Goku after Super

[batistabus]

As fans, I'd like to hear your predictions for Goku's characterization in a hypothetical post-Super scenario. In this scenario, Goku and Oob are a duo - fairly equally in the spotlight - with their relationship on full display. A classic Toriyama story of unlikely friends.

As far as I see it, Toriyama's favorite three characters to write are the "odd pure youth", "cute girl attitude", and "disillusioned old man". We've seen Goku grow-up from that odd youth into something outside of those archetypes in the Boo arc (plus Super). As he ages, how do you think his personality might change? Could we ever get a full-on-old-man-territory Goku?

Goku absolutely never changes. Is that all there is to it?

We saw other artists take a stab at this hypothetical Goku with DBGT. Did they get it right? Even if they did, I don't think we should expect Goku reverting to his youth again.

As of the Boo arc, Goku's adventurous - yet poisonous - drive for battle shapes his actions. Does Goku get more or less poisonous as he ages? It's been an ebb and flow over the course of the series. As a youth, he killed without remorse...as any animal would. After training with God, he gained a new sense of morality. Once he became a father - resisting domestication - his untamed nature started seeping back in. Vegeta's not the only Saiyan to struggle with a peaceful life. While Saiyans stay young for a long time, and Goku will only be in his 50s(?), how crotchety could he get?

The End of Z sells us a moment that Goku's been looking forward to for a long time. While the finale of Dragon Ball is largely a declaration of many untold adventures yet to come, it seems inevitable that the undying profitability of Dragon Ball will eventually provide us those adventures from the ("contributing") mind of Akira Toriyama. Can we really imagine Goku's drive being satisfied with training Oob?

By the end of the Moro arc, Goku has demonstrated a mastery of Migatte no Gokui. We don't know if he'll use it in arcs going forward, but even if he doesn't, the Super Years are the peak of Goku's fighting life leading up to his encounter with Oob.

Super shows us that it doesn't take long for you to get rusty. Goku always trains, but Goku will have chores to do, and not all training gets you way stronger. How weak could we expect him to be? How might he deal with a fall from Godliness, and how would he deal with his desire to get back into the action? How much will he be able to step back as a master? Despite his intentions, Goku doesn't have a good track record of leaving things up to the next generation.

Does Goku become more wacky like Kame-sen'nin, or more stern like Rao? How does his checkered history of training his sons impact his mentoring of Oob? When Dende tells Goku that he must train Oob someday, Goku appears hesitant. Viz has him saying "Why? That's not really my style."

Goku's training relationship with Gohan didn't exactly go smoothly. Goku struggles to relate to/empathize with Gohan, and he's excessively stern in the short time he has with Goten. Goku certainly cares for his sons, but he's not always the best at showing it (despite the fact that he will readily make the ultimate sacrifice). Oob is not Goku's biological son, but he might be inclinded to feel responsible for him. How would Goku's previous mentoring experience shape his mentorship with Oob? Gokus sons took everything in stride, so I'd expect Oob (or any shounen main character) to be able to overcome that sort of thing in the end.

These Dragon Ball Online artifacts tell us the way Toriyama envisioned Goku's fate. Even so, Super has shown us that nothing is sacred until Toriyama writes it in a memo for the main series.

Would Goku get himself killed, and could he end up permanently dead? Can Dragon Ball exist without Goku?
...

Anyway, I was blabbering on there in an attempt provide some things to consider. How do you envision a post-Super Goku from Toriyama's (and/or Toyotaro's) pen? Could Oob carry the show? Could Pan fill Toriyama's other favorite archetype?

[Kakkaroto735]

As fans, I'd like to hear your predictions for Goku's characterization in a hypothetical post-Super scenario. In this scenario, Goku and Oob are a duo - fairly equally in the spotlight - with their relationship on full display. A classic Toriyama story of unlikely friends.

As far as I see it, Toriyama's favorite three characters to write are the "odd pure youth", "cute girl attitude", and "disillusioned old man". We've seen Goku grow-up from that odd youth into something outside of those archetypes in the Boo arc (plus Super). As he ages, how do you think his personality might change? Could we ever get a full-on-old-man-territory Goku?

Goku absolutely never changes. Is that all there is to it?

We saw other artists take a stab at this hypothetical Goku with DBGT. Did they get it right? Even if they did, I don't think we should expect Goku reverting to his youth again.

