GT and misogyny

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

It's also important to remember that Japan didn't get the anime on home media until 2004

That's weird... I wonder why not. I always thought it would have been really comfy and nostalgic if the original Dragon Ball had some Betamax releases. So much for that.

Maybe they just felt that there wasn't that big of a market for releasing an anime series still airing on TV, the only one i know of that got one concurrent to it's initial airings was the original run of Sailor Moon. I believe it got a full set of releases on Laserdisc and maybe VHS as well if i'm not mistaken.

[Grimlock]

Has Toei ever officially declared what's canon or not?

I don't think even Toei has the authority to say what's canonical and what's not, considering it's just a company that adapts mangas into animated versions. If I were to guess, only Shueisha, which holds the rights to Dragon Ball and Akira Toriyama himself can dictate what is canonical and what is not.

Either case, no. No one has ever established a canon. Up until now, all statements related to it come from random viewers. Therefore, they are arbritary, pointless, have no value in a discussion and are no more than mere opinions when they say "this is cannon! that is not cannon!1!1!11!".

[BWri]

I personally wouldn't mind if Super took a break from Universe 7 for a bit to focus on universe 6. If Kale, Caulifla, and Cabba became the protagonists for an arc or two I would actually love that even though it's incredibly Saiyan focused. The thought of them training with Vados is actually incredibly neat. I hope they go in that direction.

Um, I think none of these three characters deserves to be protagonists. Everything that is connected to them smells like... bad writing. But it's just me. I'd like to see more of them, if they are handled the right way, but not as protagonists.

This is what I mean. I think much more could be done with them. Conceptually, there is a vast space to work with with each character. So far, none of them have even remotely dipped a toe into what their concepts represent. We've really only seen the most shallow representation of each, but I think they have a lot of potential to be protagonists. The three of them are actually somewhat similar to the other adventure groups of Goku, Bulma, Yamcha and Goku, Pan, & Trunks.

I like their designs (except Cabba)... Kale I like the most.

Cabba looks fine in the manga.

[KBABZ]

It's also important to remember that Japan didn't get the anime on home media until 2004

That's weird... I wonder why not. I always thought it would have been really comfy and nostalgic if the original Dragon Ball had some Betamax releases. So much for that.

I'm guessing it would have been a big faff to do and they never got around to it. Until 2004, the only physical release of the anime were the Laserdiscs of the movies.

[ABED]

Has Toei ever officially declared what's canon or not?

I don't think even Toei has the authority to say what's canonical and what's not, considering it's just a company that adapts mangas into animated versions. If I were to guess, only Shueisha, which holds the rights to Dragon Ball and Akira Toriyama himself can dictate what is canonical and what is not.

Either case, no. No one has ever established a canon. Up until now, all statements related to it come from random viewers. Therefore, they are arbritary, pointless, have no value in a discussion and are no more than mere opinions when they say "this is cannon! that is not cannon!1!1!11!".

There isn't a single canon. Adaptations are their own thing. And canon does not need to be explicitly stated. It's what's in the story, and if the story subsequently throws something out, then it's no longer canon.

And does any of this matter beyond mere curiosity?

[Jord]

Has Toei ever officially declared what's canon or not?

I don't think even Toei has the authority to say what's canonical and what's not, considering it's just a company that adapts mangas into animated versions. If I were to guess, only Shueisha, which holds the rights to Dragon Ball and Akira Toriyama himself can dictate what is canonical and what is not.

Either case, no. No one has ever established a canon. Up until now, all statements related to it come from random viewers. Therefore, they are arbritary, pointless, have no value in a discussion and are no more than mere opinions when they say "this is cannon! that is not cannon!1!1!11!".

I think you're right on that. It would be very interesting to ask Toriyama what's canon or not, just to see his response.

[Grimlock]

Well, I've heard once that the Japanese vocabulary doesn't have the word "canon", so I guess its meaning must be unknown to them. If that is correct, we won't ever get a proper response.

Even if that wasn't the case, I very much doubt Toriyama would right on the spot state what is and what is not canonical, besides seemingly not caring about that, like I said, establishing canon is a conscious act. You can't make up your mind randomly.

[KBABZ]

Don't expect a proper canon confirmation response from the country that gave us "please be excited/look forward to it".

[Matches Malone]

If it's not in the original manga, its "canon" status is debatable. The original manga is the only product which events will always be taken into account in every version of the franchise, everything else is replaceable.

[Kinokima]

This is a franchise that has alternative versions of the same story (sometimes which contradict each other) so they obviously don’t care about canon

[Majin Buu]

I guess she can provide a distraction but is being cannon fodder really how you think they should use her? She was a relic of different tone. When the scope of the story gets bigger, she has no place anymore. What skills does she have that allow her to contribute in any meaningful way?

I'd view it more as a pay off that displays how she's grown as a fighter while working within what assistance she would be realistically capable of providing, rather than her being "cannon fodder". It would be far more than what she got.

