Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

He's definitely special, he is one of the few that have the hakai earring, he does jack all millenium long and still comes up on top and has a higher form of UI than the rest of the GoDs. He doesn't even need to use his hands to defeat a GoD level character like Moro arc Vegeta. He has an impressive control of UI and Hakai.

Only Quitela is on his league, but who knows if that's also been retconned and not even that mouse can touch him now. Maybe in an actual fight without rules and hakai allowed, Quitela gets bodied like Vegeta.

I guess, he was conceived as being in the same league as everybody else, but give him a few more arcs and not even the Daishinkan will be on his level.

[Koitsukai]

Lol, more like the terror of retcons. But yeah, Beerus is Super Saiyan Omni-man now.

[GodVegetto91]

Okay.. This does put a smile on my face! ^^^

[Jack Bz]

The idea that Beerus is stronger than Merus is the thing that blows my mind the most. I had assumed before then that any angel, trainee or not, is in a whole other dimension of power to any god or mortal. But there's a decent amount of evidence that Beerus could have beaten him without needing to try too hard

[TheSaiyanGod]

The idea that Beerus is stronger than Merus is the thing that blows my mind the most. I had assumed before then that any angel, trainee or not, is in a whole other dimension of power to any god or mortal. But there's a decent amount of evidence that Beerus could have beaten him without needing to try too hard

Are you saying this using UI Goku Vs Angel Moro as the basis for this comparison between Beerus and Merus? If that's the case, I particularly always thought that Moro didn't have time to touch the surface of Merus' true power. We don't see him manifesting thr halo, staff and none of the hax that an angel / trainee has (like instant healing, for example).

I'm saying this because I know some people usually put Goku / Moro / Merus on the same level due to the final battle (which could end up having Beerus above all of them assuming that he's stronger than UI Goku), but I've always had Merus as above both and Beerus for example.

[ZombieVito]

I'm mostly just confused on Gods of Destruction in general now. Is Beerus special, or is he just in the same league?

You have to use out of universe logic to figure this one out. Universe 7 is apparently Toriyama-san's favorite. They have the best of everything. Best Saiyans, best Coldling, best androids (including Cell and 7-3), best Namekian (Piccolo required less fusions to acquire his power), and also the best GoD.

Just like he quickly made Goku's group the strongest on Earth, he quickly made U7 the strongest in the multiverse.

While it's true Piccolo only assimilated 2 Namekians, he is vastly inferior to Saonel and Pirina in the ToP. The Namekian duo gave Ultimate Gohan power while Piccolo needed base Gohan to save him sometimes.

Who knows where he will stand once Toei adapts Moro though.

[BWri]

While it's true Piccolo only assimilated 2 Namekians, he is vastly inferior to Saonel and Pirina in the ToP. The Namekian duo gave Ultimate Gohan power while Piccolo needed base Gohan to save him sometimes.

Yeah, but again, that's 3 Namekians versus literally dozens or hundreds and even at peak performance they aren't even that much stronger than Piccolo. It's likely with 1 more fusion with a warrior type that Piccolo would surpass them or even training.

Who knows where he will stand once Toei adapts Moro though.

The manga insinuates a massive jump with training alone. Going by previous trends, the anime would likely amplify his manga power even more like they've done with #17 and others.

[TobyS]

I'm mostly just confused on Gods of Destruction in general now. Is Beerus special, or is he just in the same league?

You have to use out of universe logic to figure this one out. Universe 7 is apparently Toriyama-san's favorite. They have the best of everything. Best Saiyans, best Coldling, best androids (including Cell and 7-3), best Namekian (Piccolo required less fusions to acquire his power), and also the best GoD.

Just like he quickly made Goku's group the strongest on Earth, he quickly made U7 the strongest in the multiverse.

While it's true Piccolo only assimilated 2 Namekians, he is vastly inferior to Saonel and Pirina in the ToP. The Namekian duo gave Ultimate Gohan power while Piccolo needed base Gohan to save him sometimes.

Who knows where he will stand once Toei adapts Moro though.

That's only in the anime they get owned pretty easily in the manga, any talk of current granolah arc Beerus should use the manga as a base.

[ZombieVito]

While it's true Piccolo only assimilated 2 Namekians, he is vastly inferior to Saonel and Pirina in the ToP. The Namekian duo gave Ultimate Gohan power while Piccolo needed base Gohan to save him sometimes.

Yeah, but again, that's 3 Namekians versus literally dozens or hundreds and even at peak performance they aren't even that much stronger than Piccolo. It's likely with 1 more fusion with a warrior type that Piccolo would surpass them or even training.

Who knows where he will stand once Toei adapts Moro though.

The manga insinuates a massive jump with training alone. Going by previous trends, the anime would likely amplify his manga power even more like they've done with #17 and others.

Huh? No, Piccolo is base tier. Saonel and Pirina are low Blue tier. They vastly surpass Piccolo in the ToP.

