"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[ChronoTwigger]

Also Goku tried to kill Fused Zamasu with the hakai. Having trained with Beerus, Goku would know that hakai is a killing move that destroys the target completely, down to their soul. He had no problem destroying Zamasu and depriving him of an afterlife (not even the chance to reincarnate himself like Buu). So people should stop saying that Goku doesn't want to kill his enemies, because at this point in Super it's straight BS. This has absolutely nothing to do with "people not understanding Dragon Ball".

Goku fought Zamasu once fairly. He fought Zamasu fairly THRICE before understanding Zamasu wasn't a worthy opponent.
Zamasu wasn't not even dueling with him or challenge him, just focused on erasing everything, totally deranged.
Yes, I'll repeat: some people don't understand DragonBall.

[SupremeKai25]

Also Goku tried to kill Fused Zamasu with the hakai. Having trained with Beerus, Goku would know that hakai is a killing move that destroys the target completely, down to their soul. He had no problem destroying Zamasu and depriving him of an afterlife (not even the chance to reincarnate himself like Buu). So people should stop saying that Goku doesn't want to kill his enemies, because at this point in Super it's straight BS. This has absolutely nothing to do with "people not understanding Dragon Ball".

Goku fought Zamasu once fairly. He fought Zamasu fairly THRICE before understanding Zamasu wasn't a worthy opponent.
Zamasu wasn't not even dueling with him or challenge him, just focused on erasing everything, totally deranged.
Yes, I'll repeat: some people don't understand DragonBall.

Then Toriyama doesn't understand Dragon Ball, since he had Goku immediately kill Frieza in RoF.

And how is Moro a worthy opponent? All he has is stolen power, he didn't build anything by himself, all Moro has done is cheat his way to power. Even Zamasu trained more than Moro, because he had to get attuned to his new body.

[Skar]

However, it doesn't change the fact that the end point is still "righteous hero Goku who gives speeches about protecting people and friendship" and all that junk. It's very much a case of just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. You can come up with any number of plots to justify Goku acting like Superman, and in a logical manner, but should you? Is doing that worth diverging away from what makes Goku stand out among the many, many inferior clones of him across the various anime and manga made after Dragonball?

It was only a matter of time . It started when Goku's backstory was changed to be even closer to Superman's. He was originally sent a far planet to conquer it like any other Saiyan baby but now it was because his loving parents wanted to save him from his home planet's impeding doom. Now he also has Freeza as a recurring villain. It's a little different than what we're used in DB since villains either reform or they're deemed too evil and killed off aside from a few minor villains who were no longer a threat. In this arc, we have Goku joining a team of spandex wearing heroes and helping put escaped criminals back in jail.

Goku himself isn't necessarily becoming more like a superhero but I think modern DB was heading in a direction many of us wouldn't expect from the series so I guess this speech wouldn't be too unexpected now. I don't mind it to be honest (the speech not the other stuff). I still hope for something unexpected next chapter because Goku sparing a villain and it backfiring as already been done. It's not really subverting expectations if most people are already predicting it which is why I get the feeling it might be something else.

[The Bastard.]

Also Goku tried to kill Fused Zamasu with the hakai. Having trained with Beerus, Goku would know that hakai is a killing move that destroys the target completely, down to their soul. He had no problem destroying Zamasu and depriving him of an afterlife (not even the chance to reincarnate himself like Buu). So people should stop saying that Goku doesn't want to kill his enemies, because at this point in Super it's straight BS. This has absolutely nothing to do with "people not understanding Dragon Ball".

Goku fought Zamasu once fairly. He fought Zamasu fairly THRICE before understanding Zamasu wasn't a worthy opponent.
Zamasu wasn't not even dueling with him or challenge him, just focused on erasing everything, totally deranged.
Yes, I'll repeat: some people don't understand DragonBall.

Then Toriyama doesn't understand Dragon Ball, since he had Goku immediately kill Frieza in RoF.

And how is Moro a worthy opponent? All he has is stolen power, he didn't build anything by himself, all Moro has done is cheat his way to power. Even Zamasu trained more than Moro, because he had to get attuned to his new body.

Lmao, before Freeza destroyed earth and Whis came back in time for him to do the job?

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I just hope that when Moro is ultimately defeated for good that letting him go free is not considered an option. Because here's what would happen if Moro lived by the end of the arc.

