GT and super similarities

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SSJmole
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GT and super similarities

Post by SSJmole » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:18 pm

Hello. Note this topic is not bash anyone or anything but to explore the similarities both shows have. Before watchi g super online I read the "Akira toriyama is involved with super so it's much better" but after watching what I can (tournament of power saga not come out on Blu-ray yet) then reewatched all of z I was shocked how many similarities they both have. Was Akira toriyama involved more with GT then we've been led to believe? Let's look at some.

Dragonballs used to turn people to children again. GT Goku , super pilaf and co. It's an odd one to start with as the odds of this happening twice in two different visions of where to go next is slim. Yet it happened twice.

Vegeta is a family man this night be the logical place to go buy it's funny they both settled on this. Super he takes them on a trip , GT takes his daughter shopping. It's funny they both ended up with similar vegetas

Our dragon balls are better. Both have dragonballs more powerful they use. Super has Super Dragon balls , GT has black star balls.

Old enemy new form both feature an old enemy returning with a new form. GT has Super 17 , Super has Golden Frieza. I loved both of these but it's funny both had this

Gohans not mystic both dropped his mystic / ultimate form and seem to keep him SSJ 1. He might go 2 but he really doesn't do anything of note in main fights any more. That's sad to me as I heard cell Saga was originally the end of Dragonball and Gohan looked to be the big heroe. The buy he goes mystic. Now he's relegated to the level yamcha and Tien were at in Z . I.e he's now only there to get to beat up till Goku and vegeta show up. I like Gohan this annoys me.



I avoided listing extra forms , fusion ect .. as that's just because it continues Z and those are series norms. But I'm sure people may have other. Stuff.

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Re: GT and super similarities

Post by sintzu » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:51 pm

Goku and Vegeta are the only 2 Saiyans who get new transformations.

In Super Trunks' past of altering time results in Zamasu going after him. In GT King Vegeta's past of wiping out the Tuffles results in Baby going after his son and the other Saiyans.
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Re: GT and super similarities

Post by sunsetshimmer » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:02 pm

Baby and Zamasu are good example here:
-Both invented their own version of SSJ (SSJ "White" and SSJ Rose)
-Both had mutated SSJ with white hair (Zamasu only when fused)
-Both saw saiyans as mindless barbarians yet wanted their power
-Both stole saiyan body
-Both felt their race is superior and that world will be peaceful if others are killed (or turned into Tuffles in case of Baby)

Another examples:
-Baby Vegeta and Copy Vegeta looked very similar
-Pilaf gang turns themselves into kids vs Pilaf gang turns Goku into a kid
-Both has Android 17 return with insane power
-Both have Goku powering-up in similar ritual form
-Both have villain becoming much stronger just by going golden lol
-Both reduced Gohan's screentime yet made him better character than he was in Z (excluding early Buu saga because i absolutely love Gohan in school and acting as Great Saiyaman)
-Both have Pan bullying Trunks :lol:
-Both have Vegeta being the one who wanted to fuse (in DBS manga at least)
-Both have almost the same name of final episode (DBGT: "Goodbye, Goku... 'Till the Day We Meet Again" vs DBS: "The Miraculous Conclusion! Farewell, Goku! Until We Meet Again!")
SSJmole wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:18 pm
Vegeta is a family man this night be the logical place to go buy it's funny they both settled on this. Super he takes them on a trip , GT takes his daughter shopping. It's funny they both ended up with similar vegetas
It's a bit different as Vegeta in Super is still a jerk and more often behaves like his Cell saga version than his post Buu saga self. And he is still obsessed with surpassing Goku.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: GT and super similarities

Post by Goten_jr » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:36 pm

-Mosco is based on Luuds design
-Future Trunks has the same scarf as a GT Trunks the only difference is the color
-Ledgic's race warrior as a Freeza's soldier in Ressurection F manga

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Re: GT and super similarities

Post by sunsetshimmer » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:05 pm

Goten_jr wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:36 pm
-Mosco is based on Luuds design
Right, i forgot about this one.
Another interesting thing is that real god of destruction, creator of Mosco is called Myūru (ミュール) and creator of Luud was called Myū (ミュー).

Nothing will ever convince me it's just a coincidence. Reference is obvious here.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: GT and super similarities

Post by ruler9871 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:43 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:02 pm


It's a bit different as Vegeta in Super is still a jerk and more often behaves like his Cell saga version than his post Buu saga self. And he is still obsessed with surpassing Goku.
https://twitter.com/MJxTV/status/1002445514724474881

GT Vegeta was also the same guy who cheated his way into SSJ4 just to catch up to Goku, and would bug Goku into giving him a rematch after the Baby arc.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: GT and super similarities

Post by SSJmole » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:57 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:02 pm

Baby and black good examples
SSJmole wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:18 pm
Vegeta is a family man this night be the logical place to go buy it's funny they both settled on this. Super he takes them on a trip , GT takes his daughter shopping. It's funny they both ended up with similar vegetas
It's a bit different as Vegeta in Super is still a jerk and more often behaves like his Cell saga version than his post Buu saga self. And he is still obsessed with surpassing Goku.
To be fair it's more friendly rivalry than cell. Like he literally turns down the opportunity to train and get stronger because he wants to be there for pregnant bulma.

Cell Saga didn't even care about his son. It's unfair to see them as the same. He's evolved but kept recognisable elements. Like future trunks in cell most of saga vegeta was dismissive. Super he was a lot softer to him.