[BWri]

Huh? No, Piccolo is base tier. Saonel and Pirina are low Blue tier. They vastly surpass Piccolo in the ToP.

Piccolo is SSJ2 tier, maybe even a little higher. SBC, which is using his own power was strong enough to exceed them, so he's not that far from them.

[Berserker1921]

While it's true Piccolo only assimilated 2 Namekians, he is vastly inferior to Saonel and Pirina in the ToP. The Namekian duo gave Ultimate Gohan power while Piccolo needed base Gohan to save him sometimes.

Yeah, but again, that's 3 Namekians versus literally dozens or hundreds and even at peak performance they aren't even that much stronger than Piccolo. It's likely with 1 more fusion with a warrior type that Piccolo would surpass them or even training.

Who knows where he will stand once Toei adapts Moro though.

The manga insinuates a massive jump with training alone. Going by previous trends, the anime would likely amplify his manga power even more like they've done with #17 and others.

Huh? No, Piccolo is base tier. Saonel and Pirina are low Blue tier. They vastly surpass Piccolo in the ToP.

Low SsjB tier? They were never that strong. Probably at best vegito (Buu saga). Gohan isn’t that strong. He is high GOD at best.

[ZombieVito]

Huh? No, Piccolo is base tier. Saonel and Pirina are low Blue tier. They vastly surpass Piccolo in the ToP.

Piccolo is SSJ2 tier, maybe even a little higher. SBC, which is using his own power was strong enough to exceed them, so he's not that far from them.

The Gohan he defeated in episode 88 is not the same Gohan that fought in the ToP. Gohan grew a lot stronger.

Piccolo is very clearly base tier and close to base Gohan during the ToP based on their fight with the Namekians.

Low SsjB tier? They were never that strong. Probably at best vegito (Buu saga). Gohan isn’t that strong. He is high GOD at best.

No. Ultimate Gohan rivals SSB Goku. Confirmed by the narrator himself.

The chain during the ToP is very clearly: SSB Goku = Golden Freeza > SSB Vegeta >= Toppo > Ultimate Gohan > = < 17.

P.S. Base Vegetto from the Boo arc is an ant at this point. Base Goku one shots him by the ToP.

[Berserker1921]

Huh? No, Piccolo is base tier. Saonel and Pirina are low Blue tier. They vastly surpass Piccolo in the ToP.

Piccolo is SSJ2 tier, maybe even a little higher. SBC, which is using his own power was strong enough to exceed them, so he's not that far from them.

The Gohan he defeated in episode 88 is not the same Gohan that fought in the ToP. Gohan grew a lot stronger.

Piccolo is very clearly base tier and close to base Gohan during the ToP based on their fight with the Namekians.

Low SsjB tier? They were never that strong. Probably at best vegito (Buu saga). Gohan isn’t that strong. He is high GOD at best.

No. Ultimate Gohan rivals SSB Goku. Confirmed by the narrator himself.

The chain during the ToP is very clearly: SSB Goku = Golden Freeza > SSB Vegeta >= Toppo > Ultimate Gohan > = < 17.

P.S. Base Vegetto from the Boo arc is an ant at this point. Base Goku one shots him by the ToP.

First of all Goku one shotted him.

Secondly, does that mean Krillin and 18 are SsjB levels as well?

Also if he was SsjB level, why didn’t he hurt toppo? Who was supposedly the same level as Goku.

Gohan was at best ssjgod. Goku always plays with his food, sort of speak. If gohan was SsjB, he would have done better against toppo.

Those are Namekians were like I said high z levels. And Buu saga Vegito wouldn’t have been an ant during super. Most of the people at the tournament of power were probably (Namek) frieza to superbuu levels at best. The only people who were actually strong were bergamo, hit, kale, Anilaza, Kefla, toppo, Dyspo, ribreann, and Jiren. The rest were all fodder. As was most of the z warriors as well.

[ZombieVito]

Piccolo is SSJ2 tier, maybe even a little higher. SBC, which is using his own power was strong enough to exceed them, so he's not that far from them.

The Gohan he defeated in episode 88 is not the same Gohan that fought in the ToP. Gohan grew a lot stronger.

Piccolo is very clearly base tier and close to base Gohan during the ToP based on their fight with the Namekians.

Low SsjB tier? They were never that strong. Probably at best vegito (Buu saga). Gohan isn’t that strong. He is high GOD at best.

No. Ultimate Gohan rivals SSB Goku. Confirmed by the narrator himself.

The chain during the ToP is very clearly: SSB Goku = Golden Freeza > SSB Vegeta >= Toppo > Ultimate Gohan > = < 17.

P.S. Base Vegetto from the Boo arc is an ant at this point. Base Goku one shots him by the ToP.

First of all Goku one shotted him.

Secondly, does that mean Krillin and 18 are SsjB levels as well?

Also if he was SsjB level, why didn’t he hurt toppo? Who was supposedly the same level as Goku.

