Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

I already have.

Hits improved Time skip makes his attack "power up" since it's better and can actually hit Goku now. Doesn't mean he got stronger.

You are ignoring multiple characters stating he didnt get stronger at all and then their big power difference is pretty obvious in E40.

The "he didn't get stronger" statements were when Hit tried to power up JUST LIKE SAIYANS VIA TRANSFORMING. That screaming and yelling Hit did was trying to mimic them. However, Hit's attack strength did INDEED POWER UP WHEN HE IMPROVED HIMSELF AFTERWARDS.

This was confirmed by Goku when he said HIT's ATTACK got him real good [damaging him enough to bring him to the floor] AFTER powering up...AS EXPECTED.

No.

Goku means Hit's attack got him good because it got improved. It went from 0.1 seconds to 0.2, meaning Goku can't predict it now. It has nothing to do with strength. Even when Hit increased his Time Skip to 0.5 seconds and 1 second, not a mention of strength was made.

And you keep ignoring E40. Hit is shown to be way weaker than a exhausted KKx10 Blue Goku.

You are factually wrong and are mixing scenarios. Hit being weaker than KKX10 Blue Goku does not change the fact that Hit's strength increased.

Goku's statement about Hit's attack strength getting him good after powering up was concerning the punch. The flashback even focused on the gut punch that put him to the floor. When earlier after trying to power up like Saiyans do none of Hit's DIRECT attacks which he LANDED even affected Blue Goku.

[ruler9871]

Power is not everything.

Yes it is in Dragonball. Don't be in denial:
viewtopic.php?t=42914

[ZombieVito]

The "he didn't get stronger" statements were when Hit tried to power up JUST LIKE SAIYANS VIA TRANSFORMING. That screaming and yelling Hit did was trying to mimic them. However, Hit's attack strength did INDEED POWER UP WHEN HE IMPROVED HIMSELF AFTERWARDS.

This was confirmed by Goku when he said HIT's ATTACK got him real good [damaging him enough to bring him to the floor] AFTER powering up...AS EXPECTED.

No.

Goku means Hit's attack got him good because it got improved. It went from 0.1 seconds to 0.2, meaning Goku can't predict it now. It has nothing to do with strength. Even when Hit increased his Time Skip to 0.5 seconds and 1 second, not a mention of strength was made.

And you keep ignoring E40. Hit is shown to be way weaker than a exhausted KKx10 Blue Goku.

You are factually wrong and are mixing scenarios. Hit being weaker than KKX10 Blue Goku does not change the fact that Hit's strength increased.

Goku's statement about Hit's attack strength getting him good after powering up was concerning the punch. The flashback even focused on the gut punch that put him to the floor. When earlier after trying to power up like Saiyans do none of Hit's DIRECT attacks which he LANDED even affected Blue Goku.

Hit is literally stated by multiple people to not get stronger after improving his time skip and hitting Goku. Only reason Goku hit the floor is because he got caught of guard.

Best to agree to disagree and move on. I'm tired of having to repeat myself.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Power is not everything.

Yes it is in Dragonball. Don't be in denial:
viewtopic.php?t=42914

I am not in denial, but are you suggesting that power alone is the key to victory, always?

I am inclined to believe that it matters the most nowadays, however not taking into account the rest parameters of a fight is what it means to be in denial. If strategy and tactics weren't needed, then why do we still get the "Goku is a fighting genius" thing etc. ?

I mean, Ultra Instinct is pure skill. It has power, yes (because if it didn't then punching Jiren would have absolutely no effect) but in the end, Jiren with his great power, stood in awe in front of the form of Mastered Ultra Instinct.

Jiren was skilled too, but everything that Goku did was instant, without too much thought on it, instinctive, yet already planned. It kinda brought back the need for skill.

[Miracles]

OK. We can move on but people should get the story straight first. The confusion is happening about characters stating Hit didn't power up. But they neglect the context of those statements. Which were concerning Hit not getting stronger through yelling the way Saiyans do for powering up. Hit himself stated he powered up his time skip. Then Goku further adds Hit's attack strength powered up as well...

Spoiler:

Here is when Hit tries to power up like Saiayns BUT doesn't get stronger...Proof is that he does not damage Goku...



















This is where Hit powered himself up..He actually damages Goku unlike the images above....







The expalantion how Hit tried to power up like Saiyans through yelling but couldn't...






Now Hit and others stating he did INDEED power up but in a different way...














After Hit explains how he powers up...As well as his time skip, Goku is adding to the fact that Hit's strength increased TOO. Due to that power up... Notice How Goku is talking about Hit's attack strength and not time skip for the simple fact that he is saying he can only take a few more of those hits...So the story wasn't just talking time skip increasing but attack strength as well...

So the story wasn't just talking time skip increasing but attack strength as well...

