Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

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superfan2024
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Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by superfan2024 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:08 pm

They only used the anime-only-made-for tracks, and the tracks from movies 6-9. What was the meaning for lack of variety???

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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by simtek34 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:41 pm

Based on what I know/remember reading on this very Forum, one reason was licensing issues with OST's from the other movies, the fact that it was super rushed, and the fact that they limited themselves to only songs on the 2006 "Dragon Ball Z BGM Collection" for having only the ones in the highest quality of sound. Some other songs from Movie 1, 3, and 12, if memory serves right, were used in the very early times in the beginning of the replacement before it was all finalized.
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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by superfan2024 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:00 pm

simtek34 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:41 pm
Based on what I know/remember reading on this very Forum, one reason was licensing issues with OST's from the other movies, the fact that it was super rushed, and the fact that they limited themselves to only songs on the 2006 "Dragon Ball Z BGM Collection" for having only the ones in the highest quality of sound. Some other songs from Movie 1, 3, and 12, if memory serves right, were used in the very early times in the beginning of the replacement before it was all finalized.
Do you have any clips from these examples? I'm very curious.

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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by SpiritBombTriumphant » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:52 am

Like what the other guy said, I believe they only used the songs off that 2006 remaster because they were remastered. They had the best sound. When you remember that a good half of that soundtrack's songs were vocal songs, they had maybe 20-30 to choose from for the entire 98 episode series. It was a rush job to replace the plagiarized score in what was considered a failed product. They didn't care to do anything else at that point. They just wanted it done as cheaply and quickly as possible. =(

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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:27 pm

SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:52 am
Like what the other guy said, I believe they only used the songs off that 2006 remaster because they were remastered. They had the best sound. When you remember that a good half of that soundtrack's songs were vocal songs, they had maybe 20-30 to choose from for the entire 98 episode series. It was a rush job to replace the plagiarized score in what was considered a failed product. They didn't care to do anything else at that point. They just wanted it done as cheaply and quickly as possible. =(
Episodes 96-98 don't sound as badly placed as 01-95 maybe because they were the first ones done with the Kikuchi music, and then 01-95 with little to no care. It's so weird to hear the Saiyan and Freeza arcs with music from the Cell arc.

There were countless Kikuchi BGMs (Dragon Ball and non-Dragon Ball) that TOEI could have used but they stuck to the limited ones in stereo. 😕

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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by TheRed259 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:07 pm

superfan2024 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:00 pm
simtek34 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:41 pm
Based on what I know/remember reading on this very Forum, one reason was licensing issues with OST's from the other movies, the fact that it was super rushed, and the fact that they limited themselves to only songs on the 2006 "Dragon Ball Z BGM Collection" for having only the ones in the highest quality of sound. Some other songs from Movie 1, 3, and 12, if memory serves right, were used in the very early times in the beginning of the replacement before it was all finalized.
Do you have any clips from these examples? I'm very curious.
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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by superfan2024 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:29 pm

Dragon Ball Kai episode 78 used this OST from DBZ Movie 11: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G33F_iYD12c

Dragon Ball Kai episode 82 used this OST from DBZ Movie 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnId6f3xcNo

As I've stated earlier, the Kikuchi version of Dragon Ball Kai typically only used the "anime-made for" tracks and the tracks from movies 6-9, so it's odd to see these two tracks in the series, even in the english dub which has been released for home video (implying that all the uses of Kikuchi for Dragon Ball Kai have been finalized).

Maybe there was a chance that the producers forgot to remove these tracks during the phase of having to re-insert Kikuchi tracks into Dragon Ball Kai?

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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by Danfun64 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:05 pm

superfan2024 wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:29 pm
Dragon Ball Kai episode 78 used this OST from DBZ Movie 11: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G33F_iYD12c
DBZ Movie 10, actually.
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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by superfan2024 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:54 pm

Danfun64 wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:05 pm
superfan2024 wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:29 pm
Dragon Ball Kai episode 78 used this OST from DBZ Movie 11: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G33F_iYD12c
DBZ Movie 10, actually.
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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by kei17 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:23 pm

There were multiple reasons why it's so limited:
  • They had no additional budget and time to digitize the tracks that have never been released on CD. They are all still being stored only on reel-to-reel tapes.
  • They wanted to avoid mono tracks that can sound distracting. (There are a few instances of mono tracks used in the final version of Kikuchi-Kai, but I think they just accidentally slipped in.)
  • They had to avoid any tracks containing melodies coming from the theme songs in Z.
There are still some cases that can't be explained by these reasons, like the absence of any tracks from DBZ movie 3, 12, and 13, which clear all the above conditions. At least some tracks from DBZ movie 3 and 12 were used in the temporary music placement aired on local TV channels in Japan and the CW in the United States, but they disppeared in the final mix for some reason. Maybe a right issue, but who knows?

