"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:39 pm

I most definitely enjoyed this chapter (47th), so I have some high hopes for the next one. I kinda expect Moro to eventually evolve into his Prime form and for Buu to fight with him a little more, as we also get some answers to the questions that we have as of now, concerning Buu's apparent resistance to Moro's techniques.

I would like to see fit buu in the manga tbh. Buu getting a power-up (nothing too great, considering that Moro isn't just a brawler) would make him a bit more relevant again.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:47 pm

nato25 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:37 pm
Whats the plot hole exactly? Why wouldn't vegeta be able to remember his actions on Namek?

Loved this chapter. For everyone complaining about Moro, I feel like we're passing judgement too early. We dont know what his wish will be or his overall motivations. Slow reveals are probably better than an info dump like what happened with first form Cell against Piccolo.

My only complaint is if Moro can sense Dragon Balls, why did it take 3 days?
Black and Cell before the info dump is how you build a character with mysterious motives. Moro is just boring on top of being a incompetent villain.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:52 pm

TKA wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:51 pm
Zamasu55 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:50 pm
So, after seeing Ssj Caulifla holding her own against Golden Freeza, Ssj Berserker Kale slaughtering half the fighters during the ToP and then losing to the weakest Pride Troopers, Ssj Kefla losing to Gohan and freaking Muten Roshi dodging freaking Jiren's punches, we have a new low, ladies and gentlemen:

Good Buu, the weakest version of Majin Buu, beating the crap out of somebody who was trading blows with Ssj God Vegeta way before absorbing his ki.

:thumbup:
Is this a parody? Are you being serious?

Because you removed the context from all of those. If you're being sincere, this post belongs on youtube.

Frieza NEVER fought Caulifla seriously. Kale was losing because every seasoned fighter figured her out because wild animals are stupid. Kafla should lose to Gohan, given the fact that Kale and Caulifla were injured and fatigued when they fused and the fact that Gohan is back to his Buu arc level. Roshi dodged a punch from Jiren when he was holding back because he actively was trying not to kill anyone; the second Jiren saw Roshi dodge him, he simply held back less and then instantly knocked him out. Finally, it was stated that while Moro was fighting Goku and Vegeta he was actively absorbing their ki and powering himself up with the planet's genki.

There are legitimate things to criticize, but this ain't it, chief.
Nope, these are things to criticize.
- Caulifla was a Ssj. Freeza went Golden, even if he was holding back she shouldn't have seen him coming at all.
- Kale still eliminated almost everyone. And she got schooled by somebody who later got schooled by ROSHI.
- Kefla should lose to Gohan because he's back to his Buu arc level? Oh my. As if mattered, since Buu arc characters are completely irrelevant since BOG.
- Roshi dodged a punch? Only one? Okay... :? and no, Jiren wasn't holding back. And in the original manga, characters that don't want to kill someone still manage to one-shot their opponent.
And lastly, Moro, while holding back, was much stronger than Ssj Vegeta, who has surpassed Good Buu like 3 arcs ago.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:57 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:23 pm
Kanassa wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:20 am

And Goku has done the same to many planets with no damage being talked about, unless we're gonna find out that Frieza was a convenient scapegoat and Goku was the one who accidentally destroyed Namek.
So... What's your point again? That's it's weird that Vegeta should be asking for the planet to be restored to its normal state before Moro invaded? Is this supposed to be OOC? Pretty sure Moro taking energy from the planet itself constitutes a lot more harm to it than busting up some mountains. Especially when we've seen he can literally suck the energy dry from planets beyond anything Goku has ever done with Spirit bomb.

Zamasu55 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:50 pm
So, after seeing Ssj Caulifla holding her own against Golden Freeza, Ssj Berserker Kale slaughtering half the fighters during the ToP and then losing to the weakest Pride Troopers, Ssj Kefla losing to Gohan and freaking Muten Roshi dodging freaking Jiren's punches, we have a new low, ladies and gentlemen:

Good Buu, the weakest version of Majin Buu, beating the crap out of somebody who was trading blows with Ssj God Vegeta way before absorbing his ki.

:thumbup:
Caulifla never stood a chance against Golden Frieza who likes to play with his food.

