"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[emperior]

The Angels being erased if they break their only rule is not something which was brought up to be used in a future arc. It’s quite clearly a chekov gun sort of information, and it will for sure be a key plot point by the end of the arc. Heck, we already know that basically Toriyama only got involved with writing Merus’ backstory so that tidbit came most likely from him.

This is basically Whis reversing time in RoF and Goku’s Zeno button in FT arc levels of blatant foreshadowing. By the end of the arc Merus will break the Angel laws, and will maybe get erased or maybe some twist will happen and he will be spared.
But the law will be broken for sure.

[Mad Swami]

The Angels being erased if they break their only rule is not something which was brought up to be used in a future arc. It’s quite clearly a chekov gun sort of information, and it will for sure be a key plot point by the end of the arc. Heck, we already know that basically Toriyama only got involved with writing Merus’ backstory so that tidbit came most likely from him.

This is basically Whis reversing time in RoF and Goku’s Zeno button in FT arc levels of blatant foreshadowing. By the end of the arc Merus will break the Angel laws, and will maybe get erased or maybe some twist will happen and he will be spared.
But the law will be broken for sure.

Yeah but I don't think he is going to finish Moro. I don't think they will just let him kill the main bad. However I 100% agree it has been foreshadowed hard that he will intervene.

[emperior]

The Angels being erased if they break their only rule is not something which was brought up to be used in a future arc. It’s quite clearly a chekov gun sort of information, and it will for sure be a key plot point by the end of the arc. Heck, we already know that basically Toriyama only got involved with writing Merus’ backstory so that tidbit came most likely from him.

This is basically Whis reversing time in RoF and Goku’s Zeno button in FT arc levels of blatant foreshadowing. By the end of the arc Merus will break the Angel laws, and will maybe get erased or maybe some twist will happen and he will be spared.
But the law will be broken for sure.

Yeah but I don't think he is going to finish Moro. I don't think they will just let him kill the main bad. However I 100% agree it has been foreshadowed hard that he will intervene.

I agree. I expect Moro to be taken down for good by Vegeta as Toyotaro has been pushing him a lot in this arc.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

How are Z fighters going to last thirty minutes? Moro legit smacked Vegeta into unconsciousness. How the fuck are B tier like Gohan, Piccolo, the androids going to not die? Saganbo kicked their asses, they can't do shit to Moro. Goku's still tired and I doubt UI is showing up anytime soon given how drained he is. Goku would legit get one-shotted as would the rest of the Z fighters like Vegeta did. Even if Vegeta gets up, how is Vegeta going to get close to Moro given how Moro effortlessly smacked him down? Vegeta won't be able to defuse him if the guy keeps moving faster than him and he can't drain an android.

Honestly, I feel Merus getting involved would make this fight a curbstomp seeing as Merus would legit flick Moro to death given how OP angels are. Would make it rather anti-climatic in my opinion.

If worse comes to worse, I'd rather Beerus get off his ass and do something. Show how strong Moro truly is if he's that much of a bitch to put down. Beerus isn't going to let Moro drain him or neck him, I mean he can try but remember how Demigra tried to brainwash Beerus in Xenoverse 2? Anyone who makes a fool out of Beerus when he's stronger than them tend to realize why Beerus is still a destroyer and a fighter.

[Dragon Wukong]

I think the issue there is going to be for the fighters to LAST thirty minutes. Thirty minutes is massive pain in the ass to survive in a fight, and I'm not sure how the B tier fighters aren't going to die if Moro chooses to attack them. Vegeta just got one shot so I'm not sure how he'll get close to Moro at this point. Moro has no need to rest or anything because of 7-3's stamina, so fighting him is going to be a massive pain. Lasting thirty minutes will be like jumping through hurdles of fire for them.

Well Fused Zamasu was them trying to last an hour, and they had like, a half hour beating him down as Vegito before they had to find a way to overcome that opponent themselves. We might see a similar situation here, but instead of fusion, Goku might use Ultra Instinct.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I think the issue there is going to be for the fighters to LAST thirty minutes. Thirty minutes is massive pain in the ass to survive in a fight, and I'm not sure how the B tier fighters aren't going to die if Moro chooses to attack them. Vegeta just got one shot so I'm not sure how he'll get close to Moro at this point. Moro has no need to rest or anything because of 7-3's stamina, so fighting him is going to be a massive pain. Lasting thirty minutes will be like jumping through hurdles of fire for them.

