"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[SupremeKai25]

Moro being alive anywhere would lower the mortal level, don't know how you can keep a character like him alive.

I think mortal level was only relevant for the previous arc and won't ever be brought up again. Beerus went back to his lazy self and wasn't concerned that Moro is cleaning out what few planets they had left in U7. I assumed he would care in the interest of self-preservation at least for when GP or Zeno checked on them. If he did care about maintaining his universe's mortal level, this arc would've been very short .

Zeno encourages that behaviour to be honest. In the Universe 6 arc he confronted Beerus about his incompetence and even said that he should replace him, but then changed his mind because he was just trolling him. You can't be very dutiful when you know your boss is negligent and stupid.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Moro being alive anywhere would lower the mortal level, don't know how you can keep a character like him alive.

I think mortal level was only relevant for the previous arc and won't ever be brought up again. Beerus went back to his lazy self and wasn't concerned that Moro is cleaning out what few planets they had left in U7. I assumed he would care in the interest of self-preservation at least for when GP or Zeno checked on them. If he did care about maintaining his universe's mortal level, this arc would've been very short .

Zeno encourages that behaviour to be honest. In the Universe 6 arc he confronted Beerus about his incompetence and even said that he should replace him, but then changed his mind because he was just trolling him. You can't be very dutiful when you know your boss is negligent and stupid.

This is why we need someone else in charge of the god hierarchy, because with someone like Zeno, you either think he's joking or he's going to erase all the universes because he got angry/bored. How are you suppose to get anything done when someone like this is in charge? Everyone has to walk on shells around Zeno else he'll just erase you or your universe if you bother him enough. Zamasu did get one thing right, its that the god hierarchy fucking sucks and Zeno honestly should not be in charge.

Though, getting rid of Zeno or at least his powers is another thing entirely. How the hell do you do that?

[Grand Marshal 1]

I think mortal level was only relevant for the previous arc and won't ever be brought up again. Beerus went back to his lazy self and wasn't concerned that Moro is cleaning out what few planets they had left in U7. I assumed he would care in the interest of self-preservation at least for when GP or Zeno checked on them. If he did care about maintaining his universe's mortal level, this arc would've been very short .

Zeno encourages that behaviour to be honest. In the Universe 6 arc he confronted Beerus about his incompetence and even said that he should replace him, but then changed his mind because he was just trolling him. You can't be very dutiful when you know your boss is negligent and stupid.

This is why we need someone else in charge of the god hierarchy, because with someone like Zeno, you either think he's joking or he's going to erase all the universes because he got angry/bored. How are you suppose to get anything done when someone like this is in charge? Everyone has to walk on shells around Zeno else he'll just erase you or your universe if you bother him enough. Zamasu did get one thing right, its that the god hierarchy fucking sucks and Zeno honestly should not be in charge.

Though, getting rid of Zeno or at least his powers is another thing entirely. How the hell do you do that?

I could have hoped for this arc to explain God hierarchy more, which it did, but not explaining why there is a Grand Supreme Kai in U7, or how this works in other universes, or why Merus is the first and only (to us) angel Trainee, when all universes have been explored is just too much stuff left unanswered.

Unless they expand on these questions in the future, the God hierarchy will feel off to me and very unstable. Which may be what Toriyama and Toyotarou want us to believe but come on... Give us something more on them!

Then, I can see so many ways of justifying mortal rebellions, divine intervention in mortal affairs and even why the Omni king is in his position in the first place.

[The Undying]

I did address those points.

Negative. You said the story was repetitively establishing that Merus was about to sacrifice himself... except none of those points actually establish that, and two of those points were conveyed to the audience before anyone was even aware that Angels die when they break the code.

If you're trying to claim all of them lead into Merus sacrificing himself, yes, that's what build-up is. You can't even claim there isn't "more than a little" of it when all of them are distinct plot points, yet naturally follow from the previous point.

Instead of spouting something that's easily disproved by reading back over the material, maybe you would do better to clarify your own criteria.

