"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Mon May 20, 2019 9:54 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 7:37 pm
I wonder, where did Goku go at the end of the chapter? He used Instant transmission, but he was not able to feel Moro Ki. Did he go to Earth or something? I remember he said he wanted to get some Senzu

HeroR wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Even weaken or not, Vegeta and Goku not making it to the Dragon Balls in time in a big 'what'. Goku back in the Namek Saga went across half of Namek in a second. This is some Zamasu heading towards Trunks in Episode 64 kind of contrived. At least you can try to hand wave Zamasu as taking his time since he's a sadistic asshole. Goku and Vegeta were in a real rush. And it's so bad that a ship that left after them made it to the Dragon Ball's site shortly after they arrived.

While the fight was really nice, the conversation between Goku and Vegeta was the same as the one they had last month. Also, Buu getting such a big power boost from awakening the Grand Supreme Kai's memory is really questionable since Grand Supreme Kai should be a weakling by current standards and even if he did empowered Buu, the jump seems too dramatic. But this is kinda a nitpick. I actually prefer what the anime did and just make Buu train, even if Buu did get laughably stronger in just a few hours. Feels more earned.
Goku did not even have Ki enough to use Instant Transmission. He could barely use his Ki until the Galactic Patrol arrived.

Moro with his restored magical power would be much faster (not to mention that the scene wanted to emphasize the great power up he received)

And I understand your point, but at least for me, training is not a justification for any kind of power up, even if it seems deserved.

Even though I find the power up that Boo received in the manga a bit exaggerated, the way it happened is interesting, a possibility that already existed and was never explored.
I'm not talking about teleporting, I'm talking about flying. Something Namek Saga Goku could do despite being a weakling by today's standards flew over half of Namek in a second. That and the whole 'too weak to teleported' is also contrived since it has been three days. Goku recovering from a freaking heart attack somehow came out healthy than this after a few days.

Moro talked to the Freeza soldier for several seconds before he got his power back and again, Namek Saga Goku crossed half of Namek in a few seconds.

So Buu is Dorothy.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Mon May 20, 2019 9:55 pm

Noitsnothim wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 8:32 pm
HeroR wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 4:39 pm
Noitsnothim wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 5:42 am


you know what Super needs? Torishima & Kondo coming back as Toriyama's editors/consultants (They were around the best eras of Dragon Ball) and the lack of their seriousness and always keeping Toriyama on check has been making Super pale in comparison to Z and they could also get on Toyotaro as well to become a better storyteller
You are aware that Toriyama's harshest editor praised Resurrection 'F'.
So did pretty much everyone of the fandom before it got remade in Super and possibly because it's Toriyama first time taking a crack at Screenwriting and it continued to utilize the Z-warriors including Master roshi who was absent from the action in the previous film
That's some reversional history. Resurrection 'F' was roosted by the vocal part of the fandom before Super retold it.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon May 20, 2019 10:05 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 8:09 pm
Miracles wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 8:04 pm
Everything in between from the introduction until the final fight seems like one big dragged out scenario. Nothing really happened.

I'm looking forward to the big battle.
Thats just it though, i dont think its the “final battle.” Seems more like this final fight is like the equivalent of the Raditz battle in the Saiyan saga. This is still just the beginning. Either that or Moro gets defeated and his wish leads into a new arc.
Ah, so Moro's second wish possibly extends the arc?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by AnimeNation101 » Mon May 20, 2019 10:29 pm

Miracles wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 10:05 pm
AnimeNation101 wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 8:09 pm
Miracles wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 8:04 pm
Everything in between from the introduction until the final fight seems like one big dragged out scenario. Nothing really happened.