As of the Boo arc, Goku's adventurous - yet poisonous - drive for battle shapes his actions. Does Goku get more or less poisonous as he ages? It's been an ebb and flow over the course of the series. As a youth, he killed without remorse...as any animal would. After training with God, he gained a new sense of morality. Once he became a father - resisting domestication - his untamed nature started seeping back in. Vegeta's not the only Saiyan to struggle with a peaceful life. While Saiyans stay young for a long time, and Goku will only be in his 50s(?), how crotchety could he get?

The End of Z sells us a moment that Goku's been looking forward to for a long time. While the finale of Dragon Ball is largely a declaration of many untold adventures yet to come, it seems inevitable that the undying profitability of Dragon Ball will eventually provide us those adventures from the ("contributing") mind of Akira Toriyama. Can we really imagine Goku's drive being satisfied with training Oob?

By the end of the Moro arc, Goku has demonstrated a mastery of Migatte no Gokui. We don't know if he'll use it in arcs going forward, but even if he doesn't, the Super Years are the peak of Goku's fighting life leading up to his encounter with Oob.

Super shows us that it doesn't take long for you to get rusty. Goku always trains, but Goku will have chores to do, and not all training gets you way stronger. How weak could we expect him to be? How might he deal with a fall from Godliness, and how would he deal with his desire to get back into the action? How much will he be able to step back as a master? Despite his intentions, Goku doesn't have a good track record of leaving things up to the next generation.

Does Goku become more wacky like Kame-sen'nin, or more stern like Rao? How does his checkered history of training his sons impact his mentoring of Oob? When Dende tells Goku that he must train Oob someday, Goku appears hesitant. Viz has him saying "Why? That's not really my style."

Goku's training relationship with Gohan didn't exactly go smoothly. Goku struggles to relate to/empathize with Gohan, and he's excessively stern in the short time he has with Goten. Goku certainly cares for his sons, but he's not always the best at showing it (despite the fact that he will readily make the ultimate sacrifice). Oob is not Goku's biological son, but he might be inclinded to feel responsible for him. How would Goku's previous mentoring experience shape his mentorship with Oob? Gokus sons took everything in stride, so I'd expect Oob (or any shounen main character) to be able to overcome that sort of thing in the end.

These Dragon Ball Online artifacts tell us the way Toriyama envisioned Goku's fate. Even so, Super has shown us that nothing is sacred until Toriyama writes it in a memo for the main series.

Would Goku get himself killed, and could he end up permanently dead? Can Dragon Ball exist without Goku?
...

Anyway, I was blabbering on there in an attempt provide some things to consider. How do you envision a post-Super Goku from Toriyama's (and/or Toyotaro's) pen? Could Oob carry the show? Could Pan fill Toriyama's other favorite archetype?

I think they could go two ways with it. Making Goku run the show post EoZ and still force him into the youth role by dumbing him down or he could make Goku the old man character, Ubb as the carefree youth and Goten, Trunks or even Gohan as another mentor/rival figure for him. Pan is pretty much destined to be written more like Bulma than in GT. GT made her a damsel but Bulma in the Pilaf arc was able to fight back to a degree. She had her weapons and vehicles and all that other stuff she used to keep herself and her companions safe. Pan will definitely be strong but Toriyama will either write her like Videl and then when she inevitably gets married (Toriyama has to make more Saiyan kids for a continuation) he will force her out of her Heroine role and make her a housewife, OR he can make her the Krillin to Oob's more Goku like character.

[precita]

I'd like to think Goku is training Oob for a future tournament, mainly the 4 Universes who didn't compete in the TOP because their mortal levels were the highest. Goku knows U7 needs more strong fighters, and with a few months of training by Super's logic...Oob would be as powerful as a Super Saiyan Blue like 17 and Freeza.

[Lionel]

DBGT's take on Goku as a season martial artist who, while still an exuberant easy-going martial artist, could put on a war face and conduct himself like someone with a head on his shoulders when the situation called for it. I wouldn't mind that approach but with the backdrop and atmosphere of EOZ and post-Super.

I would like to see the character roster expanded beyond just Goku and Uub. The latter became a symbol of untapped potential and disappointment in GT. Any potential follow up to EOZ or Super should try to incorporate a more hands-on, "trying to fill the shoes" Uub who is hoping to become a fighting confidant of Goku's seeking to protect the Earth as well. Having said that, you have other youth like Goten Trunks, Bra, and even Marron who could conceivably have some involvement. I'm surprised there aren't more people who haven't thought of Marron potentially becoming a fighter. She's the daughter of Krillin and #18. It can be assumed that she inherited the enhanced genetics of her mother -- genetics that were intended to turn an otherwise unremarkable delinquent into a world ending doomsday weapon.