[SupremeKai25]

It really isn't hard to come up with a way to defeat Zeno, just introduce a villain who has more hax than him. Maybe Zalama the Dragon God is secretly evil and is invulnerable to Zeno's power because they are similar deities. There done, you have now introduced a villain who can dethrone Zeno.

I mean they'll do that eventually, right? Dragon Ball keeps going up and up with the power creep, and if there is even one or two arcs after Moro it seems inevitable that eventually the villain will be that powerful. Heroes already did it with Hearts, a mortal who had the power to dethrone Zeno.

[Gogeta SSJ Blue]

So, what about now?

Will Vegeta still be relevant?

Or will just Goku attain the mastered form of UI in a way similar as he attained SSJ for the first time when Frieza exploded Krillin on Namek?

Was that the needed push?

While Moro won't be able again to access his absorptions powers too.

I am predicting that on the next chapter this saga will certainly come to a conclusion!

[Hugo Boss]

No absorbing 7-3, no unnecessary ass pull powers.

What’s the problem with absorbing 73? Which ass pull powers?

The fact that the moment Vegeta gave Moro trouble with his magic he just threw it away and took 7-3’s he hasn’t used his magic in a fighting sense in a long time, and now that Merus sealed his copy ability its seen as a “Yes that ability is finally gone” even though his magic has basically been forgotten.

Lets be honest, Vegeta beat moro. Toyotaro just replaced him with a Cell Faced Generic Variant.

I still don’t see the issue. So far, his powerlevel was acquired by absorbing energy, which is a magical ability, he manipulates natural energy with his magic, be it fire or electricity. He tracks living beings or magical objects with his magic. He uses 73’s abilities because of his magic. So... what exactly are you talking about?

[HeroR]

I disagree that Goku and Merus had no relationship. The format of the manga might not be ideal to show it in it's full glory, but they did spend 3 or 6 months training together in a ROSAT. We can whine about not getting more panels about them, but not about them NOT having a bond. To be fair, I prefer it this way, if the manga happened to have many panels showing Goku and Merus laughing and watching Netflix, this arc would be even longer.

GP stated that maintaining neutrality is the one law that all Angels must abide by... But I can also follow the logic that a Destroyer's order can essentially override that law, given that serving a Destroyer's every whim is one of the Angels' primary functions.

But in the same vein, where does it stop? I mean, could Beerus conceivably order Whis to kill Moro, without Whis subsequently being erased for violating the Angel Code?

I think it stops when Whis intervenes because HE wants to. As in, having free will.

Think about it this way, if Beerus fights Moro and loses, and to save the universe from him he calls Whis for help, he would be obliged to act. But if Whis were to act on his own, jumping in to save Beerus, then he might die. Or, if Whis rewinded time in RoF without Beerus' permission.

It isn’t that they have ‘no relationship’. The issue is that the relationship was half-baked. If you’re going to make us believe Merus and Goku formed this bond to the point that he becomes Goku’s trigger, you need to show us, and I don’t just mean sticking it in flashbacks moments before you kill a character. This is a very common mistake fanfic writers make. They want the emotional payoff, but don’t put in the work to earn it.

This manga arc has several chapters worth of filler and unneeded fluff that could have been removed and we got Merus and Goku bonding like Roshi, Krillin, and Goku at the start of the 21st tournament.

I also blame Toyo’s editors since they’re the ones who should be telling him this.

[DiscountDabi]

What’s the problem with absorbing 73? Which ass pull powers?

The fact that the moment Vegeta gave Moro trouble with his magic he just threw it away and took 7-3’s he hasn’t used his magic in a fighting sense in a long time, and now that Merus sealed his copy ability its seen as a “Yes that ability is finally gone” even though his magic has basically been forgotten.

Lets be honest, Vegeta beat moro. Toyotaro just replaced him with a Cell Faced Generic Variant.

I still don’t see the issue. So far, his powerlevel was acquired by absorbing energy, which is a magical ability, he manipulates natural energy with his magic, be it fire or electricity. He tracks living beings or magical objects with his magic. He uses 73’s abilities because of his magic. So... what exactly are you talking about?

