Is Bardock filler?

shotkeeper · Post by **shotkeeper** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:30 am

The title says it all.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:59 am

He was in the manga so no, no he is not.

shotkeeper · Post by **shotkeeper** » Sat May 17, 2008 9:11 am

Oh he was in the Manga? But is the Bardock special in the Manga? or were there just flashbacks.

Captain Awesome · Post by **Captain Awesome** » Sat May 17, 2008 9:24 am

Bardock himself, in the canon storyline is Goku's father, whether or not you think the events in the Bardock special are canon is up to you, I loved the special, and according to whatever interview it was in, so did Toriyama.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:03 am

shotkeeper wrote:Oh he was in the Manga? But is the Bardock special in the Manga? or were there just flashbacks.

There was just one pannel where Frieza pictures Bardock in his mind after looking at Goku.So as Mr.Awesome said Bardock himself is indeed canon but the special was never in manga form.

Post by **Herms** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:41 am

Barduck did first appear in the TV special, then was later added into the manga by Toriyama (you can read about it in this Daizenshuu EX tidbit page). But TV specials aren't really filler, at least as the term is generally used. Filler refers to scenes that are added to pad out the events of the manga (Pilaf and co. being present before they appear in the manga, Goku and Freeza staring into each others' loving eyes for minutes on end), but the TV specias are stand alone stories, similiar to the movies.

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » Sun May 18, 2008 2:38 pm

I say it's canon.

However in the Trunks special, Trunks going SSJ is different in both so whatever is canon is up to you.

shotkeeper · Post by **shotkeeper** » Sun May 18, 2008 4:28 pm

I see, so is the upcoming Anime special also going to be Canon?

saiyanprincess · Post by **saiyanprincess** » Sun May 18, 2008 4:58 pm

shotkeeper wrote:I see, so is the upcoming Anime special also going to be Canon?

Does anybody have any further information on the anime special?

Is this going to be a re-mastered episode or an entirely new one? This is the first I've heard of it!!!
I feel so... out of date

Post by **Herms** » Sun May 18, 2008 6:43 pm

It's apparently going to be a new piece of Dragon Ball animation, but there's still no real details on what the story will be like.

As for whether it will be canonical or not, that depends. I've said this before, but canon is a fan concept and different fans have different canons. Many people take only the manga as the canon, so any anime special will by definition not be canonical. But for people like Conan the SSJ, who have their own anime canons, I guess it will depend on whether the new special fits into the same continuity as the anime.

DBZGirl · Post by **DBZGirl** » Sun May 18, 2008 7:24 pm

You can go both ways on saying if it's canon or non-canon. You can say it's canon because Toriyama uses a panel showing Burdock in one instance in the manga. But you can also say it's non-canon, because the Burdock special was made before Toriyama used it in the manga. So, basically, it's just what you think about it. I'm not even sure what I think about it. =]

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:03 pm

DBZGirl wrote:But you can also say it's non-canon, because the Burdock special was made before Toriyama used it in the manga.

You can, but you'd be wrong.

And anyway, Raditz was first to mention Bardock, saying that Goku looked just like their father.

Post by **Herms** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:38 pm

Rocketman wrote:
DBZGirl wrote:But you can also say it's non-canon, because the Burdock special was made before Toriyama used it in the manga.
You can, but you'd be wrong.

And anyway, Raditz was first to mention Bardock, saying that Goku looked just like their father.

The Barduck TV special was in fact made before Barduck's brief appearence in the manga (as per this tidbit, again). Raditz simply mentions that Goku looks just like "his father"; the name "Barduck" and Toriyama's character design for him were originally made for the anime TV special.

Toriyama Boss · Post by **Toriyama Boss** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:49 pm

Herms wrote:It's apparently going to be a new piece of Dragon Ball animation, but there's still no real details on what the story will be like.

Wow, I didn't realize that.

Do you by any chance have a link or any info on when and how the animation will be made?!