I'm looking forward to the big battle.
Thats just it though, i dont think its the “final battle.” Seems more like this final fight is like the equivalent of the Raditz battle in the Saiyan saga. This is still just the beginning. Either that or Moro gets defeated and his wish leads into a new arc.
Ah, so Moro's second wish possibly extends the arc?
Either that or this battle in the next chapter isn’t the FINAL battle and Moro will win or something thus making the arc longer.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheRed259 » Mon May 20, 2019 10:50 pm

I wonder if Gogeta makes his first manga appearance in the next chapter.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Mon May 20, 2019 11:34 pm

Nokra wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 7:33 pm
Why is it that the YouTube Dragonball fans seem to be only praising toyotaro and this arc while here on the forum its the opposite?
Youtubers are a very different slice of the Dragonball fandom than Kanzenshuu (in theory). Youtube generally cares about "HYPE" and "epic fightz and momentz"; Kanzenshuu supposedly is for more informed discussion. There's overlap for sure, but these are the general differences.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Tue May 21, 2019 5:50 am

TKA wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 11:34 pm
Nokra wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 7:33 pm
Why is it that the YouTube Dragonball fans seem to be only praising toyotaro and this arc while here on the forum its the opposite?
Youtubers are a very different slice of the Dragonball fandom than Kanzenshuu (in theory). Youtube generally cares about "HYPE" and "epic fightz and momentz"; Kanzenshuu supposedly is for more informed discussion. There's overlap for sure, but these are the general differences.
Again this is wrong. I am enjoying this chapter and while I am not a YouTuber or on YouTube much (at least not the Dragon Ball side of things) I know a lot of people on Twitter (including youtubers on there) who are also enjoying this current arc. And no one who I know who is enjoying the chapter likes it just for the hype and fights or because it’s cool. I haven’t even seen any of that in this arc so I don’t even know what you are talking about.

There are always going to be fights in Dragon Ball but I don’t see how this arc has more fights than any other. And what epic moments? I mean maybe seeing Buu fighting for some was epic. I think for a lot of people it was just nice to see a character who rarely gets to do anything get spotlight. Goku & Vegeta have certainly not done anything epic this arc yet.

I am actually enjoying this arc for the drama. And while I don’t think Moro is the best villain ever at least things feel dire. I love the fact that the Dragon Balls were used by the villain. Yes Dragon Balls can be used to bring the good guys back to life but they can also be dangerous. This chapter was a great reminder of that. And this time Goku & Vegeta couldn’t stop it.


It’s fine to say why you dislike it but it’s not cool to invalidate the reason other people like something.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Diggz92 » Tue May 21, 2019 6:27 am

HeroR wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 9:54 pm
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 7:37 pm
I wonder, where did Goku go at the end of the chapter? He used Instant transmission, but he was not able to feel Moro Ki. Did he go to Earth or something? I remember he said he wanted to get some Senzu

HeroR wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Even weaken or not, Vegeta and Goku not making it to the Dragon Balls in time in a big 'what'. Goku back in the Namek Saga went across half of Namek in a second. This is some Zamasu heading towards Trunks in Episode 64 kind of contrived. At least you can try to hand wave Zamasu as taking his time since he's a sadistic asshole. Goku and Vegeta were in a real rush. And it's so bad that a ship that left after them made it to the Dragon Ball's site shortly after they arrived.

While the fight was really nice, the conversation between Goku and Vegeta was the same as the one they had last month. Also, Buu getting such a big power boost from awakening the Grand Supreme Kai's memory is really questionable since Grand Supreme Kai should be a weakling by current standards and even if he did empowered Buu, the jump seems too dramatic. But this is kinda a nitpick. I actually prefer what the anime did and just make Buu train, even if Buu did get laughably stronger in just a few hours. Feels more earned.
Goku did not even have Ki enough to use Instant Transmission. He could barely use his Ki until the Galactic Patrol arrived.

Moro with his restored magical power would be much faster (not to mention that the scene wanted to emphasize the great power up he received)

And I understand your point, but at least for me, training is not a justification for any kind of power up, even if it seems deserved.

Even though I find the power up that Boo received in the manga a bit exaggerated, the way it happened is interesting, a possibility that already existed and was never explored.
I'm not talking about teleporting, I'm talking about flying. Something Namek Saga Goku could do despite being a weakling by today's standards flew over half of Namek in a second. That and the whole 'too weak to teleported' is also contrived since it has been three days. Goku recovering from a freaking heart attack somehow came out healthy than this after a few days.