Moro : Is allowed to live.

Proceeds to break out all his henchmen, power them up to the point the Z fighters can't stop them, draining planets that escaped his radar, drain Earth, kill everyone and look for ways to get to other universes, meaning they failed and that everyone basically screwed up.

[SupremeKai25]

Goku fought Zamasu once fairly. He fought Zamasu fairly THRICE before understanding Zamasu wasn't a worthy opponent.
Zamasu wasn't not even dueling with him or challenge him, just focused on erasing everything, totally deranged.
Yes, I'll repeat: some people don't understand DragonBall.

Then Toriyama doesn't understand Dragon Ball, since he had Goku immediately kill Frieza in RoF.

And how is Moro a worthy opponent? All he has is stolen power, he didn't build anything by himself, all Moro has done is cheat his way to power. Even Zamasu trained more than Moro, because he had to get attuned to his new body.

Lmao, before Freeza destroyed earth and Whis came back in time for him to do the job?

If Goku killed Moro, would he have done it before Moro ravaged the universe for two months and gained so much power that the angel Merus had to sacrifice himself for him to do the job?

[DiscountDabi]

Goku was under the impression that Gohan had been killed by Buu, alongside Vegeta, and was threatening the life of everyone on earth, yet Goku still didn’t kill Buu when given the chance.

Take with that as you will

[Kinokima]

Here is the thing I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility that Goku would spare a villain but there are just as many times that he doesn’t spare the villain

This isn’t a criticism of Goku it’s a criticism of the writing choosing this particular villain to show this theme and characterization of Goku’s now bothers me when Moro is shown to be a great ancient evil who is responsible for the suffering of many souls.

Like I said I’ll wait to see how this plays out but I am disappointed this is where the story is going. And even if it all turns out okay I’ll be disappointed because I think saying everything will turn out alright if Goku spares Moro is annoying too. So I just don’t see the development going in a direction I like either way

I could be wrong I often am. So I hope I do enjoy where this is leading. I mostly likely where this arc was going so it will be disappointing if I don’t like the ending but then I didn’t really like any of Super’s ending arcs except the U6 one so it’s par for the course I guess.

[Xeno Goku Black]

This Moro guy is gonna die without them ever really bothering to explain what is actual motivation is.

The guy showed up, was all "I wanna eat" and there's been fighting ever since.

I know Dragon Ball villains have never had the best motivations or development but the character has been written with nothing really going for him. This is what separates him from Zamasu because at least you knew what he was fighting for and why it mattered that he is defeated.

[Miracles]

Moro just restated his purpose. He is the eater of worlds. He wants to create a galaxy where he can freely eat. He doesn't want to pay for his food.

[Magnificent Ponta]

This Moro guy is gonna die without them ever really bothering to explain what is actual motivation is.

The guy showed up, was all "I wanna eat" and there's been fighting ever since.

I know Dragon Ball villains have never had the best motivations or development but the character has been written with nothing really going for him.

Well, that's his deal. And he's been very forthright about it. He sees everything as either a meal or an instrument for preparing his meal, and the obstacles he finds in people like Goku or Vegeta are just prospectively better meals. Feeding is the lens through which he views everything, and he's acting to secure that for the rest of ever, basically.

I think that the problem with Moro's characterisation is that this perspective he has is played absolutely straight down the middle; there's neither a 'twist', nor some layering, nor even a gag to leaven his gimmick which could make him feel more at home when set amidst other Dragon Ball villains. He's all about eating, and so he eats, and that's the threat.

Compare him with someone like Majin Buu, who is a horrifying villain who quite literally ate much of Earth's population, and you see the cartoonish twist of turning his victims into things that are edible (even cutesy) first, and it kind of points up the comparative feeling of dearth many people get from Moro's portrayal.

[Speedster]

Pretty sure that Goku saying “let me fight him as an Earthling from here on” means that he will use the Mafuba (a unique technique invented by an Earthling (Master Mutaito) to defeat to powerful non-Earthling (Piccolo Daimao)) and seal Moro up (he is pure evil after all) instead of killing him.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Pretty sure that Goku saying “let me fight him as an Earthling from here on” means that he will use the Mafuba (a unique technique invented by an Earthling (Master Mutaito) to defeat to powerful non-Earthling (Piccolo Daimao)) and seal Moro up (he is pure evil after all) instead of killing him.

