Does Toriyama consider Super Saiya-jin 4 a real form?

El Diabeetus · Post by **El Diabeetus** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:09 pm

Well, I've seen pictures on the internet of Toriyama's version of SSJ4 form the Dragon Box for DBGT. I also know that VegettoEX, Meri, and Julian talked about Toriyama's view of GT on Episode #96 of the podcast. But, what about SSJ4?

Post by **Herms** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:13 pm

I believe in his little introduction to the Dragon Box GT, he said that he liked the design, but nothing beside that. I think in the same place he referred to GT itself as a "side-story".

Ryu-Ken Bakuhatsu · Post by **Ryu-Ken Bakuhatsu** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:14 pm

I do believe Toriyama had a statement along with the drawings praising the Super Saiya-jin 4 idea and design and how well the designer made it look like a Toriyama peice.

As fars a manga goes I don't think Toriyama considers it 100% official. It would be interesting if Toriyama did a new manga and included it.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:44 pm

Wasn't the design for Super Saiyan 4 one of Toriyama's designs for Super Saiyan 3 or something?

Ryu-Ken Bakuhatsu · Post by **Ryu-Ken Bakuhatsu** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:47 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:Wasn't the design for Super Saiyan 4 one of Toriyama's designs for Super Saiyan 3 or something?

As far as I'm aware there is none that bare any resemblance to SSJ4 but one design did include a tail

=edit=

Located image on Daizex

http://www.daizex.com/multimedia/images ... _gokuu.jpg

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:37 pm

I've seen those pictures. But I remember either hearing about or reading that Super Saiyan 4 was an idea by Akira Toriyama and was a design for one of the Super Saiyan levels. That or he designed Super Saiyan 4 for GT, like you know, he was a character designer in the beginning.

Ryu-Ken Bakuhatsu · Post by **Ryu-Ken Bakuhatsu** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:44 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:I've seen those pictures. But I remember either hearing about or reading that Super Saiyan 4 was an idea by Akira Toriyama and was a design for one of the Super Saiyan levels. That or he designed Super Saiyan 4 for GT, like you know, he was a character designer in the beginning.

I'm not entirely sure. From what I've read and heard it was an orignal design I think by his background artist (

) who did some work on GT already.

I haven't seen any other designs of SSJ3 then the two from the Daizenshuu.

Post by **Herms** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:52 pm

SSJ4 wasn't one of the designs for GT that Toriyama did. He only did designs for re-chibified Goku, Pan, Trunks, Gil, the spaceship, and a few of the planets. In his introduction to the GT Dragon Box, he gives a sketch of SSJ4 Goku and wonders if he did a good job. This would indicate that he never drew it before, whether as a character design for GT or a potential design for SSJ3.

Here's Toriyama's sketch of SSJ4 Goku and his message. In it he says that SSJ4 was one of Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru's ("Nakatsuru-kun", as Toriyama calls him) designs. Unfortunately I can't find a full translation and don't really want to do one myself...

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:21 pm

I'm pretty sure Julian or somebody did a full translation when that image first appeared online, but it'd take a little hunting (which I am too lazy to do).

USSJed · Post by **USSJed** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:07 pm

Anyone know where I can find EXACTLY what Toriyama contributed to GT and what was created by the people with the rights to it?

Post by **Herms** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:20 pm

Daizenshuu 7 has several (possibly all?) of the drawings and character designs that Toriyama did for GT, such as his design for the spaceship and for Gil (who appparently wasn't named yet and is just called "robot who gets in the way"). The Shenlong Times #7 from the same book has an interview with Toriyama where they ask him about GT, but I can't remember exactly what he said. The GT Perfect Files books probably also have information on his involvement.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:09 pm

I've got Julian's translation of this sitting around. Been meaning to whip up a new "Tidbit" with it for a while. Pretty sure this was the "Shenlong Times" article/interview from daizenshuu seven. This thread also contains an interview with Toriyama taken from the book that accompanied the DBGT "Dragon Box" set.

=============================

Interviewer: Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule today to...

Akira Toriyama: No, no, I'm not busy at all. The Dragon Ball Daizenshuu work is just writing a single paragraph, so I'm really not busy at all. (laughter)

Interviewer: In that case, you must be quite well-rested.

Akira Toriyama: Yes, well, I do go to sleep after I see my son off to school every morning. Right now, I'm putting up a new workplace, so, I end up staying up all night working out the plans. I'm pulling more all-nighters now than when I had a weekly serial. (laughter)

Interviewer: Now, with regards to the new anime series, Dragon Ball GT, just how involved are you with it?

