What If Cell never gain his perfect form?

[nitwit]

Homies I have an interesting idea for a future video that should get MasakoX interested in if he wants to. What If? Cell never gain his perfect form. Not even his Semi-Perfect form. Cell still absorbs 17 & 18 but never transform. Just basically gets stronger as even Toriyama once said Imperfect Cell was one of the best scary forms he has ever done. (Spot drawings aside.) You can do so many things with a powerful Imperfect Cell as he is crazy and can make Gohan fight for his life. It could work as an interesting idea to see. What do you guys think?

[PurestEvil]

Homies I have an interesting idea for a future video that should get MasakoX interested in if he wants to. What If? Cell never gain his perfect form. Not even his Semi-Perfect form. Cell still absorbs 17 & 18 but never transform. Just basically gets stronger as even Toriyama once said Imperfect Cell was one of the best scary forms he has ever done. (Spot drawings aside.) You can do so many things with a powerful Imperfect Cell as he is crazy and can make Gohan fight for his life. It could work as an interesting idea to see. What do you guys think?

What exactly are you suggesting? "What if Toriyama wrote Cell only as his first form"?
If that's the case, then it would actually be pretty cool. Cell would keep his absorption powers, making him more of a terrifying monster than a villainous amalgam of martial artists, although I am not sure if I would enjoy him better than Perfect Cell...

[nitwit]

Homies I have an interesting idea for a future video that should get MasakoX interested in if he wants to. What If? Cell never gain his perfect form. Not even his Semi-Perfect form. Cell still absorbs 17 & 18 but never transform. Just basically gets stronger as even Toriyama once said Imperfect Cell was one of the best scary forms he has ever done. (Spot drawings aside.) You can do so many things with a powerful Imperfect Cell as he is crazy and can make Gohan fight for his life. It could work as an interesting idea to see. What do you guys think?

What exactly are you suggesting? "What if Toriyama wrote Cell only as his first form"?
If that's the case, then it would actually be pretty cool. Cell would keep his absorption powers, making him more of a terrifying monster than a villainous amalgam of martial artists, although I am not sure if I would enjoy him better than Perfect Cell...

Yeah, that's the idea! Like what if Toriyama kept the idea of Cell in his imperfect form before his editor forced the changes cause I can still see Cell absorbed 17 & 18 just with a boost powerup rather than a transformation. Make it so it's more on his scary monster side of things and have it where Gohan had to be fearful of Cell when they still do the tournament fight arc.

[Melee_Sovereign]

What you describe is what they should've done with Moro.

[nitwit]

What you describe is what they should've done with Moro.

I agree. Moro got poopcanned!

[PurestEvil]

What you describe is what they should've done with Moro.

Isn't Moro just Cell that looks like a goat?

[TobyS]

I never really got why, despite the absorptions being no longer needed, why he'd lose his prehensile tail, an extra limb is a huge advantage in a fight.

GT and fan works like multiverse have him extend the tail when needed, but in the canon, I think we only see him use it again when he reverts to middle cell, possibly only in the anime at that.

Strange.

[Jord]

I never really got why, despite the absorptions being no longer needed, why he'd lose his prehensile tail, an extra limb is a huge advantage in a fight.

GT and fan works like multiverse have him extend the tail when needed, but in the canon, I think we only see him use it again when he reverts to middle cell, possibly only in the anime at that.

Strange.

I agree Toby, in practice it would actually be a logical way to boost Cell's strength. Just let him absorb strong fighters. It's more believable than the "Frieza goes training" excuse they pulled. Wouldn't surprise me if we saw Cell again either since Super mostly runs on nostalgia.

I also like Cell's first form, although his orange penis is very distracting.

[TobyS]

I never really got why, despite the absorptions being no longer needed, why he'd lose his prehensile tail, an extra limb is a huge advantage in a fight.

GT and fan works like multiverse have him extend the tail when needed, but in the canon, I think we only see him use it again when he reverts to middle cell, possibly only in the anime at that.

Strange.

I agree Toby, in practice it would actually be a logical way to boost Cell's strength. Just let him absorb strong fighters. It's more believable than the "Frieza goes training" excuse they pulled. Wouldn't surprise me if we saw Cell again either since Super mostly runs on nostalgia.

I also like Cell's first form, although his orange penis is very distracting.

Haha I always saw it as an orange speedo stopping you from seeing his dick.
I meant the tail just being lost as a weapon, I can see the absorption tapering off in usefulness, he seemed to be getting not just their addition of battle power, humans are quite weak compared to Kamiccolo, yet he got strong, I can see how that route would max out, like zenkais.

Though I do wonder if he could absorb that way in his second form, if he wanted to.

