Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:04 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
TheRed259 wrote:I wonder if they are gonna make Goku from DB Heroes more powerful than Goku from DB Super.
Better question: Will the powerscaling in either of the series be consistent enough to actually tell?
Noooope. We get more and more inconsistent as time goes on, as well as more raging wars on it as well.
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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:01 am

Shaddy wrote:No Dragon Ball series has "consistent power scaling". Everyone's power level has always been, and is always going to be "as strong as we think will make this fight good".
That's incredibly disingenuous. No series is perfectly consistent, but it's pretty clear that the manga always had much more consistency than subsequent products, and it had pretty tight consistency (which is fairly easy both to write and to see with the linear powers).

The scenario you describe would only be true for a series where you couldn't even tell who was intended to be seen as stronger or weaker. But DB's always been pretty clear about where people stand.
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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by Shaddy » Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:44 am

Well, it really is less consistent than many people actually notice, but that doesn't even matter because the only thing standing between "consistent" and "inconsistent" is a throwaway line about meaningless magic power ups, because it's only in service of the story getting people on the levels it wants them to for a battle in the first place. And inconsistent is inconsistent, if you're planning to have a story with rigidly-defined rules and airtight power mechanics in the first place (which Dragon Ball never was, even though people treat it that way for some reason), you can't just act like a single slip-up going unexplained doesn't matter, because it throws off the relative scale for everyone else. Which would be a problem if that was something literally anyone working on this series ever cared about, but it's not, thankfully. The way Toriyama or whoever wants the story and battles and moments to play out is what determined the power scale, never the other way around.

And this is a good thing! Because otherwise there would have been no way for Tien, Yamcha, Krillin and Chiaotzu to ever get strong enough to face even the saibamen, Goku would never be able to become strong enough to face Freeza, we'd never see Goten and Trunks able to do anything, even before they became worthless, there would be no reason to bring anyone weaker than maybe Gohan to the ToP, and there's tons of other examples like this. But nobody would write a story like that, because it would be boring as shit. Internal consistency means crap because the series is inherently inconsistent for sake of subverting expectations, and because if it were always 100% consistent with it's shitty linear power mechanics then it would be a total waste of a series. It's not a video game.
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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:41 pm

Saiga wrote:That's incredibly disingenuous. No series is perfectly consistent, but it's pretty clear that the manga always had much more consistency than subsequent products, and it had pretty tight consistency (which is fairly easy both to write and to see with the linear powers).

The scenario you describe would only be true for a series where you couldn't even tell who was intended to be seen as stronger or weaker. But DB's always been pretty clear about where people stand.
Consistency is what gives us any sort of tension and investment in the first place. Without it suspension of disbelief becomes more and more difficult.
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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:51 pm

Shaddy wrote:Well, it really is less consistent than many people actually notice, but that doesn't even matter because the only thing standing between "consistent" and "inconsistent" is a throwaway line about meaningless magic power ups, because it's only in service of the story getting people on the levels it wants them to for a battle in the first place. And inconsistent is inconsistent, if you're planning to have a story with rigidly-defined rules and airtight power mechanics in the first place (which Dragon Ball never was, even though people treat it that way for some reason), you can't just act like a single slip-up going unexplained doesn't matter, because it throws off the relative scale for everyone else. Which would be a problem if that was something literally anyone working on this series ever cared about, but it's not, thankfully. The way Toriyama or whoever wants the story and battles and moments to play out is what determined the power scale, never the other way around.

And this is a good thing! Because otherwise there would have been no way for Tien, Yamcha, Krillin and Chiaotzu to ever get strong enough to face even the saibamen, Goku would never be able to become strong enough to face Freeza, we'd never see Goten and Trunks able to do anything, even before they became worthless, there would be no reason to bring anyone weaker than maybe Gohan to the ToP, and there's tons of other examples like this. But nobody would write a story like that, because it would be boring as shit. Internal consistency means crap because the series is inherently inconsistent for sake of subverting expectations, and because if it were always 100% consistent with it's shitty linear power mechanics then it would be a total waste of a series. It's not a video game.
Your post is so vague that I'm not sure what you think consistent actually means in this case, unless you're arguing consistency is either '100% airtight' (which no-one has argued) or '0 consistency' with nothing inbetween. That's a ridiculous dichotomy, because it simply isn't useful in a discussion. It's also flawed to say one inconsistency would throw out everything else, because the hierarchy isn't a house of cards. Not knowing whether Kuririn or Tenshinhan were stronger at a given point doesn't make it any less obvious that Goku is stronger than both.

