MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 11/9/20!)

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/14/20!)

Post by Scsigs » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:10 pm

When it comes to Videl VS Spopovich, I think I have a few good explanations as to why it comes off as uncomfortable. Bear in mind that I've only seen the anime versions in DBZ & Kai: TFC, though I'm not sure how much filler may have been added to Z, then removed for Kai, so I'm not too familiar with how the manga did things before Z.

Reason #1: We'd seen Videl up until this point. She started off as a bratty, mostly angry girl who was the daughter of Mr. Satan. However, Toriyama allowed her a bit of time to let her grow out of the bratty part of her & calm down a lot through her interactions with Gohan. The audience was allowed to see how she grew & warmed up to her through her character development. So, we have an attachment that was pretty well-earned by her. So, seeing her beaten down as much as she was is understandably uncomfortable since the audience just grew a liking to her & it seems like she's being beaten down before she can do anything really substantive.

Reason #2: However, take into account that all she has in the way of superhuman abilities, especially with Ki control, is that she can fly & it comes off as a way to raise the stakes, especially with the fact that, when she's beaten down by a visibly stronger & overly bad-looking opponent that we know not a lot about that shows to be a LOT stronger than her, it comes off as an understandably uncomfortable moment. I think that's mainly why Toriyama used her to raise the stakes. He should've changed the way it was executed, but he didn't. He often uses the weakest character getting their asses whooped to raise the stakes when things get more serious.

Either way, I personally don't think it's a matter of gender or anything. I think it's other things, just like how you brought up that it's not that Videl's a woman that she got sidelined, just that she stopped being important. I would also argue it's because Gohan cared for her that he told her to hang back. Realistically, it makes sense for the stronger characters to not want the weaker ones to be in harm's way, particularly loved ones. So, I doubt it's a gender issue.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/31/20!)

Post by Kid Buu » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:22 pm

You say you don't want to turn your brain off but Toriyama says If you could please enjoy that Dragon World without thinking about anything, I’ll be happy.

Wonder how fans would recept this fight if it was someone like Krillin or Yamcha in Videl's place.

Always thought Spopvich and Dabura could have been the same character. Would have helped build up Gohan's fight with Dabura more.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/31/20!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:31 pm

Kid Buu wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:22 pm
You say you don't want to turn your brain off but Toriyama says If you could please enjoy that Dragon World without thinking about anything, I’ll be happy.
Yeah, and you could say I've never forgiven him for encouraging such things.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/31/20!)

Post by UI Peter » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:27 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:31 pm
Kid Buu wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:22 pm
You say you don't want to turn your brain off but Toriyama says If you could please enjoy that Dragon World without thinking about anything, I’ll be happy.
Yeah, and you could say I've never forgiven him for encouraging such things.
Me neither. It's very disappointing and it showcases a lack of regard for any standard of quality when making the series smh.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/31/20!)

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:26 pm

UI Peter wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:27 am
Gaffer Tape wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:31 pm
Kid Buu wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:22 pm
You say you don't want to turn your brain off but Toriyama says If you could please enjoy that Dragon World without thinking about anything, I’ll be happy.
Yeah, and you could say I've never forgiven him for encouraging such things.
Me neither. It's very disappointing and it showcases a lack of regard for any standard of quality when making the series smh.
That statement should have been a red flag for Toriyama's mentality when it comes to telling stories these days. You should never have to turn your brain off to enjoy a narrative.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/31/20!)

Post by Scsigs » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:16 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:26 pm
UI Peter wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:27 am
Gaffer Tape wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:31 pm
Yeah, and you could say I've never forgiven him for encouraging such things.
Me neither. It's very disappointing and it showcases a lack of regard for any standard of quality when making the series smh.
That statement should have been a red flag for Toriyama's mentality when it comes to telling stories these days. You should never have to turn your brain off to enjoy a narrative.
I wonder if that's why Super's anime's writing is incredibly inconsistent & dealing with Goku's flanderization requires people turn off their brains & just go, "well, that's how he always was," or, "this is what Toriyama wanted Goku to be like," even though those statements are objectively not true if you've ever watched or read DB's anime shows (& the movies directly written by Toriyama himself) or the manga & it's clearly a fault of the anime's writers for not understanding the inherent nuance of Goku's characterization. If Toriyama really cared about how the anime writers were representing his characters, I'm pretty sure he would've called in to Toei & told them to correct it & how to do so. He was basically in charge of the storytelling, so he could've done so.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/31/20!)

