"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[DiscountDabi]

I went back through the Moro arc and I found something that I forgot about. When chapter 61 came out everyone was talking about Vegeta’s loss and Piccolos dumb line and Moro’s new form so everyone basically glossed it over but I have to say that this is the dumbest thing ever said in Dragon Ball. Like there have been a lot of dumb things but this takes the cake.



You could have not brought it up and it would have been better. You could have said that Namekians don’t decompose but just shrivel up overtime and turn to dust or litterally any other excuse.

But the dragon balls just having the power to keep people from rotting is just the dumbest most random excuse for why they didn’t decompose.

[BWri]

I went back through the Moro arc and I found something that I forgot about. When chapter 61 came out everyone was talking about Vegeta’s loss and Piccolos dumb line and Moro’s new form so everyone basically glossed it over but I have to say that this is the dumbest thing ever said in Dragon Ball. Like there have been a lot of dumb things but this takes the cake.
...
But the dragon balls just having the power to keep people from rotting is just the dumbest most random excuse for why they didn’t decompose.

I did think this was strange and unnecessary when I first read it. I didn't linger on it because nothing is sacred in this franchise anymore. It fits with most of the other additions to the series that Super has added, things that are added to the story for the sake of convenience and expediency. It is quite dumb, but like most of these new additions to the series, they can be accepted with enough headcanon. With headcanon, this one's not even that bad.

Now that they are expanding the abilities of the Dragon Balls and even the sheer amount of them that exist (such as the one's on Cereal that are quite powerful despite the low bar needed to get one's wish), one has to wonder: what else can these things do besides granting wishes. With Elder Moori changing the Namekian DBs over time, I can see him putting some sort of spell that protects the Namekians, who are no strangers to genocide, from complete death. The dumb part is, why the hell would this spell only preserve the corpses of the Namekians and not do something more useful like revive them, hide them, or provide some other protection from death? Perhaps it simply "protects" them in the vaguest way possible, which means the spell could cast a wide variety of protection effects that we don't know about.

Of course, all that means I'm doing the all the mental work for the creators, but that is pretty much what Super expects nowadays, either that or just accept what's nonsensical to keep things moving. We gotta get to the next fight, no time to stop!

You could have not brought it up and it would have been better. You could have said that Namekians don’t decompose but just shrivel up overtime and turn to dust or litterally any other excuse.

Right! Before this, I just assumed that the Namekians, if they were still preserved could have been this way because Moro's magic didn't affect their bodies and they are a fairly survivable and long lived race, able to subsist on water only. It wouldn't be beyond the realm of reason for them to survive for a few months with only the moisture in their bodies.

But most things in this series nowadays are ill-conceived so I turn my brain off to enjoy it at face value.

[Miracles]

Nothing really happened.

-Goku and Vegeta's usual arrogance is on display. Eleec said they could defeat Granoolah together.
Instead they are ignoring Whis warning about their pride being their doom.

-Granolah put down Goku twice already in the war
-UI gets stronger the higher the Super Saiyan form used
-Gas has bad memories of planet Cereal. It seems like he lost in a fight before!
-Freeza has yet to show.

[Kinokima]

Nothing really happened.

-Goku and Vegeta's usual arrogance is on display. Eleec said they could defeat Granoolah together.
Instead they are ignoring Whis warning about their pride being their doom.

Or maybe you are missing the part that while Goku was fighting Granolah, Vegeta was figuring out who Granolah was

There is no guarantee even together they could beat Granolah. Elec just assumed so because he knew they were strong but he also doesn’t know himself what Granolah is fully capable of yet. Fighting Granolah blind may have also been their downfall. So I would argue there was more than pride at work here.


On another note I assume Goku & Vegeta will make mistakes throughout this arc. I just don’t necessarily think this is one of them in this case.

[Hugo Boss]

Well, at least they brought 2 senzu beans and this time is Vegeta who is carrying them, not Goku.

[Xeogran]

I just remembered that Oatmeel is a thing
Anyone expects a twist where they reveal he was a Cerelean in the past? I doubt they'll leave him only as a talking eyepatch of Granolah.

[DiscountDabi]

I just remembered that Oatmeel is a thing
Anyone expects a twist where they reveal he was a Cerelean in the past? I doubt they'll leave him only as a talking eyepatch of Granolah.

I think that’s exactly what he will be. I hope he uses Oatmeal next chapter, he’s basically Granolas Jarvis as it seems.

[caire]

I just remembered that Oatmeel is a thing
Anyone expects a twist where they reveal he was a Cerelean in the past? I doubt they'll leave him only as a talking eyepatch of Granolah.