[PurestEvil]

I also like Cell's first form, although his orange penis is very distracting.

I always thought it looked like he put a biker's knee guard on his crotch

[Melee_Sovereign]

What you describe is what they should've done with Moro.

Isn't Moro just Cell that looks like a goat?

Not really. To me, he's more like a smart Buu as his transformations are not predetermined like Cell, nor are the people he absorbs. Cell can't get a new form just by absorbing anyone. He specifically has to absorb 17 and 18 to become Perfect. Moro, on the other hand, spontaneously got a new form by absorbing a random character. That makes him more like Buu, as Buu can get a new form by absorbing anyone.

Another thing that's interesting about Moro is that he doesn't just absorb lifeforms to get stronger. He does so to extend his lifespan indefinitely. It's almost like he does it for survival, though one can assume that he's capable of eating regular food, so he doesn't get a moral pass for what he does.

That said, it doesn't make any sense that Moro has transformations. It was never in the narrative at all until it happened. It would have made far more sense for him to just look the same as he does after absorbing Seven-Three.

[Melee_Sovereign]

I never really got why, despite the absorptions being no longer needed, why he'd lose his prehensile tail, an extra limb is a huge advantage in a fight.

I always assumed its because he progressively looks more humanoid upon each absorption, because he is afterall absorbing human cyborgs.

It begs the question as to whether Dr. Gero had complete control over the visual appearance of Cell, or if Cell's appearance is largely determined by his genetic and cybernetic make-up. Did Dr. Gero just decide arbitrarily to make Cell look like a grasshopper? Or is his green buggy alien appearance a partial result of Frieza and Piccolo's genetic traits being a part of him? Did Dr. Gero just decide to give Cell a tail, or is his tail at least partially inherited from Frieza?

If it's the latter, then that means as he absorbs the Androids, Frieza becomes a smaller percentage of him. So he starts to take on the more humanoid appearance of the Androids more, and thus, loses his tail.

[BWri]

Homies I have an interesting idea for a future video that should get MasakoX interested in if he wants to. What If? Cell never gain his perfect form. Not even his Semi-Perfect form. Cell still absorbs 17 & 18 but never transform. Just basically gets stronger as even Toriyama once said Imperfect Cell was one of the best scary forms he has ever done. (Spot drawings aside.) You can do so many things with a powerful Imperfect Cell as he is crazy and can make Gohan fight for his life. It could work as an interesting idea to see. What do you guys think?

Cell still has hybrid DNA, so honestly he doesn't even need to absorb the androids to get crazy strong. What if his narcissism/pride grows so strong that it overrides Gero's directives? What if he then decides to rely on his own strength and genetics and grows stronger through training. There's still a chance he can transform naturally with genetics from both Frieza's race and Saiyans, but even without further transformations, proper training would take him far.

I can see a "What if" scenario for base Cell taking over the universe this way and absorbing tons of bio-energy throughout the cosmos like a horror movie monster.

[Jord]

Homies I have an interesting idea for a future video that should get MasakoX interested in if he wants to. What If? Cell never gain his perfect form. Not even his Semi-Perfect form. Cell still absorbs 17 & 18 but never transform. Just basically gets stronger as even Toriyama once said Imperfect Cell was one of the best scary forms he has ever done. (Spot drawings aside.) You can do so many things with a powerful Imperfect Cell as he is crazy and can make Gohan fight for his life. It could work as an interesting idea to see. What do you guys think?

Cell still has hybrid DNA, so honestly he doesn't even need to absorb the androids to get crazy strong. What if his narcissism/pride grows so strong that it overrides Gero's directives? What if he then decides to rely on his own strength and genetics and grows stronger through training. There's still a chance he can transform naturally with genetics from both Frieza's race and Saiyans, but even without further transformations, proper training would take him far.

I can see a "What if" scenario for base Cell taking over the universe this way and absorbing tons of bio-energy throughout the cosmos like a horror movie monster.

The whole thing with "Cell has DNA from everyone so he's super strong!" is kinda iffy to begin with so it can basically go anywhere where the writers want it (and it did with him reverting to his 2nd form, then blowing himself up and getting even stronger from it) When Cell returns they could probably extend the use of his tail to what ever they want. Just him absorbing Beerus with some bs explanation will do.

[TobyS]

Homies I have an interesting idea for a future video that should get MasakoX interested in if he wants to. What If? Cell never gain his perfect form. Not even his Semi-Perfect form. Cell still absorbs 17 & 18 but never transform. Just basically gets stronger as even Toriyama once said Imperfect Cell was one of the best scary forms he has ever done. (Spot drawings aside.) You can do so many things with a powerful Imperfect Cell as he is crazy and can make Gohan fight for his life. It could work as an interesting idea to see. What do you guys think?

