"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[OLKv3]

Goku too deciding UI doesn’t fit him would make the technique pointless. Especially considering how so far it’s been hyped up as the ultimate thing for Goku to get.

That's one way of looking at it. Here's how I see it: Dragon Ball is the meandering story of Goku seeking greater challenges and strength. I think it would be completely fitting for Goku to give up on the technique when he finally finds mastery within his reach. He seeks personal growth, but he's true to himself. It's why he didn't become Earth's god, and it's why he wouldn't become a God of Destruction. Goku will do what he has to in order to defeat Moro (like how he'll fuse with Vegeta to defeat a villain), but after that, he'll go back to pursuing what he pleases.

Besides, it's not like mastering Migatte no Gokui automatically makes you invincible. It is still limited in various ways by the user. There are potentially other ways for Goku to grow.

If they want this arc to be filler, even though it surely doesn’t seem like it is anymore, then they may have Goku only tapping into UI for the fight with Moro due to the training with Merus - but not fully mastering it yet - and Vegeta would learn a gimmick he would only use in this battle alone.

I don't see how this could possibly be a filler arc. The DBS anime filler arcs were a few episodes each and had no lasting character developments. This is just as long as any main arc and is challenging our heroes in new ways. Above all, Toriyama is contributing to it significantly.

Maybe Goku won't master MnG by the end of the arc. That would be fine, but I think this would be a good place to end that arc (that started in RoF).

As for Vegeta, it's already been established that Spirit Control isn't about a single gimmick technique. "Study how the spirit functions and the path will open to you as well."

"Above all, Toriyama is contributing to it significantly."
This is jumping the gun. We don't know what Toriyama's contributions are. And we now know that Toyotaro designed Moro and Merus.

[Dragon Wukong]

And we now know that Toyotaro designed Moro and Merus.

Has that been confirmed? Honestly it speaks volumes if Toyotaro has been given the go ahead to design a main villain at this point.

[batistabus]

"Above all, Toriyama is contributing to it significantly."
This is jumping the gun. We don't know what Toriyama's contributions are. And we now know that Toyotaro designed Moro and Merus.

We've always known Toyotaro designed Merus and Moro. Toriyama is contributing significantly because he co-wrote ("teaming up" is the phrase Toyotaro used) the arc with Toyotaro. That's more than any DB filler. In the interview that'll come out later today, it seems that Toriyama came up with the idea for a Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc and that there are some interesting Toriyama characters we'll be finding out about soon.

Has that been confirmed? Honestly it speaks volumes if Toyotaro has been given the go ahead to design a main villain at this point.

That's also revealed in the interview. If you're impatient, you can try GoogleTranslate: https://dragonball.news/news/k191127000.html

[Kinokima]

Honestly feel people have been calling this a filler arc and also trying to pin it all on Toyotaro because they didn’t like it.

But the interview does confirm that it was a collaborative effort between Toyotaro and Toriyama. So while Toyotaro did designs Moro & Merus we don’t know what ideas also came from Toriyama. Clearly though this is not just Toyotaro’s own original arc.

Edit: Okay I missed but it sounds like Merus secret comes from Toriyama. Well they didn’t directly say that just a characters unreleased secret. Who else could it be.

[mute_proxy]

But the interview does confirm that it was a collaborative effort between Toyotaro and Toriyama. So while Toyotaro did designs Moro & Merus we don’t know what ideas also came from Toriyama. Clearly though this is not just Toyotaro’s own original arc.

Collaborative effort can also mean Toyotaro wrote it, and Toriyama threw in some tid bits and answered some questions on what could work. By filler arc people mean Toyotaro is the driving force behind it which still might just be the case.

[Kinokima]

But the interview does confirm that it was a collaborative effort between Toyotaro and Toriyama. So while Toyotaro did designs Moro & Merus we don’t know what ideas also came from Toriyama. Clearly though this is not just Toyotaro’s own original arc.

Collaborative effort can also mean Toyotaro wrote it, and Toriyama threw in some tid bits and answered some questions on what could work. By filler arc people mean Toyotaro is the driving force behind it which still might just be the case.

Read the interview. It basically says Toriyama came up with the idea for a Galactic Patrol arc and thought it would be something that they could write Together. This is exactly what collaborative means. Also the interview already says something that was Toriyama’s idea

There is nothing filler about this arc

[Rakurai]

But the interview does confirm that it was a collaborative effort between Toyotaro and Toriyama. So while Toyotaro did designs Moro & Merus we don’t know what ideas also came from Toriyama. Clearly though this is not just Toyotaro’s own original arc.

Collaborative effort can also mean Toyotaro wrote it, and Toriyama threw in some tid bits and answered some questions on what could work. By filler arc people mean Toyotaro is the driving force behind it which still might just be the case.

