"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Matches Malone]

I mean, realistically, what way could the others fighters catch up? Or at least, catch up enough to where they don't get immediately put on the defensive by people like Saganbo? Unless the androids can get upgraded(not sure if that's even possible) or Gohan and Piccolo get new or enhanced forms, I don't see how they could realistically catch up enough to hold their own against empowered minions.

Gohan and Piccolo can train with Whis, while the Androids can get upgraded. The issue isn't a lack of possibility, but rather a lack of interest by the writers for investing time in them.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I mean, realistically, what way could the others fighters catch up? Or at least, catch up enough to where they don't get immediately put on the defensive by people like Saganbo? Unless the androids can get upgraded(not sure if that's even possible) or Gohan and Piccolo get new or enhanced forms, I don't see how they could realistically catch up enough to hold their own against empowered minions.

Gohan and Piccolo can train with Whis, while the Androids can get upgraded. The issue isn't a lack of possibility, but rather a lack of interest by the writers for investing time in them.

Yeah. I don't get why they don't try to get the androids upgraded.Only Bulma could do anything to them realistically but I'm sure she could try something. Gohan and Piccolo would need Whis's training to be of any use. I feel like Goku and Vegeta would need to be out of the picture for them to even bother putting these four into the spotlight. (Given how popular Goku and Vegeta are, having one arc without them wouldn't sit well with most people, the outrage and complaints would be huge).

[Grimlock]

I'd forgotten they'd still be inactive by this point (the arc's been longer than I thought...); thanks for the reminder.

But doesn't the exchange between Bulma and Goku only really establish that Goku last came to visit them 5 years before the End of Z (in fact, Bulma's statement that they drop in on him seems to imply they've seen each other, however occasionally, even since then)? If Goku just left on his own, maybe, in a classic Red-Ribbon arc style solo adventure, wouldn't that keep the chronology straight?

I think it's possible to infer that, if we're really into analyzing the statements word-by-word. At any rate, Kanzenshuu's summary provides a different context. Even when they got together five (which is now meant to be four years and X months) years ago, Goku didn't even show up. Only a translator can give you a proper answer. I do think this case is supposed to be seen the same way as Goku going in a solo adventure, as you mentioned, no in-between/occasional meetings or anything.

[Kagari]

The writers can easily just power up characters again like they did for the US arc.

That was some of, if not the worst writing to come out of modern DB. How on earth can someone who watches over an island, and someone who "trained" with Piccolo for ONE day reach Goku's level ? I don't think any words can describe just how bad of a decision that was on their part.

Not really. 17 trained for 13 some years and Gohan trained for a year post Resurrection F and is already established to make quick gains. It's not different than a rusty Goku getting UI by genkidama and completing it in 20 minutes or SSBE Vegeta coming out of nowhere.

Yeah. I don't get why they don't try to get the androids upgraded.Only Bulma could do anything to them realistically but I'm sure she could try something. Gohan and Piccolo would need Whis's training to be of any use. I feel like Goku and Vegeta would need to be out of the picture for them to even bother putting these four into the spotlight. (Given how popular Goku and Vegeta are, having one arc without them wouldn't sit well with most people, the outrage and complaints would be huge).

Whis training is overrated, all he did was tell Goku and Vegeta how to manage their ki and they did. The rest was basic stuff. Not to mention, other characters are able to get to those levels without said training or the crutch of god ki.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball characters are kept at artificial gaps, which is ridiculous unto itself. There is no reason that artificial gap cannot simply be dropped by a creative working on the series.

[Kagari]

Dragon Ball characters are kept at artificial gaps, which is ridiculous unto itself. There is no reason that artificial gap cannot simply be dropped by a creative working on the series.

Pretty much. When the ceiling gets raised so high the writers have to compensate and they have and they can again. It's not that difficult, there's nothing barring them from doing so.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Dragon Ball characters are kept at artificial gaps, which is ridiculous unto itself. There is no reason that artificial gap cannot simply be dropped by a creative working on the series.

Pretty much. When the ceiling gets raised so high the writers have to compensate and they have and they can again. It's not that difficult, there's nothing barring them from doing so.

We'd need to put the focus away from Goku and Vegeta for any improvement from the B tier fighters. Goku and Vegeta are pretty popular, you'd need to kill them off in order for the writers to realistically focus on others.(Not happening)

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball characters are kept at artificial gaps, which is ridiculous unto itself. There is no reason that artificial gap cannot simply be dropped by a creative working on the series.

Pretty much. When the ceiling gets raised so high the writers have to compensate and they have and they can again. It's not that difficult, there's nothing barring them from doing so.

Like, yeah, this is why I just say "fuck it" and made Chaozu into a Kageyama Shigeo homage in my "Moro arc remake" because...why not? There's no reason why he can't be strong (I also just liked the story idea's dramatic potential).

[Kagari]

Dragon Ball characters are kept at artificial gaps, which is ridiculous unto itself. There is no reason that artificial gap cannot simply be dropped by a creative working on the series.

Pretty much. When the ceiling gets raised so high the writers have to compensate and they have and they can again. It's not that difficult, there's nothing barring them from doing so.