Cell still has hybrid DNA, so honestly he doesn't even need to absorb the androids to get crazy strong. What if his narcissism/pride grows so strong that it overrides Gero's directives? What if he then decides to rely on his own strength and genetics and grows stronger through training. There's still a chance he can transform naturally with genetics from both Frieza's race and Saiyans, but even without further transformations, proper training would take him far.

I can see a "What if" scenario for base Cell taking over the universe this way and absorbing tons of bio-energy throughout the cosmos like a horror movie monster.

I've thought about this before and he seems set on the androids rather then just absorbing humans.

I think even if he could get stronger he'd be like less smart and durable and have less ki control at the same battle power, there's obviously a reason other then raw power he wants to evolve, it's still his most perfect version of himself. I feel like his evolutions are a boost to all his stats rather then just like BP like sucking up humans does.

[BWri]

I've thought about this before and he seems set on the androids rather then just absorbing humans.

I think even if he could get stronger he'd be like less smart and durable and have less ki control at the same battle power, there's obviously a reason other then raw power he wants to evolve, it's still his most perfect version of himself. I feel like his evolutions are a boost to all his stats rather then just like BP like sucking up humans does.

I've always seen it like a shortcut to accessing his full potential and strength at that particular time, hence a seemingly perfected version of himself. It's the most perfected he could be at that particular time with the way he was designed.

He essentially reaches the end point of the design and protocol Dr. Gero set for him once he absorbs #17 and #18, but later we see he can surpass this due to the influence of Saiyan genetics which we know Gero had limited data on. Absorbing the biomatter of weaker beings is even a part of that design because Cell needs to survive against the cyborgs to absorb them. He also needs to survive any other external threats that could prevent him from following his internal protocols.

The design of Gero doesn't necessarily fully capitalize on the bevy of abilities inherent in each genetic gift that Cell possesses, because Gero lacks that knowledge to accurately calculate -- really predict -- that. But we do know that Cell can indeed capitalize on these gifts outside of his initial design. He essentially gains a sort of SSJ2 form after his near death experience despite Gero not knowing about SSJ at all during his initial conception of Cell nor Zenkais for that matter.

It seems like the only things Cell gains from the cyborgs are the power boost and their techniques (unless he naturally possesses barrier techniques). He never, for instance, inherited their infinite energy generation.

His intelligence doesn't seem to wax or wane depending on if he absorbs a cyborg or not. He retains a great level of predatory cunning and intelligence regardless of his transformations. He did not lose any intellect, for instance, when he lost #18.

I'm not sure about the ki control. No, I take that back. When actually I think about it, Cell had fantastic levels of ki control the entire time. He was an expert at lowering his ki to basically nothing to effectively "disappear" from the Z-fighters in his very first form. I don't believe anything he showed after that was any more impressive in regards to ki control. And since it's a baseline ability that many of the warriors he's composed of have, it makes since that he'd be naturally good at it with or without absorbing #17 or #18.

[TobyS]

I've thought about this before and he seems set on the androids rather then just absorbing humans.

I think even if he could get stronger he'd be like less smart and durable and have less ki control at the same battle power, there's obviously a reason other then raw power he wants to evolve, it's still his most perfect version of himself. I feel like his evolutions are a boost to all his stats rather then just like BP like sucking up humans does.

I've always seen it like a shortcut to accessing his full potential and strength at that particular time, hence a seemingly perfected version of himself. It's the most perfected he could be at that particular time with the way he was designed.

He essentially reaches the end point of the design and protocol Dr. Gero set for him once he absorbs #17 and #18, but later we see he can surpass this due to the influence of Saiyan genetics which we know Gero had limited data on. Absorbing the biomatter of weaker beings is even a part of that design because Cell needs to survive against the cyborgs to absorb them. He also needs to survive any other external threats that could prevent him from following his internal protocols.

The design of Gero doesn't necessarily fully capitalize on the bevy of abilities inherent in each genetic gift that Cell possesses, because Gero lacks that knowledge to accurately calculate -- really predict -- that. But we do know that Cell can indeed capitalize on these gifts outside of his initial design. He essentially gains a sort of SSJ2 form after his near death experience despite Gero not knowing about SSJ at all during his initial conception of Cell nor Zenkais for that matter.

It seems like the only things Cell gains from the cyborgs are the power boost and their techniques (unless he naturally possesses barrier techniques). He never, for instance, inherited their infinite energy generation.

His intelligence doesn't seem to wax or wane depending on if he absorbs a cyborg or not. He retains a great level of predatory cunning and intelligence regardless of his transformations. He did not lose any intellect, for instance, when he lost #18.