As for whether it will be canonical or not, that depends. I've said this before, but canon is a fan concept and different fans have different canons. Many people take only the manga as the canon, so any anime special will by definition not be canonical. But for people like Conan the SSJ, who have their own anime canons, I guess it will depend on whether the new special fits into the same continuity as the anime.

Great analysis on what and how canon is defined!

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun May 18, 2008 9:08 pm

Herms wrote:The Barduck TV special was in fact made before Barduck's brief appearence in the manga (as per this tidbit, again).

The "wrong" was on saying it was non-canon. The manga is canon, and cannot be separated from canon. Bardock appeared in the manga, therefore Bardock is canon. The events in the Bardock special (that aren't shown in the manga) are disputable, but Bardock's appearance, his last-second attempt to stop Freeza, and his death by Freeza's planet-destroying attack is not.

Raditz simply mentions that Goku looks just like "his father"; the name "Barduck" and Toriyama's character design for him were originally made for the anime TV special.

True, but really. Take Goku, put him in Saiyan armor and a Scouter, give him his tail back and "evil eyes" and you've got Bardock. And that process comes straight from "you look just like our father" and some of Raditz's other comments.

Toriyama Boss · Post by **Toriyama Boss** » Sun May 18, 2008 9:21 pm

Rocketman wrote:The "wrong" was on saying it was non-canon. The manga is canon, and cannot be separated from canon. Bardock appeared in the manga, therefore Bardock is canon. The events in the Bardock special (that aren't shown in the manga) are disputable, but Bardock's appearance, his last-second attempt to stop Freeza, and his death by Freeza's planet-destroying attack is not.

Isn't canon by definition original? Bardock did come from the anime first.

Sedorna · Post by **Sedorna** » Sun May 18, 2008 9:26 pm

Rocketman wrote: True, but really. Take Goku, put him in Saiyan armor and a Scouter, give him his tail back and "evil eyes" and you've got Bardock. And that process comes straight from "you look just like our father" and some of Raditz's other comments.

Don't forget the scars!

Now I have a Bardock question. Why is Bardock voiced by Masako Nozawa? Sure, she voices Gohan, Goten, and Goku, but she doesn't voice Radditz. I remembering hearing that the reason that Goku kept his childlike voice throughout his adult life was to symbolize that he never lost his innocence and purity. But Bardock was a complete ass. He never *had* any innocence and purity, so why is Nozawa-san doing his voice?

Of course, it's entirely possible that the explanation I heard is complete bull, and the only reason Goku's voice doesn't change is "because she's always done it, goshdarnit!"

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Sun May 18, 2008 9:49 pm

Sedorna wrote:
Of course, it's entirely possible that the explanation I heard is complete bull, and the only reason Goku's voice doesn't change is "because she's always done it, goshdarnit!"

That's just about it. "WHO CARES IF HE'S 60! HE SHOULD STILL HAVE THE VOICE OF A 14 YEAR OLD BECAUSE HIS VA HAS ALWAYS DONE HIS VOICE! SO WHAT IF SHE STILL CAN VOICE 4 OTHER CHARACTERS!? SHE MUST DO GOKU!"

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun May 18, 2008 11:26 pm

Sedorna wrote:Now I have a Bardock question. Why is Bardock voiced by Masako Nozawa? Sure, she voices Gohan, Goten, and Goku, but she doesn't voice Radditz. I remembering hearing that the reason that Goku kept his childlike voice throughout his adult life was to symbolize that he never lost his innocence and purity. But Bardock was a complete ass. He never *had* any innocence and purity, so why is Nozawa-san doing his voice?

Based on the responses I've gotten on this question, I predict the answer will be:

Free sneer included for daring to question the Japanese cast.

Isn't canon by definition original? Bardock did come from the anime first.

...no? Arale is part of the DB canon. Heck, the Dragon Radar used for the rest of the series was made in Penguin Village.

Sedorna · Post by **Sedorna** » Mon May 19, 2008 12:00 am

Rocketman wrote:
Free sneer included for daring to question the Japanese cast.

Oh, I think she did a nice job. Then again, since she did every member of Goku's blood-related family except for Radditz, perhaps a better question would be why didn't she voice Radditz?