Saganbo was extremely surprised to hear that Yuzun.. *SPOILERS*

[GodVegetto91]

Had been defeated by Vegeta...

Saganbo KNOWS about Vegeta’s Perfected SSJ Blue form..

Considering he was right there on Planet Namek when they were fighting against Moro’s released prisoners..

And yet, even taking into account Vegeta’s Perfected SSJ Blue form.. Saganbo thought it was impossible that he could defeat Yuzun.. Afterall, “he’s supposed to be unbeatable after transforming!” On top of that, he likely got some of Moro’s power to amp him up even further, just like Moro did for Saganbo later in the story on Earth!

And Vegeta defeated this transformed, amped up, Yuzun, in his BASE Form...

Does this prove Post Yardrat Base Vegeta > Pre Yardrat SSBE Vegeta???









If you want to have Prime Moro STRONGER than BROLY... Then this way, you CAN!

What do you think???

[GodVegetto91]

On top of that, Moro’s statement ALSO hints at this!

”I see.. He truly has grown more powerful! That one called Vegeta!”

So Moro was surprised by Vegeta beating Yuzun aswell..

Even though Moro knows that Vegeta has SSBE... (as he fought SSBE Vegeta himself!)

And since Moro was not there on Yardrat with him, Moro could not have known that Vegeta was only in his Base form..! So that argument will not work either.

All that Moro knows.. Is that Vegeta is using Full Power against this pumped up monster... (which is SSBE naturally!)

Why would Moro be surprised by Vegeta defeating this being if he’s well aware of Vegeta having access to SSBE???! (Which is super powerful!)

“I see.. He truly has grown more powerful!”

And unbeknownst to ANY of them.. This was BASE Vegeta!

[Polyphase Avatron]

Eh, villains overestimating both themselves and their minions is nothing new.

[GodVegetto91]

Eh, villains overestimating both themselves and their minions is nothing new.

This screams like an instant dismissal to me without any willingness on your part to look at the objective evidence and take things from there. It’s a coping mechanism. I want you to look at the evidence and discuss it from an in universe standpoint.
Based on your post, it seems you really don’t want this to be the case, hence you look for a reason to dismiss it. It’s confirmation bias at its best.

Could you please use some in universe evidence that disproves it? (I’m not trying to attack you, I just want you to show me how this evidence I posted is false.)

Both Moro and Saganbo were surprised that SSBE Vegeta defeated Yuzun... (For that’s all they know!)

But the reality was, that it was actually BASE Vegeta who did so.. Putting his Base form ABOVE his previous SSBE form...

[Polyphase Avatron]

Eh, villains overestimating both themselves and their minions is nothing new.

This screams like an instant dismissal to me without any willingness on your part to look at the objective evidence and take things from there. It’s a coping mechanism. I want you to look at the evidence and discuss it from an in universe standpoint.
Based on your post, it seems you really don’t want this to be the case, hence you look for a reason to dismiss it. It’s confirmation bias at its best.

Could you please use some in universe evidence that disproves it? (I’m not trying to attack you, I just want you to show me how this evidence I posted is false.)

Both Moro and Saganbo were surprised that SSBE Vegeta defeated Yuzun... (For that’s all they know!)

But the reality was, that it was actually BASE Vegeta who did so.. Putting his Base form ABOVE his previous SSBE form...

Yuzun never seemed that strong to me, is all. Basically a Zarbon copy (get it?)

[TobyS]

Don't tell people they are being dismissive blue is thousands of times above base and blue e is above that.

For him to surpass that level is base is completely ridiculous like worse than golden Freeza, it's clearly just drama and hyperbole and you are seriously overthinking it just to make the powerscale ridiculous.

Even if we assume Goku made similar gains saganbo and moro would have literally blinked or breathed everyone who isn't them out of existence later.

[TobyS]

If you want some in universe logic.

Vegeta is surprised at how strong he is.

