Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Grimlock » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:00 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:23 pm
When have I been wrong before? Any proof?
Oh hey, you finally decided to answer me. You were wrong all the times I asked you a source. The one time in this very thread wasn't the first time you claimed something, I gave you the opportunity to back up your statements, but you ignored me. Not gonna unnecessarily search for the "proof" of all these occurrences, but they happened.

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Sadala Elite » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:02 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:00 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:23 pm
When have I been wrong before? Any proof?
Oh hey, you finally decided to answer me. You were wrong all the times I asked you a source. The one time in this very thread wasn't the first time you claimed something, I gave you the opportunity to back up your statements, but you ignored me. Not gonna unneccesarily post here the "proof" of all these occurrences, but they happened.
Where were these alleged times and for want statements? Got any proof?

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by SSJgogeto » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:13 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:24 pm
You claimed I was wrong. The burden of proof is on you to prove it.
Nope, YOU claimed I was wrong, you answered me first. If someone needs to prove something, then it's you. And I don't know why you're being so stubborn. I mean, we have different opinions, so what?

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Dragon Wukong » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:16 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:26 pm
Literally none of the Z fighters besides Goku in the RoF movie ever have any dialogue to suggest that they already knew Vegeta attained godhood before he revealed it.
So? None of the characters react to Vegeta having it in ANY kind of way in the movie. To bring up how characters should react or acknowledge it is irrelevant. You're also still ignoring the case brought up in the above posts where Vegeta says he'll need Goku to cooperate so he gets to become Super Saiyan God next time at the end of Battle of Gods, which heavily implied he just did the ritual between movies.

Just accept that there's two different explanations to how Vegeta achieved Super Saiyan God, and both are equally valid and simply depend on the continuity.

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Sadala Elite » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:21 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:16 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:26 pm
Literally none of the Z fighters besides Goku in the RoF movie ever have any dialogue to suggest that they already knew Vegeta attained godhood before he revealed it.
So? None of the characters react to Vegeta having it in ANY kind of way in the movie. To bring up how characters should react or acknowledge it is irrelevant. You're also still ignoring the case brought up in the above posts where Vegeta says he'll need Goku to cooperate so he gets to become Super Saiyan God next time at the end of Battle of Gods, which heavily implied he just did the ritual between movies.
That doesn't explain why Gohan and the other 2 half-Saiyans never got the form either in the movie continuity either since its that easy.

Also, you failed to note the other post above that points out that the ritual boost is only temporary. If that's the case then there's no way Vegeta would have been able to still use SSB in the movie version if he got his God powers through the ritual (there's a one year gap between BoG and RoF).

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Sadala Elite » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:22 pm

SSJgogeto wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:13 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:24 pm
You claimed I was wrong. The burden of proof is on you to prove it.
Nope, YOU claimed I was wrong, you answered me first. If someone needs to prove something, then it's you. And I don't know why you're being so stubborn. I mean, we have different opinions, so what?
I alreadly proved you wrong in my first post with quotes from RoF and basic logic.

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by SSJgogeto » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:42 pm

Correction, your "basic logic". Remember what I said before about you being one of "those guys"? You have your own interpretation of the facts and you are trying to convince me that your logic is correct. I don't believe that and I'll stay with my logic, unless evidence emerges in a possible new anime season. Until then, I'll always disagree with your current position.

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:27 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:21 pm
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:16 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:26 pm
Literally none of the Z fighters besides Goku in the RoF movie ever have any dialogue to suggest that they already knew Vegeta attained godhood before he revealed it.
So? None of the characters react to Vegeta having it in ANY kind of way in the movie. To bring up how characters should react or acknowledge it is irrelevant. You're also still ignoring the case brought up in the above posts where Vegeta says he'll need Goku to cooperate so he gets to become Super Saiyan God next time at the end of Battle of Gods, which heavily implied he just did the ritual between movies.
That doesn't explain why Gohan and the other 2 half-Saiyans never got the form either in the movie continuity either since its that easy.