We'd need to put the focus away from Goku and Vegeta for any improvement from the B tier fighters. Goku and Vegeta are pretty popular, you'd need to kill them off in order for the writers to realistically focus on others.(Not happening)

That very thing happened in the Universe Survival arc. In the anime specifically Vegeta is sidelined for the first 20 episodes or so while Gohan and Goku go around to the exhibition and recruitment of the team members, the training with said characters, etc. Gohan got a lot of focus here and more screen time the entire arc than Vegeta. It's not unrealistic because it's happened. Again, it's up to the writers.

Gohan is just about as popular as Vegeta based on various polls, with Goku usually far about both but those are just numbers. It's no surprise that the most popular Super ever got was when the US arc started focusing on an ensemble cast.

Like, yeah, this is why I just say "fuck it" and made Chaozu into a Kageyama Shigeo homage in my "Moro arc remake" because...why not? There's no reason why he can't be strong (I also just liked the story idea's dramatic potential).

Right, it's fiction. There's no reason to be close-minded when this series specifically has proven almost anyone can be relevant.

[OLKv3]

Whis and Beerus are the ones who saved everyone. Beerus asked Whis to do it because "he needs to ask them where Bulma is"
We have a tsundere cat god

[DiscountDabi]

“It will activate when you achieve self control in the face of a jarring shock to your emotions.”

This single sentence explains why its so hard for the Gods to attain Ultra Instinct through training alone. As said in the anime by Beerus, there is no word for “Please” in the Divine Language. And Why would there be? Why would a a god need to say please or thank you. Given the way people fear their Gods of Destruction they wouldn’t get to the point where they formed a connection with anyone that could cause a Jarring Shock to their emotions. It doesn’t seem like an ability a God would be able to have.

Its almost as if its an ability suited for Mortals. Mortals would be the one’s to be able to achieve self control in the face of a shock to their emotions. Which makes me think, how do the Angels have it. You could say that the Angels are born with it, but then how would Meerus explain the way you get it.

Did something happen with Every Angel that caused them a Jarring Shock to their Emotions?

You could make an entire arc on just this.

[DevilKing99]

Whis and Beerus are the ones who saved everyone. Beerus asked Whis to do it because "he needs to ask them where Bulma is"
We have a tsundere cat god

Jesus Christ The Z fighters need the gods to bail them out of everything.

I hope there is an arc where gods don't help them out.

I don't even know why they bother training if will just fall to the gods.

Vegeta training was useless, it got owned the first chapter it appeared.

UI has done nothing at all besides getting bodied.

Moro has no character at all and neither does any of his goons.

The Gods have to step in once again.

[DevilKing99]

My god this is so bad.

I changed my mind. I don't want Toei to fix this. Scrap it from existence and start with a new arc for Super 2.0.

I agree with this.

Vegeta training was rendered pointless.

The Gods gotta save their asses again.

UI has done nothing besides getting trashed.

Boring villains with no character at all like other villains in the manga.

Just start a new arc already.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Honestly what I disliked about this manga was that Moro kept getting powers out of nowhere to justify the Z fighters not killing him. Everything falls down the gods pushing themselves into the conflict(again and Merus killing himself cause angel code ugh so annoying). Moro has no damn personality, his henchmen had more personality then he did. Moro rarely uses his magic anymore(he's a fucking wizard wtf wasn't that the whole point?) Why does he almost never use it? Is his move-set limited or something?

Sometimes I wish they did this arc better from the beginning.

[JulieYBM]

The arc is working too hard to out-smart the readers. It's ridiculous and a definite problem for any series.

[YamiGoku]

What I would like them to do with the Z fighters is 2 things:

1* Make all of them learn Kaio-ken

2* Make whis teach them to achive god ki

that way they have 2 power ups that they can combine to give them an edge, of course this wont make them SSB tier or anything but at last they should be able to put a decent fight to minions or maybe if a villain beat Goku/Vegeta but he/she is damaged/tired they could jump in and finish it.

also Tien and Yamcha could learn the Fusion dance on top of that, just saying...

also also, they have 2 sets of dragon balls, the dragon balls arent strong enough to make all of them SSB Tier obviously but they were able give goku his health back on the kid buu fight, I think they should be able to give them a bit of a boost to start, not something big but at last if they wish something like: make me strong as you can or something that would help at last yamcha to have a better chance to gain more power so he can endure the Kaioken.

like, they have so many macguffins they can use to make them more relevant, hyperbolic time chamber, Dragon Balls, Whis training, fusion dance, the yardrats (so they can learn weird techniques) etc.

[ZombieVito]

I'm sill waiting for an explanation on why Moro doesn't have a time limit on his copied abilities.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I'm sill waiting for an explanation on why Moro doesn't have a time limit on his copied abilities.

Writers don't want to take away his OP hack abilities cause it would actually benefit everyone? That's all I got.

[Kagari]

I'm sill waiting for an explanation on why Moro doesn't have a time limit on his copied abilities.

Toyo favors his OC too much, obviously.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I'm sill waiting for an explanation on why Moro doesn't have a time limit on his copied abilities.

Toyo favors his OC too much, obviously.

Honestly with the way Moro is written, he gets abilities slapped onto him just to make killing him harder when at no point was it foreshadowed he could do this stuff. I won't be surprised if on the brink of defeat Moro has some power that ends up screwing everyone over somehow.