I'm not sure about the ki control. No, I take that back. When actually I think about it, Cell had fantastic levels of ki control the entire time. He was an expert at lowering his ki to basically nothing to effectively "disappear" from the Z-fighters in his very first form. I don't believe anything he showed after that was any more impressive in regards to ki control. And since it's a baseline ability that many of the warriors he's composed of have, it makes since that he'd be naturally good at it with or without absorbing #17 or #18.

Anyone can compress their chi and hide,

What I meant was I assume there's other benefits to him to wanting to complete himself and not just absorbing enough humans to get an equivalent amount of battle power.

I'm just speculating on things like ki control and smarts. We don't see him take a written exam before and after he reverts, it's speculation on my part.

I don't think absorbing people could make him stronger then perfect, future Cell should have just set his sights on that route eventually when he realised the androids were gone but he even travels back to the past to get them, even though after killing trunks he has all the time in the universe with no chance of ever being caught or killed to his knowledge.

There must be some upper limit, I speculate eventually his first form COULDN'T contain more power without evolving, the other forms increase his carrying capacity. Perhaps he's self destruct like Cell games Cell or Yakon or maybe the biomass wasn't strictly additive in battle power terms and was something like a video game mechanic where humans became green cons and no longer gave him EXP points, I dunno.

Out of universe Toriyama never planned past SS2 Gohan levels or power so it wasn't something that would or could have happened I think.

[BWri]

Anyone can compress their chi and hide

In universe 7, it's a technique unique to the earthling martial artists and a few others. That's why they were so effective on Namek. The raising and lowering of ki in general is a component of ki control, which is something Vegeta first learned from his contact with the earthlings. It's a technique that Cell inherited. Clearly, not everyone can do it as it's a learned skill.

What I meant was I assume there's other benefits to him to wanting to complete himself and not just absorbing enough humans to get an equivalent amount of battle power.

There could be but what's presented is just a massive power boost and maybe a few techniques. His protocols also change, as once he reaches higher levels he is no longer interested in absorbing humans. The human absorption may just be linked to an overall survival protocol.

I'm just speculating on things like ki control and smarts. We don't see him take a written exam before and after he reverts, it's speculation on my part.

Right! I see what you mean, but there's not a ton of evidence. His intelligence seems pretty standard throughout all forms. He just seems to gain some sort of dignity/haughtiness in his final form.

I don't think absorbing people could make him stronger then perfect, future Cell should have just set his sights on that route eventually when he realised the androids were gone but he even travels back to the past to get them, even though after killing trunks he has all the time in the universe with no chance of ever being caught or killed to his knowledge.

Considering what he gained from absorbing only a few thousand humans, it stands to reason that he could eventually overcome his perfect form if he continued to do so. It's just a slower and much more ineffecient way of doing things. If he combines this method with his zenkai then I'm confident he could make comparable power gains to what he made by absorbing each cyborg. It's just, it'd likely be slower.

I say this because the show hasn't shown any limitation on how much biomatter Cell can absorb or even if his previous forms have limits.

There must be some upper limit, I speculate eventually his first form COULDN'T contain more power without evolving, the other forms increase his carrying capacity.

Nah. Firstly, there are no hard or permanent limits in Dragon Ball. I always thought this, but Super is constantly confirming this for me. The only limitation, and this isn't even set in stone or even consistent, is the rate of growth for some characters/races. Cell isn't a robot. He is a chimaera-like creature built in a lab, but his biology allows him to access spiritual energy. As long as he has access to this and a reasonable amount of willpower and desire to increase his strength, he'll increase his strength. His biology even encourages this at high rates of growth.

I'm not adverse at all to what you're theorizing. It's a neat idea even, but it's just that what's been shown of Cell and DB in general doesn't really support this. The only way I could see this is if Gero for some reason placed a directive in Cell's genetic programming to force him to limit his strength, but again there's nothing shown in the show to even hint at this.

I could even maybe see the cyborgs unlocking more access to certain genetic traits like some sort of video game skill tree but again it's just speculation without a shred of evidence.

Perhaps he's self destruct like Cell games Cell or Yakon or maybe the biomass wasn't strictly additive in battle power terms and was something like a video game mechanic where humans became green cons and no longer gave him EXP points, I dunno.

That makes sense to me. Like I said before, it's a good idea, but its not supported by the show. But I wouldn't be mad if tomorrow Toriyama-san said that this was how Cell works. It would fit.

Out of universe Toriyama never planned past SS2 Gohan levels or power so it wasn't something that would or could have happened I think.

The story is very simple. If Cell somehow lived past that arc, his power would be like everyone elses. He would continue to grow in strength and if Frieza and #17 are any indication, he would get incredibly strong in just a short amount of time. If he saw his rivals getting stronger, his pride would demand that he train too.