Also, you failed to note the other post above that points out that the ritual boost is only temporary. If that's the case then there's no way Vegeta would have been able to still use SSB in the movie version if he got his God powers through the ritual (there's a one year gap between BoG and RoF).
It doesn't explain it because it has nothing to do with Gohan or the others getting the form. Gohan didn't show any interest in being the one doing the ritual to fight Beerus and also didn't tell Goku to better cooperate with him to achieve the form at the end of the movie. Vegeta is guilty of both.
You should take that one up to Toriyama, to be fair. Vegeta vowing to do the ritual isn't solving how the others are treated or their interest in being the strongest, which is non-existent.

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Dragon Wukong » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:06 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:21 pm
That doesn't explain why Gohan and the other 2 half-Saiyans never got the form either in the movie continuity either since its that easy.

Also, you failed to note the other post above that points out that the ritual boost is only temporary. If that's the case then there's no way Vegeta would have been able to still use SSB in the movie version if he got his God powers through the ritual (there's a one year gap between BoG and RoF).
Gohan Goten and Trunks clearly didn't care enough to want it. They still haven't.

And again, we're talking about the movie continuity, where it was formerly the case that using SSG would result in its power being absorbed by the user. That base form power boost was assumed to be permanent in every continuity of Resurrection F, which is why base form Goku (and base form Vegeta) could fight the newly empowered Frieza.

Stop trying to mix continuities in this discussion.

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by The Undying » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:18 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:46 pm
So "there's no direct mention of God Ki boosting his strength" is not exactly correct because Vegeta was not using God Ki in this scene, probably just noticing the immense pressure from the divine room inside Whis' staff
The point of the scene is they had to switch to god ki to move inside a dimension filled with god ki. It was established two episodes prior (during their spar) that raising their ki without letting it leak was the trick to using that kind of energy, which is also what they do here. Vegeta immediately questions if it's the secret to divine ki afterwards, so there's no disputing that both characters were actively using it in that scene.

When he comments on the pressure, he may have been referring to the amount of ki in Whis' staff. I didn't object to that, but it's noteworthy that they never once comment on their own power or automatically transform while using it.
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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:27 am

Peach wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:38 am
Sadala Elite wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:27 pm
Peach wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:49 pm
I assumed he did the Super Saiyan ritual off screen between the two movies.

I'm not really looking at the Toei recap episodes. Seems like Toriyama wasn't really involved and was developing the Zamasu saga during that.
It was flat out stated by Goku in all versions of RoF that Vegeta intentionally did not use the ritual to achieve God status.
Not in the movie.

Toei may have wrote that line as padding for their weekly show, but I don't take all their dialog seriously. They also said there's 21 planets left or something. BS.
cannot be considered filler to the scenes that are in the canon sagas

the level of mortality is also said in the manga

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:43 am

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:46 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:36 pm
- He said at the end of BoG that he wanted to become SSG next time. Nothing there about the ritual.

- If Vegeta used the ritual to unlock SSG & SSB, then Gohan shouldn't have been surprised that Vegeta could go SSG & SSB at all, since Gohan would have been needed to perform the ritual to unlock those forms in the 1st place and thus already know about it (logic).
It's very, very heavily implied that Vegeta is referring specifically to the ritual in the context of the movie.

Image

And it seems like you haven't watched Resurrection F, because Gohan never expresses shock or comments on Vegeta using SSB. No one does in fact.
that really doesn't prove anything .. since at that time it was the only way to achieve that transformation ..
I very much doubt that Videl (Pan) is willing to collaborate again at Vegeta's whim.
What are they supposed to achieve by training with whis? the ritual is temporary ... it doesn't make sense

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Dragon Wukong » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:40 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:27 am
cannot be considered filler to the scenes that are in the canon sagas

the level of mortality is also said in the manga
Actually the additional scenes in Resurrection F's Super recap could be considered filler. DBS Broly was written by Toriyama and directly contradicts the anime arc.
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:43 am
that really doesn't prove anything .. since at that time it was the only way to achieve that transformation ..
I very much doubt that Videl (Pan) is willing to collaborate again at Vegeta's whim.
What are they supposed to achieve by training with whis? the ritual is temporary ... it doesn't make sense
For one, there's no reason to assume Videl wouldn't just do the ritual again. There's no reason to assume she wouldn't after everything he's done to defend the earth.

