Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[TobyS]

Someone didn't watch 110 then.

I did.. Couldn’t find it.. Perhaps you need to watch it again.

Toyo can dick around the powers however he likes, but the anime makes it pretty clear: Jiren eats Hakaishin for breakfast and that's before even going full power and breaking his limits.

Toyo is under no obligation to follow the bullshit Toei spews out.

Also even then that could be a Statement made to the best of belmods knowledge. Perhaps Beerus is hiding more power then belmo knows about.

Also it could be another monaka situation where they are deliberatly lying to Goku about how strong Beerus is.

[Dragon Wukong]

Toyo can dick around the powers however he likes, but the anime makes it pretty clear: Jiren eats Hakaishin for breakfast and that's before even going full power and breaking his limits.

Anime-only content has zero relevance. It's a completely different continuity. It's not "dicking around the powers" for a different writer of a different continuity to make a different decision.

[GodVegetto91]

Hasn't it already been confirmed that Black arc Vegito = Beerus?

Fans really need to stop making Beerus into a moving goalposts. NOWHERE was it ever stated nor implied that Beerus > every mortal fighter when the opposite has been stated and shown numerous times. Walking Beerus does nothing to aid the story and it just contributes to Super's stagnant nature.

You do realize that means that Vegito Blue is simply stronger than MUI Goku then right???!

Broly >>>> Jiren (well known fact).

Broly = Beerus (stated in the movie).

(Future Trunks Arc) SSB Vegito = Beerus aswell.

The truth is, only Fusion level characters have been compared to Beerus.

Broly was fighting on par with a POST tournament of power Gogeta in Blue form!

Remember that said BASE Gogeta was already stronger than SSJ Blue Goku/Vegeta based on feats (he was CASUALLY dodging all of SSJ Broly’s ki blasts!)

Same with Base Vegito from the Black Arc.. He also had much better feats than SSJ Blue Goku, hell even better feats than PERFECTED SSJ Blue Goku! (Since he easily evaporated Merged Zamasu’s arm with a mere ki blast), while later, Perfected SSJ Blue Goku requiered a FULL POWER Hakai in order to be able to do the same..!

Do you really think that the strength difference between UI Goku and SSJ Blue Goku is BIGGER than the strength difference between SSJ Blue Goku and BASE Goku???!

SSB Fusion > SSG Fusion > SS3 Fusion > SS2 Fusion > SS1 Fusion > Base Fusion > Goku/Vegeta’s MAX power.

That’s 6 levels above SSB Goku..

Now take a look at UI.

UI > UI Sign > SSBE > Perfected SSJ Blue.

That’s only 3 levels higher!

There’s no way that a simple technique (UI) can possibly make Goku stronger than a SSJ Blue Vegito!

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

If it takes SSB Fusion to match up to or surpass the level of God of Destruction, and the completed Ultra Instinct can match up to or surpass the level of God of Destruction, then the 2 are at the very minimum competitive with one another.

This is supported by other DB media placing the 2 on a similar level, especially the DBH part of the franchise.

[ankokudaishogun]

Broly >>>> Jiren (well known fact).

not a fact.

[Jinto]

Lol ! Destroy a galaxy
Wasn't that surpassed like the 13 first episode in the anime and with Fused Zamasu in the manga ?
Need I remind you that Moro have angel power in him. Even a little bit can one shot a universal GoD.

It's clear now that Toyo just stall so nobody gets past Beerus yet can't bother himself to write that in a coherent way

Beerus actually training to not be surpassed by Goku and co would be better than superficially keeping everything under GoD level.

[FishermanJohnWest]

Recent spoilers shows he is aware of Merus and his strength. It's highly likely he ain't talking about power now

How is Moro tougher than Merus?

Tougher to deal with in

[GodVegetto91]

Broly >>>> Jiren (well known fact).

not a fact.

Yes it is. You’re just in denial.

[shadd21]

I said it before, but I'll say it again: we need a concrete statement or feat that clearly and obviously makes clear where Beerus stands compared to all of these latest opponents.

The "maybes" and "perhaps" and general non-committal stuff is getting old. I just want the writers/authors/creators to come out and lay it out, plain as day.

Right now, people can make the argument for either side of the debate, and they'd be equally right albeit the pro-Beerus side tends to get a little less objective and use more rhetoric by comparison.

It honestly feels like Beerus has become what the original Broly used to be, with how fans highballing him to hell and back.

[SupremeKai25]

I don't understand why some people here claim Beerus is stronger than Moro simply because he thinks he could take care of him.

As I already said, Frost was also confident he could take on Vegeta. Zamasu was confident he could take on Goku, Beerus, and Whis. Vegeta was confident he could take on Perfect Cell. There are countless other examples like these.

It doesn't mean ANYTHING. Beerus being confident he could take on Moro doesn't mean he's stronger, it means he THINKS he's stronger. There's an obvious nuance that some people here are completely ignoring.