If this guy is as strong as old SSBE vegeta would have gone to that level unknowingly unnecessarily.

You can say he's testing his power but if this guy requires old SSBE and he's not sure he's got that strong he'd be in serious danger of getting speed blitzed and gibbed in base.

[Hugo Boss]

Vegeta’s battle power was rapidly decreasing when Saganbo met him the first time so he couldn’t know the full extent of Vegeta’s strength anyway. And Saganbo probably overestimated Yuzun’s strength as well. He couldn’t be more powerful than Moro himself, for example, who was weaker than SSBlue that time.

[GodVegetto91]

Hey, some people on this forum claimed that Prime Moro was stronger than Broly (and by extension even SSJ Blue Gogeta they believed).. This is the only way that could be true. If the new spoilers are to be believed, and Granolah really is going to become the strongest in the universe, he has to be stronger than Broly at the very least for that to be the case.

Gogeta in the Broly movie was also stronger than Goku’s and Vegeta’s SSJ Blue forms in his mere Base form.. If the next enemy really IS >>>> Previous enemy, than Prime Moro > Broly (and that makes it even within the realm of possibility for Prime Moro to surpass Gogeta Blue aswell.) And if that is the case, for current SSBE Vegeta to fight on almost equal footing to him, must mean that his Base form is likewise >>>>> Previous Blue, and Blue Evo.

It’s not too far of a stretch really.

Power creep going up every new arc is not a new thing. It has been the case ever since Dragon Ball came into existence over 35 years ago.

[GodVegetto91]

Don't tell people they are being dismissive blue is thousands of times above base and blue e is above that.

For him to surpass that level is base is completely ridiculous like worse than golden Freeza, it's clearly just drama and hyperbole and you are seriously overthinking it just to make the powerscale ridiculous.

Even if we assume Goku made similar gains saganbo and moro would have literally blinked or breathed everyone who isn't them out of existence later.

Goku stated that both Piccolo and Gohan got unrecognizably stronger since the last time he saw them during the battle against Moro and his minions on Earth. And way before even that, during the ToP, Gohan defeated Kefla, who is >>> Berserker Kale, who is already around SSJ Blue level! These are just the facts. Likewise, Piccolo also stated that this time around, Goku had gotten “way” stronger than the last time he say him in SSJ Blue..

It’s not a far stretch at all, given the evidence.

If you agree that Prime Moro is stronger than Broly (which most people on this forum seem to agree with, judging by their own words), than you also agree that Prime Moro must at least be relative (if not higher) than SSJ Blue Gogeta from the Broly movie, and for current SSBE Vegeta to fight on almost equal footing with this Moro, must mean that his Base form is AT LEAST as strong as Gogeta’s Base form was during the Broly movie, which was already > SSJ Blue Goku and Vegeta from that time.

Again, perfectly within the realm of possibility!

[Hugo Boss]

Even if Base Gogeta were stronger than SSB Vegeta (which is not confirmed anyway), we don’t know how SSBE Vegeta compares to them.

If Goku’s fight against Kafla is any indicative, it’s likely that SSBE Vegeta is comparable to SS Broly or SS Gogeta. SS Full Power Broly only managed to surpass SS Gogeta and was weaker than SSB Gogeta.

If Vegeta had a dormant power in the realm of SS Gogeta even without doing Yardratian training, surpassing SS Gogeta and getting close to SS Full Power Broly doesn’t seem so difficult. It wouldn’t require his regular form surpassing his former SSB, or even SS to be more precise.

Currently, I’m gravitating on the idea that Goku and Vegeta’s regular forms in Moro Arc got very close to their former SS.

[GodVegetto91]

LSSJ Kale (who is perfected SSJ Blue tier!), seriously struggled just to lift Magetta off the ground (who weighs 1000 tons),

While Transformed Yuzun easily lifted a very large building, (which lifts many times more than 1000 tons even! WAY more in fact!) and threw it at super high speeds towards Vegeta (that easily proves he is above Perfected SSJ Blue tier! And not just some random Zarbon dude)...

