The treatment of Vegeta in modern dragonball, good or bad?

[DBNamek]

With Vegeta, there is multiple opinions on how he's treated. Some say he hasn't giving the treatment he deserved, such as beating a main villain. Some say he's been treated fine, being the 2nd main character in the franchise. Some say he gets more treatment than he deserves, compared to 99% of the cast.

Looking back at how Vegeta is treated in modern dragon ball, do you think Vegeta was treated fairly, or not? Do you think he deserved better or not?

[LoganForkHands73]

Personally, I think he's been treated more than fairly, insofar as a fictional character can be. The man gets more exposure, screentime and storyline focus now than he probably ever has in the whole of Z. Alongside Goku, Vegeta's there at the centre of every single movie, every arc, every video game, yet for some reason he's hard-done-by because he hasn't defeated a major villain singlehanded? I'm fairly certain his win-loss record is at least equal, maybe even better than Goku's in Super. He had Freeza grovelling at his feet (and one-shots Ginyu in the anime but even I'd rather not acknowledge that), he plowed through most of the Universe 6 team with minimal effort, he beat Goku Black to a pulp, he had a very respectable performance throughout the Tournament of Power with a body count including a newly ascended Hakaishin in the anime... In the manga version, Goku doesn't get a single solo elimination whereas Vegeta at least gets two. The Moro arc gave him even more focus than usual and the possibility of him taking the W in the end is still very much on the cards.

In terms of development, a lot of people say Vegeta is now boring and constantly regressing in characterisation. In some areas, I can agree that there's questionable blips but for the most part I think he's handled fine. For the most part, both Toei and Toyotaro have a good handle on his character. When Vegeta got his grand redemption arc in the Buu arc, there was never any promise made that he would become some flawless anointed saint who will never make any mistakes again. Vegeta still is and probably always will be a proud, arrogant guy with a bit of a chip on his shoulder, but he's now willing to put all that aside when push comes to shove... usually. Some beats are rather silly and retrograde, like his apparent refusal to properly learn the Instant Transmission technique from the Yardrats purely because Kakarrot can also do it? But then, some developments in the current arc like his struggles with accepting himself as a hero, still regarding himself as a villain in spite of all the good he's done because he can't let his bad deeds go, are fascinating and show depth.

[Grimlock]

So-so, it could have been a lot better. Yes, he needs to kill a main antagonist (mainly if this antagonist turns out be Freeza) and he should let his rivalry with Goku aside. It doesn't really make sense for him to still be obsessed with it when he admitted Goku is number one a few years ago (in-universe). He also shouldn't have regressed a bit in personality and mainly in clothes. Going back to Cell saga attire... why?

Not much has been done with Xeno Vegeta in terms of character development/progession but I like the events/context he has been putting in. He also seems more "in line" compared to the last time we saw him in the end of Dragon Ball GT, so that's a plus.

And then there is his ending established by Dragon Ball Online, liked his ambiguous and mysterious finale. Hopefully it gets adapted some day.

[Kinokima]

As I said in the other thread it’s not a matter of Vegeta needing to beat a main villain but the idea of the story always building him like he has a chance just so he can lose is frustrating to me. It’s fine that he doesn’t beat a main villain but I rather he get to play a different role than always failing against the main villain. Let him help out in a positive way without beating the main villain.

Perhaps I would not be so annoyed at this if I didn’t constantly see jokes and memes bashing Vegeta for always losing.

The regression argument I completely disagree with (especially people who say he is like Cell Vegeta) that said I feel they haven’t done anything new and interesting with the character or when they do (his training on Yadrat) it’s right back to the same status quo.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

I'm not entirely sure what people are wanting when they say Vegeta should have been treated a lot better in modern Dragon Ball. I admit that I haven't read most of the Super manga (I'll get there soon once I finish the Android/Cell and Buu Arcs), but based on what I've seen of the Super anime, I definitely disagree. And yes, I was one of the people angry at Resurrection F. But I think there is still a lot to appreciate about Vegeta right now even if he hasn't had the "Big W" against a villain yet. While Vegeta currently might still be in a rivalry with Goku, the rivalry is much more healthy and more about self-betterment than the "I am the Prince of All Saiyans"-blahblahblah that he kept spouting back in Z. He has grown into a much better person, too. And it's still neat that, in the anime at least, he gained Evolved Blue or whatever the term is. Idk, I'd argue that characters like Piccolo, Tien, Gohan pre-Recruitment Arc, and honestly even Goku (besides the BOG film and Ultra Instinct) are treated much MUCH worse in modern Dragon Ball (when I say modern Dragon Ball btw, I'm talking BOG onward).

[Koitsukai]

I think it's been good.

