Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

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Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by sumpter360 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:32 pm

I'm rewatching my old Dragon Ball Kai Blu-rays and boy, does the picture look soft!

Did we ever get confirmation that the original Z footage used was actually remastered at 1080p for this release? Or is it just 480p footage color-corrected and upscaled to HD?

EDIT:
I made a frame-compare of the shot where Goku "saves" Gohan from the waterfall in DBZ episode 1, comparing the Dragon Box Z, Kai, and FUNi 30th footage. I zoomed as best I could to match the 30th set, so that all you're comparing is the remaster visual style, clarity, colors, etc. If anyone else is interested

EDIT 2: I decided to edit the first Frame-Compare to include the FUNimation Raw Film screenshot as well. I've included that zoomed to match the most zoomed release (which, in the case of the first screen, is the FUNi 30th Ann) plus I threw in the raw, full-size, just for kicks.

I think I'm going to do this with as many of the screens we get from all 4 of these sources. I'll edit this post as I finish more.

I'm probably having too much fun with this :lol:

Goku and Gohan: http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/EJFFNNNU
Freeza: http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/EJF1NNNU
Last edited by sumpter360 on Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:30 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by Ajay » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:42 pm

The majority of Dragon Ball Z was shot on 16mm film compared to the more standard 35mm. QTEC who remastered the series applied some fairly liberal DNR to the footage, which when combined with the already smaller format 16mm film resulted in pretty soft overall image quality.

However, there were a few episodes of Z shot on 35mm film, and in Kai, those episodes are pretty damn sharp as a result.

16mm:
35mm:
So in answer to your question: yes, it's true HD, it's just not the sharpest thing ever on the whole.
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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by KBABZ » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:14 pm

What Ajay said. That run of episodes is IMO the best the original show has EVER looked, because at that size of film reel you don't lose as much picture information with the DNR, so it just looks fantastic.

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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by linkdude20002001 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:45 pm

Had they not DNRd it, and had they had the goal of restoring the original colors rather than changing them to the comic’s colors, it would’ve been the untoppable best the series has ever / could ever look. But Toei can’t think ahead beyond even their noses, otherwise they would’ve had that done while Kai was being made. Or while the Dragon Box Z sets were being made. Like, the show just needs ONE good scan / clean up, and then you’re good to: throw it on DVD, throw it on BD, cut it up to make “new” shows, et cetera, all for a FAR cheaper cost than doing whole thing over from the beginning each time...
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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by Danfun64 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:42 am

Say what you will about the 30th Anniversary collection, but IIRC Funi didn't make a whole new raw HD transfer for it, as they already has a good raw scan of their footage.

That said, a new HD transfer of the First-gen footage without DNR would be amazing.
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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by VDenter » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:06 pm

Kai looks blurry thanks to the awful DNR. It's still about the best the series has looked, Level Sets aside but it's far from perfect. Really IMO the best thing Kai has going for it are the colors, which really do save it but the image quality is way too soft.

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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:39 pm

Ajay wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:42 pm
So in answer to your question: yes, it's true HD, it's just not the sharpest thing ever on the whole.
It's only barely got a HD level of detail, though.
You can actually downscale the picture to 720p and then scale it back up to 1080 and you'll likely notice no difference.
If you scale it back to 480, there is just about a somewhat noticeable difference, but it amounts to very little; there's only barely any detail beyond standard-def in Kai.

Take a look:

1080p original
720p rescale
480p rescale

Q-TEC did a pretty awful job on Kai by applying DNR so heavily. The level of detail left in the picture really is appalling, and while there are subtle differences between these three screenshots you'll notice if you look close, I defy you to notice it watching in motion.

Q-TEC's DNR filter is better than Funi's, but like Funi, they applied it at a level far beyond reason.
I'd prefer this to something as awful as the 30th set, but... Well, I'd rather be punched in the face than stabbed in the face.
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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by KBABZ » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:46 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:39 pm
Q-TEC's DNR filter is better than Funi's, but like Funi, they applied it at a level far beyond reason.
I'd prefer this to something as awful as the 30th set, but... Well, I'd rather be punched in the face than stabbed in the face.
Yet another instance of trying to present DBZ (even an edited form of it) as much more modern than it actually is and falling flat on their face.

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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by sumpter360 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:40 pm

Yeah, seeing that comparison of the 1080 vs 720 vs 480 is the confirmation I was looking for, and why it's understandable that I thought it was just upscaled 480p footage. I'd like to see some comparisons of FUNi's 30th set to Kai in 1080p.
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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:38 pm

A compressed JPEG image does not actually show the true quality but rather gives a rough idea of what it looks like. Dragon Ball Kai in its untouched HD quality looks gorgeous and even moreso with the cinematic and atmospheric Kenji Yamamoto score.