Moro talked to the Freeza soldier for several seconds before he got his power back and again, Namek Saga Goku crossed half of Namek in a few seconds.

So Buu is Dorothy.
You do know that this isn't the same Namek? If I remember correctly this new Namek is a lot bigger than the old one. But I get your point about but the other guy is right about Goku and Vegeta was still recovering from there power loss from Moro. It takes a lot of enegry to fly fast/teleport they were going to stop regardless when Moro got his full power.

Goku wasnt fighting anyone after he had a heart attack he chilled for a while as everyone was fighting and training. I don't think Goku vs 2nd form cell would last long

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Liquir » Tue May 21, 2019 9:51 am

Toyotaro Drew it!- #18
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2019/05/21/t ... -image-18/
Text Translation:
"It’s Nail. If he hadn’t been defeated by Freeza and then merged with Piccolo, he might still be living peacefully on New Namek… He may very well be the single greatest sacrifice".

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Tue May 21, 2019 12:03 pm

This chapter was more interesting than the last one, and the fight between Buu and Moro was quite entertaining and creative as many people agree with. I do like the little cliffhanger where we don't know what Moro wished for at the end, and I'm looking forward to knowing what it is. Still, I don't really get this sense of foreboding since Moro to me has already proved himself to be quite an incapable villain/antagonist.

What would've been really terrifying is that as soon as he made his third wish, he sucks the entire planet dry and Goku is forced to teleport only those close to him back to wherever. Like what we saw with the flashback. That would've made for a much more tense cliffhanger imo. It seems like the battlefield will remain on New Namek though. But that's just my two cents on preference.

It really feels like we're being led up to the climax already. I hope not and that this is a red herring. As much as I'm not digging this arc so far, it needs to feel more extended and fleshed out if we want to avoid a U6 vs. U7 tournament type of filler.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Tue May 21, 2019 12:09 pm

Good chapter.

We had some Boo fighting and some of mysteries. The biggest one is Moro's wish, I liked the way it was set up. My gripe is like many have said supposedly the Elder was dead, so..., plot hole?

The other mystery is the Grand Kaioshin, what the hell is going on there?

I hope next chapter is a short skirmish because Namek's energy ins't enough and Moro runs away. I only want them to fight seriously on the final stand.

I also hope Vegeta and Boo defeat him in a tag team, seems like the most satisfying outcome. Vegeta is clearly invested in the Namekians, much more than Goku and Boo holds the key to victory.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Tue May 21, 2019 12:12 pm

Also, low chance of it happening but if we do see UI happening again, I hope Moro's magic fucks with it and demonstrates a vulnerability to the seemingly invincible auto-dodge as well. I'm not a very big fan of haxxx in general and would like for every technique to have some risk, counter, or weakness associated with it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Tue May 21, 2019 12:22 pm

In the manga UI doesn't have the auto-dodge mechanic. Goku took hits which were limited since he purposely avoided them hitting his vitals. That said his dodging improved greatly.

UI in the manga is all I hoped it would be, unfortunately it's hard to translate it. Goku isn't hitting harder or resisting damage better, he's just fighting much better do to UI. Wish Toyotarõ changed the effects of the hit's to tell us that.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Tue May 21, 2019 12:38 pm

LightBing wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 12:22 pm
In the manga UI doesn't have the auto-dodge mechanic. Goku took hits which were limited since he purposely avoided them hitting his vitals. That said his dodging improved greatly.

UI in the manga is all I hoped it would be, unfortunately it's hard to translate it. Goku isn't hitting harder or resisting damage better, he's just fighting much better do to UI. Wish Toyotarõ changed the effects of the hit's to tell us that.
Yeah it does. It's still a consequence of the fundamental essence of the technique, so much that even Roshi could do it with an imitation of its principles.

But to be more specific, it's about Goku's body moving on its own. So Goku's body moves whether to dodge or block depending on the circumstance.

The issue is that Jiren's power and speed is so great that not even a complete UI at Goku's level could keep up with it, and his body had to resort to blocking.