In BoG he was set aside and Goku got the SSG glory, but he did get that scene where his rage surpassed Goku's SS3, so there's that.
In RoF he had his revenge although that whole rewind time thing sort of peed all over it, and he didn't get to kill Freeza, but he got to trash him.
In the U6 arc he got screwed over, he was the MVP until the real fight started.
In the FT arc I think he was the MVP for the first half, he proved to be so much stronger than Goku. He was portrayed as dumb as hell, doing the same mistakes from the previous arc (the SSB stamina issue), but then he came back with the switch and was astounding. The second portion of the arc belonged to Goku.
In the ToP he was pretty much background, he only had a couple of panels to shine and Jiren just elbowed him to dust, making him look like an idiot. His final stand wasn't remarkable either.
In the current arc he revived all the nameks that died when Moro ate the planet, and he got to defeat FP Moro even if he came back stronger than ever. I'd say he got the best treatment of the entire series in this arc, not just in the fighting department.

The anime treated him better during the ToP, he got to destroy a hakaishin.

So to me, he's having the time of his life.

[Kagari]

He gets treated far better than fans make it out to be, often getting a bunch of screentime that takes away from the main plot (see Goku vs Jiren in the anime ToP).

[EGonzo]

I think he's been treated well, especially in the anime. He gets good screentime and shows how he's developed as a loving person (how he's mostly deadly serious throughout the Black arc because he wants to help Trunks's world), and how he's still developing (begging Whis to train him, and later achieving a new form for someone else's sake). I'm not a big fan of manga Vegeta because Toyo keeps having him go through the same development beats over and over (learning to get teachers, only to say he reached the heights he's in by himself and refusing having a teacher again, only to beg the Yardrats to teach him, among other beats)

[Matches Malone]

Vegeta is by far the most character to benefit from modern DB, even more so than Goku who I think has been written terribly, so all the complaining about him never made sense to me. If you're a Vegeta fan, then modern DB is the best thing to ever happen to him. If you want to see Vegeta treated bad, go re-watch GT or Z's original 13 movies, as he was there just to look bad.

[Kinokima]

I don’t think Vegeta is treated badly more so that I don’t think they know how to use him now that he’s “good”. It’s been pretty much the same formula with him since the beginning of Super and it’s just tiresome at this point. But my issue with Vegeta is really just an overall issue with modern DB that they don’t know where to take these characters.

The question also wasn’t is Vegeta treated worse than other characters or better than he was in the past. I am certainly not saying that other characters don’t get treated badly too. But is Super really writing him well? Actually I’d argue he’s not really treated better than he was in Z. In Z Vegeta was not a nice guy until the end but played an important role through every arc. He also gradually changed in every arc. Even his embarrassing losses in Z made sense because they were important to his growth as a character. The Buu Saga he was probably treated best of all even though he disappeared for a good chunk of that arc.

[TobyS]

His manga characterisation is incredible but subtle he's nice to 17 and smiles at his newborn baby.
Even seems friendly when he greats the others at the ToP assembly at CC.

In the anime he's a parody of a character, assaulting people while playing baseball and flaring into ssblue when Yamcha even holds his baby. Pathetic.

I always hated vegeta but the super manga is actually making him grow on me.

[Kinokima]

His manga characterisation is incredible but subtle he's nice to 17 and smiles at his newborn baby.
Even seems friendly when he greats the others at the ToP assembly at CC.

In the anime he's a parody of a character, assaulting people while playing baseball and flaring into ssblue when Yamcha even holds his baby. Pathetic.

I always hated vegeta but the super manga is actually making him grow on me.

I mean the main issue with the anime in this regard is there were a number of writers & a lot of inconsistencies. Toyo generally writes Vegeta’s personality well but there are moments in my opinion he slips up too. But every character has bad moments like this in the manga and anime. A lot of times the bad moments are exaggerated for Vegeta by certain fans.

Also as for your examples Vegeta turned blue not because Yamcha was holding Bra but because she started to cry.

[TobyS]

His manga characterisation is incredible but subtle he's nice to 17 and smiles at his newborn baby.
Even seems friendly when he greats the others at the ToP assembly at CC.

In the anime he's a parody of a character, assaulting people while playing baseball and flaring into ssblue when Yamcha even holds his baby. Pathetic.

I always hated vegeta but the super manga is actually making him grow on me.

I mean the main issue with the anime in this regard is there were a number of writers & a lot of inconsistencies. Toyo generally writes Vegeta’s personality well but there are moments in my opinion he slips up too. But every character has bad moments like this in the manga and anime. A lot of times the bad moments are exaggerated for Vegeta by certain fans.

Also as for your examples Vegeta turned blue not because Yamcha was holding Bra but because she started to cry.

I mean it's just lots of cumulative examples of him generally being a huffy bitch over nothing.

I like his voice actor I wish they'd write him like the manga.

The anime occasionally has him think of Bulma and Trunks but like show don't tell. He's not a child and he's lived on earth so long he should be able to show emotion normally at this point. I dunno.

[Matches Malone]

My issue with Vegeta is really just an overall issue with modern DB that they don’t know where to take these characters.

That's because there isn't anywhere to take them, their arcs were concluded in the original manga. I think they did a great job in BOG with pushing things forward, but that was about it. You can get away with one or two more stories, but anything more and you just end up with more of the same.

[JewyB]

My issue with Vegeta is really just an overall issue with modern DB that they don’t know where to take these characters.

That's because there isn't anywhere to take them, their arcs were concluded in the original manga. I think they did a great job in BOG with pushing things forward, but that was about it. You can get away with one or two more stories, but anything more and you just end up with more of the same.