Well Fused Zamasu was them trying to last an hour, and they had like, a half hour beating him down as Vegito before they had to find a way to overcome that opponent themselves. We might see a similar situation here, but instead of fusion, Goku might use Ultra Instinct.

Goku doesn't look his best, he's pretty tired and UI doesn't seem like its going to pop out of nowhere. Vegeta and Goku are the only ones who stand a chance and considered how Vegeta got owned by fused Moro, he's probably going to be down for the count for at least some of the chapter. Moro doesn't seem to have an obvious weakness, unless they can seal his magic away which they can't, and Vegeta lost his chance to kill Moro after draining him of his stolen energy. Their only hope is that Moro doesn't massacre the Z team and wait for that damn time limit to go off before he can use another broken ability.

By the way, WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE SENZU BEANS? Is Korrin not making any or did someone lose them because why hasn't anyone brought them up and gave one to Goku so he's not completely exhausted.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Wait a second. It just came to me, can 7-3 and Moro even be separated? I mean, Moro may have a soul but 7-3 doesn't from what I can tell. Or at least he has an artificial one and that doesn't really count. Even if Vegeta got close, whose to say that it will work or that Moro's magic has 7-3 assimilated into him because he's artificial and can't be separated. If they can't separate him, I don't think they can win this without something else coming to play.

[Matches Malone]

Wait a second. It just came to me, can 7-3 and Moro even be separated?

I don't think Vegeta would mention having such an ability, in a chapter where 2 beings fuse, only to not be able to use it on them. Whether or not it makes sense is anyone's guess, but I find it very unlikely to backfire, as it'd make giving him such an ability useless.

[Mad Swami]

Wait a second. It just came to me, can 7-3 and Moro even be separated?

I don't think Vegeta would mention having such an ability, in a chapter where 2 beings fuse, only to not be able to use it on them. Whether or not it makes sense is anyone's guess, but I find it very unlikely to backfire, as it'd make giving him such an ability useless.

The only thing that makes me doubtful is that it's already been used. Like Vegeta was knocked down after the fusion and we've already seen him use the ability. Like story-wise it's weird for Vegeta to fight Moro, split his energy, then Moro takes 7-3 and absorbs him knocking Vegeta down. Then Vegeta gets back up and uses the same ability to again weaken Moro. Like I think it should work but with this new development it would be weird for Vegeta to just repeat last time

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Wait a second. It just came to me, can 7-3 and Moro even be separated?

I don't think Vegeta would mention having such an ability, in a chapter where 2 beings fuse, only to not be able to use it on them. Whether or not it makes sense is anyone's guess, but I find it very unlikely to backfire, as it'd make giving him such an ability useless.

But Malone, we can't have Moro be defeated easily by separating him! The writers have to make a massive pain in the ass to kill Moro and removing 7-3 from him would make him old and frail again. Besides, I doubt it'll be that easy, they'll probably pull something to keep Moro on the advantage. I imagine somehow, when Vegeta rushes in, for some reason they either can't separate Moro because of plot/the power of writing.

[Matches Malone]

The only thing that makes me doubtful is that it's already been used.

But Malone, we can't have Moro be defeated easily by separating him!

I don't think separating them will be as easy as separating Moro's energy, which just required Vegeta to punch and kick him. The idea of separating them might seem easy, but actually doing it will probably be extremely hard. If the ability requires Vegeta to hold on to him for a few seconds, then it'll take nothing less than MUI to hold him in place. I don't think MUI will be used, but that's just as example of how hard I think it'll be.

[Mad Swami]

The only thing that makes me doubtful is that it's already been used.

But Malone, we can't have Moro be defeated easily by separating him!

I don't think separating them will be as easy as separating Moro's energy, which just required Vegeta to punch and kick him. The idea of separating them might seem easy, but actually doing it will probably be extremely hard. If the ability requires Vegeta to hold on to him for a few seconds, then it'll take nothing less than MUI to hold him in place. I don't think MUI will be used, but that's just as example of how hard I think it'll be.