[Mad Swami]

Have Goku prepare Uub while pushing himself to his limit and learn to be prepared for his final battle. He should be a mentor who is shaping Uub.

[Matches Malone]

DBGT's take on Goku as a season martial artist who, while still an exuberant easy-going martial artist, could put on a war face and conduct himself like someone with a head on his shoulders when the situation called for it. I wouldn't mind that approach but with the backdrop and atmosphere of EOZ and post-Super.

I doubt we'll get that, as it doesn't line up with the writers' idea of "funny".

[Mister_Popo]

Goku has always been kind-hearted: wanting to help people, defend his friends and the world, but everything had to serve his higher purpose as a martial artist in order to always become stronger. I think the last DBS chapter confirmed that yet again. Goku was excited by the idea of ​​fighting an even stronger Moro one day. A true hero will just destroy Moro right away.

Uub is not really Gokus 'Padwan'. And that is only logical. Goku is not a guide to training new Jedi or 'heroes' who will defend the world tomorrow from higher evil forces. Goku had always broken his limits fighting threats.
Although we now know what happened after Buu, there did not seem to be any immediate threats during EOZ. That may have been a snapshot, but it looked like it anyway. Goku saw enormous potential in Uub. He saw in him the only martial artist who could challenge him and take him to the next level again. Provided training. Just as various villains have done in the past. His ultimate goal was not to make Uub stronger, but especially himself.
That provides fodder for a follow-up story, but perhaps not the 'Next Gen' story that some would like.

Goku trained Gohan. And let him break his limits.
When Goku knew that the Earth was under Gohan's protection, Goku continued to train in Other World: to SSJ2, even evolved to SSJ3, at a time when there was "no threat." He has made unprecedented progress in an era of relative peace. I think that with Uub this would suddenly not change.

While some would like to see character development in Goku, or at least see him physically age, I fear this won't happen. Uub can be interesting fodder for rounding an arc and later 'keeping it close' as a side character. But I still think the focus will eventually return to Goku and Vegeta.
You can indeed turn Goku into a kind of older Jedi master, who realizes that he himself is getting older and wants to pass on his knowledge of martial arts to a new generation. But does that correspond to the archetype he has become, the one who always strives to push his own limits in order to remain the strongest. He is also too universally known to allow him to age in his basic physical form. It would make sense, but I doubt they will, because then they will 'not be able to go back' and an older Goku no longer matches the image known of him in various media.

In a way, Goku is Bugs Bunny or Mickey Mouse: a universal character.
That may be a little too short-sighted, but that is basically what it comes down to.
That's essentially what I think Toriyama meant by "Goku always stays the same."

What is possible and what I think they should do: pay more attention to the new generation of fighters: Caulifla, Kale, Broly, Uub ...
Goku will remain the main character, but that does not mean that there will be no arc or subarcs. which puts the 'new fighters' more in the spotlight, and they can perhaps get a little more 'character development'. The writers may dare to risk a little more with that. And that can of course also yield interesting interactions with the known cast, and in its own way signify an evolution.

[ChronoTwigger]

Student become the Master is a way to END a saga, not to produce any follow up.
It's used in literacy and narrative to resolve a premise: the rowdy and inividualistic hero finally found peace of mind and empathy, so he stop struggling and train people in such a way they doesn't follow his wrong steps.
Is the ending of a story and a character arc.

That's why EoZ (END of...) ended such way. It's was a way of ENDING a saga (as it totally deplete any tension left).

If you want to continue the story onward, you must create again some tension. So, for example, adding some extra condition that will reintroduce Goku personal challenge.
One thing could be a requisite imposed by Whis.
"Train a ningen up to level X and I'll tell you how to do technique Y".
So, more probably - and if they care a small small small small bit about - the thing will be slightly changed in his premise. And Goku will stay the same, doing the same thing again.

If someone of you will ever do a serious writing class/career (not writing fanfic or derivative out of "sheer passion"), you'll learn there's a set of mandatory writing rules to build on top, and everything is about playing around such rules. One of it is characters are just plot tools and THEY MUST BE plot tools to incite stories.
As long as Goku is a device to create new plots (and you can always come with new menaces >>> new powers to collect), there's no reason to change Goku at all.
And that's quite logical: why change Goku and create a different product, maybe upsetting the fanbase, when you can simply create a brand new franchise?

[batistabus]

I'd like to think Goku is training Oob for a future tournament, mainly the 4 Universes who didn't compete in the TOP because their mortal levels were the highest. Goku knows U7 needs more strong fighters, and with a few months of training by Super's logic...Oob would be as powerful as a Super Saiyan Blue like 17 and Freeza.