Post by UI Peter » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:53 pm

Scsigs wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:16 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:26 pm
UI Peter wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:27 am

Me neither. It's very disappointing and it showcases a lack of regard for any standard of quality when making the series smh.
That statement should have been a red flag for Toriyama's mentality when it comes to telling stories these days. You should never have to turn your brain off to enjoy a narrative.
I wonder if that's why Super's anime's writing is incredibly inconsistent & dealing with Goku's flanderization requires people turn off their brains & just go, "well, that's how he always was," or, "this is what Toriyama wanted Goku to be like," even though those statements are objectively not true if you've ever watched or read DB's anime shows (& the movies directly written by Toriyama himself) or the manga & it's clearly a fault of the anime's writers for not understanding the inherent nuance of Goku's characterization. If Toriyama really cared about how the anime writers were representing his characters, I'm pretty sure he would've called in to Toei & told them to correct it & how to do so. He was basically in charge of the storytelling, so he could've done so.
The charactization in the Super manga is even shallower and more flanderized (especially in the ToP). Its not just a Toei thing when the manga does it even worse.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/14/20!)

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:07 pm

I don't think Videl would have been jailed for breaking Spopo's neck, nor was she violating any rules. It's accepted in combat sports that your opponent might die, which is why you both agree beforehand that no one will be held legally liable in the case of death or serious injury. This is especially the case in boxing where the main way to win is to beat your opponent into unconsciousness via head trauma; no grappling here. Stomping on someone's head while they're down is illegal in pretty much every combat sport I can think of though, for obvious reasons.

It's a shame that the brutality is focused on so much (by the framing, by the fandom, and especially by the anime) because the fight was pretty well choreographed and it's a good character moment for Videl, otherwise a bit player. In regards to the fight I particularly like how it showed Videl starting with the advantage but progressively tiring against her zombie-like adversary.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/31/20!)

Post by Kid Buu » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:09 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:26 pm
UI Peter wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:27 am
Gaffer Tape wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:31 pm


Yeah, and you could say I've never forgiven him for encouraging such things.
Me neither. It's very disappointing and it showcases a lack of regard for any standard of quality when making the series smh.
That statement should have been a red flag for Toriyama's mentality when it comes to telling stories these days. You should never have to turn your brain off to enjoy a narrative.
Wonder if that was his thought process in the 80s and 90s too.
RandomGuy96 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:07 pm
It's a shame that the brutality is focused on so much (by the framing, by the fandom, and especially by the anime) because the fight was pretty well choreographed and it's a good character moment for Videl, otherwise a bit player. In regards to the fight I particularly like how it showed Videl starting with the advantage but progressively tiring against her zombie-like adversary.
I like the fight too. Actually I like Goten/Trunks and Eighteen/Mighty Mask as well. Not many people talk about them.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/14/20!)

Post by pepd » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:47 am

To be fair, one thing is to not actively (over)think and analyze something that is just meant to be fun, and other to actively avoid/block thinking, that is what the DBS anime requires (to a level I'm personally incapable/unwilling of doing, at that). Toriyama is probably talking about the first.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 8/31/20!)

Post by Dbzfan94 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:01 am

Kid Buu wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:09 am
Lord Beerus wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:26 pm
UI Peter wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:27 am


Me neither. It's very disappointing and it showcases a lack of regard for any standard of quality when making the series smh.
That statement should have been a red flag for Toriyama's mentality when it comes to telling stories these days. You should never have to turn your brain off to enjoy a narrative.
Wonder if that was his thought process in the 80s and 90s too.
RandomGuy96 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:07 pm
It's a shame that the brutality is focused on so much (by the framing, by the fandom, and especially by the anime) because the fight was pretty well choreographed and it's a good character moment for Videl, otherwise a bit player. In regards to the fight I particularly like how it showed Videl starting with the advantage but progressively tiring against her zombie-like adversary.
I like the fight too. Actually I like Goten/Trunks and Eighteen/Mighty Mask as well. Not many people talk about them.
Goten vs Trunks is axtually one of my favorites!

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/14/20!)

Post by Noah » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:04 am

Finally got time to catch up as it was been a year since my last post on this thread.

DBD TV The Freeza arc:

- Never thought that were actual reasons for the padding throughout this arc in the anime, aside from production issues (focusing on movies), but also that the anime was getting close to the manga real fast.

- Though I do enjoy the majority of fillers in the Saiyan arc, I despise a lot in this arc, but you made me valuate them more.

DBD TV The Garlic Jr. Arc:

- Not much to say about it, never liked Garlic Jr. either in his movie or in this filler arc, but I kinda enjoyed the parts with Maron.

Movie #9:

- Since it was a long while since I watched this movie, never thought much about how the concept of this tournament was leap and bounds better than the mess we got in the Universe Survival arc of DBS.