Toyotarou could have come up with the entire script and character designs by himself and those ppl would still be wrong.

Toyotarou's manga is the successor to the original manga, so whatever transpires also happens in the official continuity of DB.

[mute_proxy]

Toyotarou could have come up with the entire script and character designs by himself and those ppl would still be wrong.

Then it would be as official as DBGT.

Toyotarou's manga is the successor to the original manga, so whatever transpires also happens in the official continuity of DB.

Official continuity of DB is in Toriyama's head. What we have are official manga and anime interpretations. Both equally as "official" and "unofficial" to the DB continuity.

[RecolorSaiyan]

If this arc is considered filler because of minimal Toriyama involvement then the anime version of the zamasu arc is filler as well right? Since Toriyama himself said he hadn’t seen the final scripts for that and would find out what happened just like the fans would. Or does that only apply to the manga and we pretend like toei’s Rotation of 59 billion writers is official for some reason?

[HeroR]

But the interview does confirm that it was a collaborative effort between Toyotaro and Toriyama. So while Toyotaro did designs Moro & Merus we don’t know what ideas also came from Toriyama. Clearly though this is not just Toyotaro’s own original arc.

Collaborative effort can also mean Toyotaro wrote it, and Toriyama threw in some tid bits and answered some questions on what could work. By filler arc people mean Toyotaro is the driving force behind it which still might just be the case.

Read the interview. It basically says Toriyama came up with the idea for a Galactic Patrol arc and thought it would be something that they could write Together. This is exactly what collaborative means. Also the interview already says something that was Toriyama’s idea

There is nothing filler about this arc

I read the highlights, and it doesn't say that:

Spoiler:

-Toyotarо̄ describes the planning of the arc as cooperative, and attributes some as-of-yet-unrevealed plans regarding a new character’s secret to Toriyama.
-Since Jaco uses a bit of a classical alien design, Toyotarо̄ wanted to give Merusu a somewhat retro look as well. He thought the silver-colored bob-cut might help invoke that. Also, since he wanted him to be popular, he opted to make him a bit of a pretty boy. Differently-structured ears are a traditional way to let alien designs stand apart, but since the Galactic Patrol cover their ears with communication devices, he opted to make the nose a bit sharper instead. Although Jaco is actually naked under his jacket, Toyotaro clarifies that Merusu is actually wearing a suit (laughs). The lines on the suit are meant to invoke the look of a track suit and make the design feel a bit more old-fashioned as well.
-Moro he wanted to feel completely evil—a guy who, just like Piccolo Daimao, you could look at and instantly feel he has to be defeated. He didn’t want to leave the feeling that this was a villain who might end up becoming an ally afterward. To accomplish this, he based Moro's design off of Western-styled demons and gave him a cloak invocative of the grim reaper.
-The horns are the most difficult part of drawing Moro for him. Unlike a normal goats’ horns, they curl upward at the end. Even though he designed Moro himself, he kind of regrets that one element. He was having trouble getting Moro's horns exactly right without reference, so he went in search of physical goat figures to work off of, but couldn’t find one that met his needs. Eventually he wound up adding to a goat figure’s horns with putty to create his own reference model.
-Asked if there are any characters he wants readers to pay special attention to in Vol. 11, he points to the two varieties of Yardratians. Since there were two separate designs in previous material—one which debuted in the anime, and a cuter one designed by Toriyama a while back, he was at a loss for which to include. Ultimately he decided to use both after a talk with V-Jump Editor Victory Uchida [who is also a V-Jump mascot character; long story]. Just as there are many different races on Earth, he figures it shouldn’t be an issue to have different variations of one species on Yardrat.
-As you get into the action parts of stories, there's a tendency to make everything more serious, which could have resulted in the Yardratians having more rugged, typically sage-like characteristics, but he resisted that temptation in favor of including some typical DB cuteness. He views the innocent-looking Yardratians and their role as acting almost like a breather between action-heavy pieces of the story, an element he thinks makes series more enjoyable.
-The next part of the interviews is focused on Toyotarō's workspace. His shelves are crammed full of DB manga and related materials. He keeps the DB manga within easy reach. It's the same set he bought in elementary school, so he isn't sure how many times he's read it.
-One of his stress-releases during busy periods is figures. He always reserves new S.H.Figuarts releases. He'd like to collect other figures too, but once you start, it just becomes too many to deal with, so he holds off. He couldn't help himself with the HG Ginyu Force release, however.
-The interview highlights some other items in Toyotarō's studio, including a muscled anatomy figure and left-hand half-glove Toyotarō made himself to avoid dirtying his manuscripts while drawing. (He's left-handed.) No commentary on them is actually accredited to Toyotarō.
-He uses a Pomera digital memo pad to write his scripts. He likes it because the battery lasts a long time, and it allows him to do work outside his studio (at cafes and such).
-More non-Toyotarō-comment item-highlighting: He keeps a store display card from the release of Volume 6 with him because it has a really positive comment from Toriyama about his work on it. It helps provide motivation. (That is adorable.)
-The last image's caption just comments on all the Dragon Ball Super material surrounding his desk, and that he has everything set up to comfortably do all his work sitting.
-The final bit of the feature is a plug for Volume 11 (on stores tomorrow, the day following the interview). Moro gets his third wish granted, and the story line hits a major shift. What kind of training will Goku and Vegeta undergo in order to defeat Moro?
Toyotarō invites fans to continue enjoying the story until the heroes' and Moro's next confrontation.
He also shows off a sketch of Moro with the speech bubble "See ya in Volume 11!"