Maybe, I mean it would reward the little bit of time we did actually spend with Goku if he contributed

[TKA]

I would also like to add that I don't see any of this as character development for Vegeta. I see it more as a character showcase. It's basically explaining the things YOU, the VIEWER should've known about Vegeta after the Buu arc. It's not expanding on things, so much as it is expounding on things.

My first instinct is to say that it's unnecessary, but given the takes I've read over the course of Super, a lot of people don't understand that point of Vegeta's character development in the original. A lot of people also completely misread his character. Reducing Vegeta to just "a badass" is very much a reduction of the sum total that makes him who he is, among other things.

[Mister_Popo]

Compared to how terribly slow the past chapters have progressed and how predictable it all was, I found this chapter quite refreshing.
This was one of the better chapters of the arc, along with maybe Moro vs Vegeta round 1 and Moro vs Buu. I understand that there was a break between the first two big battles, but as far as I was concerned it took a little too long.

This chapter really read super smooth. I even regretted reading the spoilers. Toyotaro surprised me again this time. His level is not constant but I think there were some surprises no one could have predicted. I think nobody expected Moro would absorb 7-3 effectively.
Vegeta's new technique is cool and, I just think because the fight was over so quickly that he will come back later. If this had taken 2 or 3 chapters, and he was then beaten by Moro, it might have been over. This fight was too fast and explosive. I don't think Vegeta will stay in the ropes until the end. He could still (partially) get the win.

Concerning Vegetas character ... It is written in this chapter as it is. Vegeta is of course not literally a villain. He did his penance long ago for his wrongdoing in the past. Vegeta is extremely cocky and overconfident, a bit like Steven Seagal, when he is really convinced that he is the strongest. He used different power terms, not only talented about his honor than Goku but also that he was therefore a villain and also went to hell. It was mainly to intimidate Moro and show that he had no fear at all. A Vegeta who wants to kill to kill is not going to politely ask Jaco how he wants it: alive or toasted.
Moro's new form? Well, I'm not a super fan, but I don't think it's quite 'far away' either. I can imagine that Moro who has eaten that 7-3 will look something like this. How he ate 7-3, very slightly kinky like a good shounen should be.

Funny how, after months of talking about Vegetas progress, we are now back at discussing Goku potentially mastering UI. We may see the sylver-haired form temporary, non-completely mastered. I just think this arc may be just a little too soon for Goku completely mastering UI. I'm waiting for an even bigger opponent than Moro for that. Therefore i don't think Goku will defeat Moro on his own in this arc. Beerus stepping in and not being able to defeat Moro would be a cool turn of events, only for a revived Vegeta together with Grand Supreme Kai (i really still think Buu will have a major role to play here) to defeat Moro. Those cool fellas together, why not? I still like the idea of an angels sacrifice, but i'd like it to be spared till a later arc. We had in ROF- and FT-arcs Whis and Zenos basically with their toptier magic sealing the deal. I would like to finish this one in another way.

[Miracles]

I don't get why so many are up in arms about Vegeta's attitude anyway. He's never been one to outright admit he is a good guy.

In the BoG movie, the cast claimed he has "a righteous heart." Since he hasn't done anything bad lately. Vegeta got annoyed and told them to stop calling the "great Vegeta" a good guy.

It's just how he is. His pride won't admit the Z cast has changed him. But he knows better. That's why Vegeta saying he will pay for consequences doesn't surprise me.

It's going to be interesting to see how the plot deals with Moro now. Not only has his battle power returned, whom Goku wasn't a "match" for. To make the situation worse, his Ki increased on top of that. Now he has 7-3's abilities; after grabbing his opponents neck, able to copy and store their techniques and battle powers. Up to three techniques at a time too. Which he can switch and dispense at his choice. Coupled with infinite stamina [Chap 53], seems really hopeless for our warriors.

I'm assuming the weakness here is that 7-3's copied ability only lasts for 30 minutes. That might be a crutch they can exploit. I believe fusion will be out. Since Vegeta just talked about not depending on the powers of others. However, he and Goku usually spout such feelings but have turned to it when necessary. Still, Moro might grab Vegeta's neck to make fusion a non option. This could possibly be the life and death push Kakarot needs to go Ultra Instinct. However, if he can't maintain UI for long, Moro's infinite stamina will play a factor to letting that deplete out.