The power-ups are a different thing from characters' power being inconsistent in things like Heroes or Super, where characters power is unclear or appears to fluctuate for no narrative reason. I wasn't arguing that the power-ups were consistent or needed to be, but the characters' power was definitely much more consistent in the original manga and it's much easier to follow. If a character's power changes, we're informed of this. That's not being inconsistent.
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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by Shaddy » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:14 pm

Consistent and inconsistent are an either/or, every Dragon Ball series is inconsistent. Super and Heroes might be inconsistent with how Z did things, but Z's way mostly sucked, and judging it by that only really serves to distract from more important issues with pacing, story structure and character writing. The series has never been written by paying attention to some "rulebook" of how strong the characters should be, it decides how strong it wants them to be on it's own and then makes up how they get there as it goes. The narrative "reason" was never a real factor, just excuses that felt better or worse in execution. Goku drinking some poison water and suddenly being able to take on Piccolo Daimao is as meaningful as Krillin being able to hold back a Super Saiyan Blue kamehameha, the only thing excusing the former is that it made up a special power device that did whatever the author wanted it to. If a story's supposedly worse moments and it's better ones are only separated by whether a character offhandedly mentions "good thing I got the one-time meaningless strength booster!" is it really worth acting like the difference is all that important?
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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:50 pm

I really wish Tomioka Atsuhiro had more time to flesh out the script. The character combinations are a lot of fun and I would love to see more dialogue scenes and more of Tomioka's trademark combat strategies.
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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:09 am

In my opinion, given the fact that Super 2.0 will be somewhat of a 'perfected' product, with the original Super being more of a test (especially it's first 2 arcs which were centered around the movies, which itself indicates that the producers weren't sure as to if Super wpuld be a success), we should hope for something good this time around.

It has to be noted that Toei has gathered more than enough money since 2015, so it would be logical for a high quality product to be on the plans, considering Broly's victorious outcome.

As such, with the west taking advantage of anything Dragon Ball, Bandai knew that even a shitty promo anime like heroes would spread like a virus due to the lack of actual content, until the movie's release.

Ultimately, Dragon Ball came to be an extremely popular anime nowadays with the result being greater incomes for Toei and the rest parent companies.

I have high hopes for DBS 2.0 and lete assure you that by witnessing DBS: Broly's power scaling, if everything later on uses the movie as a basis, then consistency will hopefully return to the franchise (not that it didn't exist, but you get the point).
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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by ZeroNeonix » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:34 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:09 am
In my opinion, given the fact that Super 2.0 will be somewhat of a 'perfected' product, with the original Super being more of a test (especially it's first 2 arcs which were centered around the movies, which itself indicates that the producers weren't sure as to if Super wpuld be a success), we should hope for something good this time around.

It has to be noted that Toei has gathered more than enough money since 2015, so it would be logical for a high quality product to be on the plans, considering Broly's victorious outcome.

As such, with the west taking advantage of anything Dragon Ball, Bandai knew that even a shitty promo anime like heroes would spread like a virus due to the lack of actual content, until the movie's release.

Ultimately, Dragon Ball came to be an extremely popular anime nowadays with the result being greater incomes for Toei and the rest parent companies.

I have high hopes for DBS 2.0 and lete assure you that by witnessing DBS: Broly's power scaling, if everything later on uses the movie as a basis, then consistency will hopefully return to the franchise (not that it didn't exist, but you get the point).
I think they've really been trying since the Zamasu arc. That was the first time the show really felt like the good old days with DBZ. People say the Tournament of Power was "just another tournament," but it's not like they were halfassing it there either. Toriyama, TOEI, and Toyotaro worked hard to create a ton of new characters for their biggest battle ever, unless you count the unnamed Frieza soldiers of Resurrection F. Maybe they'll throw more money at the show when they bring it back, but I'm expecting the same level of quality we've been getting since the Zamasu arc.

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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:16 pm

ZeroNeonix wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:34 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:09 am
In my opinion, given the fact that Super 2.0 will be somewhat of a 'perfected' product, with the original Super being more of a test (especially it's first 2 arcs which were centered around the movies, which itself indicates that the producers weren't sure as to if Super wpuld be a success), we should hope for something good this time around.

It has to be noted that Toei has gathered more than enough money since 2015, so it would be logical for a high quality product to be on the plans, considering Broly's victorious outcome.

As such, with the west taking advantage of anything Dragon Ball, Bandai knew that even a shitty promo anime like heroes would spread like a virus due to the lack of actual content, until the movie's release.

Ultimately, Dragon Ball came to be an extremely popular anime nowadays with the result being greater incomes for Toei and the rest parent companies.