Yeah, Oatmeel is the most intriguing thing about this arc for me. I think the lack of spotlight on it is a purposeful misdirect. At first I was wondering whether it was another surviving Cerealian communicating with him, but the story and Granolah himself have been pretty insistent that there's no other Cerealians so I don't think that's the case. You may well be right, perhaps it's named after someone Granolah once knew. And promotional materials have referred to it as only a "mysterious entity", which gives away absolutely nothing. Right now it seems to be just a ridiculously advanced scouter - I wonder who developed it?

[Kinokima]

Well, at least they brought 2 senzu beans and this time is Vegeta who is carrying them, not Goku.

I actually think THAT might be a mistake lol

The fact that they highlighted they only have 2 makes me think they will run out at some point.


Edit: And I also like the theory that Granolah is talking to himself and Oatmeel is someone who used to exist. Though I worry the longer the reveal takes if it’s not something interesting I’ll be more disappointed.

[Alruneia]

I just remembered that Oatmeel is a thing
Anyone expects a twist where they reveal he was a Cerelean in the past? I doubt they'll leave him only as a talking eyepatch of Granolah.

Maybe, maybe not. I mean, it is convenient that he has a cereal-ish name. But I'm kinda wondering if him being an AI will be relevant in relation to 7-3 at some point, and if that's how he'll become more than a talking eyepatch. The plot can only thicken from where we are now, so we'll have to wait and see, I guess.

[Mr Baggins]

I appreciate Goku's melding of UI's principles with the Super Saiyan forms, particularly Super Saiyan God, as well as Granolah's internal conflict as a Cerealean hell-bent on revenge but with an obvious conscience. Still couldn't care less for the slower pacing or this by-now-stale action structure of Goku and Vegeta taking turns, even if it is (technically) befitting of their characters.

I'll withhold any detailed thoughts for the end of the arc this time, but it's got my attention as a DB story that feels compelling and also frustrating to no end. Thus far, it's neither Toyotaro's best nor his worst.

[ZodiacBeast]

It would be more interesting if Granollah really was just talking to himself.

Knowing Dragon Ball, Oatmeel is going to take over Seven-Three, copy Granollah and Goku blah blah blah ARGH

[MCDaveG]

Nothing really happened.

-Goku and Vegeta's usual arrogance is on display. Eleec said they could defeat Granoolah together.
Instead they are ignoring Whis warning about their pride being their doom.

-Granolah put down Goku twice already in the war
-UI gets stronger the higher the Super Saiyan form used
-Gas has bad memories of planet Cereal. It seems like he lost in a fight before!
-Freeza has yet to show.

You always bring milk to Cereal... maybe Gas is lactose intolerant.
Hence his name

[LightBing]

Next chapter will probably be revealed what Vegeta has guessed about the past and what's the deal with Gas.

Whatever those are they will be used either to pacify Granolah or rile him up beyond the point of reason. I'm starting to think Freeza won't be featured nor the Namekians lore will be further used.

A lot can still happen but I'm feeling a reduced scope, with Gas/Granolah as villains and UI/Hakai development as the only plots.

[Miracles]

Nothing really happened.

-Goku and Vegeta's usual arrogance is on display. Eleec said they could defeat Granoolah together.
Instead they are ignoring Whis warning about their pride being their doom.

Or maybe you are missing the part that while Goku was fighting Granolah, Vegeta was figuring out who Granolah was

There is no guarantee even together they could beat Granolah. Elec just assumed so because he knew they were strong but he also doesn’t know himself what Granolah is fully capable of yet. Fighting Granolah blind may have also been their downfall. So I would argue there was more than pride at work here.


On another note I assume Goku & Vegeta will make mistakes throughout this arc. I just don’t necessarily think this is one of them in this case.

Vegeta trying to figure out who Granolah is was not the intent of refusing to collaborate. It was because he was in "no mood" to do so and he came to show his "superiority" over Goku.

Nothing really happened.

-Goku and Vegeta's usual arrogance is on display. Eleec said they could defeat Granoolah together.
Instead they are ignoring Whis warning about their pride being their doom.

-Granolah put down Goku twice already in the war
-UI gets stronger the higher the Super Saiyan form used
-Gas has bad memories of planet Cereal. It seems like he lost in a fight before!
-Freeza has yet to show.

You always bring milk to Cereal... maybe Gas is lactose intolerant.
Hence his name

lol

Seriously. I could see Toriyama having this in mind while making these characters.

[Kinokima]

Vegeta trying to figure out who Granolah is was not the intent of refusing to collaborate. It was because he was in "no mood" to do so and he came to show his "superiority" over Goku

Yes I know what Vegeta initially said. But his actions say there was more to it.

