Deploy the Headcanon!

[Magnificent Ponta]

Just to point out that logical inferences would actually be part of the canon; not to be confused with probable inference, or “logical (wrong) inferences” that leads to people not being aware of their headcanon and sometimes getting angry at “contradictions”

I'd be inclined to agree with you, but one person's 'logical inference' is another's 'baseless headcanon'; I guess it depends on just how much data is 'enough' to infer from in a 'canonical' fashion.

Goku never killed Freeza and King Cold in their arrival. Cell was the first entity from the future to arrive before all the changes took place and he remembered Trunks as the one who did it. Goku would have killed them, but did not and Trunks was therefore in Cell's history, before it changed further due to him knowing that he would have died by his hand.

I'd query this one (not because it's outrageous or whatever, but because I think it's worth considering) - does Cell actually come from the same timeline as Trunks (in the same manner as Goku Black being Zamas coming from a 'lost future' of the Main Story Timeline)? Or does he come from a separate one entirely?

I don't think Trunks can actually intervene in his own timeline when he goes to 'the past', he can only go to/create a different one. So, if he's come from a different one, it could've created one which Cell comes from and in turn comes to the Main Story timeline, but this would still leave Goku as the one to kill Freeza and Cold in Trunks's own time, wouldn't it?

The timelines are confusing at the best of times...

[LoganForkHands73]

- Prior to the Black arc, Future Bulma modified the time machine so it can simply travel back and forth between two timelines without altering them and creating more. One line of dialogue explaining that could have saved some but not all confusion.

- Shamelessly pinched from some other post I saw, but Zeno, Zuno and Zalama are all separated forms of what was once a single, perfected entity. Zeno represents pure childish, destructive impulse, Zuno represents unmotivated knowledge and Zalama represents creation. The original being was the lovechild of Akira Toriyama/Toribot and some dirty magazines, the true creator of the multiverse.

- Future Goku's death resulted in the Future Androids' psychotic personalities. Gero had spent decades designing killer robots to murder this one man who then had the discourtesy to die from a virus all of a sudden, prompting him to scrap all other Android projects including #19 and his plans to cyberize himself, and he decides to pull a "fuck it, kill 'em all" out of sheer spite. He goes back to working on #17 and #18 and successfully reprograms them to be totally hostile to all life while removing all compassion and restraint from their minds. He also successfully finds a way to limit their power slightly, though of course they still turn on him anyway (though this time, he expects and maybe even welcomes it as suicide since his entire life's work has been in vain). Since they became his last projects, he redesignates them #19 and #20 for some reason, hence the confusion of Trunks misnaming them at first in the manga.

- Goku secretly regrets murdering certain enemies like Staff Officer Black and Tambourine while they were retreating, which is why he chides Vegeta for doing the same to the Ginyu Force.

- Goku is an exhibitionist and the "pure-hearted innocent" routine is partly an act. Dude's always getting his dick out. People always wonder how Chi-Chi got him into bed to produce Gohan and Goten, he was probably more eager than he lets on.
EDIT: He also outright acknowledges that Bulma has bigger boobs and is ergo more attractive than Chi-Chi in the late Buu arc, hardly reeking of celibacy. Simply put, he has a healthy sexual appetite and isn't a rampant pervert, so he's pure-hearted by Kinto'un standards.

- You may have noticed that some of these theories are very silly. The Dragon Ball universe still fundamentally operates on "gag manga" logic even though its genre technically shifted to a sci-fi/fantasy/martial arts battle manga, which is why so many things make no effin sense and are pointless to argue about. Just calm down and roll with it. (This is also a headcanon)

[Koitsukai]

- Future Goku's death resulted in the Future Androids' psychotic personalities. Gero had spent decades designing killer robots to murder this one man who then had the discourtesy to die from a virus all of a sudden, prompting him to scrap all other Android projects including #19 and his plans to cyberize himself, and he decides to pull a "fuck it, kill 'em all" out of sheer spite. He goes back to working on #17 and #18 and successfully reprograms them to be totally hostile to all life while removing all compassion and restraint from their minds. He also successfully finds a way to limit their power slightly, though of course they still turn on him anyway (though this time, he expects and maybe even welcomes it as suicide since his entire life's work has been in vain). Since they became his last projects, he redesignates them #19 and #20 for some reason, hence the confusion of Trunks misnaming them at first in the manga.