I have high hopes for DBS 2.0 and lete assure you that by witnessing DBS: Broly's power scaling, if everything later on uses the movie as a basis, then consistency will hopefully return to the franchise (not that it didn't exist, but you get the point).
I think they've really been trying since the Zamasu arc. That was the first time the show really felt like the good old days with DBZ. People say the Tournament of Power was "just another tournament," but it's not like they were halfassing it there either. Toriyama, TOEI, and Toyotaro worked hard to create a ton of new characters for their biggest battle ever, unless you count the unnamed Frieza soldiers of Resurrection F. Maybe they'll throw more money at the show when they bring it back, but I'm expecting the same level of quality we've been getting since the Zamasu arc.
Indeed! The very first episode of the Future Trunks arc felt very fresh. You are correct. Of course the two or three (I don't remember the exact number) mini-arc fillers afterwards were kinda reminiscent of Super's not-so-glorious days.
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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:18 pm

Spoiler Alert

Geekdom uploaded a video on SDBH episode 9 and I did as much research as I could to get my hands on this image.

https://youtu.be/6psaszrqFWc

Image

Personally, I actually believed that we would get this at one point after the introduction of Kamin and Oren.
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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by ShaggyBlanco » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:00 pm

And "Baby Vegeta 2.0" was about as unnecessary as expected...
I'm glad that they didn't job Jiren (yet) but since he never finished any of his fights I don't really know, the choreography in these is definetly getting better, I mean just watch Vegito Blue vs Cumber
"Godly" Ultra Instinct looks cool tho

Edit: Also, can't believe they actually skipped Kefla
Last edited by ShaggyBlanco on Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:33 pm

This episode confirms that Daishinkan does/may have knowledge of what is happening in the Multiverse but prefer not to act. And even when he acts, it's just for support purposes. So either Daishinkan already knew about the events of Future Trunks saga, or if someone had told him, he would have ignored it nonetheless.

Out of the two Ultra Instinct transformations, I'm glad Heroes chose the better one for this case. It was kinda interesting and cool here, only because Goku doesn't change much from his base form.

Next episode will be released in April, another shorter gap and one month prior to the release of UM8, which means the next episode may spoil what the arcade game will present. Speaking of the arcade, let's see how the events truly unfold there once the videos pop up.

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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:28 am

Well that was disappointing. Was really hoping for Jiren vs Cumber to not be cock blocked like that. Coulda also done without the possessed Vegeta thing...again. But seeing Goku just bitch slap him around was pretty funny. Next time something that's completely new and fresh concept. Goku and Vegeta. Did I say new and fresh? I meant old and tired now. Rivals teaming up is not special when they do it all the time. Personally despite despising Jiren, I'd still rather see Goku and Jiren doing the teaming up. Though he's still there so it can still happen.
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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:47 am

Ok. Not gonna lie. That was actually kinda cool. I forgot how much I missed seeing Jiren just being Jiren and wiping the floor with everyone that he fights. Goku punching Vegeta out of that control technique was awesome. Good job, Super DB Heroes. You actually managed to entertain me.

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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by DainIronfoot » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:02 am

Well well, that was quite the lovely episode. I thought the art looked great, the "Thor entering Wakanda" like entrance with the music was awesome and Jiren not being fodderized was a treat. I reckon if this had been a Super episode and 20-25 minutes, it would of had potential to be a favorite of mine (if done correctly). Still, that was a very enjoyable 9 minutes. There were so many nice shots to pick from for a new avatar, especially the face shot of UI Omen Goku.

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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:46 pm

Maybe I missed it, but was it explained how Vegeta and Trunks got to Universe 11?
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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:49 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:46 pm
Maybe I missed it, but was it explained how Vegeta and Trunks got to Universe 11?

No. It's not hard to imagine Whis or somebody did.
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Re: Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:56 pm

I have two problems with this episode

1. Super Oren shouldn't have white skin. All of Baby Vegeta forms had human skin color and possesed Caulifla/Kale also had normal skin. Why change it here?

2. Super Oren shouldn't be anywhere near Jiren's power. Oren and Kamin are weaker than full power Baby and even in Caulifla and Kale bodies they weren't that strong, so they do not provide as huge boost as Baby does. While Vegeta is stronger than girls + he has Strongest Form 1 here, he should still be too weak to compete against Jiren. Oren Vegeta in this form should be weaker than regular SSJB Vegeta or equal at best as well. But well, it's DBH so it's probably dumb to look for any logic.

Other than that it was pretty good episode.
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