Than BASE Vegeta casually tossed it to the side ways with ONE hand!

If that isn’t proof enough to you guys, then I don’t know what is..

Also, both feats/instances were written by the same guy - Toyotaro! And he is certainly NOT forgetful like Toriyama is. He’s a young guy who is in the prime of his life. He seems to be very conscious and mindful of the lifting feats in his story.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Let's just add it to the mountain of powerscaling inconsistencies we already have in this franchise.

[GodVegetto91]

Let's just add it to the mountain of powerscaling inconsistencies we already have in this franchise.

What is?? Why are you in damage control mode?! There is no “inconsistency” here when it comes to powerscaling, just because you personally don’t like it.. This is literally what the evidence shows to us. Toyotaro isn’t senile like Toriyama.. He knows what he’s writing here. If he has Base Vegeta performing a feat, well above the feat from a confirmed perfected Blue tier character, then that is literally all the evidence we need.

Yuzun threw a (super large) building towards Base Vegeta, which we know weighs many times more than the 1000 tons that is Magetta.. And it flew to him at super-speeds aswell even!, yet Base Vegeta still casually swatted it aside, like a fly, (with just ONE hand!)

Later, we learn that both Saganbo and Moro were extremely surprised that SSBE Vegeta defeated Yuzun. If Moro is stronger than Broly and Gogeta Blue, (as many fans on here believe), then so is current SSBE Vegeta!

[Hugo Boss]

Yuzun threw a (super large) building towards Base Vegeta, which we know weighs many times more than the 1000 tons that is Magetta.. And it flew to him at super-speeds aswell even!, yet Base Vegeta still casually swatted it aside, like a fly, (with just ONE hand!)

We don’t have confirmation on how much that building weighs, nor the upper limits of Kale’s lifting strength.

By the way, this thread should be incorporated into the DBSuper Strength thread.

[GodVegetto91]

Yuzun threw a (super large) building towards Base Vegeta, which we know weighs many times more than the 1000 tons that is Magetta.. And it flew to him at super-speeds aswell even!, yet Base Vegeta still casually swatted it aside, like a fly, (with just ONE hand!)

We don’t have confirmation on how much that building weighs, nor the upper limits of Kale’s lifting strength.

By the way, this thread should be incorporated into the DBSuper Strength thread.

It’s not your job to play mod. So knock that off now.

Secondly, we do have a general idea of how much the building should weigh. And that’s all we need. Judging from your posts, it seems 100% clear to me that you don’t like the idea of Base Vegeta surpassing his previous SSBE form’s power.. And it clearly shows in your posts. You think of anything you can, to try and dismiss it. (Confirmation bias) aswell as cognitive dissonance.

The evidence is simple. It was a large building, (much) larger than random homes that most people live in. He threw it at Base Vegeta with super high speed. Base Vegeta easily swatted it away with a mere hand. Those are the feats. You can try to ignore them or deny them all you want, it’s still not going to change the fact that they exist. Why not just go the obvious route and accept that current Base Vegeta is simply stronger than his previous SSBE Form?

Do you agree that Prime Moro is above Broly?? If so, you also agree that current Vegeta is above Gogeta Blue from the Broly movie aswell.

That is all I’m going to say on this subject.

Peace.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Let's just add it to the mountain of powerscaling inconsistencies we already have in this franchise.

What is?? Why are you in damage control mode?! There is no “inconsistency” here when it comes to powerscaling, just because you personally don’t like it.. This is literally what the evidence shows to us. Toyotaro isn’t senile like Toriyama.. He knows what he’s writing here. If he has Base Vegeta performing a feat, well above the feat from a confirmed perfected Blue tier character, then that is literally all the evidence we need.