The mafuba is legit at Roshi's house likely and unless Roshi is carrying it on him I don't think we have time for that. It's best for Goku to screw this up somehow and have someone else kill Moro off when he ultimately becomes too troublesome to keep around. I can see Goku screwing up somehow and Moro gets some upper-hand that ultimately gets defeated with a lot of effort before finally being put down for good.

[HulkTySSJ4]

Moro = DB Multiverse's Galactus

[Jack Bz]

Pretty sure that Goku saying “let me fight him as an Earthling from here on” means that he will use the Mafuba (a unique technique invented by an Earthling (Master Mutaito) to defeat to powerful non-Earthling (Piccolo Daimao)) and seal Moro up (he is pure evil after all) instead of killing him.

I disagree. I think Goku will wish back Garlic Jr, and send Moro to the dead zone.

[theherodjl]

Moro = DB Multiverse's Galactus

Kind of? The only thing they have in common is the ability to consume life energy. However, not only does Galactus consume the life energy of a world, he also absorbs the entire world itself and can even consume the entire universe if allowed to. Moro is more like the Marvel Zombies in that he just targets the living inhabitants of worlds and then moves on to the next.

[BWri]

Pretty sure that Goku saying “let me fight him as an Earthling from here on” means that he will use the Mafuba (a unique technique invented by an Earthling (Master Mutaito) to defeat to powerful non-Earthling (Piccolo Daimao)) and seal Moro up (he is pure evil after all) instead of killing him.

Wow! I never thought of that. You may indeed be a great prognosticator, as a certain DB YTuber would say. We'll have to wait and see, but this makes the most sense to me.

At this point, I honestly don't see the point of sparing Moro. And he has no real chemistry with Goku, like Frieza did, so I'm not sure why Goku would even bother this time. There is legitimately nothing to be gained by keeping him alive and no moral imperative for doing so. Maybe Toyotaro will end up using Moro again in the future to set up the next arc.

[Lionel]

I think the only element of nuance to Moro's characterisation would be his consuming Seven-Three -- the android was a criminal and he was guilty of murdering and plundering but he was violated egregiously by his own leader through no fault of his own. If there was going to be any moralisation of Moro's death besides Goku's on-and-off queasiness towards killing then the idea of executing a being who may not warrant it like Moro does should be it. Oh, but then again, they showed no qualms with killing #17 in the process of Cell dying so maybe it won't pose an issue after all.

[TobyS]

Moro = DB Multiverse's Galactus

Kind of? The only thing they have in common is the ability to consume life energy. However, not only does Galactus consume the life energy of a world, he also absorbs the entire world itself and can even consume the entire universe if allowed to. Moro is more like the Marvel Zombies in that he just targets the living inhabitants of worlds and then moves on to the next.

Yeah Galactus had some bullshit retcon that he was cosmically necessary just to save Reeds character of dooming countless other worlds by being too selfish to fire the ultimate nullifier. (which is a dark and horrible concept, it works better with Beerus in DB because DB is more of a cynical less heroic setting in the first place and we know gods go around creating life as much as he kills it).

He's much more like the zombies where he's a basically a virus to the universe and they'd be better off without him.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Moro = DB Multiverse's Galactus

Kind of? The only thing they have in common is the ability to consume life energy. However, not only does Galactus consume the life energy of a world, he also absorbs the entire world itself and can even consume the entire universe if allowed to. Moro is more like the Marvel Zombies in that he just targets the living inhabitants of worlds and then moves on to the next.

Yeah Galactus had some bullshit retcon that he was cosmically necessary just to save Reeds character of dooming countless other worlds by being too selfish to fire the ultimate nullifier. (which is a dark and horrible concept, it works better with Beerus in DB because DB is more of a cynical less heroic setting in the first place and we know gods go around creating life as much as he kills it).

He's much more like the zombies where he's a basically a virus to the universe and they'd be better off without him.

Also from a narrative perspective, keeping Moro alive would be hard to write given all his abilities and I can't see him being a recurring villain. Moro isn't even a warrior, he's a parasite that needs to be neutralized ASP. He literally eats planets, keeping someone like that alive when they are shown to be a pure evil monster would be hard to justify. Him living past this arc would come back to bite them and if he isn't killed/erased/dealt with somehow we know that everyone will die.