He just has a friendly rivalry with Goku. In fact they work together very well in super. Look at him helping cabba too when cell Saga he'd help no one get stronger. Trunks was told he can watch but vegeta won't train him

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Re: GT and super similarities

Post by Gokitalo » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:06 am

Right, I agree with SSJmole: Vegeta's desire to surpass, or at least keep up with Goku, was much more of an unhealthy obsession in the Cell and early Buu Saga, whereas in Super (and the Resurrection F film) it really is more of a friendly rivalry (I mean, as friendly as Vegeta gets, anyway). Vegeta does talk sometimes about becoming stronger than Goku, but I think he's really more interested in making sure he at least keeps up. That grief and frustration he used to feel whenever Goku was in the lead is largely absent now.
SSJmole wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:18 pm
That's sad to me as I heard cell Saga was originally the end of Dragonball and Gohan looked to be the big heroe. The buy he goes mystic. Now he's relegated to the level yamcha and Tien were at in Z . I.e he's now only there to get to beat up till Goku and vegeta show up. I like Gohan this annoys me.
Actually, Kanzenshuu seems to have debunked that: Toriyama's never outright stated the Cell Saga was meant to be the finale of the Dragon Ball Z Saga. It's just where a lot of adaptations seem to cut things off (the first Budokai game, Burst Limit, even Kai), possibly because a lot of people consider it a good cut-off point.
sunsetshimmer wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:02 pm
-Baby Vegeta and Copy Vegeta looked very similar
Definitely, and I think the Copy Vegeta story was a deliberate homage-- or soft parody-- of Baby Vegeta. A friend of mine pointed out (and I suspect people of Kanzenshuu made the same observation) that the sight gag where Vegeta essentially has a pacifier in his mouth is another clue: he literally looks like a "baby Vegeta" in that moment.

Glad to see a thread like this. Not sure if it was done consciously, but I've always considered Super to partly be Toriyama's "response" to GT and other attempts to continue his work. I might do a larger post about it further down the line.

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Re: GT and super similarities

Post by sunsetshimmer » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:43 pm

Another Baby reference could be Watagash and his abilty to infect people. Especially when we look at his form after possessing Barry which looked like SSJ4 without clothes.

Speaking of SSJ4, Broly's wrath form in DBS movie kinda works like much weaker version of SSJ4. as it's just regular Oozaru power in base form that is still much weaker than SSJ form. I wouldn't call it a reference as Broly doesn't need tail for this form, but it's interesting.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: GT and super similarities

Post by SSJmole » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:42 am

Gokitalo wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:06 am
SSJmole wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:18 pm
That's sad to me as I heard cell Saga was originally the end of Dragonball and Gohan looked to be the big heroe. The buy he goes mystic. Now he's relegated to the level yamcha and Tien were at in Z . I.e he's now only there to get to beat up till Goku and vegeta show up. I like Gohan this annoys me.
Actually, Kanzenshuu seems to have debunked that: Toriyama's never outright stated the Cell Saga was meant to be the finale of the Dragon Ball Z Saga. It's just where a lot of adaptations seem to cut things off (the first Budokai game, Burst Limit, even Kai), possibly because a lot of people consider it a good cut-off point.
Ah fair. I also heard that and he got death threats to bring Goku back which he did for buu saga. It's misinformation I'll put hands up to that and say sorry dude

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Re: GT and super similarities

Post by Gokitalo » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:35 am

I don't know if he got any threats, but Toriyama did say in Daizenshuu 2 (translation here) that he considered making Gohan the lead before deciding that leaving Goku as the main character worked better:
And then the Cell arc ended. Did you think that everyone felt you would put Gohan into the leading role?
I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.

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Re: GT and super similarities

Post by SSJmole » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:38 am

Gokitalo wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:35 am
I don't know if he got any threats, but Toriyama did say in Daizenshuu 2 (translation here) that he considered making Gohan the lead before deciding that leaving Goku as the main character worked better:
And then the Cell arc ended. Did you think that everyone felt you would put Gohan into the leading role?
I intended to put Gohan into the leading role. It didn’t work out. I felt that compared to Goku, he was ultimately not suited for the part.
That's cool. Thank you. Like I said I admit that's my fault for believing misinformation..





Another similarity I can think of is final arc (anime at least) The cause of the evil dragons was the heroes like Goku relying too much on the balls. The tournament if power in super happened because of gokus need to fight. So in both situations the events happened because of the heroes through actions we take for granted , dragon ball wishing and needing to fight stronger people.

Though not everyone may count that lol

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Re: GT and super similarities

Post by SSJmole » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:04 pm

Gokitalo wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:06 am
Glad to see a thread like this. Not sure if it was done consciously, but I've always considered Super to partly be Toriyama's "response" to GT and other attempts to continue his work. I might do a larger post about it further down the line.
I'm interested in hearing this

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Re: GT and super similarities

Post by Yalos » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:34 am

Both of them features Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, Pan, Goten, Trunks, Bulma, Bra, Chi-Chi, Videl, Mr. Satan, Majin Buu, Master Roshi, Krillin, Android 18, Android 17, Marron, Frieza, Shenron, King Kai, Kibito Kai, Elder Kai, Yamcha, Puar, Oolong, Tien, Chiaotzu, Ox-King, Dednde, Mr. Popo, Emperor Pilaf, Mai and Shu.

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