But anyways, my point is that perhaps it could be countered with something other than the usual more power and more speed.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Tue May 21, 2019 3:00 pm

Well even tho Moro got his magic back he is still looking to shop in the Ki department. By absorbing Planet Namek. So it looks like Moro's physicality will be something to behold ladies and gents!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue May 21, 2019 8:40 pm

Kinokima wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 5:50 am
TKA wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 11:34 pm
Nokra wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 7:33 pm
Why is it that the YouTube Dragonball fans seem to be only praising toyotaro and this arc while here on the forum its the opposite?
Youtubers are a very different slice of the Dragonball fandom than Kanzenshuu (in theory). Youtube generally cares about "HYPE" and "epic fightz and momentz"; Kanzenshuu supposedly is for more informed discussion. There's overlap for sure, but these are the general differences.
It’s fine to say why you dislike it but it’s not cool to invalidate the reason other people like something.
Read the thing you're replying to instead of galloping in on your high horse.

I said these are the general attitudes to the franchise each site purports. I said there's overlap between both sites. The person I was replying to asked specifically about why the different sites are reacting differently.

Read the thing you're replying to.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Tue May 21, 2019 9:32 pm

TKA wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 8:40 pm
Kinokima wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 5:50 am
TKA wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 11:34 pm


Youtubers are a very different slice of the Dragonball fandom than Kanzenshuu (in theory). Youtube generally cares about "HYPE" and "epic fightz and momentz"; Kanzenshuu supposedly is for more informed discussion. There's overlap for sure, but these are the general differences.
It’s fine to say why you dislike it but it’s not cool to invalidate the reason other people like something.
Read the thing you're replying to instead of galloping in on your high horse.

I said these are the general attitudes to the franchise each site purports. I said there's overlap between both sites. The person I was replying to asked specifically about why the different sites are reacting differently.

Read the thing you're replying to.
Yo, what do you think about this chapter?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue May 21, 2019 11:43 pm

Miracles wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:32 pm

Yo, what do you think about this chapter?
Best of the Arc so far, but that's being damned by faint praise.

My more substantive first impressions can be found on this older page.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Wed May 22, 2019 10:40 am

I just got around to reading the new chapter last night, and maybe this has already been discussed, or I'm mistaken, but I think I noticed a slight issue in it. When Cranberry is forcing the Namekian child to make his wish for him(which, what the heck is up with the translation device helmet hookup? Couldn't he just...point the blaster at the kid to make him say what he wants?), an old Namekian that I'm pretty sure is Muuri tries to stop him and gets blasted for his efforts. Now, at first I just assumed he was knocked unconscious, which is fine. By the end of the chapter though, Boo heals the kid and says he can't heal the other two Namekians on the ground. So...they're dead. Muuri's dead. Which if that's the case, then why were the Namekian Dragon Balls still active for Cranberry and Moro to make their last two wishes?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Wed May 22, 2019 12:12 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:40 am
I just got around to reading the new chapter last night, and maybe this has already been discussed, or I'm mistaken, but I think I noticed a slight issue in it. When Cranberry is forcing the Namekian child to make his wish for him(which, what the heck is up with the translation device helmet hookup? Couldn't he just...point the blaster at the kid to make him say what he wants?), an old Namekian that I'm pretty sure is Muuri tries to stop him and gets blasted for his efforts. Now, at first I just assumed he was knocked unconscious, which is fine. By the end of the chapter though, Boo heals the kid and says he can't heal the other two Namekians on the ground. So...they're dead. Muuri's dead. Which if that's the case, then why were the Namekian Dragon Balls still active for Cranberry and Moro to make their last two wishes?
Yeah it's been noticed. Seems like a plot hole, wouldn't be surprised if Toyotarõ missed it. He can "correct it" later by saying the kid is the one connected to Porunga. Not that would be a satisfactory solution since it makes little sense.

It's not super problematic but it takes away an interesting plot point where ignorance would be the downfall of Moro and Cranberry, of course it's obvious that's not a resolution that would satisfy most people.

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