Yuzun threw a (super large) building towards Base Vegeta, which we know weighs many times more than the 1000 tons that is Magetta.. And it flew to him at super-speeds aswell even!, yet Base Vegeta still casually swatted it aside, like a fly, (with just ONE hand!)

Later, we learn that both Saganbo and Moro were extremely surprised that SSBE Vegeta defeated Yuzun. If Moro is stronger than Broly and Gogeta Blue, (as many fans on here believe), then so is current SSBE Vegeta!

So if he's such a good writer when it comes to powerscaling, what was the deal with the whole Roshi dodging Jiren business?

[Koitsukai]

Do you really believe there was a SSB level character running around in U7 (without Shin, Whis or Beerus knowing about it) (and in Moro's gang) playing as a forgetable goon - used to conquer one of the most peaceful planets?
That would put Yuzun at least above Moro himself, who wasn't even PB level at that time... this is really a stretch.

Why wasn't Yuzun Moro's right hand if he was naturally that gifted? why was Saganbo, who had to be injected with power to be relevant? why wasn't Yuzun part of the fight vs Goku, Vegeta and DaikaioshinBuu?
Why didn't Vegeta take him seriously and just shot him in base? is Yuzun also a perfect ki-signature hider?
Why wouldn't Moro eat Yuzun's energy if he was that powerful? he clearly has no better use for him, he sends him to visit quiet planets. Why wasn't Yuzun saved for a better fight -imagine a SSB level character getting injected with Moro's magic like Saganbo, who went from weaker than Trunks to stronger than Gohan.
Do you really think the strongest foe at that time (including the arc's villain, Moro) was used as a goon to be defeated without effort? really?

Who caught SSB level Yuzun in the first place? Merus? why didn't Merus alert them to go catch Yuzun too, who was not only stronger than Moro, but lacked magic tricks? or to beware of a goon that is SSB tier? how was this SSB level Yuzun contained behind bars?? does he have magic that got taken away from him too, preventing him from breaking out??

All of these questions weigh less than Yuzun lifting a building we don't even know how much it weighs in the first place????

[FlpShimizu]

GodVegetto91 you constantly antagonize people who disagree with your views, which in this case rely on a good amount of headcannon. It's not enjoyable to talk to you if that's all you always have to say. I'm not a mod but it happens in every thread I visit, come on man.

[GodVegetto91]

Do you really believe there was a SSB level character running around in U7 (without Shin, Whis or Beerus knowing about it) (and in Moro's gang) playing as a forgetable goon - used to conquer one of the most peaceful planets?
That would put Yuzun at least above Moro himself, who wasn't even PB level at that time... this is really a stretch.

Why wasn't Yuzun Moro's right hand if he was naturally that gifted? why was Saganbo, who had to be injected with power to be relevant? why wasn't Yuzun part of the fight vs Goku, Vegeta and DaikaioshinBuu?
Why didn't Vegeta take him seriously and just shot him in base? is Yuzun also a perfect ki-signature hider?
Why wouldn't Moro eat Yuzun's energy if he was that powerful? he clearly has no better use for him, he sends him to visit quiet planets. Why wasn't Yuzun saved for a better fight -imagine a SSB level character getting injected with Moro's magic like Saganbo, who went from weaker than Trunks to stronger than Gohan.
Do you really think the strongest foe at that time (including the arc's villain, Moro) was used as a goon to be defeated without effort? really?

Who caught SSB level Yuzun in the first place? Merus? why didn't Merus alert them to go catch Yuzun too, who was not only stronger than Moro, but lacked magic tricks? or to beware of a goon that is SSB tier? how was this SSB level Yuzun contained behind bars?? does he have magic that got taken away from him too, preventing him from breaking out??

All of these questions weigh less than Yuzun lifting a building we don't even know how much it weighs in the first place????

Their SSJ Blue powers from their past mean “NOTHING” to their strength at present.. Vegeta said it himself here.