I, also, always thought Goku's sudden death was the reason why the androids were such assholes. But for different reasons, I don't think Gero knew Goku died, he just activated them. They were created to kill someone who happened to be dead, so they lashed out against the whole world. They had no purpose in life, they were violated by Gero for nothing, because their main target had already died.

- Goku is an exhibitionist and the "pure-hearted innocent" routine is partly an act. Dude's always getting his dick out. People always wonder how Chi-Chi got him into bed to produce Gohan and Goten, he was probably more eager than he lets on.
EDIT: He also outright acknowledges that Bulma has bigger boobs and is ergo more attractive than Chi-Chi in the late Buu arc, hardly reeking of celibacy. Simply put, he has a healthy sexual appetite and isn't a rampant pervert, so he's pure-hearted by Kinto'un standards.

I like this one

[ZombieVito]

I think this one falls in the #1 category. I have the anime's Vegito vs Zamasu.

I don't think Zamasu could've ever been 'defeated' without Vegito Blue's imput.
-The point of them fusing was, according to Gowasu, to hit Zamasu hard enough(harder than SSBKK moments prior) in order to unbalance his soul-body or whatever. So then he shoots his most powerful attack -in the manga the power coming from this attack was compared to Beerus, Zamasu tanks it inside of a dust cloud and comes out flying and laughing and Vegito defuses after punching him in the face. After that, a weakened Trunks jumps in, and is now fighting evenly with the fusion that was fighting Vegito Blue, even before going all genki sword and receiving ki from Goku and Vegeta.

-I believe the greater power Gowasu was talking about was the FKHH, that of course couldn't kill an immortal but weakened Zamasu enough for a weaker character to stand up to him and deal the finishing blow. This also happened in ep.131, when MUI had weakened Jiren enough for Freeza and 17 to be a problem for him.

Yeah, the more time passes the more I think Zamasu was indeed weakened by Vegetto. It kinda makes sense since half his body is mortal now. His soul is what remained 100% immortal.

Speaking of which, maybe only his mortal half is what got that power up and that's why Trunks managed to do as well as he did at the end. His immortal half only being as strong as regular Merged Zamasu.

But something I want to point out is that Trunks didn't fight evenly with him. If you look closely Trunks keeps doging and parrying him. Only hitting him when Zamasu is off guard. When Zamasu hits him he gets thrown like a rag doll.

Once Trunks gets all the Genki then Zamasu gets overpowered.

[Desassina]

Goku never killed Freeza and King Cold in their arrival. Cell was the first entity from the future to arrive before all the changes took place and he remembered Trunks as the one who did it. Goku would have killed them, but did not and Trunks was therefore in Cell's history, before it changed further due to him knowing that he would have died by his hand.

I'd query this one (not because it's outrageous or whatever, but because I think it's worth considering) - does Cell actually come from the same timeline as Trunks (in the same manner as Goku Black being Zamas coming from a 'lost future' of the Main Story Timeline)? Or does he come from a separate one entirely?

I don't think Trunks can actually intervene in his own timeline when he goes to 'the past', he can only go to/create a different one. So, if he's come from a different one, it could've created one which Cell comes from and in turn comes to the Main Story timeline, but this would still leave Goku as the one to kill Freeza and Cold in Trunks's own time, wouldn't it?

The timelines are confusing at the best of times...

I think that if we follow the events in chronological order, then the past happened before the future and Trunks showed up in the former prior to the existence of another time that he could depart to, like Beerus created the scenario in which Zamasu was not killed by actually doing so, which means that changes happen before the scenario of when they don't.

As an example, Goku Black had to attack the past to ensure his own existence, because when Goku, Beerus and Whis investigated Zamasu, they got him killed and created a time that allowed Zamasu to take Goku's body. Then, by using the power of the rings, he travelled to a prior instance of the future that was Trunks's, when Zamasu was still himself. It is explained by Whis, but how does this resonate with Cell, or Trunks?