Because he hardly uses them. The Last time he used his Planet Energy Attack it was against Majin Buu. Last time he absorbed energy during a fight it was in Namek before they retreated. After Namek he stopped being a magician and just became a brawler. He had a slugfest fight with Goku, and punched around with Vegeta. His Magic Stopped being an Area of Effect attack and now was something he had to lock on to use, allowing characters to dodge it.

And now that Vegeta has Forced Spirit Fission he just stops using his magic all together and only uses 7-3’s copy ability. After Namek Moro got more and more generic. He fought more Generic, His abilities became more Generic, and now even His Face is More Generic.

[DevilKing99]

Moro being alive anywhere would lower the mortal level, don't know how you can keep a character like him alive.

I think mortal level was only relevant for the previous arc and won't ever be brought up again. Beerus went back to his lazy self and wasn't concerned that Moro is cleaning out what few planets they had left in U7. I assumed he would care in the interest of self-preservation at least for when GP or Zeno checked on them. If he did care about maintaining his universe's mortal level, this arc would've been very short .

I agree I doubt the mortal level stuff will ever be brought up again.

There was a special chapter with Freeza release while fight on earth was happening about him and followers saying the universe is vast beyond belief and there will always be planets for him to get in U7.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK2kv5LGAVc

[Magnificent Ponta]

Because he hardly uses them. The Last time he used his Planet Energy Attack it was against Majin Buu.

With respect, this is not correct - he uses it briefly in Chapter 59 against Goku to stop his assault (just like he does against Vegeta in Chapter 45), and briefly again in Chapter 61 to provide a screen with which to escape from Vegeta.

ast time he absorbed energy during a fight it was in Namek before they retreated. After Namek he stopped being a magician and just became a brawler. He had a slugfest fight with Goku, and punched around with Vegeta. His Magic Stopped being an Area of Effect attack and now was something he had to lock on to use, allowing characters to dodge it.

I also question this characterisation. In Chapter 45, Moro says that his planet-energy attack is the same technique as his life-energy-sapping magic, just a different application. Then we see him use it a lot and Vegeta get winded after some fighting. Then we see him use it again and then eat the energy he gathers, and it's clear that the energy is coming from people as well, and then Moro explains that the energy he's gathered includes the energy from Goku and Vegeta - so, it's not really a passive area of effect attack, he's just using it as part of his attack without them being aware - that's clear because Vegeta says the attack (i.e., the attack he already recognises) won't work against him now, and then Moro gathers more, and then eats the energy. Likewise, Vegeta only comments that Buu's energy hasn't dropped only after Moro uses that same attack. So it's clear Moro needs to actively do stuff to make energy absorption happen on Namek too, it's not passive like a lot of people have been saying. And Chapter 50 reinforces this when he only absorbs energy from the heroes, and not from his goons. But he's actively gathering the energy when he does it. So it's not out of place to see him try actively to use his more direct energy-sapping techniques on Earth as well. It hasn't really changed, it's just become more obvious. So saying it was passive and it now active isn't correct, given the evidence we have.

And it's not right that he doesn't use magic in his fight with Goku, even counting out his attempts at absorption. He starts off by gifting energy to Saganbo, which is that selfsame magic he uses on Namek to empower his followers; then when the fight starts properly, he may use magic to attack Goku from the outset (but it may be an ordinary ki attack, like Nappa and Freeza used); he definitely immobilises Goku with magic; his destructive lightning, which he uses more than once, appears to be magical; his after-image is an illusion (implicitly different from Zanzouken, and also used on Namek; it's magical, just like Dabura's is according to the Daizenshuu); he grips Goku out of the air, just like he does various people on Namek; and then he uses the planet-energy attack to stop Goku in his tracks. And that's all in Chapter 59. Yes, there's plenty of knockabout brawling as well, but that's because he can, whereas his body wasn't very suited for it on Namek, so he did it less. But even then, he still whacks Vegeta and Goku hard when he's able to, and seems to enjoy performing visceral impalements generally (Namekian 'Saviour', Buu, Cranberry, Goku). All pretty hands-on.