[CJStriker_CBR]

So do you like, just materialize whenever somebody mentions Ribrianne?

Nice to Talk to You Again PFM18, That is cause Kanzenshuu has one of the BEST Forum Search Engines I have come across in a Forum Site, Easier and Gets right to who and/or what you are searching for! Others in my lifetime of Forum Search Engines sadly have not been as nice or easy at times, so Kanzenshuu makes search for the Topics I want to talk about simple!

Indeed Ribrianne and Universe 2 are the main topics I like to talk about when Talk feel justified and I felt to finally get in on this discussion since it has been going on for so Long.

[Hugo Boss]

After Hit explains how he powers up...As well as his time skip, Goku is adding to the fact that Hit's strength increased TOO. Due to that power up... Notice How Goku is talking about Hit's attack strength and not time skip for the simple fact that he is saying he can only take a few more of those hits...So the story wasn't just talking time skip increasing but attack strength as well...

You had all this trouble to pick up the frames. Yet you didn’t realize the point. Goku is not adding anything that Hit didn’t addressed. “Power up” is not referring to battle power in this context. It’s as simple as, just like Vegeta, Goku couldn’t avoid being hit. He was still planning to counter Hit by predicting where he would be after 0.2 seconds, but Hit confused him by powering up to 0.5 seconds.

[Miracles]

After Hit explains how he powers up...As well as his time skip, Goku is adding to the fact that Hit's strength increased TOO. Due to that power up... Notice How Goku is talking about Hit's attack strength and not time skip for the simple fact that he is saying he can only take a few more of those hits...So the story wasn't just talking time skip increasing but attack strength as well...

You had all this trouble to pick up the frames. Yet you didn’t realize the point. Goku is not adding anything that Hit didn’t addressed. “Power up” is not referring to battle power in this context. It’s as simple as, just like Vegeta, Goku couldn’t avoid being hit. He was still planning to counter Hit by predicting where he would be after 0.2 seconds, but Hit confused him by powering up to 0.5 seconds.

I went through the trouble to pick up context for you. That Goku stated Hit's attack strength increased after powering up too. As demonstrated; when before, Hit couldn't damage Goku [as the images show] but after the increase he does. The narration backs this up even more when Goku states he can only take a few more hits from Hit due to his power up.

[ZombieVito]

So changing topics.

What do you guys think about Corrupted Merged Zamasu and his stamina? Was he getting weaker as he fought Vegetto or was he at full power when he faced Trunks with his Genki Sword?

[SupremeKai25]

So changing topics.

What do you guys think about Corrupted Merged Zamasu and his stamina? Was he getting weaker as he fought Vegetto or was he at full power when he faced Trunks with his Genki Sword?

Either Shin or Gowasu outright state that he is falling apart both mentally and physically, didn't they?

[Grand Marshal 1]

Yeah, due to his partial immortality, I am inclined to believe that in terms of physical power, he was always at his peak. Zamasu could not get weaker. It was that the saiyans got very strong that he resorted in such forms (corruption, giantification etc.).

But I actually have a question as well. What happened to Goku's healing abilities as a Super Saiyan God after the movie? It was not even mentioned ever again. Why not having something unique in the form?

I even went as far to think that life risking forms (let us say an unstable KK×20 Blue, or a Power Stressed PSSJB) that draw the user's life force and shorten their lifespan in a way, could be used in conjuction with the healing abilities of SSJG to make up for sustaining the form. Now that could have been op.

[Hugo Boss]

Goku stated Hit's attack strength increased after powering up too.

That’s not exactly what Goku implied. Hit couldn’t damage Goku before, because he wasn’t able to deliver solid hits like he was doing against Vegeta with only 0.1 seconds. Once Hit “powered up” to 0.2 seconds, this particular attack went through. Goku is basically saying “his attack got me real good after he increased time-skip to 0.2 second”. He is not saying “as expected, his attack’s strength powered up”, because it would be totally different from the point that Hit and everyone else were talking about, and the original statement is not even giving that meaning.

[Miracles]

Goku stated Hit's attack strength increased after powering up too.

That’s not exactly what Goku implied. Hit couldn’t damage Goku before, because he wasn’t able to deliver solid hits like he was doing against Vegeta with only 0.1 seconds. Once Hit “powered up” to 0.2 seconds, this particular attack went through. Goku is basically saying “his attack got me real good after he increased time-skip to 0.2 second”. He is not saying “as expected, his attack’s strength powered up”, because it would be totally different from the point that Hit and everyone else were talking about, and the original statement is not even giving that meaning.

You are not paying attention and trying to add in text...

You say: "Hit didn't deliver solid Hits before he powered up..."

The canon shows he did but were unaffective:



In those exchanges Goku's attacks were hurting Hit. While Hit didn't damage Goku at all...