As a fan, I'd love to see more from the other 4 Universes, but I'm saddened thinking it's more likely we won't see that in the main continuity.

Oobs potential may surpass that of Goku's. He's not a Saiyan, so his biological catalyst for growth isn't on that level, but he's born with the powers of Majin Boo. Freeza never trained, and we saw what 4 months got him. Boo was much stronger than Freeza, and he never trained either (outside of Super anime filler). Despite being an earthling, and considering the inheritence of God ki from the Dai Kaioshin, Boo could feasibly surpass Goku. Whether or not he has a story that's as compelling, that's highly unlikely, but yet to be seen.

DBGT's take on Goku as a season martial artist who, while still an exuberant easy-going martial artist, could put on a war face and conduct himself like someone with a head on his shoulders when the situation called for it. I wouldn't mind that approach but with the backdrop and atmosphere of EOZ and post-Super.

Do you see this Goku as someone who has it all under control, or someone that still lets his toxic tendencies get the better of him from time to time?

I would like to see the character roster expanded beyond just Goku and Uub. The latter became a symbol of untapped potential and disappointment in GT. Any potential follow up to EOZ or Super should try to incorporate a more hands-on, "trying to fill the shoes" Uub who is hoping to become a fighting confidant of Goku's seeking to protect the Earth as well. Having said that, you have other youth like Goten Trunks, Bra, and even Marron who could conceivably have some involvement. I'm surprised there aren't more people who haven't thought of Marron potentially becoming a fighter. She's the daughter of Krillin and #18. It can be assumed that she inherited the enhanced genetics of her mother -- genetics that were intended to turn an otherwise unremarkable delinquent into a world ending doomsday weapon.

Hmm. So in your mind, Oob can and should should never live up to the hype - or at the very least - should have his struggle be at the center of the show? Oob doesn't know anything about Goku when they meet, but I think a section of a series devoted to Oob learning the history of Goku's accomplishment could work. It would serve as a recap, and I think a "new" series should seek to bring in new fans. In universe, it would show Oob the shoes he has to fill. +

On the other hand, an Oob completely obvlivious to Goku's accomplishments could provide an equally interesting dynamic.

That's a good question...would Maron inherit the qualities of an Artificial Human? The DBZ anime tended to portray these characters as mechanical. While their self-destruct mechanism and the obvious allusions to the Terminator series lend themselves to this interpretation, Super has suggested that their modification may even be on a cellular level. If this were the case, at least by Dragon Ball logic, their powers could be inherited.

While the Super bonus comics explain No.17's boost in strength as a result of the "domestication" of Cell Juniors, who knows how strong he could become if he had Goku's outlook on fighting?

Have Goku prepare Uub while pushing himself to his limit and learn to be prepared for his final battle. He should be a mentor who is shaping Uub.

Yes. By the time Goku actually encounters Oob, he's very excited to meet him. This dynamic would not be complete without a proper challenge for Goku.

I doubt we'll get that, as it doesn't line up with the writers' idea of "funny".

Making Goku a kid again was a pretty funny idea. I could accept Goku as someone wo was a lot more serious, but it would need to be entirely for Toriyama's pen. It just seems like such a huge shift that I would need the confidence and ability of the original artists to sell it to me.

A true hero will just destroy Moro right away.

Agreed.

Uub is not really Gokus 'Padwan'. And that is only logical. Goku is not a guide to training new Jedi or 'heroes' who will defend the world tomorrow from higher evil forces. Goku had always broken his limits fighting threats.
Although we now know what happened after Buu, there did not seem to be any immediate threats during EOZ. That may have been a snapshot, but it looked like it anyway. Goku saw enormous potential in Uub. He saw in him the only martial artist who could challenge him and take him to the next level again. Provided training. Just as various villains have done in the past. His ultimate goal was not to make Uub stronger, but especially himself.
That provides fodder for a follow-up story, but perhaps not the 'Next Gen' story that some would like.

I agree with this statement 100% if you are only interpreting the end of the series. But if the powers that be at Shueshia say the story must go on, I suspect they'll go for a more triumphant story.

Goku trained Gohan. And let him break his limits.
When Goku knew that the Earth was under Gohan's protection, Goku continued to train in Other World: to SSJ2, even evolved to SSJ3, at a time when there was "no threat." He has made unprecedented progress in an era of relative peace. I think that with Uub this would suddenly not change.

True, but Goku was dead at that time. He did not have mortal limitations on ki stamina, and he did not have to deal with a wife that expected him to provide.