I can guarantee you that Toyotaro and Toriyama intended it to be super ambiguous. This chapter is not confirmation that Beerus > Moro and MUI Goku. This chapter keeps the ambiguity. Unsubstantiated claims based on confidence are not facts.

[Koitsukai]

People actually thought this chapter proved Beerus > the rest?

He clearly CAN'T finish Moro in a heartbeat, if that were the case he'd have done it before going to see the GP. The previous chapter was already pretty clear about how UI and Moro compare to Broly, Jiren, Zamasu

There's a reason why we should wait until the chapter is released. To prevent us for jumping to conclusions based on nothing.

[GodVegetto91]

Vegeta’s own ki IN COMBINATION with all the others, only formed a really small ball that could only bring Goku to SSJ Blue from Base!

Goku was not impressed by it. Didn’t even call it “divine”.. Even though Vegeta has God ki with SSBE..

Then Goku got reverted back again to BASE! Being drained and squeezed by Moro!

Then comes the energy from Uub and Uub ALONE!

The ball was MUCH bigger than Vegeta’s one, even WITH the energy of all the others!

And Goku actually was IMPRESSED!

Called it DIVINE POWER!

”God Power”...

He didn’t say that about Vegeta’s SSBE ki!

Vegeta even called Uub’s energy alone: .....A ridiculous amount! But how??!

This energy of Uub was enough to make Goku go Ultra Instinct all the way back from BASE!

Uub >>>>> Vegeta confirmed.

As much as it doesn’t make sense!

I guess the gap between MUI Goku and Spirit Control SSBE Vegeta is MUCH BIGGER THAN I THOUGHT!

Since UI Goku >>>>>> Uub.

But Uub >>>>>> Vegeta.

Wow! That’s insane!

This impresses even ME! And I am NOT easily impressed these days!

[TobyS]

Vegeta’s own ki IN COMBINATION with all the others, only formed a really small ball that could only bring Goku to SSJ Blue from Base!

Goku was not impressed by it. Didn’t even call it “divine”.. Even though Vegeta has God ki with SSBE..

Then Goku got reverted back again to BASE! Being drained and squeezed by Moro!

Then comes the energy from Uub and Uub ALONE!

The ball was MUCH bigger than Vegeta’s one, even WITH the energy of all the others!

And Goku actually was IMPRESSED!

Called it DIVINE POWER!

”God Power”...

He didn’t say that about Vegeta’s SSBE ki!

Vegeta even called Uub’s energy alone: .....A ridiculous amount! But how??!

This energy of Uub was enough to make Goku go Ultra Instinct all the way back from BASE!

Uub >>>>> Vegeta confirmed.

As much as it doesn’t make sense!

I guess the gap between MUI Goku and Spirit Control SSBE Vegeta is MUCH BIGGER THAN I THOUGHT!

Since UI Goku >>>>>> Uub.

But Uub >>>>>> Vegeta.

Wow! That’s insane!

This impresses even ME! And I am NOT easily impressed these days!

Isn't Vegeta tired from doing Fission on moro, he says he's being drained faster then he's draining moro?

And I'm pretty sure it came from Uub and the Grand Kaioshin together.

Either way I do think Uub certainly has at least more potential than Vegeta, but I'm not sure this is a fair test.

[ekrolo2]

People actually thought this chapter proved Beerus > the rest?

He clearly CAN'T finish Moro in a heartbeat, if that were the case he'd have done it before going to see the GP. The previous chapter was already pretty clear about how UI and Moro compare to Broly, Jiren, Zamasu

There's a reason why we should wait until the chapter is released. To prevent us for jumping to conclusions based on nothing.

Beerus' role amounts to nothing special for power scaling. All he says is he'll lend a hand for a change before him and Whis are called to GPs.

[GodVegetto91]

Vegeta’s own ki IN COMBINATION with all the others, only formed a really small ball that could only bring Goku to SSJ Blue from Base!

Goku was not impressed by it. Didn’t even call it “divine”.. Even though Vegeta has God ki with SSBE..

Then Goku got reverted back again to BASE! Being drained and squeezed by Moro!

Then comes the energy from Uub and Uub ALONE!

The ball was MUCH bigger than Vegeta’s one, even WITH the energy of all the others!

And Goku actually was IMPRESSED!

Called it DIVINE POWER!

”God Power”...

He didn’t say that about Vegeta’s SSBE ki!

Vegeta even called Uub’s energy alone: .....A ridiculous amount! But how??!

This energy of Uub was enough to make Goku go Ultra Instinct all the way back from BASE!

Uub >>>>> Vegeta confirmed.

As much as it doesn’t make sense!

I guess the gap between MUI Goku and Spirit Control SSBE Vegeta is MUCH BIGGER THAN I THOUGHT!

Since UI Goku >>>>>> Uub.

But Uub >>>>>> Vegeta.

Wow! That’s insane!

This impresses even ME! And I am NOT easily impressed these days!

Isn't Vegeta tired from doing Fission on moro, he says he's being drained faster then he's draining moro?

And I'm pretty sure it came from Uub and the Grand Kaioshin together.