[ABED]

I guess she can provide a distraction but is being cannon fodder really how you think they should use her? She was a relic of different tone. When the scope of the story gets bigger, she has no place anymore. What skills does she have that allow her to contribute in any meaningful way?

I'd view it more as a pay off that displays how she's grown as a fighter while working within what assistance she would be realistically capable of providing, rather than her being "cannon fodder". It would be far more than what she got.

Grown in a few days?

[KBABZ]

The Buu Arc, and any Dragon Ball arc really, simply doesn't take place across enough time for Videl to catch up and be meaningfully effective against the sorts of opponents that Gohan would be having trouble with at that point, even if she used the time chamber. And unfortunately the human characters simply were not written to have the exponential capabilities that Saiyans and other alien characters do.

[Majin Buu]

Grown in a few days?

What I'm thinking of would require some slight reworking of the story, yes; again, just throwing out ideas. No need to nitpick it to death.

But like I said earlier, I don't buy that Toriyama, with his reputation for making stuff up on the fly and not planning ahead, was just so hamstrung by the plot that he couldn't do anything at all with Videl. I simply don't buy that argument.

I think he could have come with something if he had wanted to.

[jjgp1112]

Grown in a few days?

What I'm thinking of would require some slight reworking of the story, yes; again, just throwing out ideas. No need to nitpick it to death.

But like I said earlier, I don't buy that Toriyama, with his reputation for making stuff up on the fly and not planning ahead, was just so hamstrung by the plot that he couldn't do anything at all with Videl. I simply don't buy that argument.

I mean he basically threw away every element of the High School stuff once the Tournament started and for non-fighting characters, a slapstick guy like Mr. Satan is far more in his wheelhouse and also, y'know, funnier and yields more interesting results.

[Majin Buu]

I mean he basically threw away every element of the High School stuff once the Tournament started and for non-fighting characters, a slapstick guy like Mr. Satan is far more in his wheelhouse and also, y'know, funnier and yields more interesting results.

It's not like he had to jettison Videl along with all the other high school stuff though. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater and whatnot.

If nothing else, why not have her stick around and play off Mr.Satan? There's gotta some comedy potential there. A father-daughter comedy duo with her as the straight (wo)man would be interesting considering we don't actually see them interact all that much as father and daughter. Perhaps weave in the fact that she's stronger than him into that context? Maybe she's the one that has to pull his ass out of the action when he gets too in over his his head?

I think it's just too dismissive to just assume that this is just the way it had to be and there was absolutely no alternatives. I'll go out on a limb and suggest that perhaps a better writer could have thought of something better (and keep in mind I'm saying this as someone who likes the Buu arc).

[Koitsukai]

For the Buu arc I think Videl has nothing much to offer, she is not relevant powerwise and she is not particularly funny nor has any comedic attribute. And accomodating a story to her is just out of the question because the reasons previously stated.
However, if a woman was going to be given a more prominent role, 18 had a much better chance at it, and perhaps even Marron as well, or more.

She was only used as comic relief with Mr. Satan, but she could've been useful in the first part of the arc. When dealing with Babidi's goons, without changing the story, around the time Gohan tries to destroy the egg she could've joined trying to help, also out of worry about hermissing husband.

About Marron, she is around Goten and Trunks' age, so she could've been introduced as a prodigy fighter too, based on her parents abilities, making a trio out of the duo. Or that, a duo that doesn't want to introduce a girl into their "squad" because boys don't want to hang out with girls. She could've been trying to join them and they'd be trying to avoid her, and at some point have her saving the boys. With a beat of her trying to earn their trust.

I'm not thrilled about any of these scenarios but I think it would've worked better(or it would've been "easier" to include a female) with Marron or 18 than with Videl.

[JulieYBM]

Art isn't made in a vacuum. The decision to exclude Videl is a decision Toriyama made. There's alao zero reason Kibito could not have pulled a Grand Elder and brought out Videl's potential. Easy fucking fix.

[jjgp1112]

Art isn't made in a vacuum. The decision to exclude Videl is a decision Toriyama made. There's alao zero reason Kibito could not have pulled a Grand Elder and brought out Videl's potential. Easy fucking fix.

And how exactly would this unlocked potential make her any more useful than any other non-Saiyan besides Mr. Satan in the arc...which is to say, not useful at all? What purpose would this actually serve? If anything, more people would complain when such a thing accomplishes absolutely zilch.

[JulieYBM]

Art isn't made in a vacuum. The decision to exclude Videl is a decision Toriyama made. There's alao zero reason Kibito could not have pulled a Grand Elder and brought out Videl's potential. Easy fucking fix.

And how exactly would this unlocked potential make her any more useful than any other non-Saiyan besides Mr. Satan in the arc...which is to say, not useful at all? What purpose would this actually serve? If anything, more people would complain when such a thing accomplishes absolutely zilch.

That's where actually writing comes in.

I think we can expect the multi-million dollar publishing company to get over its hatred of women.