Considering directly after that line he tells Goku you can fight Granolah first to get one back at him and then immediately observes the situation because he realizes that something is up with Granolah and he doesn’t seem like a typical villain. It’s a bit weird for Vegeta to say I am here to prove I am superior but then immediately say but Goku you can fight first.lol

[Koitsukai]

In DBS, Geets usually fights first. He did so during the U6 tournament, against Black, Broly and Moro on Namek.
It's a suprising change of pace to let Goku go first, specially if he has something to prove to himself and to Goku... unless he had something else on his mind.

His excuse to do so seemed like a really nice joke to me though, "hey, he insulted you first, so you better act on it, byeee"

[Nistarkail]

[quote]I could see the Z-Buddies wishing for something like getting rid of the strain of the Kaio-Ken, but I doubt they would wish to increase their raw/actual strength. They wouldn't want to cheat to get ahead, but they'd want to have an ace to pull out when they need it.[/quote]

Well, I understand your feel because I'm the first of the line to be nostalgic of Z-warriors, but we have to accept the truth and their limits. Despite the fact that technically earthlings are more creative and prepared compared to most of Saiyan characters, they sheer strength or ki cannot go beyond most of alien "mid-bosses".

But earthlings have pros and cons:

Let's start from the pros.

- As said before, they were able to devop ki techniques with sheer strength. The overused Kamehameha, Mafuba, Wolf Fang Fist, the Shihoko, the Kienzan, etc. Guys like Goku and Vegeta instead used to copy-paste everything from their masters, friends or acquitances. Goten and Trunks are underrated and immature, and they are actually able to spar 1to1 against Mini-Cell (so it means automatically that no earthling can reach the power of one perfect Cell, but it was obvious).

Another example: Moro states that a technique like Garlick Cannon was absolutely ridiculous. It's the point of view of Toyotaro, in this case making speaking one of his character.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploa ... 53-012.jpg

- When earthlings were trained by Goku's previous masters, they got better results, until Cell's saga.

Just to say that Goku was 330 after trained by Kami and aside Yajirobei and Jaozi, the three strongest earthling got 1770 (Kuririn) 1830 (Tien) and 1480 (Yamcha).

However, already during Frieza saga, many villains were so strong that only Saiyans can surpass them (while mid- bosses could be surpassed by more recent characters like Gohan, for example). It's a fact that never changes.

And now the cons:

- Earthlings are physically more ki-limited than most of the races in their universe. This is a fact, because after Vegeta's and Nappa's demise, the story continues introducing a lot of alien characters:

DBZ: most of enemies in the series had a superior amount of ki, and in fact low-tier guys like Kiwi, Dodoria and Zarbon were initially 10 times stronger than earthlings. Characters like this were surpassed because the old Guru awaken Kurinin's potential, but what if he revived their power, instead? This situation reiterates until the end of DBZ, and the only peak was reached after Majin Bu recognized Tien's power after received a Shihoko in his face. So maybe the maximum reached was around 1st Cell form?

DBS: it seems that Goku's universe can be full of characters stronger and weaker than the trio. Specifically:

Deities: I was always perplexed about South Kai real strength, and I prefer to avoid this argument for some lack of data. Same story for Kibith.

Galactic patrols: are enough weak to not deserve a comparison regarding power levels. Merus now is a ?

Moro's Galactic brigade: Saganbo was the strongest and without his doped state, Vegeta confirmed that he could be handled by individuals like Trunks. After him, the super giant cheater and Zauyogi were enough to beat humans without much care (but only applying the ki-doping condition as well). Maybe without that improvement these guys can be a match for guys like Nappa or maybe not.

The Heaters: I had the impression that aside Gas, these three guys maybe can give some hard time to Piccolo which now improved a lot. Maybe they are literally inspired to Bojack',s gang, even in terms of strength.

- They have physical limits: the past Yamcha tried to train in the G-Room, being almost crushed by the impressive amount of gravity. He was good enough to survive, but in that moment of the storyline, I'm sure that no earthling could train with this handicap.

- They are also psychologically limited. No earthling wanted to renounce their years of life just to become stronger after trained in the Hyperbolic chamber of Space & Time; no earthling proactively proposed to spar with stronger characters because they trust their heroes in order to be saved from the main antagonist.

- For some plot reasons none of them was curious enough to achieve impressive techniques like Genkidama or Kaioken.

[TobyS]

snip

Yamcha training in the gravity room and getting owned by it were stupid anime filler.

It just made him look stupid there was no reason to jump from 10x which he mastered all the way to 300x it just makes him look retarded and wanks the Saiyans off.

[ZodiacBeast]

If Yamcha had taken it slow and had actually gotten stronger, it would have been cool. I like that kind of filler.

Maybe he could try again?