While some would like to see character development in Goku, or at least see him physically age, I fear this won't happen. Uub can be interesting fodder for rounding an arc and later 'keeping it close' as a side character. But I still think the focus will eventually return to Goku and Vegeta.

That does seem to be the trend.

an older Goku no longer matches the image known of him in various media.

Very good point that I don't think should be understated. If Toriyama was fully invested in the series, perhaps this is something he would push for. At this point in his career, I don't think Toryiama cares enough about shaking up the status quoe, and one might imagine it more difficult to sell "Geezer Goku" figures from Bandai's perspective.

In a way, Goku is Bugs Bunny or Mickey Mouse: a universal character.
That may be a little too short-sighted, but that is basically what it comes down to.
That's essentially what I think Toriyama meant by "Goku always stays the same."

Yes! At Toriyama's highest aspiration, do you think he is Walt Disney or William Shakespeare? To me, he's clearly the former. I don't think all fans view it this way.

What is possible and what I think they should do: pay more attention to the new generation of fighters: Caulifla, Kale, Broly, Uub ...
Goku will remain the main character, but that does not mean that there will be no arc or subarcs. which puts the 'new fighters' more in the spotlight, and they can perhaps get a little more 'character development'. The writers may dare to risk a little more with that. And that can of course also yield interesting interactions with the known cast, and in its own way signify an evolution.

Broly is older than Goku, so I don't think he represents the next generation. I like the idea of Oob and the Universe 6 Saiyans interacting, but they'll be older by then, and I can't think of an organic reason they'd meet. Doesn't mean it's not possible...

Student become the Master is a way to END a saga, not to produce any follow up.
It's used in literacy and narrative to resolve a premise: the rowdy and inividualistic hero finally found peace of mind and empathy, so he stop struggling and train people in such a way they doesn't follow his wrong steps.
Is the ending of a story and a character arc.

That's why EoZ (END of...) ended such way. It's was a way of ENDING a saga (as it totally deplete any tension left).

If someone of you will ever do a serious writing class/career (not writing fanfic or derivative out of "sheer passion"), you'll learn there's a set of mandatory writing rules to build on top, and everything is about playing around such rules. One of it is characters are just plot tools and THEY MUST BE plot tools to incite stories.
As long as Goku is a device to create new plots (and you can always come with new menaces >>> new powers to collect), there's no reason to change Goku at all.
And that's quite logical: why change Goku and create a different product, maybe upsetting the fanbase, when you can simply create a brand new franchise?

I appreciate your commitment to good literature. I agree with a lot of what you say.

If you want to continue the story onward, you must create again some tension. So, for example, adding some extra condition that will reintroduce Goku personal challenge.
One thing could be a requisite imposed by Whis.
"Train a ningen up to level X and I'll tell you how to do technique Y".
So, more probably - and if they care a small small small small bit about - the thing will be slightly changed in his premise. And Goku will stay the same, doing the same thing again.

What incentive might Whis have in encouraging Goku to train Oob? Perhaps he might make for another rival for Beerus, or perhaps this Godly descendant might make him a suitable candidate for God of Destruction someday.

[batistabus]

Also, if anyone is a lurker, but has something to say about Goku, I'd love to hear it! I lurked for years before I made an account, and while finding your voice online can be difficult, I've really enjoyed being a member of Kanzenshuu. As fans, it seems like we disagree on the state of our main character more than we should, so help us sort it out!

[prince212]

I can’t imagine dragon ball without goku aiming to be the strongest , so I can take the oob training and battle team up together, just for goku intention of become better at martial arts , not with a real goal of “this will be my substitute in a short term “.
Oob leading the series with goku aside will require many many arcs of building up his character and also himself having his own friends and new cast .
Obviously oob is gonna happen , he was already mentioned and showed in super ,we will see how , I’m ok if it’s in a different way like was at eoz.
I think that they lost an opportunity to separate super from Original DB ,During future trunks arc at super , when goku , Beerus were killed by zamasu (offscreen in the manga ), somehow put eoz in that timeline , goku being revived and Beerus-whis out for good , making goku being bored , not knowing all things that happened after that arc and improvements on himself etc . That connects more with the oob excitement at the tournament ..... right at this point of super is kinda off unless is proved that goku reached his limits , but that’s against this series policy

[Mister_Popo]

Broly is older than Goku, so I don't think he represents the next generation. I like the idea of Oob and the Universe 6 Saiyans interacting, but they'll be older by then, and I can't think of an organic reason they'd meet. Doesn't mean it's not possible...