Akira Toriyama: I'm only involved with it a little bit. I check the story that gets sent from Toei Animation, and give them some advice. Also, I drew some character illustrations for them. But it's fun! It feels kind of like, 'Ah, so they had this kind of skill'. Everyone at Toei Animation has really wracked their brains, haven't they. I appreciate their hard work. To think they'd make Goku little. With this story, the manga might be able to continue in serialization... but I really have absolutely no desire to draw it. (laughter)

Interviewer: So, you recommend GT, then!

Akira Toriyama: Yes! I recommend it. As an ordinary audience member, I'm looking forward to it.
...Ah, come to think of it, It looks like I'll be getting a Macintosh [pub. note: a computer made by Apple] from someone!

Masakazu Katsura: Eh, What are you talking about?
(At this point, Masakazu Katsura butts in)

El Diabeetus · Post by **El Diabeetus** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:17 pm

VegettoEX wrote:I've got Julian's translation of this sitting around. Been meaning to whip up a new "Tidbit" with it for a while. Pretty sure this was the "Shenlong Times" article/interview from daizenshuu seven. This thread also contains an interview with Toriyama taken from the book that accompanied the DBGT "Dragon Box" set.

=============================

Interviewer: Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule today to...

Akira Toriyama: No, no, I'm not busy at all. The Dragon Ball Daizenshuu work is just writing a single paragraph, so I'm really not busy at all. (laughter)

Interviewer: In that case, you must be quite well-rested.

Akira Toriyama: Yes, well, I do go to sleep after I see my son off to school every morning. Right now, I'm putting up a new workplace, so, I end up staying up all night working out the plans. I'm pulling more all-nighters now than when I had a weekly serial. (laughter)

Interviewer: Now, with regards to the new anime series, Dragon Ball GT, just how involved are you with it?

Akira Toriyama: I'm only involved with it a little bit. I check the story that gets sent from Toei Animation, and give them some advice. Also, I drew some character illustrations for them. But it's fun! It feels kind of like, 'Ah, so they had this kind of skill'. Everyone at Toei Animation has really wracked their brains, haven't they. I appreciate their hard work. To think they'd make Goku little. With this story, the manga might be able to continue in serialization... but I really have absolutely no desire to draw it. (laughter)

Interviewer: So, you recommend GT, then!

Akira Toriyama: Yes! I recommend it. As an ordinary audience member, I'm looking forward to it.
...Ah, come to think of it, It looks like I'll be getting a Macintosh [pub. note: a computer made by Apple] from someone!

Masakazu Katsura: Eh, What are you talking about?
(At this point, Masakazu Katsura butts in)

That actually helped, but there's something I noticed that people kept missing:

But reading this again:

"If you are able, along with me, to enjoy watching the original Dragon Ball's grand side-story Dragon Ball GT, you will be pleased.

鳥山明
Akira Toriyama"

its a perfect way to look at Dragon ball GT. For people who dont want it to be the real end to the dragon ball story, it is just a "side story" (That was noticed by everyone.) and for those who love it it can be part of the grand final story. Incredible that I had forgot about this. (This however, wasn't noticed and most ignored it. Even for the people who like GT.)

The things in parenthesis is, what I was saying.

I actually like GT to tell you the truth, I'm one of the people who considers it to be the grand final ending. But, also like everyone else, I like it, but DBZ is still better. I also like GT more than the original Dragon Ball for some odd reason.

Death-T · Post by **Death-T** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:25 pm

I think this is a translation of the SSJ4 GT Box introduction note from Toriyama, I found it on Kanzentai.

Thank you very much for purchasing DBGT. Also, thank you very much for your cooperation with the sale date change. Once more, we thank you for this.
Though it is small, we are giving you some Zenny money from the world of Dragon Ball to show our gratitude. We hope you enjoy it and are happy with it. (I'm sorry to say, you can't actually use it. Please understand this.)
Also, this allows us to carry out a user questionnaire on the internet from June 15, 2005 until July 31, 2005 in order to receive input on the planning of future products.
You can access this at www.jumpland.com (It can not be done over a cellular phone.)
Though it is troublesome, we request your cooperation.
Customers who cooperate will receive a DBGT special-made PC wallpaper as a sign of gratitude.
DBGT user questionnaire is from the companies Shuueisha, Fuji TV, Toei Animation, as well as in joint collaboration with the manufacturing company, Pony Canyon.
As soon as we are finished our work, we will dispose of any personal information you had provided to us.