Well, Cell showed up and created a past version of when he didn't, but Trunks killed Freeza and King Cold, which means that Trunks created a scenario where Goku might be the one, and that's the one whose future belongs to his history. The alternate time that Cell created without his presence is the history of Trunks that ensured his interference in the main one, and it's due to this interference that Cell was given a time that he could depart from when Trunks had been the one to kill Freeza and King Cold. As you can see, everything checks out, at least from the perspective of the mainline.

[LoganForkHands73]

Oh, one more I forgot, though how much of a headcanon it really is, I'm not entirely sure...

- Piccolo was doomed against the Androids even if Cell hadn't intervened. Although evenly matched against #17, #17's unlimited stamina would have eventually worn him down. Hell, he was already starting to lose composure towards the end of the fight. Even if he'd won, there's another Android of almost equal strength to the one he'd just beaten, and yet another with even greater power, both just chilling on the sidelines. Piccolo didn't stand a chance in this scenario.

[Magnificent Ponta]

On the subject of the Androids, a couple of Category 2 headcanons from me:

- The Androids are weaker in Trunks's timeline because Gero has had more time to work on them specifically, so he's suppressed their power more than in the Main Story timeline in the hopes of finally being able to control them. In the main story timeline, he's been spending more time on himself, #19, and #16, and was hoping not to use #17 and #18, so hasn't fine-tuned that aspect enough yet, so they're both stronger than he'd like.

- This headcanon, along with the statement that #18's power has been suppressed more than #17's (on the cover of DB #367), also explains the gigantic gulf between them as of Dragon Ball Super. Gero's slapdash, incomplete approach to fine-tuning #17's power suppression in particular has introduced a bug where #17's power will steadily increase as time goes by, even if he does nothing, which (along with some 'training' on Monster Island) is why he's so much stronger now. He suppressed #18 a bit better, but still not as well as he should've (or as he did in Trunks's time), so her power might rise as well, but much, much more slowly.

I think that if we follow the events in chronological order, then the past happened before the future and Trunks showed up in the former prior to the existence of another time that he could depart to, like Beerus created the scenario in which Zamasu was not killed by actually doing so, which means that changes happen before the scenario of when they don't.

As an example, Goku Black had to attack the past to ensure his own existence, because when Goku, Beerus and Whis investigated Zamasu, they got him killed and created a time that allowed Zamasu to take Goku's body. Then, by using the power of the rings, he travelled to a prior instance of the future that was Trunks's, when Zamasu was still himself. It is explained by Whis, but how does this resonate with Cell, or Trunks?

Well, Cell showed up and created a past version of when he didn't, but Trunks killed Freeza and King Cold, which means that Trunks created a scenario where Goku might be the one, and that's the one whose future belongs to his history. The alternate time that Cell created without his presence is the history of Trunks that ensured his interference in the main one, and it's due to this interference that Cell was given a time that he could depart from when Trunks had been the one to kill Freeza and King Cold. As you can see, everything checks out, at least from the perspective of the mainline.

Apologies, I'm still not sure I'm quite on your wavelength with this one, as I'm not always sure who you're referring to at each point - are you saying that Trunks's intervention created a branch in the timeline, which is where 'our' Cell comes from, and therefore Trunks is in Cell's past? If so, I guess the key issue is that the Cell we encounter appears to come from a version of Trunks's own future, rather than 'ours', where Trunks has fought the Androids himself, found a way to deactivate them, but is still too weak to beat Cell.

Or are you saying that Cell's intervention created a timeline that Trunks was able to intervene in, which in turn created both 'our' timeline and another where somehow Goku dies anyway, and things turn out like in Trunks's time, which is in turn the timeline Cell comes from? I guess I'm still bumping up against the point that, whichever way you look at it, in at least one of the timelines (Trunks's own, most likely, which still seems to have the same past that Cell's timeline has), Goku's the one who beats Freeza and Cold.

Sorry if I'm being a bit dense, here.