Kale literally burned through most of her energy before she tackled on the Pride Troopers. This is part of her lore as the LSSJ, where she self-destructs because of her power, and Vegeta mentioned it.

Gohan got significantly stronger. That's how DB operates. He was holding back all the time until he faced Kefla.

Roshi is nothing compared to Jiren. Jiren neck chopped him, which is codeword in DB for lightly tapping someone out when the power difference is enormous.

Buu/Daikaioshin is a counter to Moro. No absorption = no getting stronger for Moro, which is not what happened to Vegeta. He was taking energy from him and Goku right from the start.

Your idea and placement of power levels argument is just wrong here, and you used bad examples.
- It's Golden Freeza, a god tier transformation, versus a common Super Saiyan. He should've stomped her regardless of how serious he was. This is how Dragon Ball works... worked, actually.

- So I assume that Kale would've lost to Roshi, who literally makes a fool out of the fourth strongest person in U11?

- Yeah, but you should also mention what happens before all of that.

- So Moro is weaker than a Ssj now? Because he was dominating him way before Vegeta got drained out.

Also, this is Good Buu, the weakest version of all.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:06 pm

Good chapter. Some nice moments like Vegeta talking about the way he treated the Namekians long ago. I love that Buu is getting involved now.

Moro is still uninteresting and we're still on Namek. Those are probably my two biggest gripes with this arc. I still don't know if I wanna see the anime return with this arc. Overall, it's not that great, but it has its moments.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by YamiGoku » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:35 pm

For me, Roshi evading JIren has to be one of the most insulting things this franchise has presented to me, only surpassed by the Resurrection F Arc (Anime), and only because that entire Arc was trash.

1* was because Jiren was holding back?

how is someone in God of Destruction level unable to see the moves of an earthling weaker than Krillin?

so master Roshi is not supposed to move in slow- mo to Jiren eyes? how in the world a fighter that builds himself to the top of the universes tiers of strenght, (and god knows how many fights in the process he had) gets tricked by an old retired master who couldnt beat King Piccolo on DB?

and even if Jiren is holding back to not kill him, he doesn't need to hold everything back, just his strength, not his speed or senses, he should be abel to read Roshi in a second and make his move before Roshi can blink.

2* even if you swallow all that or dont care about power levels, making the ultimate fighter of the tournament of the universes, the final foe of the arc, and the one who can only be matched by Goku when he archives UI, look bad against freaking Master Roshi makes everyone look bad.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:47 pm

-Chapter 47-

Toyotaro is trying really hard to make Merus seem cool, but it feels so forced that I can't take him seriously. Moro is still cool though.
Buu vs Basil didn't happen in the manga, so this is the first time Buu does something in the manga and it feels good.

The worst thing of this arc is easily Goku/Vegeta duo. It's just repetitive at this point. I would switch them for Teen Goten/Trunks and nerf Moro.
I would like to see Piccolo play a big role here too, since it involves his home planet.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:25 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:57 pm

- It's Golden Freeza, a god tier transformation, versus a common Super Saiyan. He should've stomped her regardless of how serious he was. This is how Dragon Ball works... worked, actually.

- So I assume that Kale would've lost to Roshi, who literally makes a fool out of the fourth strongest person in U11?

- Yeah, but you should also mention what happens before all of that.

- So Moro is weaker than a Ssj now? Because he was dominating him way before Vegeta got drained out.

Also, this is Good Buu, the weakest version of all.
- But he was 100% stomping her. Only Kale's sneak attacks threw him off-balance or off-guard, and she's significantly stronger than Caulifla. "God-tier" is a classification that is about as useful as "Super Saiyan 3 tier" or because it's not an absolute scale of power.

- Now why would you assume that? Do you think Roshi could actually hurt Kale? Do you think Roshi can coordinate attacks the way that U11 can, the same coordination that garnered praise from Whis himself? Roshi used a flimsy version of "UI," y'know the technique that allows anyone to auto-dodge? If that were the situation, all I would assume is that Roshi could dodge her straightforward, linear attacks. That's it.

- Okay, fair enough. The build-up just quite wasn't there. We all know it's possible to train someone stronger than yourself. But Gohan getting that much stronger, breaking past previously established realms of power, is just on par for the course.

