If that's the case, you can simply argue Beerus didn't sense anywhere close to Goku's max power even in base form, since to what degree he could sense Goku's power would be headcanon.TobyS wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:33 amNo one's saying Goku was at full power standing around kaiosamas.Sūpāsaiya wrote:
Regarding the "Freeza VS. Base Saiyans" thing, that was a completely casual Goku. To say he's at full power when introducing himself is kind of out there. It's also contradicted by the base Saiyans surpassing characters STRONGER than Freeza in the Boo arc. For example, Goku and Vegeta surpassing Shin is quite evident when Shin is shitting himself when Pui Pui shows up. Now, a lot of people sleep on Pui Pui simply because he got dominated by Vegeta, but that's just proof of Vegeta's strength. Even after receiving Super Saiyan 2 Gohan's energy back at the tournament, Babidi and Dabura were confident that Pui Pui could take them all on his own without trouble.
As for Trunks and Goten in comparison to Namek Freeza, they actually put up a good fight against Android #18 surprisingly. While restricted in the Mighty Mask costume, the both of them took turns swapping hands with her. There's nothing to imply #18 would be heavily suppressed against them when she appears to be completely serious, even taking damage and sweating. When they went Super Saiyan, Goten told Trunks to hold back, and he confirmed he would, and even so #18 barely avoided and was shitting herself.
Goten and Trunks could very well be beyond Namek Freeza.
Beerus can see Goku is chilling and not flaring up and aura and shit. He's not retarded.
Characters can sense what characters are holding in reserve sometimes.
Kuririn can sense Cell is holding back and that Trunks is hiding a transformation. Korin can tell Cells full power in relation to 50% of Goku's.
We know babidi and Dabra can tell the saiyans are hiding a lot of power when all of them are suppressed to 0. (But not all of it because they aren't like oh shit a SS3! Run!)
We know the ss forms are multipliers and we know SS2 Goku and vegeta at Buu are not much far ahead of SS2 Gohan. They state they are a bit stronger when fighting each other and later Piccolo puts em in the same ballpark so they aren't miles ahead of their cell games selves in equivilant forms.
So they can't be stronger then Piccolo and Kaioshin in base when they weren't before that.
We know from the guidebook that Kibito would be a good fight for Base Gohan. And that Kaioshin is tonnes stronger then him.
We know that Kaioshin can hold SS2 tier people (when mortally wounded as seen in super) down with his tk. While Chaozu couldn't hold Nappa due to the power difference.)
Piccolo is not scared of fighting base saiyans but is piss scared of Kaioshin. (And we know from the original Japanese translations it uses the same phrasing as earlier power comparisons not just talking about godly station)
I'm going off memory here but you can't sense majinised people's chi properly/at all right? Like the two dudes at the tournament.
Goku only makes a power statement about Dabra being like cell when he sees him move to blast Dabra and spit on the others. He then has to revise his estimate upwards when he sees him fight Gohan.
Kaioshin just has massive majin/buu related trauma. His feats, landing and tanking hits against fat Buu put him dimensions above pui pui.
For the Boo Saga Saiyans still scaling to Cell Saga Gohan, the Daizenshuu implies that Gohan was as strong as he was against Cell, but even so with his Super Saiyan 2 he wasn't close to his level back then. You could argue that Gohan got a rage boost in the Cell Games is what I'm getting at.
Piccolo not being scared of base Saiyans would be related to them being suppressed an abysmal amount. Vegeta was also fully confident that the tournament would be a piece of cake even knowing that he was forbidden use of Super Saiyan.
Kaioshin only held Super Saiyan 2 Gohan still, not the likes of Goku or Vegeta. And as I specified, this is the anime, in which Gohan receives a power boost after Kibito heals him when his energy was drained previously, hence why he'd be confident he could take on Pui Pui himself. So you could actually make the argument that Gohan surpassed his Super Saiyan 2 self just by recovering.
Shin taking hits from Boo, who's just playing around doesn't really have to mean anything. Won't bring up Mr. Satan in this, but base Vegeta can take hits from Pure Boo, with both Fat Boo and Pure Boo really liking to dick around. I agree that Shin mostly feared Pui Pui due to him being recruited by Babidi and would likely be one of the strongest in the universe, but Babidi and Dabura's confidence in him still stands.