June 15, 2005
Companies: Shuueisha/Fuji TV/Toei Animation
Manufacturing company: Pony Canyon

Post by **Herms** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:03 pm

No, that's just some information on the zeni money that came with the box and what-not. It's probably just written by Toei's Random Copy Guy. Toriyama's intro is in the link Mike posted above.

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:43 pm

SSJ4 Furanki wrote:I actually like GT to tell you the truth, I'm one of the people who considers it to be the grand final ending. But, also like everyone else, I like it, but DBZ is still better. I also like GT more than the original Dragon Ball for some odd reason.

You're not the only one there, brother. I, too, like GT way better than the original Dragonball. For one, it's more "actiony", for lack of a better term. There's also Pan, whom is awesome. (A trait no doubt inherited from her incredible parents.)

It had several problems (Super Saiyan Gohan even after gettin' all Mystic. Bebi reinterpreted as "Baby". Kid Goku.), yes, but I still loved it.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:54 pm

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:You're not the only one there, brother. I, too, like GT way better than the original Dragonball. For one, it's more "actiony", for lack of a better term. There's also Pan, whom is awesome. (A trait no doubt inherited from her incredible parents.)

It had several problems (Super Saiyan Gohan even after gettin' all Mystic. Bebi reinterpreted as "Baby". Kid Goku.), yes, but I still loved it.

"Baby" wasn't reinterpreted. That's his name. It's like saying that "Toranksu" was reinterpreted.

El Diabeetus · Post by **El Diabeetus** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:57 pm

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:
SSJ4 Furanki wrote:I actually like GT to tell you the truth, I'm one of the people who considers it to be the grand final ending. But, also like everyone else, I like it, but DBZ is still better. I also like GT more than the original Dragon Ball for some odd reason.
You're not the only one there, brother. I, too, like GT way better than the original Dragonball. For one, it's more "actiony", for lack of a better term. There's also Pan, whom is awesome. (A trait no doubt inherited from her incredible parents.)

It had several problems (Super Saiyan Gohan even after gettin' all Mystic. Bebi reinterpreted as "Baby". Kid Goku.), yes, but I still loved it.

Well it's great if you look past the inconsistencies and if you don't bring DBZ into the mix.

Oh, Rocketman is right though, that's like calling Light from Death Note, "Raito" (Japanese Spelling/Pronunciation) or L "Eru" but the creators of Death Note clearly state his name is Light, but there'll always be that kinda fan in any Anime fandom. (Dragon Ball, Death Note, etc.)

Off Topic: I don't wanna go off topic, but I agree with you Pan is awesome.

Slightly Back on Topic: Just like VegettoEX said, Yi Xing Long kicks ass, but that saga could have been epic. But, since it's Toei they baldy executed another great idea.

But, I always considered GT as DB and DBZ mixed, but with awesome characters. Although, I really hated the M2 part of the series. A.K.A. Where FUNimation decided to start the series.

Well, I know this isn't about if you like GT or not, but I'm stoked for the Widescreen Releases. Only because I knew the dub first, but I frickin' love the Japanese music. Only reason I'll buy them, well also since they come out in June which is when my birthday is. I'll most likely buy all DB/Z/GT and Death Note stuff.

USSJed · Post by **USSJed** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:06 pm

Please tell me the Japanese version of GT doesn't have that rap opening...

In my opinion, original Dragon Ball(The Manga at least, the anime is so old it looks terrible) is better than GT, but I do recognise the presence of a half dozen great ideas in that series.

Tts a perfect way to look at Dragon ball GT. For people who dont want it to be the real end to the dragon ball story, it is just a "side story" (That was noticed by everyone.) and for those who love it it can be part of the grand final story. Incredible that I had forgot about this. (This however, wasn't noticed and most ignored it. Even for the people who like GT.)

That is indeed the perfect idea, those who hate it can ignore it, and those who like it can accept it's existance.

BTW, what is it that makes you guys like Pan? I couldn't stand her myself!

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:12 pm

USSJed wrote:BTW, what is it that makes you guys like Pan? I couldn't stand her myself!

Gohan + Videl = Pan. The only reason I need.

Also, I love how she really picked up her mother's attitude from her fighting days, then took it up a notch. She can be super sweet, but kick the hell outta ya as well.