Secondly, in Battle of Gods the SSG ritual provided a permanent power boost to a Saiyan's base form, which we see through Goku's base form being able to fight Final Form Frieza where Gohan failed as a Super Saiyan to fight Frieza's first form in Resurrection F. Even if Super Saiyan God itself was considered temporary in those films at that time, there's no reason to assume Vegeta wouldn't do the ritual between films to bring himself to Goku's level once more.

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Sadala Elite » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:02 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:40 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:27 am
cannot be considered filler to the scenes that are in the canon sagas

the level of mortality is also said in the manga
Actually the additional scenes in Resurrection F's Super recap could be considered filler. DBS Broly was written by Toriyama and directly contradicts the anime arc. Yet Toriyama himself said that the movie was right after the anime lol
Obvious pro manga bias lol. And there's no such thing as "filler" in Super (that's just BS manga fanboys use to discredit the anime) because Super is not an adaption of anything
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:43 am
that really doesn't prove anything .. since at that time it was the only way to achieve that transformation ..
I very much doubt that Videl (Pan) is willing to collaborate again at Vegeta's whim.
What are they supposed to achieve by training with whis? the ritual is temporary ... it doesn't make sense
For one, there's no reason to assume Videl wouldn't just do the ritual again. There's no reason to assume she wouldn't after everything he's done to defend the earth.

Secondly, in Battle of Gods the SSG ritual provided a permanent power boost to a Saiyan's base form, which we see through Goku's base form being able to fight Final Form Frieza where Gohan failed as a Super Saiyan to fight Frieza's first form in Resurrection F. Even if Super Saiyan God itself was considered temporary in those films at that time, there's no reason to assume Vegeta wouldn't do the ritual between films to bring himself to Goku's level once more.
If it was temporarily then he wouldn't of had permanent access to SSB at all (logic)

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Sadala Elite » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:06 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:06 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:21 pm
That doesn't explain why Gohan and the other 2 half-Saiyans never got the form either in the movie continuity either since its that easy.

Also, you failed to note the other post above that points out that the ritual boost is only temporary. If that's the case then there's no way Vegeta would have been able to still use SSB in the movie version if he got his God powers through the ritual (there's a one year gap between BoG and RoF).
Gohan Goten and Trunks clearly didn't care enough to want it. They still haven't.

And again, we're talking about the movie continuity, where it was formerly the case that using SSG would result in its power being absorbed by the user. That base form power boost was assumed to be permanent in every continuity of Resurrection F, which is why base form Goku (and base form Vegeta) could fight the newly empowered Frieza.

Stop trying to mix continuities in this discussion.

No one is mixing anything

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Dragon Wukong » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:33 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:02 pm
Yet Toriyama himself said that the movie was right after the anime lol
Obvious pro manga bias lol. And there's no such thing as "filler" in Super (that's just BS manga fanboys use to discredit the anime) because Super is not an adaption of anything
Did Frieza know about Fusion before DBS Broly or didn't he? The DBS anime suggests the former while Resurrection F and DBS Broly suggest the latter. Frieza knowing about metamoran fusion wasn't written by Toriyama for the DBS anime, and DBS Broly, a later work written by Toriyama, contradicts that, so that puts the scene in a realm pretty similar to filler. I'm not talking about the manga at all, please take your weird anime insecurity out of this discussion and stick to actual arguments. You're being rather toxic in this discussion.
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:02 pm
If it was temporarily then he wouldn't of had permanent access to SSB at all (logic)
What do you mean? In the movies during that time period I literally just said in the post you quoted that the SSG ritual had a permanent effect on Goku. The boost was clearly still a thing where SSG was absorbed in the movie continuity, including Resurrection F, and only got retconned during Super (and at which point that was is still rather vague.)
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:06 pm
No one is mixing anything
Really?
Sadala Elite wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:27 pm
It was flat out stated by Goku in all versions of RoF that Vegeta intentionally did not use the ritual to achieve God status.
This is flat out wrong (and you never addressed the fact you were incorrect.)
Sadala Elite wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:34 pm
Also, Toyotaro wrote an official RoF manga in 2015, and Vegeta wasn't ever stated to have used the ritual there either.
Nevermind that you somehow use a lack of proof in the manga to debate that the ritual wasn't used in the movie, even though at that time it was just promotion for a movie set in a continuity where again, it was heavily implied the ritual was used, and ended before the actual fight anyhow. Just see my posts, or Grimlock's post linking to the statement where Vegeta asks for Goku's cooperation to do the ritual again at the end of BoG.