- My impression of Moro is that he grows stronger with the opponent he faces. It's not that overly complicated. It's like Moro's meter kept going up, but Vegeta's kept going down at a much faster rate. Vegeta boosted his meter up with every transformation while it was still draining but Moro just kept catching up to him.

Personally, I think the idea of power levels is what greatly holds DB back. It's what causes other characters like Piccolo and Buu to be seen as irrelevant. Since BoG, the "power levels" have clearly been getting toned down even further. Punches not causing universe-shaking quakes. Look, SSG Vegeta could actually get hurt by the life energy of the planet itself. Even in the Buu arc, we had 7/8-year old SSJ kids being able to give 18 a run for her money, and a fusion of them being a contender to stop the latest evil threat at the time. There's no point of seeing Good Buu as the "weakest" Buu especially when standards can and do change over time.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:29 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:52 pm

Nope, these are things to criticize.
- Caulifla was a Ssj. Freeza went Golden, even if he was holding back she shouldn't have seen him coming at all.
- Kale still eliminated almost everyone. And she got schooled by somebody who later got schooled by ROSHI.
- Kefla should lose to Gohan because he's back to his Buu arc level? Oh my. As if mattered, since Buu arc characters are completely irrelevant since BOG.
- Roshi dodged a punch? Only one? Okay... :? and no, Jiren wasn't holding back. And in the original manga, characters that don't want to kill someone still manage to one-shot their opponent.
And lastly, Moro, while holding back, was much stronger than Ssj Vegeta, who has surpassed Good Buu like 3 arcs ago.
Not a single thing you said makes an iota of sense as a rebuttal to anything I've said. Literally all of your points are "I don't care what happened. It should be how I want it to be."

If this is how you truly feel, stop reading/watching stories; start making power level charts in a power level group.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tsufuru » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:18 pm

why can buu give moro a fight.
i understand he cant absorb his energy but moro was winning against ssjg vegeta and survived a kick from ssb vegeta.
fat buu is like maybe ssj3 level.
the fire hurt ssjg vegeta yet couldnt do anything to fat buu.
he easiely kicked away a blast from moro.
lets see if they give a explanation why buu can give him a fight next chapter.
keep in mind moro got even stronger in this chapter as stated by goku.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SaiyaSith » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:28 pm

The ending of this last chapter gives me an impression that this is going to be like a filler arc...
Tsufuru wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:18 pm
why can buu give moro a fight.
i understand he cant absorb his energy but moro was winning against ssjg vegeta and survived a kick from ssb vegeta.
fat buu is like maybe ssj3 level.
the fire hurt ssjg vegeta yet couldnt do anything to fat buu.
he easiely kicked away a blast from moro.
lets see if they give a explanation why buu can give him a fight next chapter.
keep in mind moro got even stronger in this chapter as stated by goku.
I'm going to guess it's because Buu is a magic user or something?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:32 pm

I think it's going to be one of two things -

- Vegeta had already lost power as a SSG (I don't like this one, as the characters should have then noticed it sooner).

- Boo is more powerful for having the Dai Kaioshin's memory awakened/in control. I think this could make sense, as Fat Boo was originally weaker because Dai Kaioshin restricted his power. That restriction could be gone now.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by nato25 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:31 pm

Saiga wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:32 pm
I think it's going to be one of two things -

- Vegeta had already lost power as a SSG (I don't like this one, as the characters should have then noticed it sooner).

- Boo is more powerful for having the Dai Kaioshin's memory awakened/in control. I think this could make sense, as Fat Boo was originally weaker because Dai Kaioshin restricted his power. That restriction could be gone now.
I know Buu didn't fight in the pre-ToP tournament in the manga but did he also not train? Buu showed immense improvement in the anime after training once he was motivated.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:44 pm

I don't recall if he trained in the manga or not. But his power in the anime was pretty unclear and the manga doesn't really follow the anime's power-scaling - we didn't have blue-tier 17 for example.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:48 am

Isn't it possible that Buu could have inherited Dai Kaioshin's yuki and shoki when the memories were brought back to the surface? Kais seem to have a disproportionate tendency to rely on magic and psychic abilities instead of physical might. Sadly, that doesn't explain Buu's ability to physically fight with Moro. To be able to fight physically would require harmonious build-up of his physical power or something on top of his mind and courage, I think.