Gohan was at best ssjgod. Goku always plays with his food, sort of speak. If gohan was SsjB, he would have done better against toppo.

Those are Namekians were like I said high z levels. And Buu saga Vegito wouldn’t have been an ant during super. Most of the people at the tournament of power were probably (Namek) frieza to superbuu levels at best. The only people who were actually strong were bergamo, hit, kale, Anilaza, Kefla, toppo, Dyspo, ribreann, and Jiren. The rest were all fodder. As was most of the z warriors as well.

Well Goku used Kaioken. Gohan only rivaled SSB Goku so of course he will one shot him if he used it.

No? Goku used SSB only to test the participants of the ToP. He never went full power, not even with 17.

Because he's weaker than Toppo.

Base Vegetto was weaker than Super Boo with Gohan absorbed. Commenson Vegeta completely owned SS3 Gotenks like he was nothing. Vegetto from the Boo arc would need Super Saiyan to beat the base Saiyans by the ToP.

[Berserker1921]

The Gohan he defeated in episode 88 is not the same Gohan that fought in the ToP. Gohan grew a lot stronger.

Piccolo is very clearly base tier and close to base Gohan during the ToP based on their fight with the Namekians.


No. Ultimate Gohan rivals SSB Goku. Confirmed by the narrator himself.

The chain during the ToP is very clearly: SSB Goku = Golden Freeza > SSB Vegeta >= Toppo > Ultimate Gohan > = < 17.

P.S. Base Vegetto from the Boo arc is an ant at this point. Base Goku one shots him by the ToP.

First of all Goku one shotted him.

Secondly, does that mean Krillin and 18 are SsjB levels as well?

Also if he was SsjB level, why didn’t he hurt toppo? Who was supposedly the same level as Goku.

Gohan was at best ssjgod. Goku always plays with his food, sort of speak. If gohan was SsjB, he would have done better against toppo.

Those are Namekians were like I said high z levels. And Buu saga Vegito wouldn’t have been an ant during super. Most of the people at the tournament of power were probably (Namek) frieza to superbuu levels at best. The only people who were actually strong were bergamo, hit, kale, Anilaza, Kefla, toppo, Dyspo, ribreann, and Jiren. The rest were all fodder. As was most of the z warriors as well.

Well Goku used Kaioken. Gohan only rivaled SSB Goku so of course he will one shot him if he used it.

No? Goku used SSB only to test the participants of the ToP. He never went full power, not even with 17.

Because he's weaker than Toppo.

Base Vegetto was weaker than Super Boo with Gohan absorbed. Commenson Vegeta completely owned SS3 Gotenks like he was nothing. Vegetto from the Boo arc would need Super Saiyan to beat the base Saiyans by the ToP.

Goku never went all out with any of them. He plays around with people. Just because he went blue doesn’t mean they were equals. Gohan def got stronger but wasn’t anywhere near SsjB Goku. He was Dyspo level. Who was SsjG level.

But Goku was toppo’s equal before the tournament. Toppo wasn’t doing anything for most of the top. His only fight before 122, was against Vegeta and Vegeta overpowered him briefly. Like Goku did in exhibition match.

I didn’t mean base Vegito, I meant super Vegito. Sorry, I meant Ssj Vegito. That was my bad.

[RashFaustinho]

Doesn't Goku, in the manga, that 17 became "almost as strong as them"?

Also, doesn't Piccolo (or whatever, can't remeber which one, but it did happen) say that the strongest earthling is Gohan during the Moro Arc? Doesn't that place him above 17 and so Blue Tier?

[Koitsukai]

Doesn't Goku, in the manga, that 17 became "almost as strong as them"?

Also, doesn't Piccolo (or whatever, can't remeber which one, but it did happen) say that the strongest earthling is Gohan during the Moro Arc? Doesn't that place him above 17 and so Blue Tier?

Goku says that, but there's nothing backing that up, he can't feel his ki because 17 doesn't have one, only fought him as a SS3, and at the ToP, 17 only stalemated Dyspo. Either that statement is wrong and goes out the window like soooo many statements regarding Beerus, or he meant "them" as in the gang, considering 17 was fodder to them already by the Cell Games.

But yes, Gohan is said to be the strongest earthling, but he was already blue level when he stalemated Kefla.

[Hugo Boss]

Piccolo’s level in the anime is quite a headache, since he can beat SS2 Gohan before the ToP and at the same time pair with Base Gohan against Saonel and Pirina.

[Koitsukai]

I think we can safely say that Piccolo is treated without any kind of interest in both media. It's unclear where he stands in the anime and in the manga, there are some hints here and there, but he's not considered important enough to have a definite say on how strong he is.

[TobyS]

Piccolo’s level in the anime is quite a headache, since he can beat SS2 Gohan before the ToP and at the same time pair with Base Gohan against Saonel and Pirina.

He's clearly ultimate there's no way he's doing that well in base for the reasons you stated above.