In short, you actively ignore any statements that prove you're incorrect in this thread, be it by me or others, yet still continue to be combative, and outright toxic in your arguments. All because it seems like you really want the anime to be "correct" when it comes to how Vegeta attained Super Saiyan God, even though that's just one continuity and you can infer a myriad of other ways in the other two cotinuities.

I haven't even said that the anime's depiction is "wrong." You're the one mocking someone for pointing out an actual contradiction between mediums in the series as having a "manga bias," when the manga itself wasn't even brought up.

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Grimlock » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:58 pm

I think he is one of those people who find it hard to admit "I am sorry, I was wrong about that. Probably confused something and such". It's really a shame that despite our efforts to post multiple evidences, he continues to rely solely on his mere words without providing his own sources.

Like I said, it's pointless when the individual isn't ready to be part of a conversation and isn't willing to change his views if necessary.

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:30 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:40 pm
Actually the additional scenes in Resurrection F's Super recap could be considered filler. DBS Broly was written by Toriyama and directly contradicts the anime arc.
it was toriyama's idea to adapt the movies to series ...
Parts of the series are included that were not included due to lack of time including the original ideas of toriyama such as the participation of tagoma ...

DBS Broly contradicts Super anime, super manga or z manga because it has errors ...
frieza met kefla and Abo Cabo in both versions it is impossible that he does not know the merger
however in the goku flashback you can see the opponents that he fight with kefla in the scene because of what happened
Transformations are not included SSBE and SSKK but are included in both anime and manga versions
the merger with gotenks due to wear and power has to wait 1 hour and another hour to re-merge something that toriyama forgot with gogeta or was not included due to lack of time
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:40 pm
For one, there's no reason to assume Videl wouldn't just do the ritual again. There's no reason to assume she wouldn't after everything he's done to defend the earth.

Secondly, in Battle of Gods the SSG ritual provided a permanent power boost to a Saiyan's base form, which we see through Goku's base form being able to fight Final Form Frieza where Gohan failed as a Super Saiyan to fight Frieza's first form in Resurrection F. Even if Super Saiyan God itself was considered temporary in those films at that time, there's no reason to assume Vegeta wouldn't do the ritual between films to bring himself to Goku's level once more.
endanger her daughter as this generates wear and tear which in her condition is dangerous ... on that occasion it was an emergency

ok ... but you completely forget that goku loses the god ki despite the fact that her power increases ... vegeta and goku forcedly had to train with whis to recover the God Ki on their own ... the mention of goku in anime must be fulfilled anyway the only difference is that it vegeta goal it without any ritual.

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Dragon Wukong » Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:13 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:30 pm
it was toriyama's idea to adapt the movies to series ...
Parts of the series are included that were not included due to lack of time including the original ideas of toriyama such as the participation of tagoma ...

DBS Broly contradicts Super anime, super manga or z manga because it has errors ...
frieza met kefla and Abo Cabo in both versions it is impossible that he does not know the merger
however in the goku flashback you can see the opponents that he fight with kefla in the scene because of what happened
Transformations are not included SSBE and SSKK but are included in both anime and manga versions
the merger with gotenks due to wear and power has to wait 1 hour and another hour to re-merge something that toriyama forgot with gogeta or was not included due to lack of time
Sure, some ideas that didn't make it into Resurrection F might've been used. But Toriyama has been involved in filler elements in the past, the main thing is that a scene was added into the arc that contradicts a later writing.