Either way I do think Uub certainly has at least more potential than Vegeta, but I'm not sure this is a fair test.

That’s not what’s implied in this chapter at all dude. Clearly it was just from Uub, we only saw him holding his hand up with the Dai Kaioshin assisting him.

Heck even Dende CONFIRMED it that it came from just Uub.

Uub >>>>> Vegeta confirmed. No matter how you look at it.

[Brettjr25]

Spoiler:

Vegeta’s own ki IN COMBINATION with all the others, only formed a really small ball that could only bring Goku to SSJ Blue from Base!

Goku was not impressed by it. Didn’t even call it “divine”.. Even though Vegeta has God ki with SSBE..

Then Goku got reverted back again to BASE! Being drained and squeezed by Moro!

Then comes the energy from Uub and Uub ALONE!

The ball was MUCH bigger than Vegeta’s one, even WITH the energy of all the others!

And Goku actually was IMPRESSED!

Called it DIVINE POWER!

”God Power”...

He didn’t say that about Vegeta’s SSBE ki!

Vegeta even called Uub’s energy alone: .....A ridiculous amount! But how??!

This energy of Uub was enough to make Goku go Ultra Instinct all the way back from BASE!

Uub >>>>> Vegeta confirmed.

As much as it doesn’t make sense!

I guess the gap between MUI Goku and Spirit Control SSBE Vegeta is MUCH BIGGER THAN I THOUGHT!

Since UI Goku >>>>>> Uub.

But Uub >>>>>> Vegeta.

Wow! That’s insane!

This impresses even ME! And I am NOT easily impressed these days!

Isn't Vegeta tired from doing Fission on moro, he says he's being drained faster then he's draining moro?

And I'm pretty sure it came from Uub and the Grand Kaioshin together.

Either way I do think Uub certainly has at least more potential than Vegeta, but I'm not sure this is a fair test.

That’s not what’s implied in this chapter at all dude. Clearly it was just from Uub, we only saw him holding his hand up with the Dai Kaioshin assisting him.

Heck even Dende CONFIRMED it that it came from just Uub.

Uub >>>>> Vegeta confirmed. No matter how you look at it.

Well, I think you mean his potential is greater than Vegeta which was already confirmed with EoZ basically.

[Koitsukai]

People actually thought this chapter proved Beerus > the rest?

He clearly CAN'T finish Moro in a heartbeat, if that were the case he'd have done it before going to see the GP. The previous chapter was already pretty clear about how UI and Moro compare to Broly, Jiren, Zamasu

There's a reason why we should wait until the chapter is released. To prevent us for jumping to conclusions based on nothing.

Beerus' role amounts to nothing special for power scaling. All he says is he'll lend a hand for a change before him and Whis are called to GPs.

Yeah, he says he'll do what Vegeta ended up doing (help). He probably knew the crystal was the key to it, something absolutely unrelated to power levels. He proved to be "smarter" and/or more experienced, and that's about it.

People really want Beerus to be something he's been implied several times not to be.

[Devilman21/]

I have a question about Dai-Kaioshin's god power. I was under the impression that when Majin Boo split into the good and evil versions of himself, most, but not all, of the god power went to evil Boo. As a result Dai-Kaioshin was only able to partially access his god power and it was only by combining his power with Oob that he was able to donate his full divine energy.

Upon a second reading however, This chapter seemed to imply that most if not all of DaiKaioshin's divine power was transferred to evil/kid Boo which was Oob then inherited. I went back to check and in chapter 49 Merus states that he incorrectly believed that Fat Boo inherited the god power because he shared the Dai-Kaioshin's appearance but that maybe that power went to evil Boo instead.

How then do we explain Boo's extreme power boost and Dai-Kaioshin's performance against Moro w/ his magic restored? Old Moro was capable of holding his own against Super Saiyan God Vegeta & forced him into blue, and Dai-Kaioshin managed to exchange blows with FP Moro. Are we to believe that was just Dai-Kaioshin's power without god ki? That seems inconsistent with the Boo arc where he lost to kid-Buff Boo who should be way weaker than even base Goku at this point. Maybe I am just missing something but I would appreciate to hear your guy's thoughts on this.

[GodVegetto91]

Spoiler:

Isn't Vegeta tired from doing Fission on moro, he says he's being drained faster then he's draining moro?

And I'm pretty sure it came from Uub and the Grand Kaioshin together.

Either way I do think Uub certainly has at least more potential than Vegeta, but I'm not sure this is a fair test.

That’s not what’s implied in this chapter at all dude. Clearly it was just from Uub, we only saw him holding his hand up with the Dai Kaioshin assisting him.

Heck even Dende CONFIRMED it that it came from just Uub.

Uub >>>>> Vegeta confirmed. No matter how you look at it.

Well, I think you mean his potential is greater than Vegeta which was already confirmed with EoZ basically.

No.. His actual STRENGTH.. I thought I was clear in that..

[GodVegetto91]

Proof that it was only Uub, and not Uub + Dai Kaioshin who donated his energy..