True, maybe i should have said 'new introduced fighters' in stead of 'new generation'.
I just meant, there are still other guys next to Uub, who can team up with the main cast and add some extra color to the Goku- and Vegeta-show, that probably isn't about to end anytime soon. Goku's character may not change, but it's always intresting to see him interact, train and team up with someone else than Vegeta.
The only problem is, if you see how strong Goku has become with MUI, who else of the non-divine realm can truely stand beside him in order to be of any relevance in a fight?

Uub obviously has a lot of potential, but if they don't make a timeksip it might still take a while till we reach EOZ.
If you saw what Broly was capable of without any descent martial arts training, and if you see how popular the character is, it would be a waste to never use him against him in further battles.
Broly will return at a given point, i'm almost certain.

The Pride Troopers and U6-girls could also be called in one breath with those guys.
Kefla and Jiren were able to push Goku to UI, technically they aren't fodder against bigger threats.

All those fighters don't necessarily have to come together in the same arc, although against one huge multiversal threat it would make sense.

I think it's a good thing, that there still are guys with really strong potential next to the main cast.
For the sake of diversity.
Because it does not seem like Gohan, Piccolo ... (not to mention the 'forever young ones Goten and Trunks') are making any progress in really catching Goku or Vegeta. They have become stone statues that do no longer seem to move in the glare of Goku's power.
It hurts to see that happen with those great characters, but that's where we are up to for the moment.
They can always be written back into relevance, but why isn't it done yet?
This in contrast to an "untrained" Broly, who in his LSSJ-form fought with a divine Gogeta and already seemed a lot stronger than "full power Gohan".

[Kagari]

Broly is older than Goku, so I don't think he represents the next generation. I like the idea of Oob and the Universe 6 Saiyans interacting, but they'll be older by then, and I can't think of an organic reason they'd meet. Doesn't mean it's not possible...

True, maybe i should have said 'new introduced fighters' in stead of 'new generation'.
I just meant, there are still other guys next to Uub, who can team up with the main cast and add some extra color to the Goku- and Vegeta-show, that probably isn't about to end anytime soon. Goku's character may not change, but it's always intresting to see him interact, train and team up with someone else than Vegeta.
The only problem is, if you see how strong Goku has become with MUI, who else of the non-divine realm can truely stand beside him in order to be of any relevance in a fight?

Uub obviously has a lot of potential, but if they don't make a timeksip it might still take a while till we reach EOZ.
If you saw what Broly was capable of without any descent martial arts training, and if you see how popular the character is, it would be a waste to never use him against him in further battles.
Broly will return at a given point, i'm almost certain.

The Pride Troopers and U6-girls could also be called in one breath with those guys.
Kefla and Jiren were able to push Goku to UI, technically they aren't fodder against bigger threats.

All those fighters don't necessarily have to come together in the same arc, although against one huge multiversal threat it would make sense.

I think it's a good thing, that there still are guys with really strong potential next to the main cast.
For the sake of diversity.
Because it does not seem like Gohan, Piccolo ... (not to mention the 'forever young ones Goten and Trunks') are making any progress in really catching Goku or Vegeta. They have become stone statues that do no longer seem to move in the glare of Goku's power.
It hurts to see that happen with those great characters, but that's where we are up to for the moment.
They can always be written back into relevance, but why isn't it done yet?
This in contrast to an "untrained" Broly, who in his LSSJ-form fought with a divine Gogeta and already seemed a lot stronger than "full power Gohan".

17 and Gohan were brought up to the god tiers in the previous arc. The writers can easily buff these characters again if they so choose. Additionally, they could bring the focus back on characters doing things that don't necessarily require them to be the strongest. After all, it was 17 who won the ToP and he isn't able to push UI Goku or anything like that.

Toriyama and Toyotarou love using the original cast so I don't see them going away. Their staying power transcends decades at this point.

[Mister_Popo]

Broly is older than Goku, so I don't think he represents the next generation. I like the idea of Oob and the Universe 6 Saiyans interacting, but they'll be older by then, and I can't think of an organic reason they'd meet. Doesn't mean it's not possible...

True, maybe i should have said 'new introduced fighters' in stead of 'new generation'.
I just meant, there are still other guys next to Uub, who can team up with the main cast and add some extra color to the Goku- and Vegeta-show, that probably isn't about to end anytime soon. Goku's character may not change, but it's always intresting to see him interact, train and team up with someone else than Vegeta.
The only problem is, if you see how strong Goku has become with MUI, who else of the non-divine realm can truely stand beside him in order to be of any relevance in a fight?