Plan to Eradicate the (Super) Saiyans:

- This could have been a good filler arc if it was more elaborated, including the quests presented in the game. I would be interested to know more about the Tsufurian and Hatchyack is a good designed villain even though he's bland like Jiren.

Current Majin Boo arc dissection:

- I always liked the Great Saiyaman portion of this arc, especially in the anime, too bad it didn't had any big payoff any then later Videl also joins Gohan fighting crime as the Great Saiyaman No. 2 (also filler).

- The child division of the Tenkaichi Budokai was also something the anime did better than Toriyama and I also agree that Goten vs. Trunks were one of the best fights of this arc.

- I laughed hard when you said that if Videl actually killed Spopovich by broking his neck that would remembered forever as the day the daughter of the champion murdered a guy in the tournament. But, seriously though, I remember as a kid that this fight disturbed me a lot, to the point that I couldn't even watch it all, not just because it was a girl, but the way presented felt so damn real. Nowadays still disturbs me a little, but I do have the same vision as you: Spopovich was playing according the rules and he shouldn't hold back just because his opponent was a woman.



The Future of Dragon Ball Dissection:

- It kinda makes me mad that related DB channels with so low content has so many subscribers, while channels like yours that we can see how much effort you put on it, don't get half of the same portion.

- Anyway I would love to you not only complete the final arc of DB manga, but also cover its TV adaptation, movies, GT, other specials, recent movies and then Super, cause I'm really interested in your analysis about how the franchise evolved from now on, but I know that require a lot amount of work and yes the channel to not only get more popular but also more supporters in the Patreon and I willing to support that, hope more people do the same.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/14/20!)

Post by Matches Malone » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:39 am

Noah wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:04 am

Since it was a long while since I watched this movie, never thought much about how the concept of this tournament was leap and bounds better than the mess we got in the Universe Survival arc of DBS.

-It kinda makes me mad that related DB channels with so low content has so many subscribers, while channels like yours that we can see how much effort you put on it, don't get half of the same portion.

Anyway I would love to you not only complete the final arc of DB manga, but also cover its TV adaptation, movies, GT, other specials, recent movies and then Super, cause I'm really interested in your analysis about how the franchise evolved from now on.
Not really a complement considering just about anything is better than that terrible tournament.

I completely agree, as there are channels that are just annoying screaming and fake laughing on random gameplay that somehow have subscribers within the late 5 digits/6 digits. It really goes to show just how simple minded this fanbase is.

I definitely want to see GT covered at least, as that's part of the original 80s and 90s run. Although I'd also like to see the modern stuff included as well, I understand why it may not be, as there's so much content to cover compared to something like GT which is just a one off 65 episode series.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 9/14/20!)

Post by Mad Swami » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:25 am

I'm a big fan. I love DBD and I find he's great to listen to as I work or write my DB fanfic. Even if I disagree with him on a decent amount of thoughts. He's kind of like the Fantano of Dragonball. Somebody who even if I disagree with I can't deny he presented his opinion with fair reasoning.

Guy said the Red Ribbon arc is better than the Frieza one and was able to make me understand.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/12/20!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:04 am

Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Who? - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Majin Boo Arc Part 8!

And here it is! Eight episodes in, and we finally get to the plot. This is such a focused storyline, isn't it? =P

As an aside, I loved the recent comments in this thread. It was nice to see thoughts on everything put out for the last year. It was a nice trip down memory lane for me. And all of the kind words are very uplifting. To me it's the greatest compliment to be told that my opinions are valid when it's being said right after "I don't agree with them, but..." So thank you!
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/12/20!)

Post by jjgp1112 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:19 pm

Huh, so that's why Viz named Puipui "Pocus." That was always odd to me.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/12/20!)

Post by Kid Buu » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:54 pm

Hmm, now that I look at your manga in that video the artwork for the Buu Saga is better than I remember.

I always wonderd what was going on through Gohan's mind during the whole energy drian. "Why can't I move? Why is no one helping?" :lol:

Fun Fact: the episode where the energy drain happened premiered on the day I was born!
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/12/20!)

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:29 am

I wish you would’ve covered Spopovich’s death, but it looks like that’s for next time. That was a moment that really weirded me out when I watched it as a kid.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/12/20!)

Post by Mad Swami » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:41 am

I am interested to hear your thoughts on the whole spaceship scene. I am also excited for the rock paper scissors arc you've built to come to an end lol

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 10/12/20!)

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:49 am

Mad Swami wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:41 am
I am also excited for the rock paper scissors arc you've built to come to an end lol
It was also played between Goku and Vegeta to decide who'd fight kid buu first.

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