[Desassina]

Or are you saying that Cell's intervention created a timeline that Trunks was able to intervene in, which in turn created both 'our' timeline and another where somehow Goku dies anyway, and things turn out like in Trunks's time, which is in turn the timeline Cell comes from? I guess I'm still bumping up against the point that, whichever way you look at it, in at least one of the timelines (Trunks's own, most likely, which still seems to have the same past that Cell's timeline has), Goku's the one who beats Freeza and Cold.

This one. And nobody's dense or in the spectrum . It's just a complicated matter that we often treat with logic pertaining to "rules" that belong to fiction in general (such as looking for the origin) and not just Dragon Ball. This accusation of Beerus by Whis explains what I'm talking about. The rest can be summarized with a chart like this:

Spoiler:

In other words: Goku beat Freeza and King Cold in what was to become Trunks's history, but he ended up being the one who did it anyway, because that's the history that we know from our perspective.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So, theory on how canon Broly's Great Ape power may apply to Saiyans across the board. It's a theory I've shared before around here, one that I wholeheartedly believe in hence why it's my current headcanon.

The source of rage boosts, pride boosts, etc., within forms that have already been attained through rage? Such examples include Vegeta suddenly eclipsing everyone and managing to do something to Beerus, SSB Goku suddenly raging out and taking on SSR Goku Black and Zamasu, and others like this? A result of their latent Great Ape power surfacing in brief moments that may even occasionally become permanent boosts.

This leads into the main crux of this headcanon: Future Trunks, the Universe 6 Saiyans, and Kale.

=

I believe that all of them can be explained by the kind of latent Great Ape power that Broly displayed manifesting in one form or another for each of these.

With Future Trunks, his immense rage awakened his latent Great Ape potential that manifested as an incomplete version of Broly's Super Saiyan Full-Power form. The differences are due to his diluted Saiyan blood, as well as him having become a Super Saiyan first; this results in blank pupils only at first and his body trying to bulk up before slimming down again.

With the Universe 6 Saiyans as a whole, I believe their evolution mirrored that of Broly's. They managed to gain the potential of their Great Ape forms without the need for tails, hence why they evolved past that point. This explains why certain members like Cabba and Caulifla are so strong despite being otherwise only somewhat exemplary, as the Universe 6 Saiyans are like a species-wide diluted form of Broly's ability to call upon his primal latent potential.

And finally, there's Kale. I believe she's a mutant that can call forth this Great Ape power in a similar manner to Broly, albeit her evolved Universe 6 physiology and circumstances of her transformation resulted in some differences. When she first raged out, she immediately became a Super Saiyan at the same time as when she brought out her Great Ape potential, resulting in the SS Berserk form that's similar to Broly's. During the Tournament of Power, she managed to rein in control of it gradually, reducing its power into 2 normal but enhanced Super Saiyan forms. Because she transformed into the Berserk form first, she powered down to Super Saiyan forms instead of to an Ikari base like Broly.

[Kaywayk]

- Coola was born much weaker than Freeza and Cold, possibly without any of his father's mutations. This explains why Goku could fight him in base form, and why he resents his brother so much. Since he actually had to train for his power, he figured out a way to transform that gives him more power rather than limiting it.

- Coola's shredder form and Freeza's golden form are the same thing; maybe Freeza uses a better version of the technique, hence more power.

- Freeza's clan are minor shapeshifters. All of them can change their appearance, but changing their power along with it requires training.

[SSJGAffleck]

1. Up until Super I believed that the reason Vegetto unfused was due to the Kai part of Boo sensing that they were mortals using something only reserved for Kai's and unfused them
2. That Super Saiyan 4 is not a true Super Saiyan transformation but actually an advancement of the Oozaru form (Similar to Broli's beserk form in the new movie).
3. Yamucha and Tenshinhan have unspoken about feelings for each other.

[Koitsukai]

Before GT, I always thought Vegito was like 60% Vegeta and 40% Goku, based on his more cocky personality, his clothing style and the name being closer to Vegeta than Goku. While seeing Gogeta more Goku than Vegeta with a much more assertive approach. Of course it was BS.

Also, the following regarding the movies I place in the #1 category.