Frankly, the distinction you're making seems overstated.

And now that Vegeta has Forced Spirit Fission he just stops using his magic all together and only uses 7-3’s copy ability.

Isn't the barrier, which he casts over the battlefield in Chapter 62, magical?

GP stated that maintaining neutrality is the one law that all Angels must abide by... But I can also follow the logic that a Destroyer's order can essentially override that law, given that serving a Destroyer's every whim is one of the Angels' primary functions.

But in the same vein, where does it stop? I mean, could Beerus conceivably order Whis to kill Moro, without Whis subsequently being erased for violating the Angel Code?

I think the 'I act at the instruction of the God of Destruction' bit is a little bit of a shallow pose on Whis's part - he definitely refuses to follow Beerus's orders when he's told to help Goku by giving him useful information in the Universe 6 Tournament, particularly Hit's Time-Skip. And Beerus doesn't seem able to press the issue - Whis only consents to explain once Goku's already worked it out for himself.

Just a small example, but it seems to indicate that Angels can be 'more neutral' than their Gods want them to be.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I can't be the only person irritated by Beerus and Whis's attitudes.

Beerus is like 'I'm always doing favors and stuff, so annoying'. This guy forgot that Goku and his friends busting their asses off to save their universe and by extension him right in ToP?

Beerus needs to be replaced, because Merus's death was pure negligence and easily preventable and he just sat back.

Did Whis forget Merus is his responsibility? Why is he suddenly flipping the switch on his attitude? Also his bitchy attitude towards Merus's death is annoying.

Something ain't right about this....hopefully the GP gets on him about this after Moro is gone.

Even if I didn't like Merus's character, this is actually stupid. The writing for Beerus is starting to irritate me and is becoming downright intolerable.

Honestly, what is it going to take for Beerus to do something? Shin being held of gun point?

Merus's death is pure negligence on Beerus and Whis's part and I doubt the Grand Priest isn't doing to notice. Had Beerus just stepped up when Moro became perfect this could've been prevented.

I hope Merus isn't revived, as I'd rather he not be turned into a mortal like people mentioned. Better keep him erased if anything. It'll serve as a reminder why the god hierarchy sucks again and why we can't have nice things.

[Xeogran]

Did Whis forget Merus is his responsibility? Why is he suddenly flipping the switch on his attitude? Also his bitchy attitude towards Merus's death is annoying.

Whis is playing 4D Chess with everyone. He wants Beerus to be erased for unknown reasons, there have been hints about this all throughout Super. Whenever Beerus' position is seemingly in danger, Whis just tends to smile and joke around about it.

We now know what happens to Angels when they break rules, but we still don't know what happens when they get "deactivated" after their GoD dies. Perhaps it's just being free of their rules, and maybe then not having to obey the law anymore... Maybe that is Whis' plan all along.

[LoganForkHands73]

Did Whis forget Merus is his responsibility? Why is he suddenly flipping the switch on his attitude? Also his bitchy attitude towards Merus's death is annoying.

Whis is playing 4D Chess with everyone. He wants Beerus to be erased for unknown reasons, there have been hints about this all throughout Super. Whenever Beerus' position is seemingly in danger, Whis just tends to smile and joke around about it.

We now know what happens to Angels when they break rules, but we still don't know what happens when they get "deactivated" after their GoD dies. Perhaps it's just being free of their rules, and maybe then not having to obey the law anymore... Maybe that is Whis' plan all along.

I think that's a little mean-spirited for this kind of series, but it is interesting to consider that idea. It's possible that many of the Angels lowkey hate the Hakaishin they're paired with, I mean, waiting hand-on-foot on the same temperamental dude (whose ass you could effortlessly kick if you were physically allowed to) for aeons must get irritating and degrading. Sidra's Angel quite clearly hated him for his incompetence, Vados grills and undermines Champa's authority constantly, etc. Compared to them, Whis is pretty tolerant and he has enough in common with Beerus, namely their shared love of fine dining, that you get the feeling they do enjoy each other's company. I always get the vibe that they're a bitchy gay married couple who squabble constantly but can't live without each other, figuratively and literally.