Please, its not like Gohan's development has been whittled down to deciding to start training every arc!

[Kinokima]

My issue with Vegeta is really just an overall issue with modern DB that they don’t know where to take these characters.

That's because there isn't anywhere to take them, their arcs were concluded in the original manga. I think they did a great job in BOG with pushing things forward, but that was about it. You can get away with one or two more stories, but anything more and you just end up with more of the same.

I completely disagree with this. Obviously Vegeta isn’t going to go through as major change as he did in Z and I am not expecting that but to say the only thing they can do with the character is have him chase continuously after Goku and fight and ultimately lose to every main villain is kind of well what’s the point?

[Matches Malone]

I completely disagree with this. Obviously Vegeta isn’t going to go through as major change as he did in Z and I am not expecting that but to say the only thing they can do with the character is have him chase continuously after Goku and fight and ultimately lose to every main villain is kind of well what’s the point?

There is still some room for development, just not enough to sustain a continuation that could have as many arcs, if not more than the original. I'm not just talking about Vegeta, but everyone.

[LoganForkHands73]

I see a lot of praise for Goku's "non-arc" as it were, i.e. his general lack of change and why that's good for Dragon Ball's narrative. While I have some issues with that whole hypothesis and I think it's fairly evident that modern Dragon Ball very much is interested in exploring Vegeta's character with some degree of depth and taking it to new places (I mean, even at the end of the Buu arc, could you imagine Vegeta coddling baby Bra the way he does now?), but I don't see why it's so bad for Vegeta to stay in the relatively stable, consistent place he is now in terms of characterisation? If it's okay for Goku, why not Vegeta? He's firmly settled into a role as the bad cop to Goku's good cop. He's still rough around the edges, he's still kind of an insecure dick, but like Goku he's unwittingly changing other people around him for the better by being a "static character". Cabba is obviously the major one, but he's also helped inspired Future Trunks, Toppo and Jiren out of their issues, all by being so stubbornly, tenaciously principled to his core values.

[JewyB]

I see a lot of praise for Goku's "non-arc" as it were, i.e. his general lack of change and why that's good for Dragon Ball's narrative. While I have some issues with that whole hypothesis and I think it's fairly evident that modern Dragon Ball very much is interested in exploring Vegeta's character with some degree of depth and taking it to new places (I mean, even at the end of the Buu arc, could you imagine Vegeta coddling baby Bra the way he does now?), but I don't see why it's so bad for Vegeta to stay in the relatively stable, consistent place he is now in terms of characterisation? If it's okay for Goku, why not Vegeta? He's firmly settled into a role as the bad cop to Goku's good cop. He's still rough around the edges, he's still kind of an insecure dick, but like Goku he's unwittingly changing other people around him for the better by being a "static character". Cabba is obviously the major one, but he's also helped inspired Future Trunks, Toppo and Jiren out of their issues, all by being so stubbornly, tenaciously principled to his core values.

I agree with this, people complain about characters lack of development in DB but people aren't always developing, some people are content, Vegeta and Gohan are prime examples. I think for Vegeta and Gohan to develop in the way people want them too are actually people wanting them to regress into the characters they used to be because they dont like the development, which is fine, but the opposite of how they present the argument.

I also don't like the argument of "But Vegeta claimed Goku was number 1 why does he want to surpass him now", as though people have never had an epiphany then fallen back into a bad habit immediately afterwards. Hell i knock that out three times before breakfast, the meal i totally accept should be healthy but habitually it is usually not. Old habits die hard, the smaller changes that stick are true development.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

My issue with Vegeta is really just an overall issue with modern DB that they don’t know where to take these characters.

That's because there isn't anywhere to take them, their arcs were concluded in the original manga. I think they did a great job in BOG with pushing things forward, but that was about it. You can get away with one or two more stories, but anything more and you just end up with more of the same.

I have to co-sign on this. I'm not seeing the Vegeta disrespect. Vegeta became a punching back in the Namek/Ginyu/Freeza arcs, and it continued throughout the rest of Z, but he's had his share of moments (his introduction, turning SSJ for the first time) where he was the strongest person in the room by a landslide.. It was still a part of his character development and growth, so I didn't see it as "disrespectful" even there. Those beatdowns were a necessary part of his character arc. The Z movies for sure disrespected him, especially the first Broly movie by having him act completely out of character by being too scared to fight Broly. Thankfully, Super Broly rectified that. Even if you look at Vegeta vs. Super Broly, there was never a moment where Vegeta appeared outclassed. And it wasn't just that...it was also his cool, calm "Let's get this over with" demeanor when he first saw Broly. No more boasting or even haughty arrogance; just a staredown and if anything, mild irritation at the new challenger. If anything, he had the upper hand during his solo fight. Just about every Vegeta fan I can think of was a happy camper that day.

You can make the case that his character development peaked (it did in the Buu arc) and that there's nowhere to go, but that's the same for every character since the end of the OG manga (it either peaked there or way before for the other characters). At least (imho) Vegeta has not regressed like Goku has.