For one, the distinction has always been between potara fusion and the fusion dance. Frieza knows what the fusion dance is in the super anime, and recognizes Gotenks can use it. He doesn't know about the fusion dance in Broly. Kefla's existence doesn't contradict this in other mediums. SSBE And SSBKK also don't exist in the manga as they do in the anime, as everything is ultimately still just "SSB" in the manga. Lastly, there's nothing to suggest that Gogeta's fight with Broly wasn't short. He just managed to beat Broly fast enough before the fusion wore off.
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:30 pm
endanger her daughter as this generates wear and tear which in her condition is dangerous ... on that occasion it was an emergency

ok ... but you completely forget that goku loses the god ki despite the fact that her power increases ... vegeta and goku forcedly had to train with whis to recover the God Ki on their own ... the mention of goku in anime must be fulfilled anyway the only difference is that it vegeta goal it without any ritual.
You're being very presumptuous with the statement that Videl doing the ritual harms Pan in any way in Battle of Gods. It's never been suggested that she couldn't do it again once her ki was back up, or that doing it has any effect on Pan anyhow. If it'd make Vegeta, one of Earth's defenders stronger, there's no reason for her not to do the ritual again. Lastly, you're mixing the continuities. We were talking about the movie, where it's suggested that Vegeta did the ritual between films. Again, read my prior posts and look at the end of Battle of Gods, where Vegeta basically says he's going to do the ritual.

I don't get why people want to act as though statements within the series have no meaning. It's like saying "Well Broly can't be stronger than Beerus" even though the whole point of Goku saying that was to tell the viewer that he is. The whole point of Vegeta saying he wants to be the main one, that next time he gets to be the SSG in the ritual, and telling Goku to cooperate, and THEN having access to SSGSS without any other explanation in Resurrection F, is that one can infer from the statements and prior movie that Vegeta did the ritual offscreen. That's a viable explanation in that continuity, and to deny otherwise given all the information presented in those films is to be deliberately ignorant and facetious.

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Re: Exactly “HOW” did Vegeta achieve Super Saiyan God while training under Whis??

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:07 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:13 pm
Sure, some ideas that didn't make it into Resurrection F might've been used. But Toriyama has been involved in filler elements in the past, the main thing is that a scene was added into the arc that contradicts a later writing.

For one, the distinction has always been between potara fusion and the fusion dance. Frieza knows what the fusion dance is in the super anime, and recognizes Gotenks can use it. He doesn't know about the fusion dance in Broly. Kefla's existence doesn't contradict this in other mediums. SSBE And SSBKK also don't exist in the manga as they do in the anime, as everything is ultimately still just "SSB" in the manga. Lastly, there's nothing to suggest that Gogeta's fight with Broly wasn't short. He just managed to beat Broly fast enough before the fusion wore off.
not because many of these scenes were important as making it clear that goku and vegeta could not win merged vs beerus .. is included in the series and in the movie this scene was removed
goku's statement does not contradict the series ...
It is not specified ... frieza says "fusion?" like I don't understand the concept of that ..
Just like when gotenks meets frieza he does not specify that he knows that type of fusion he simply assumes it because he sees them separated their bodys ...
False ... it is confirmed that they exist in both versions
https://twitter.com/JaredHendrix6/statu ... 3085258752
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:13 pm
You're being very presumptuous with the statement that Videl doing the ritual harms Pan in any way in Battle of Gods. It's never been suggested that she couldn't do it again once her ki was back up, or that doing it has any effect on Pan anyhow. If it'd make Vegeta, one of Earth's defenders stronger, there's no reason for her not to do the ritual again. Lastly, you're mixing the continuities. We were talking about the movie, where it's suggested that Vegeta did the ritual between films. Again, read my prior posts and look at the end of Battle of Gods, where Vegeta basically says he's going to do the ritual.

I don't get why people want to act as though statements within the series have no meaning. It's like saying "Well Broly can't be stronger than Beerus" even though the whole point of Goku saying that was to tell the viewer that he is. The whole point of Vegeta saying he wants to be the main one, that next time he gets to be the SSG in the ritual, and telling Goku to cooperate, and THEN having access to SSGSS without any other explanation in Resurrection F, is that one can infer from the statements and prior movie that Vegeta did the ritual offscreen. That's a viable explanation in that continuity, and to deny otherwise given all the information presented in those films is to be deliberately ignorant and facetious.
partly you are right .. I was remembering badly the scene in which videl was healed by dende with the ritual but anyway if it generates a noticeable wear the characters cannot even fly
the only reason vegeta talks about the ritual is because there was no other way then and again the effect is temporary ... he would have to train with whis anyway to get the god ki

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