Uub obviously has a lot of potential, but if they don't make a timeksip it might still take a while till we reach EOZ.
If you saw what Broly was capable of without any descent martial arts training, and if you see how popular the character is, it would be a waste to never use him against him in further battles.
Broly will return at a given point, i'm almost certain.

The Pride Troopers and U6-girls could also be called in one breath with those guys.
Kefla and Jiren were able to push Goku to UI, technically they aren't fodder against bigger threats.

All those fighters don't necessarily have to come together in the same arc, although against one huge multiversal threat it would make sense.

I think it's a good thing, that there still are guys with really strong potential next to the main cast.
For the sake of diversity.
Because it does not seem like Gohan, Piccolo ... (not to mention the 'forever young ones Goten and Trunks') are making any progress in really catching Goku or Vegeta. They have become stone statues that do no longer seem to move in the glare of Goku's power.
It hurts to see that happen with those great characters, but that's where we are up to for the moment.
They can always be written back into relevance, but why isn't it done yet?
This in contrast to an "untrained" Broly, who in his LSSJ-form fought with a divine Gogeta and already seemed a lot stronger than "full power Gohan".

17 and Gohan were brought up to the god tiers in the previous arc. The writers can easily buff these characters again if they so choose. Additionally, they could bring the focus back on characters doing things that don't necessarily require them to be the strongest. After all, it was 17 who won the ToP and he isn't able to push UI Goku or anything like that.

Toriyama and Toyotarou love using the original cast so I don't see them going away. Their staying power transcends decades at this point.

I don't expect for the main characters to go away.
Manga Gohan seems way stronger than anime Gohan during TOP, but they are both still miles behind MUI.

Gohan and 17 have made significant progress. True. Even Piccolo since Super started.
But where exactly are they in comparison to Goku and Vegeta as we speak?
The gap is absolutely huge, and although they are known to be popular, they still aren't restored even close to the relevance they had back in DBZ. And we musn't forget: Goku and Vegeta will also keep on becoming stronger.

Theoretically those characters can be written in another 'intresting' way than just being stronger.
But when you look at the reality of DB's relevance: a lot is about fighting, and as a result we see the most of the strongest characters.
And they interact with each other. Villain versus Goku, Vegeta ...
Gohan, the Androids and 17 had a fairly low contribution to the Moro arc, just because they were only spectators.

But how the cards are shaken right now, it seems there are other characters introduced during Super who, at the moment, have shown a pretty big potential.
I hope the writers use those too. Because we already know how a fight with Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo and/or the Androids against a central antagonist looks like. And how it probably would unfold for the time being.

[Kagari]

True, maybe i should have said 'new introduced fighters' in stead of 'new generation'.
I just meant, there are still other guys next to Uub, who can team up with the main cast and add some extra color to the Goku- and Vegeta-show, that probably isn't about to end anytime soon. Goku's character may not change, but it's always intresting to see him interact, train and team up with someone else than Vegeta.
The only problem is, if you see how strong Goku has become with MUI, who else of the non-divine realm can truely stand beside him in order to be of any relevance in a fight?

Uub obviously has a lot of potential, but if they don't make a timeksip it might still take a while till we reach EOZ.
If you saw what Broly was capable of without any descent martial arts training, and if you see how popular the character is, it would be a waste to never use him against him in further battles.
Broly will return at a given point, i'm almost certain.

The Pride Troopers and U6-girls could also be called in one breath with those guys.
Kefla and Jiren were able to push Goku to UI, technically they aren't fodder against bigger threats.

All those fighters don't necessarily have to come together in the same arc, although against one huge multiversal threat it would make sense.

I think it's a good thing, that there still are guys with really strong potential next to the main cast.
For the sake of diversity.
Because it does not seem like Gohan, Piccolo ... (not to mention the 'forever young ones Goten and Trunks') are making any progress in really catching Goku or Vegeta. They have become stone statues that do no longer seem to move in the glare of Goku's power.
It hurts to see that happen with those great characters, but that's where we are up to for the moment.
They can always be written back into relevance, but why isn't it done yet?
This in contrast to an "untrained" Broly, who in his LSSJ-form fought with a divine Gogeta and already seemed a lot stronger than "full power Gohan".

17 and Gohan were brought up to the god tiers in the previous arc. The writers can easily buff these characters again if they so choose. Additionally, they could bring the focus back on characters doing things that don't necessarily require them to be the strongest. After all, it was 17 who won the ToP and he isn't able to push UI Goku or anything like that.

Toriyama and Toyotarou love using the original cast so I don't see them going away. Their staying power transcends decades at this point.