- Slug movie happens in a timeline/parallel universe where Piccolo never died vs the saiyans, and there was no need to go to Namek.
- Cooler's revenge happens after Goku killed Freeza with the genki dama, and unlocked SS vs Cooler on Earth. Cooler referring to Goku as the LSS was only because he killed Freeza. No Yadrat.
- Metal Cooler doesn't actually follow Cooler's revenge because Vegeta is alive while in Cooler's revenge it seems he died on Namek and was never revived. Also, Goku uses shunkanido.
- Super 13 movie happens after 19 and 20 are killed, and the twin androids were not activated. Trunks is there and there's peace.
- Broly movie happens after Vegeta killed 2nd form Cell. No FPSS, no countdown to the Cell Games, nothing.
- Janemba happens, after Gotenks or Gohan killed Super Buu, during the time Goku and Vegeta were both dead.
- Hirudegan movie happens after the original Z run.

[Matches Malone]

Metal Cooler doesn't actually follow Cooler's revenge because Vegeta is alive while in Cooler's revenge it seems he died on Namek.

It was established in the anime that Vegeta was off training in space, as that's where he achieved Ssj, so it explains why he wasn't in Cooler's revenge.

[Hulk10]

Another group of Saiyans besides the ones that settled on Planet Vegeta settled on an unclaimed planet and over time became less savage and cruel. The new planet had some large and powerful wildlife so the Saiyans were more focused on survival than on conquering so that was partly how they were tamed.

[SupremeKai25]

Headcanon/theory I had about Zalama, I don't know how accurate this is but I believe that this specific line holds more meaning than most people think:

I'd like to point out an interesting thing that Fused Zamasu said in ep. 65 and that might be related to this topic:

"I, the God Zamasu, am the universal Wisdom, the universal Law, and yes, the universal Power."

As we all know, Zamasu wanted to be the sole God in the multiverse by embodying the wisdom, law, and power of the universe (the three aspects upon which the cosmos is built). Following what Zamasu said, we know that Zeno embodies the universal Power and Zuno embodies the universal Wisdom. Which leaves Zalama as the universal Law. This means that he is a "creator God", since you don't create power or wisdom, but you do create laws. So I agree with the theory that they are a "holy trinity" of sorts, each embodying one of the core aspects of creation. And if the three became one, the fused being would be the supreme God of all creation (which is what Zamasu wanted to become). It's an interesting line. I wonder if the writers already had a rought outline of Zalama's role back in the Future Trunks arc. Or maybe I'm just overanalyzing this, but I was reminded of this line while reading your theories that Zeno, Zuno, and Zalama form a holy trinity.

[The Undying]

Broly's green "Super Saiyan Full Power" form isn't just Broly at full power; it really is the ultimate Super Saiyan form at peak potential, combining SS with the power of Oozaru at its full capacity to evolve into the perfect representation of a Saiyan. Super Saiyan 2, 3 and so on is simply an alternate route for Saiyans unable to tap into their Oozaru power like Broly can.

I'm not much of a headcanon guy myself, but this is a category 1 that I (and many others) have been holding on to - and it's so "category 1" that the DB wiki has apparently decided to adopt it as fact, which I don't agree with for the record.

[pepd]

Just to point out that logical inferences would actually be part of the canon; not to be confused with probable inference, or “logical (wrong) inferences” that leads to people not being aware of their headcanon and sometimes getting angry at “contradictions”

I'd be inclined to agree with you, but one person's 'logical inference' is another's 'baseless headcanon'; I guess it depends on just how much data is 'enough' to infer from in a 'canonical' fashion.

Totally. I was referring to proper, formal logical inferences, that would be probable inferences or personal-logic/flawed logic inferences
---
-Kale SS is just a regular SS that because of suppressing such big power (for Califla) exploded/broke and kept increasing without stopping; Califla/Kyabe comments about a LSS is just a legend and reference.
I wold say the same about Broli (caused by his personality, father and collar) if it wasn't for the Ōzaru stuff.

-There are infinite timelines, the ones we know of and have a time-rings in this one are just the ones that are connected to this timeline.