This is all that is said about Toriyama's involvement in the arc. It doesn't even credit him for the idea for the arc itself, just some ideas about new character’s secret, which is probably Meerus.

[HeroR]

If this arc is considered filler because of minimal Toriyama involvement then the anime version of the zamasu arc is filler as well right? Since Toriyama himself said he hadn’t seen the final scripts for that and would find out what happened just like the fans would. Or does that only apply to the manga and we pretend like toei’s Rotation of 59 billion writers is official for some reason?

Except the basic idea for the Future Trunks Saga, which I don't know why people won't call it by it's official name, is Toriyama's outline along with the characters of Black and Zamasu being his. Their background is also the same in both the anime and manga with the only real different being the execution and some details.

That and anime was still based on Toriyama's outline as the director of the Future Trunks Saga stated in an interview years ago. Here, the patrol's story arc has almost no credit to Toriyama's from the basic story to the characters, so not sure how you can even compare the two.

[HeroR]

"Above all, Toriyama is contributing to it significantly."
This is jumping the gun. We don't know what Toriyama's contributions are. And we now know that Toyotaro designed Moro and Merus.

We've always known Toyotaro designed Merus and Moro. Toriyama is contributing significantly because he co-wrote ("teaming up" is the phrase Toyotaro used) the arc with Toyotaro. That's more than any DB filler. In the interview that'll come out later today, it seems that Toriyama came up with the idea for a Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc and that there are some interesting Toriyama characters we'll be finding out about soon.

Has that been confirmed? Honestly it speaks volumes if Toyotaro has been given the go ahead to design a main villain at this point.

That's also revealed in the interview. If you're impatient, you can try GoogleTranslate: https://dragonball.news/news/k191127000.html

That isn't entirely true since Toriyama wrote the entire backstory between the Truffle and the Saiyans that was used in Dragon Ball Z filler.

And the interview only said, "Toyotarо̄ describes the planning of the arc as cooperative, and attributes some as-of-yet-unrevealed plans regarding a new character’s secret to Toriyama". Which sounds like Toyo came up with the ideas and Toriyama gave him some feedback along with plans of a new character secret. It doesn't even say that the arc was his idea, which is usually blunted out early and Toriyama didn't even mentioned this arc when it started a year ago and instead talked about Dragon Ball Broly. This is despite an entire section being about the Galactic Patrol arc at Jump Festa last year.

[RecolorSaiyan]

Cause he didn’t check the scripts can you not read? Toriyama verifies every script Toyotaro does, this was revealed in another interview months ago. I know you don’t like the manga but don’t make stupid points to pretend like it’s filler while the Toei Philippines anime is canon.

[HeroR]

Cause he didn’t check the scripts can you not read? Toriyama verifies every script Toyotaro does, this was revealed in another interview months ago. I know you don’t like the manga but don’t make stupid points to pretend like it’s filler while the Toei Philippines anime is canon.

All Toriyama said that he didn't read the final script, not that he never read the script. Script goes through several drafts before the final one is made. That and the director of Super at the time stated that Toriyama was involved in the Future Trunks Saga in with the line, 'you don't argued with god'. Unless you think the guy was lying about Toriyama's involvement.

So no, not the same thing at all. It's more akin to the backstory stuff that Toriyama created in Z for Toei to used in filler like the stuff with the Truffles.

[Grimlock]

-Asked if there are any characters he wants readers to pay special attention to in Vol. 11, he points to the two varieties of Yardratians. Since there were two separate designs in previous material—one which debuted in the anime, and a cuter one designed by Toriyama a while back, he was at a loss for which to include. Ultimately he decided to use both after a talk with V-Jump Editor Victory Uchida [who is also a V-Jump mascot character; long story]. Just as there are many different races on Earth, he figures it shouldn’t be an issue to have different variations of one species on Yardrat.