However, the evidence is stacking up. Beerus's incompetence is reaching a worrying level and Whis obviously manipulated the whole Merus situation. I always took Whis's offerings for Goku and Vegeta to become the next Hakaishin as idle gestures, but maybe he is working a long scheme? Who knows...

[Grand Marshal 1]

Did Whis forget Merus is his responsibility? Why is he suddenly flipping the switch on his attitude? Also his bitchy attitude towards Merus's death is annoying.

Whis is playing 4D Chess with everyone. He wants Beerus to be erased for unknown reasons, there have been hints about this all throughout Super. Whenever Beerus' position is seemingly in danger, Whis just tends to smile and joke around about it.

We now know what happens to Angels when they break rules, but we still don't know what happens when they get "deactivated" after their GoD dies. Perhaps it's just being free of their rules, and maybe then not having to obey the law anymore... Maybe that is Whis' plan all along.

Elaborating on the Grand Priest's comments on Angels remaining active even when universe got erased in the ToP, it's possible that Zeno had in mind re-creating the multiverse from scratch. But 17's wish to bring back all the verses showed him that good people still exist and there is no need for destruction.

That said, we may start seeing Angels trying to choose new GoDs soon. At least when it comes to the universes with the lowest mortal number rankings.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Did Whis forget Merus is his responsibility? Why is he suddenly flipping the switch on his attitude? Also his bitchy attitude towards Merus's death is annoying.

Whis is playing 4D Chess with everyone. He wants Beerus to be erased for unknown reasons, there have been hints about this all throughout Super. Whenever Beerus' position is seemingly in danger, Whis just tends to smile and joke around about it.

We now know what happens to Angels when they break rules, but we still don't know what happens when they get "deactivated" after their GoD dies. Perhaps it's just being free of their rules, and maybe then not having to obey the law anymore... Maybe that is Whis' plan all along.

I think that's a little mean-spirited for this kind of series, but it is interesting to consider that idea. It's possible that many of the Angels lowkey hate the Hakaishin they're paired with, I mean, waiting hand-on-foot on the same temperamental dude (whose ass you could effortlessly kick if you were physically allowed to) for aeons must get irritating and degrading. Sidra's Angel quite clearly hated him for his incompetence, Vados grills and undermines Champa's authority constantly, etc. Compared to them, Whis is pretty tolerant and he has enough in common with Beerus, namely their shared love of fine dining, that you get the feeling they do enjoy each other's company. I always get the vibe that they're a bitchy gay married couple who squabble constantly but can't live without each other, figuratively and literally.

However, the evidence is stacking up. Beerus's incompetence is reaching a worrying level and Whis obviously manipulated the whole Merus situation. I always took Whis's offerings for Goku and Vegeta to become the next Hakaishin as idle gestures, but maybe he is working a long scheme? Who knows...

I'd like to take this opportunity to raise a speculation I made some pages back once again; namely that Moro's arc might be towards becoming the God of Destruction in Beerus's place (albeit with much amended from when I made it).

From a certain perspective, it has advantages to have a creature like Moro, who needs to destroy to survive but apparently can't be killed, being put on a leash and made to do what comes naturally for the 'greater good', rather than leaving the current incompetent incumbent in place.

[Kagari]

I disagree that Goku and Merus had no relationship. The format of the manga might not be ideal to show it in it's full glory, but they did spend 3 or 6 months training together in a ROSAT. We can whine about not getting more panels about them, but not about them NOT having a bond. To be fair, I prefer it this way, if the manga happened to have many panels showing Goku and Merus laughing and watching Netflix, this arc would be even longer.

GP stated that maintaining neutrality is the one law that all Angels must abide by... But I can also follow the logic that a Destroyer's order can essentially override that law, given that serving a Destroyer's every whim is one of the Angels' primary functions.