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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by sumpter360 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:52 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:38 pm
A compressed JPEG image does not actually show the true quality but rather gives a rough idea of what it looks like. Dragon Ball Kai in its untouched HD quality looks gorgeous and even moreso with the cinematic and atmospheric Kenji Yamamoto score.
Shame the whole series cannot be watched with Yamamoto's score... I rather liked it, honestly.
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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:02 pm

sumpter360 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:52 pm
JohnnyCashKami wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:38 pm
A compressed JPEG image does not actually show the true quality but rather gives a rough idea of what it looks like. Dragon Ball Kai in its untouched HD quality looks gorgeous and even moreso with the cinematic and atmospheric Kenji Yamamoto score.
Shame the whole series cannot be watched with Yamamoto's score... I rather liked it, honestly.
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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by KBABZ » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:07 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:38 pm
A compressed JPEG image does not actually show the true quality but rather gives a rough idea of what it looks like. Dragon Ball Kai in its untouched HD quality looks gorgeous and even moreso with the cinematic and atmospheric Kenji Yamamoto score.
Amazing how some music can make the picture look better!
sumpter360 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:40 pm
Yeah, seeing that comparison of the 1080 vs 720 vs 480 is the confirmation I was looking for, and why it's understandable that I thought it was just upscaled 480p footage. I'd like to see some comparisons of FUNi's 30th set to Kai in 1080p.
Here you go, from a recent thread that wanted to compare ALL releases. My verdict is that the Black Brick picture is sharper, but more zoomed in compared to Kai and has watercolour smearing on the background paintings. Kai also has a more accurate white balance IMO.

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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by Tylerman29 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:20 pm

Damn Kai might be a little soft but boy did they do a good job with the remaster. If only the redrawn stuff wasn't so distracting.

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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:19 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:07 pm
JohnnyCashKami wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:38 pm
A compressed JPEG image does not actually show the true quality but rather gives a rough idea of what it looks like. Dragon Ball Kai in its untouched HD quality looks gorgeous and even moreso with the cinematic and atmospheric Kenji Yamamoto score.
Amazing how some music can make the picture look better!
K. I goofed up but you make a good point, if I was watching a picture or a slideshow of Dragon Ball Z with the limited Kikuchi score I'd hate it but if it was with the proper Kikuchi Z score or the Yamamoto score then I'd love it. :P

Dragon Ball Kai does have a soft image but it still remains as one of the best HD remasters of Dragon Ball Z. I kind of hope that TOEI isn't remastering Z because if it's similar to the TV SP2 remaster style.. might as well just watch the Dragon Boxes Z or the Level Sets instead. I mean, it ain't bad but it's not that great either.

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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by sumpter360 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:32 pm

I edited my initial post adding a compare of the Freeza image.

Also, TL;DR I've decided to make more frame-compares of the screens where we have it from all 4 sources: DBox, Kai, Black Brick, and FUNi Raw Film. I love seeing the comparisons, as well as making them, so I hope y'all do too :)
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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by KBABZ » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:59 pm

sumpter360 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:32 pm
I edited my initial post adding a compare of the Freeza image.

Also, TL;DR I've decided to make more frame-compares of the screens where we have it from all 4 sources: DBox, Kai, Black Brick, and FUNi Raw Film. I love seeing the comparisons, as well as making them, so I hope y'all do too :)
I mean we have an existing thread for that! viewtopic.php?f=7&t=43842

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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by Trachta10 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:47 am

Ajay wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:42 pm
The majority of Dragon Ball Z was shot on 16mm film compared to the more standard 35mm. QTEC who remastered the series applied some fairly liberal DNR to the footage, which when combined with the already smaller format 16mm film resulted in pretty soft overall image quality.

However, there were a few episodes of Z shot on 35mm film, and in Kai, those episodes are pretty damn sharp as a result.

16mm:
35mm:
So in answer to your question: yes, it's true HD, it's just not the sharpest thing ever on the whole.
What do you think about this? I tried to eliminate the blur and upscaled it
zoom

Other examples

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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by sumpter360 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:53 pm

Trachta10 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:47 am
Ajay wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:42 pm
The majority of Dragon Ball Z was shot on 16mm film compared to the more standard 35mm. QTEC who remastered the series applied some fairly liberal DNR to the footage, which when combined with the already smaller format 16mm film resulted in pretty soft overall image quality.

However, there were a few episodes of Z shot on 35mm film, and in Kai, those episodes are pretty damn sharp as a result.

16mm:
35mm:
So in answer to your question: yes, it's true HD, it's just not the sharpest thing ever on the whole.
What do you think about this? I tried to eliminate the blur and upscaled it
*snip*
Mmm I love it! Make that into a script I could run my episodes through, and I'd have a new preferred version for watching!
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Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster

Post by jjgp1112 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:07 pm

Trachta10 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:47 am
Ajay wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:42 pm
The majority of Dragon Ball Z was shot on 16mm film compared to the more standard 35mm. QTEC who remastered the series applied some fairly liberal DNR to the footage, which when combined with the already smaller format 16mm film resulted in pretty soft overall image quality.

However, there were a few episodes of Z shot on 35mm film, and in Kai, those episodes are pretty damn sharp as a result.

16mm:
35mm:
So in answer to your question: yes, it's true HD, it's just not the sharpest thing ever on the whole.
What do you think about this? I tried to eliminate the blur and upscaled it
zoom

Other examples
Whoa. That looks a helluva lot better than a standard sharpening filter. What did you do?!
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