It's not just Time skip that improved but Hit's overall ability. Obvious by the difference in physical damage Hit is doing with his attacks from before. That's why Goku says Hit's attack got him good after powering up. You are clearly ignoring context.

[wolflonnie]

After Hit explains how he powers up...As well as his time skip, Goku is adding to the fact that Hit's strength increased TOO. Due to that power up... Notice How Goku is talking about Hit's attack strength and not time skip for the simple fact that he is saying he can only take a few more of those hits...So the story wasn't just talking time skip increasing but attack strength as well...

You had all this trouble to pick up the frames. Yet you didn’t realize the point. Goku is not adding anything that Hit didn’t addressed. “Power up” is not referring to battle power in this context. It’s as simple as, just like Vegeta, Goku couldn’t avoid being hit. He was still planning to counter Hit by predicting where he would be after 0.2 seconds, but Hit confused him by powering up to 0.5 seconds.

Seconding this.
"His attacks after powering up got me good", context is the fact that he improved his time skip. His battle strenght is the same.
Context is, before powering up Hit couldn't hit Goku as well as he did later.

[ruler9871]

After Hit explains how he powers up...As well as his time skip, Goku is adding to the fact that Hit's strength increased TOO. Due to that power up... Notice How Goku is talking about Hit's attack strength and not time skip for the simple fact that he is saying he can only take a few more of those hits...So the story wasn't just talking time skip increasing but attack strength as well...

You had all this trouble to pick up the frames. Yet you didn’t realize the point. Goku is not adding anything that Hit didn’t addressed. “Power up” is not referring to battle power in this context. It’s as simple as, just like Vegeta, Goku couldn’t avoid being hit. He was still planning to counter Hit by predicting where he would be after 0.2 seconds, but Hit confused him by powering up to 0.5 seconds.

Seconding this.
"His attacks after powering up got me good", context is the fact that he improved his time skip. His battle strenght is the same.

How the hell does "powering up" mean only improving his Time Skip? Its like you people are reaching.

[Miracles]

You had all this trouble to pick up the frames. Yet you didn’t realize the point. Goku is not adding anything that Hit didn’t addressed. “Power up” is not referring to battle power in this context. It’s as simple as, just like Vegeta, Goku couldn’t avoid being hit. He was still planning to counter Hit by predicting where he would be after 0.2 seconds, but Hit confused him by powering up to 0.5 seconds.

Seconding this.
"His attacks after powering up got me good", context is the fact that he improved his time skip. His battle strenght is the same.

How the hell does "powering up" mean only improving his Time Skip? Its like you people are reaching.

It's a mindset that is trying to be spread that Dragonball's battles is not all about Ki size but skill/technique. Which is wrong from A to Z.

[ruler9871]

Seconding this.
"His attacks after powering up got me good", context is the fact that he improved his time skip. His battle strenght is the same.

How the hell does "powering up" mean only improving his Time Skip? Its like you people are reaching.

It's a mindset that is trying to be spread that Dragonball is not all about Ki size but skill/technique. Which is wrong from A to Z.

Exactly. Dragonball is clearly one of the least skilled-based battle anime/manga out there. Way too many fans tend to project "skill" and "strategy" into many DB fights when it isn't really there.

[wolflonnie]

There were tactics in DBS. Heck even some in DBZ.
It's about context, regarding Hit. They spend a whole deal stating he didn't power up, but he merely improved his time skip. Goku meant that now his hits are connecting better, thus inflicting more damage.
But you guys seem so hell-bent on your ideas I'll stop there

[Lionel]

Hit's soft internal martial arts approach in the anime was something of a breath of fresh air. It's not all the time that you get to see true stylistic technical fighting like that in Dragon Ball -- or at least nothing that I'm aware of which is admittedly limited. I just wish the writers could have taken more allowances in showing the physical repercussions of the style on the one whose being attacked. You know, maybe Vegeta/Goku become disorientated from a blow to the temple or experience respiratory issues from being struck at the carotid artery.

On another subject, do most fans believe the idea that Beerus represents an ever shifting goal-post with regards to his power or is the statement about using 60% of his power in BoG no longer applicable? I know that he was compared to a tree at some point in the anime.

[Miracles]

There were tactics in DBS. Heck even some in DBZ.
It's about context, regarding Hit. They spend a whole deal stating he didn't power up, but he merely improved his time skip. Goku meant that now his hits are connecting better, thus inflicting more damage.
But you guys seem so hell-bent on your ideas I'll stop there

You're making the same mistake and mixing the statements... Vados states Hit tried to mimic Goku's way of powering up. Hit confirms he tried but failed. BUT he INDEED says he became stronger...









Please don't mix the two scenarios together where Hit didn't power up BECAUSE he tried to copy Saiyans but he did power himself up just by advancing himself later.