I don't expect for the main characters to go away.
Manga Gohan seems way stronger than anime Gohan during TOP, but they are both still miles behind MUI.

Gohan and 17 have made significant progress. True. Even Piccolo since Super started.
But where exactly are they in comparison to Goku and Vegeta as we speak?
The gap is absolutely huge, and although they are known to be popular, they still aren't restored even close to the relevance they had back in DBZ. And we musn't forget: Goku and Vegeta will also keep on becoming stronger.

Theoretically those characters can be written in another 'intresting' way than just being stronger.
But when you look at the reality of DB's relevance: a lot is about fighting, and as a result we see the most of the strongest characters.
And they interact with each other. Villain versus Goku, Vegeta ...
Gohan, the Androids and 17 had a fairly low contribution to the Moro arc, just because they were only spectators.

But how the cards are shaken right now, it seems there are other characters introduced during Super who, at the moment, have shown a pretty big potential.
I hope the writers use those too. Because we already know how a fight with Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo and/or the Androids against a central antagonist looks like. And how it probably would unfold for the time being.

Vegeta is very much behind UI as well. He's still in some realm of Super Saiyan Blue, which is actually the same as Gohan. We don't know how he stacks up against Gohan (and 17) right now because they've not done anything that can be compared with each other directly yet. Given Gohan's Ultimate form can get stronger and stronger too, there's plenty of room for the writers to have him on whatever level Vegeta is regardless. They've created the perfect tool for him to stay relevant that way.

17 had a low contribution to the Moro arc sure, but Gohan had a lot of focus and some of the more interesting fights IMO. In particular his chapters vs 73 and then later with teaming up with Goku and Piccolo vs Moro were highlights. He hasn't just been a spectator all things considered.

Other characters introduced during Super have their own universes to be in so I don't see them doing much outside of video games. Their contribution was solved during the ToP by design.

[The Undying]

I don't know if this will be a satisfying answer for the topic, but personally, the more I think about a hypothetical story concerning Goku and Oob, the less I actually want it.

The original manga's epilogue befits a cast that largely does good things by consequence instead of doing those things for the sake of it, all perfectly embodied in its main character leaving everyone behind to train some guy he just met because he's bored and excited to keep fighting strong opponents; only this time, that opponent is an ally rather than a foe.

GT's ending is good for what Toei does and what Toriyama probably doesn't, but it's an ending that looks backwards and feels like a grand conclusion of DB as a plot. EoZ, in contrast, looks forward and feels like a more suitable conclusion of DB as a story. On paper, I think Toriyama and co. made the right choice to put the modern content squarely in that period of time between the Boo arc and the series' final chapters.

[Psajdak]

There is one problem with Uub - he isn't Saiyan.

I would rather see more of Broly (as well as Lemo, and Cheelai, of course, they are great), and/or canon version of teen Pan.

[Mister_Popo]

I don't know if this will be a satisfying answer for the topic, but personally, the more I think about a hypothetical story concerning Goku and Oob, the less I actually want it.

The original manga's epilogue befits a cast that largely does good things by consequence instead of doing those things for the sake of it, all perfectly embodied in its main character leaving everyone behind to train some guy he just met because he's bored and excited to keep fighting strong opponents; only this time, that opponent is an ally rather than a foe.

GT's ending is good for what Toei does and what Toriyama probably doesn't, but it's an ending that looks backwards and feels like a grand conclusion of DB as a plot. EoZ, in contrast, looks forward and feels like a more suitable conclusion of DB as a story. On paper, I think Toriyama and co. made the right choice to put the modern content squarely in that period of time between the Boo arc and the series' final chapters.

I personally love the EOZ how it is.
I could have lived that it would have stayed how it always was.
I do think Toriyama had written an ending in which more fans could find itself.
The ending, of coure, is completely open.

Goku can:
- become a master and teacher of Uub
- use Uub as a way to become stronger
- use Uub as a valible partner to fight a new threat
- ...

Of course no ending, no matter for who it might be, is ever completely good.
I personally thought it's strength lied in the fact more people could find in it somehow, with certain imagination.

I just went on on the note that Batistabus posted.
What IF Super went past Uub, which it obviously will, as Toyotaro had already posted this.
If the story of Goku, which DB is, indeed goes past Uub, which we all might expect, why would Goku suddenly be alright with the status of teacher alone?

I mean, only IF the story goes on in our imagination, ONLY if the story has ended it could make sense Goku would become the teacher that gives way to a 'New Hope'. Not in reality in what we read at the moment.