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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by Sani007 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:28 am

kei17 wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:23 pm
There were multiple reasons why it's so limited:
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And what do you think, which is the better or less bad? Kai with Yamamoto Score or Kikuchi Score?

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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:34 pm

I was really pissed when they didn't play this track this trackin Kikuchi Kai. Like come on, this is my jam. Why the hell wasn't it played?
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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by Danfun64 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:41 am

I might be misremembering, but isn't that from DBZ Movie 1? That would explain it.
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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by Forte224 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:34 am

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:34 pm
I was really pissed when they didn't play this track this trackin Kikuchi Kai. Like come on, this is my jam. Why the hell wasn't it played?
That's my favorite Kikuchi track, and I agree, it's a travesty that it wasn't in Kai.
Danfun64 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:41 am
I might be misremembering, but isn't that from DBZ Movie 1? That would explain it.
Yup, it's from movie 1.

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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by Rafa Fast » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:09 pm

Well, first I'm gonna say a fact that nobody cares about. Unfortunately I never watched the first half of Kai (the first 98 eps), just The Final Chapters in it's release on Latin America in 2017, I live in Brazil, and for some reason Cartoon Network avoided to reprise any of the first 98 episodes and they just kept reprising TFC again and again until the anime dropped somewhere during 2018, so I don't have any idea how the Replacement went here, so I can't do anything except for working in a opinion from what the guys above said.
  • I believe that Toei actually had budget to digitalize the missing Kikuchi tracks, but not time for it, so they hadn't any other choice but get stuck to the stereo tracks.
  • As the guys above showed some examples, The group behind the BGM placement slipped some Movies 1-3/10-13 tracks in the first replacement, with them being replaced by the stereo tracks in the Blu-Ray releases.
  • Let's not forget about the Original Dragon Ball Tracks! But I think the entire collection was in mono...I thinking if
    They would use them if their audio was in stereo.
  • Also, Let's not forget that they probably wanted to avoid the tracks that are OP/END themes arrangements, this explains why not even a single track from M1700 (Buu Saga) Score didn't show up in the Replacement too, since the M1700 score in almost it's entirety is just a lot of variations on We Gotta Power and We Were Angels (with M1716 and M1717 being the only exceptions).
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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by kei17 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:40 pm

Rafa Fast wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:09 pm
I believe that Toei actually had budget to digitalize the missing Kikuchi tracks, but not time for it, so they hadn't any other choice but get stuck to the stereo tracks.
No, they had already run out of the budget at the time. I directly asked one of the staff members of Kai on Facebook and he confirmed this. I can't say who exactly it is, though. To be more precise, they didn't have any budget for music in general from the beginning.

Let's not forget about the Original Dragon Ball Tracks! But I think the entire collection was in mono...I thinking if
They would use them if their audio was in stereo.
The tracks from the first recording are available in stereo.

Also, Let's not forget that they probably wanted to avoid the tracks that are OP/END themes arrangements, this explains why not even a single track from M1700 (Buu Saga) Score didn't show up in the Replacement too, since the M1700 score in almost it's entirety is just a lot of variations on We Gotta Power and We Were Angels (with M1716 and M1717 being the only exceptions).
I've already pointed that out in my last post.

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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by GhostEmperorX » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:46 pm

That portion really explains quite a lot, thanks.

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Re: Why Kai 1.0's Kikuchi Score was so limited.

Post by G1Ravage » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:38 pm

It's a shame what happened to Kai. The original DBZ is iconic to me partly because of the soundtrack. Having a refreshed version, with filler removed, and a rocking new soundtrack was a fun experience. But when the OST had to be replaced with haphazardly placed Kikuchi scores, it just wasn't worth watching anymore. :(

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