[TobyS]

To use one of my own for Category 1:

I think all the main SSj forms have multiplier bands, rather than just being a straight multiplier as indicated in Guide Books - at least from the Cell Games onwards, when SSj gets mastered/used like it's basically normal:

• SSj: Goku powers up to half power for Karin in SSj. Similarly, Goten and Trunks power up to their maximum at Goku's demand, which they think is sufficiently different from the SSj power they've shown so far as to "freak 'em out";

• SSj2: The Daizenshuu says one of the reasons Gohan isn't as strong in SSj2 as an adult is that he isn't angered (so it's not all a question of having a weaker Base form); Vegeta gets a sense of Goku's SSj2 being stronger than him against Yakon, but freely concedes that he's looking forward to seeing how strong Goku really is just before they fight, and Goku likewise says he'll use full power to end the fight quickly (implying he wasn't when he used it earlier); and Trunks, of course, manages to wield an SSj2 form ranging from slightly stronger than SSj2 Goku to as strong as SSj3 Goku.

• SSj3: Against Kid Buu, Goku mentions that he's never managed to get to full power while fighting, and needs to power up for a full minute to get there.

What would I like to put these multiplier bands at (shading into Category 2, here)? Not sure, but probably something like this:

SSj: 10x - 50x Base
SSj2: 100x - 400x Base
SSj3: 400x - 800x Base

The trouble with this is the bands are necessarily small. Goku's first SS has to be more than 40x kaioken to be able to beat a Freeza that only a KKx20 could hurt when he was 50% combine that with how stompy the battle was in the manga it's gotta be a bit more than 40 50 is perfect.

The confusion with Gohan is due to him having rage boosts AND super Saiyan at the same time.

Of course SS2 + Rage is better than SS2 on it's own.

Gohans massive rage boosts predate SS.

Wether Gohan has a extra pool of potential that's separate to what SS draws out is unknown.

SS3 is the only slightly confusing one given that it's described as 4 times SS2 but ALSO is said to draw out power to its very limits...

So could Gohan rage while in SS3? Or would all his potential already be out there? This is the case with Ultimate form presumably but we never see a SS3 Gohan to see that.

My head canon is just that SS and rage both pull from the same reservoir but the whole reservoir only adds up to x400.

If not then Ultimate might be x400 plus rage + extra little magic boost (described as pulling out power beyond their limits)

[TobyS]

Oh, one more I forgot, though how much of a headcanon it really is, I'm not entirely sure...

- Piccolo was doomed against the Androids even if Cell hadn't intervened. Although evenly matched against #17, #17's unlimited stamina would have eventually worn him down. Hell, he was already starting to lose composure towards the end of the fight. Even if he'd won, there's another Android of almost equal strength to the one he'd just beaten, and yet another with even greater power, both just chilling on the sidelines. Piccolo didn't stand a chance in this scenario.

When Piccolo tries to blast Cell we see 17 pissing himself and leaping out the way just in time and the blast wasn't aimed directly at him.

While their stamina is infinite they can still be wounded and damaged.

They'd have fought for a bit and then he'd have aimed that move directly at 17 killing him.

You are completely correct he'd have been beaten by 18 afterwards but he was willing to die to stop Cell being complete. Perhaps Ten could intervene and save him. Depends on what 16 does too...

Vegeta would leave the chamber and beat whoever remains though.

[Jack Bz]

Before super, I used to head-canon with the original manga that the power of Goku as a super saiyan 3 is the absolute peak strength anything in the universe can attain naturally, and this is the reason why Kid Boo and Goku are evenly matched (apart from Boo's regeneration tipping things in his favour).

All other people stronger (Gotenks, Super Boo, Vegito, Gohan) are the results of fusion or magic. Elder Kai's technique is even specifically stated to take people way way above their limits. That's not to say that Gohan doesn't have more potential than Goku, it's just absolutely impossible for any living thing to get there through training alone, there needs to be some other magical intervention, and Goku getting that strong is practically supernatural itself in that he could only achieve it by training with a dead body in the afterlife.

I held this opinion up until RoF, as I could rationalise God Ki as just a new thing entirely and have the theory just apply to mortal ki. But then golden Freeza came along, stronger than a super saiyan god through training alone, and with no god ki. Then came along Hit, Jiren, Broly etc etc.