What if Piccolo is called on again to use Mafuba to seal Moro? While Goku is stalling with UI? I'm excited to see the route the story takes to handle this ugly yet powerful monstrosity.

What I'm curious about is if Moro can copy up to 3 abilities at a time like Seven-Three, or only one. We see the ability is related to what's reflected in the gems in Seven-Three's head, but Moro's new form only has one. I think you're right though that part of the key will be fending Moro off until his copy abilities disappear.

Yeah, assuming Moro will even need to copy Vegeta since he has options to physically waste everyone now. He can also just drain the planet and their energy right along with it since Vegeta's has been knocked back into base form. There is physically no way for the plot to allow the Z senshi to engage Moro. It would be meaningless. Unless Goku gets pushed into UI. Since this is one of those life or death moments where Goku gets punked into a corner and needs to get control of his emotions. Or lets see where Beerus and Whis went to eat. We all know Beerus overheard what was going on with Goku between Whis and Merus.

[Koitsukai]

I wonder how would we all react to Beerus stepping in and solving the problem. Our boys have been anticlimaticly saved by higher deities twice, only now it would be a little more fun to watch.
He doesn't need to kill Moro, maybe he can just kick his ass until Moro is weak enough for the guys to finish the job, and just move over to the buffet. Although Moro right now should be more than a match. But if Moro beats Beerus then the stakes'd be higher than Woody Harrelson any day of the week.

I prefer the gang taking care of this but if I have to choose between who saves the day, Merus or Beerus, I want Beerus, hands down.

[Mad Swami]

I wonder how would we all react to Beerus stepping in and solving the problem. Our boys have been anticlimaticly saved by higher deities twice, only now it would be a little more fun to watch.
He doesn't need to kill Moro, maybe he can just kick his ass until Moro is weak enough for the guys to finish the job, and just move over to the buffet. Although Moro right now should be more than a match. But if Moro beats Beerus then the stakes'd be higher than Woody Harrelson any day of the week.

I prefer the gang taking care of this but if I have to choose between who saves the day, Merus or Beerus, I want Beerus, hands down.

I want Merus just because there is a more logical reason for him to be removed for the battle. Merus steps in fights a bit, then mid fight he turns to dust or whatever. He broke angel law and is punished. Then at the end of the arc, they can bring him back maybe.

[The Undying]

Compared to how terribly slow the past chapters have progressed and how predictable it all was, I found this chapter quite refreshing.

I agree.

It's not what I'd describe as a flawless chapter, but I think it's the best one we've had in quite some time. We need more of this and less of whatever was going on the past few months.

It's not expanding on things, so much as it is expounding on things.

I see it more as a combination of expanding and expounding. It's why I've been using the word "extension" so often - this is taking a pre-established aspect of Vegeta's character and extending it to an entirely new kind of situation. We've seen Vegeta show remorse and attempt to fix his mistakes retrospectively, but we've never seen him in circumstances where he's directly forced to confront (and protect) a group of people representing those mistakes in real time.

Putting characters in interesting scenarios that specifically relate to their individual motives and flaws is good because it provides a contextual framework for their progression. Goku's development in the manga's Tournament of Power was so concise for that exact reason.

[Mister_Popo]

He used different power terms, not only talented about his honor than Goku but also that he was therefore a villain and also went to hell.

This has to be of course 'not only about being more talented than Goku ...'

[Ziegander]

But seriously, no one else thinks it's the height of stupidity for Moro to even get a power boost like this from 7-3? I'm the only one that has a problem with him becoming so much stronger just from eating an android that's maybe ssj3 tier?

He claims to have reclaimed the height of his power, that he had stored a copy of that power level, a power level stronger than he was when he was going toe to toe with Omen UI Goku a minute ago, and beat him. When did he store that kind of power in 7-3?

And he gets this strong and just SLAPS Vegeta into unconsciousness. Everyone's arguing about Vegeta's character or Moro's appearance, really no one has a problem with the logistics of Moro's absurd power leap? When I read it, it felt like insultingly bad writing.