Maybe Toyotaro should have had Buu fight using just telekinesis and magic instead of muddying the waters by having him throw punches and punt projectiles away.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:57 am

Are people truly this bothered by Boo being able to hold his own against Moro? I'm not disputing that there is a power inconsistency, but is it so bad that it keeps people from enjoying the chapter?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:08 am

Michsi wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:57 am
Are people truly this bothered by Boo being able to hold his own against Moro? I'm not disputing that there is a power inconsistency, but is it so bad that it keeps people from enjoying the chapter?
Eh, if there's no explanation whatsoever I would definitely be bothered.

It's not like this is an amazing chapter, after all. Boo getting to fight is pretty much the only good thing in it so if there's a problem with that I can see people disliking the chapter.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:36 am

Decent chapter.

What I liked:

Vegeta's plan to restore Namek isn't just great because it shows his development, it's great because it gives some actual weight to Moro's merciless slaughtering of the Namekians. I appreciate villains like King Piccolo for this exact reason; an antagonist's goals should always serve to hinder and provoke the protagonist's. Compelling villains don't necessarily need super complex motives if they can affect and motivate the heroes in refreshing, often cathartic ways. Moro doesn't quite nail that aspect yet, but this is a good start. This is progress.

The interactions in general were surprisingly on point. Goku and Vegeta continue to have outstanding chemistry, and I liked that nervous exchange of smirks as they were preparing to face off against Moro but still too ki-deprived to feel optimistic about the results. Boo getting Daikaioshin's memories is almost annoyingly out of left field, but it's nice to see a purpose-driven, justified anger from the character that isn't the usual happy, lazy, tantrum-throwing Boo we've been exposed to throughout the rest of Super. Even the Galactic Patrol's dynamics feel like a step up from previous chapters.

What I didn't like:

Goku and Vegeta have recovered and Moro is well on his way to collecting all seven Dragon Balls, but if all this sounds too familiar, that's because it is. We're still moving at a snail's pace. Last month's chapter already established those things, and the only real story progression this time involves the Galactic Patrol showing up and opening for a fight with Boo that's only just getting started. I don't like this anime-esque pacing the manga wants to embrace for the new arc because I don't think it's good storytelling and I don't think it complements the format of a monthly manga either. Toriyama knew how to keep his stories brisk and interesting even when they were lengthy, despite being on a weekly schedule. Super's previous arcs kept that same momentum. There's no excuse for this.

Overall:

Not bad, but hardly amazing, and I can name at least a dozen better chapters in this manga. I liked it compared to what we've been getting in most previous chapters in the arc, but the story has a long way to go if I'm going to seriously enjoy Toyotaro's apparently self-made recipe. He's getting on the right track with the characters, but still veering off-course when it comes to proper structure and flow. If characterization is the meat on the bones then progression is the moisture level, and right now I'm tasting a lot of dry ass meat.
Last edited by Marlowe89 on Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:56 am

Saiga wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:08 am
Michsi wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:57 am
Are people truly this bothered by Boo being able to hold his own against Moro? I'm not disputing that there is a power inconsistency, but is it so bad that it keeps people from enjoying the chapter?
Eh, if there's no explanation whatsoever I would definitely be bothered.

It's not like this is an amazing chapter, after all. Boo getting to fight is pretty much the only good thing in it so if there's a problem with that I can see people disliking the chapter.
Boo just seems versatile as far as power goes and the biggest thing he has on his side is immortality and imperviousness. Technically, Moro did manage to inflict what should've been a lethal blow fairly early on in their fight, but Boo's physical structure is built to withstand these types of attack.
Marlowe89 wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:36 am
Boo getting Daikaioshin's memories is almost annoyingly out of left field,
I feel like it shouldn't be though. If he was able to use Piccolo's knowledge when he absorbed him, it stands to reason that he would also have access to his memories, as well as everyone else's he has absorbed.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:06 am

Probably the best Chapter of this whole arc. Something of interest finally happened.

Moro is still a dreadfully boring villain though, no way Toriyama up with him.

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