending to Super Saiyan and defeating Freeza would've been perfect as a conclusion to the series. If the series had ended there, the series then wouldn't have had to shift its primary focus from Goku to Goku + other characters. By ending after Freeza's defeat, the series would sum up the life of Goku, and then his "destiny" to be the greatest warrior in the universe: the Legendary Super Saiyan would've beautifully summed up the series. If you look at the series as a whole, everything after the Freeza saga seems very disjointed from the rest of the series, while the Freeza saga and every thing before focused on subjects that pertained specifically to Goku and his life. The Cell and Buu arcs really don't have to do with Goku at all, they're simply events that occur.

Original intention for Goku:
*Strange Monkey King based character

Toriyama's modified intention for Goku:
*Alien sent to Earth to prepare it for Freeza to sell

Later:
*Goku encounters his race's ultimate warrior Vegeta, and defeats him.

Even later:
*Goku avenges the Saiyans, saves the Galaxy from Freeza, and brings closure to his original purpose of preparing Earth for sale. Goku is the legendary Super Saiyan, a champion of justice.

After the Freeza saga, the focus of the series is changed. Goku is not the soul focus anymore, other characters like Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo become the focus of the series along side Goku.

[Big Momma]

I think that ending the series at the end of the Namek arc, and then having some kind of "Shippuden-like" sequel that tells the story of the characters after Goku died, focusing on Gohan, would be great.

[Captain Awesome]

I actually think that the original intended ending of ascending to Super Saiyan and defeating Freeza would've been perfect as a conclusion to the series. If the series had ended there, the series then wouldn't have had to shift its primary focus from Goku to Goku + other characters. By ending after Freeza's defeat, the series would sum up the life of Goku, and then his "destiny" to be the greatest warrior in the universe: the Legendary Super Saiyan would've beautifully summed up the series. If you look at the series as a whole, everything after the Freeza saga seems very disjointed from the rest of the series, while the Freeza saga and every thing before focused on subjects that pertained specifically to Goku and his life. The Cell and Buu arcs really don't have to do with Goku at all, they're simply events that occur.

I agree, I loved the Freeza saga so much, because it's all very relevant to the Goku, all the pieces match up rather nicely, the Jinzoningen/Cell arcs just felt screwed on with the whole Red Ribbon explanation, and the Boo saga felt even less connected, I felt the same way, they were just events occurring rather than having something lead up to them.

[Drabaz]

I really like the Buu saga ending. The series has gone on for so long and to have Goku end up using the Genki Dama to defeat Buu was just brilliant. It's a great way to end it because if you're a fan like me who started watching the show at Z on Toonami, the Genki Dama was the biggest and baddest move that Goku had. And to have a time period in between the end of the Freeza saga, through the entire Android saga, and most of the Buu saga, in which we havn't even seen or heard of the Genki Dama, it just made Goku using it at the end more nastolgic.....and that it finally killed sombody was cool too. They kinda ruined it in GT by ending it the same way. It's like, "Oh yea. That's how they finished it in Z."

I also liked the ending of Z in the Kanzenban. You know, with Uub riding the....darnit, how do you spell Kintoun? And an image of chibi Goku riding next to him.

[caejones]

Thing with the Genki Dama... it was used well in Z, but in the movies it was used like... how many times? Three in a row? Then again? And the movies and GT were done by Toei, so the use of said ultimate attack at the end of GT is far from surprising.

Hm. A Namek-saga ending, followed by a sequel based around the other characters that survived might have turned out more interesting... but that'd pretty much require the "everyone but Gohan and Bulma dies" scenario, so it'd just be DB:Gohan's story. Which may or ay not capture what the Cell and Buu sagas had... (Well, ok, dead Goku and Vegeta would make that difficult... ). There's... umm... Yajirobe?