But in the same vein, where does it stop? I mean, could Beerus conceivably order Whis to kill Moro, without Whis subsequently being erased for violating the Angel Code?

I think it stops when Whis intervenes because HE wants to. As in, having free will.

Think about it this way, if Beerus fights Moro and loses, and to save the universe from him he calls Whis for help, he would be obliged to act. But if Whis were to act on his own, jumping in to save Beerus, then he might die. Or, if Whis rewinded time in RoF without Beerus' permission.

It isn’t that they have ‘no relationship’. The issue is that the relationship was half-baked. If you’re going to make us believe Merus and Goku formed this bond to the point that he becomes Goku’s trigger, you need to show us, and I don’t just mean sticking it in flashbacks moments before you kill a character. This is a very common mistake fanfic writers make. They want the emotional payoff, but don’t put in the work to earn it.

This manga arc has several chapters worth of filler and unneeded fluff that could have been removed and we got Merus and Goku bonding like Roshi, Krillin, and Goku at the start of the 21st tournament.

I also blame Toyo’s editors since they’re the ones who should be telling him this.

It's this. Trying to frame Merus as influential to Goku as Kuririn was doesn't work because we didn't see any of it. Instead, Toyotarou wafted around, showing us pointless fights with Vegeta fighting a random henchman, etc. He had plenty of time to build up this supposed Merus relationship but failed to do so.

Not only that but Goku having this extreme type of reaction toward Merus yet didn't when his family and friends were killed by Boo or when Freeza killed them again in RoF? Yeah, I don't buy it one bit. It's hamfisted, forced drama designed to get a reaction out of people and that's all it is.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Did Whis forget Merus is his responsibility? Why is he suddenly flipping the switch on his attitude? Also his bitchy attitude towards Merus's death is annoying.

Whis is playing 4D Chess with everyone. He wants Beerus to be erased for unknown reasons, there have been hints about this all throughout Super. Whenever Beerus' position is seemingly in danger, Whis just tends to smile and joke around about it.

We now know what happens to Angels when they break rules, but we still don't know what happens when they get "deactivated" after their GoD dies. Perhaps it's just being free of their rules, and maybe then not having to obey the law anymore... Maybe that is Whis' plan all along.

I think that's a little mean-spirited for this kind of series, but it is interesting to consider that idea. It's possible that many of the Angels lowkey hate the Hakaishin they're paired with, I mean, waiting hand-on-foot on the same temperamental dude (whose ass you could effortlessly kick if you were physically allowed to) for aeons must get irritating and degrading. Sidra's Angel quite clearly hated him for his incompetence, Vados grills and undermines Champa's authority constantly, etc. Compared to them, Whis is pretty tolerant and he has enough in common with Beerus, namely their shared love of fine dining, that you get the feeling they do enjoy each other's company. I always get the vibe that they're a bitchy gay married couple who squabble constantly but can't live without each other, figuratively and literally.

However, the evidence is stacking up. Beerus's incompetence is reaching a worrying level and Whis obviously manipulated the whole Merus situation. I always took Whis's offerings for Goku and Vegeta to become the next Hakaishin as idle gestures, but maybe he is working a long scheme? Who knows...

I could see Whis doing that. Despite his bitchy attitude toward Merus's death, I still feel bad for him. Like Whis has to legit watch Beerus not do his job for eons while people like Moro/Frieza/Buu just keep wrecking universe 7 and make impossible for decent development to happen. I bet if Whis was allowed without any consequence to himself, he'd force Beerus to do his damn job or do it himself. Whis does seem like he gives a damn about his universe to an extent and the conversation with his father about Merus seemed to imply he's disappointed that people like Moro just keep showing up all over again and that Beerus doesn't even attempt to fight them.

Merus's death was the definition of incompetence, as it was easily preventable and quite literally all was required from Beerus was to get his ass onto the field and challenge Moro to a fight, leaving Merus to back off and realize the situation is getting handled. Had Beerus at least done this in this chapter prior to Merus getting erased, this wouldn't have happened.