-As you get into the action parts of stories, there's a tendency to make everything more serious, which could have resulted in the Yardratians having more rugged, typically sage-like characteristics, but he resisted that temptation in favor of including some typical DB cuteness. He views the innocent-looking Yardratians and their role as acting almost like a breather between action-heavy pieces of the story, an element he thinks makes series more enjoyable.

I find it hilarious that they never mention Dragon Ball Online by name. Ever since it finally started to serve as a source in 2015, no official person has ever uttered its name. I wonder why, really. It's not like some work/game from a completely different entity and it had Toriyama's involvement and is the sequel to its manga. C'mon, give its due credits already!

[mute_proxy]

Cause he didn’t check the scripts can you not read? Toriyama verifies every script Toyotaro does, this was revealed in another interview months ago. I know you don’t like the manga but don’t make stupid points to pretend like it’s filler while the Toei Philippines anime is canon.

Verifying doesn't mean writing. The original Bardock was also verified by a few panels in the manga.

[RecolorSaiyan]

“I’m gonna find out the same time as the viewer” whereas even ssg Vegeta was approved by Toriyama in the manga. You can stretch your nonsensical points to pretend like this arc is filler but 3 separate interviews have told us Toriyama had involvement with this arc.

As far as Toyo doing designs, he designed half the GoDs, by your logic those don’t count either.

[RecolorSaiyan]

Cause he didn’t check the scripts can you not read? Toriyama verifies every script Toyotaro does, this was revealed in another interview months ago. I know you don’t like the manga but don’t make stupid points to pretend like it’s filler while the Toei Philippines anime is canon.

Verifying doesn't mean writing. The original Bardock was also verified by a few panels in the manga.

Only his rebellion was verified, it’s not the same thing as checking the storyboard/script, don’t be dense. If Toriyama approval means nothing than all of super except his outlines and Broly is non canon

[HeroR]

“I’m gonna find out the same time as the viewer” whereas even ssg Vegeta was approved by Toriyama in the manga. You can stretch your nonsensical points to pretend like this arc is filler but 3 separate interviews have told us Toriyama had involvement with this arc.

As far as Toyo doing designs, he designed half the GoDs, by your logic those don’t count either.

If you're going to quote the interview, quote the interview. Especially if you're going to just make up a quote:

Next up in Dragon Ball Super, adult Trunks will be putting in his first appearance in a long time! I put together this story based on a suggestion from the editorial office. Like last time, I write an outline of the entire plot, then the script writers break it up into episodes, expanding on things, changing things around, or adding in new bits as need be.

Despite being so strong, Trunks barely escapes from the future with his life.

The future was supposed to be at peace, so what in the world could have happened!?

And what about this foe too strong even for Trunks to handle, Goku Black!? (Well, you can probably imagine what he’s like just based off the name)

It’s the start of a battle that surpasses time and space, and drags in the God of Destruction, Kaiōshin, even the Omni-King! Many mysteries will be revealed!

There’s some confusing bits with time changing here and there, but just bear with me. It should definitely turn out to be a fun story!

Even I haven’t checked the final script yet.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2016/05/09/f ... all-super/

So again, he only said he hasn't seen the final script, not that he never seen the script at all. Anime scripts go through several revisions. Not everything is done in the first draft or even the second draft. And there is no quote about, “I’m gonna find out the same time as the viewer” . Who are you trying to fool?

The only thing we got about Toriyama's involvement in this arc is that he had something to do with a character and Toriyama cooperative with the current manga arc, that's literally it. And I never even said Toriyama wasn't involved. I said he was about as involved as he was writing the Truffles stuff for the anime.

Knew someone was going to mentioned the God of Destruction. Funny thing, none of the gods Toyo directly design were important to the arc that introduced them, especially unlike Moro and Meerus. Even in the TOP where Toei made most of the fighters, Toriyama still bothered to make Jiren who was the primary threat.

That and the other Gods of Destruction were known factors since the Champa Saga. So it didn't matter who designed them since we already knew they existed. Meerus and especially Moro came out of nowhere with no prior knowledge of their existence. Meerus also standout since you have to wonder what he was doing during the reign of Freeza and why he still haven't dealt with the revived Freeza who is rebuilding his army and is actually seen terrorizing people at the end of Broly.

[Kinokima]

The interview says Toriyama came up with the idea for the Galactic Patrol arc and it’s something that Toyotaro and Toriyama are working on together.

All it says is that Toyotaro designed Moro and Merus and with the V-Jump editor decides what designs to use for the Yadratians.

People are just arguing because they don’t want to admit this arc isn’t filler and that when they don’t like the arc they can blame it solely on Toyo.