I always took Whis's offer as genuine, as he does secretly seem agitated when Beerus won't do his job or at least try. Whis does seem like he wants a new destroyer, or at least one that will at least try to do their job. Its not like Beerus is really trying or just very bad at knowing how to do things(lets be real Whis would probably instruct him if Beerus simply didn't know how to do things properly).

This might be a test for Beerus, Whis and Merus. Given how this turned out, they all fucking failed.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I disagree that Goku and Merus had no relationship. The format of the manga might not be ideal to show it in it's full glory, but they did spend 3 or 6 months training together in a ROSAT. We can whine about not getting more panels about them, but not about them NOT having a bond. To be fair, I prefer it this way, if the manga happened to have many panels showing Goku and Merus laughing and watching Netflix, this arc would be even longer.



I think it stops when Whis intervenes because HE wants to. As in, having free will.

Think about it this way, if Beerus fights Moro and loses, and to save the universe from him he calls Whis for help, he would be obliged to act. But if Whis were to act on his own, jumping in to save Beerus, then he might die. Or, if Whis rewinded time in RoF without Beerus' permission.

It isn’t that they have ‘no relationship’. The issue is that the relationship was half-baked. If you’re going to make us believe Merus and Goku formed this bond to the point that he becomes Goku’s trigger, you need to show us, and I don’t just mean sticking it in flashbacks moments before you kill a character. This is a very common mistake fanfic writers make. They want the emotional payoff, but don’t put in the work to earn it.

This manga arc has several chapters worth of filler and unneeded fluff that could have been removed and we got Merus and Goku bonding like Roshi, Krillin, and Goku at the start of the 21st tournament.

I also blame Toyo’s editors since they’re the ones who should be telling him this.

It's this. Trying to frame Merus as influential to Goku as Kuririn was doesn't work because we didn't see any of it. Instead, Toyotarou wafted around, showing us pointless fights with Vegeta fighting a random henchman, etc. He had plenty of time to build up this supposed Merus relationship but failed to do so.

Not only that but Goku having this extreme type of reaction toward Merus yet didn't when his family and friends were killed by Boo or when Freeza killed them again in RoF? Yeah, I don't buy it one bit. It's hamfisted, forced drama designed to get a reaction out of people and that's all it is.

You'd think Moro brutally killed Gohan for Goku to react like this.like I get he was around Merus for a while and even as a fan of Merus, I'm confused to where this overly deep connection came from. They need to write this stuff better and I already dislike the way Merus's death was handled.

[Kagari]

It isn’t that they have ‘no relationship’. The issue is that the relationship was half-baked. If you’re going to make us believe Merus and Goku formed this bond to the point that he becomes Goku’s trigger, you need to show us, and I don’t just mean sticking it in flashbacks moments before you kill a character. This is a very common mistake fanfic writers make. They want the emotional payoff, but don’t put in the work to earn it.

This manga arc has several chapters worth of filler and unneeded fluff that could have been removed and we got Merus and Goku bonding like Roshi, Krillin, and Goku at the start of the 21st tournament.

I also blame Toyo’s editors since they’re the ones who should be telling him this.

It's this. Trying to frame Merus as influential to Goku as Kuririn was doesn't work because we didn't see any of it. Instead, Toyotarou wafted around, showing us pointless fights with Vegeta fighting a random henchman, etc. He had plenty of time to build up this supposed Merus relationship but failed to do so.

Not only that but Goku having this extreme type of reaction toward Merus yet didn't when his family and friends were killed by Boo or when Freeza killed them again in RoF? Yeah, I don't buy it one bit. It's hamfisted, forced drama designed to get a reaction out of people and that's all it is.

You'd think Moro brutally killed Gohan for Goku to react like this.like I get he was around Merus for a while and even as a fan of Merus, I'm confused to where this overly deep connection came from. They need to write this stuff better and I already dislike the way Merus's death was handled.

It came from the last minute where a flashback tried to tell you so. It's payoff without setup, a problem DBS continually has.