Where Dragon Ball should have ended?

[JulieYBM]

The Namek arc's ending is baked into the same chapter as Freeza's return, too! Toriyama definitely wasn't planning on ending things quite yet.

[Hellspawn28]

I like how the manga ended. I'm not one of those people who wish that the series ended with Freeza or Cell.

[PurestEvil]

Dragon Ball's ending is fine. I may not like the Cell or Buu sagas much, but I honestly feel like the series would feel a lot more empty without the continuation.

[Majin Buu]

I like how the manga ended. I'm not one of those people who wish that the series ended with Freeza or Cell.

Same here.

I think the Buu arc going back to the more humorous, mystical tone of the early years gives the series a neat full-circle feel on a meta level that wouldn't have been there had the Cell arc been the final arc. And the parts where Toriyama is lampooning his own work feel like a more sincere summation of Dragon Ball on his part than playing everything 100% straight (by the darker and edgier action oriented standards of the Z era) could have.

[lancerman]

Freeza arc.

Goku's quest is always to get stronger and find the strongest opponents. First he can't beat his master, then he surpasses him, then he finally becomes the strongest human on the planet and is only surpassed by this ancient evil demon creature, he finally beats him in a tournament he couldn't win twice and proves himself as the strongest on the planet, then the series shifts to space and he becomes the strongest member of his alien race, and finally he faces off against the most powerful being the entire galaxy and attains a legendary status to overcome him and he finally fulfills his goals while sacraficing himself to purge the universe of it's worst tyrant and avenge his people and best friend.

Perfect ending. After that, the series really struggles to make Goku narratively fit. He just kinda meanders for the Android arc getting sick, then training but never really fighting anyone with it and just teleporting around. It's so obvious that by the time the big fight came arond Toriyama needed to subvert everything because Goku winning after the Freeza arc just did nothing. Even in the Boo arc they tried everything but Goku being the hero until they were out of options and then when they were forced to go to him they needed to make humanity the real hero for supplying energy. There was a really good throughline from the 22nd Tournament through the Freeza arc. Then there were no loose ends after Freeza

[MasenkoHA]

Perfect ending. After that, the series really struggles to make Goku narratively fit. He just kinda meanders for the Android arc getting sick, then training but never really fighting anyone with it and just teleporting around. It's so obvious that by the time the big fight came arond Toriyama needed to subvert everything because Goku winning after the Freeza arc just did nothing. Even in the Boo arc they tried everything but Goku being the hero until they were out of options and then when they were forced to go to him they needed to make humanity the real hero for supplying energy.

While I think the Boo arc is a much better ending I do agree it was becoming clear Toriyama was running out of ideas at what to do with Goku. Introducing the Strongest Under the Heavens Tournament gave Goku a goal to reach. Once he became Tenkaichi, Toriyama decided to explore Goku’s origins. But after that I don’t think Toriyama knew what to do hence giving more focus on Vegeta and Trunks and Piccolo before switching to Gohan as the new lead. After realizing scholar wasn’t a suitable lead in a martial arts series he put Goku back in the role and then ended it there.

There was a really good throughline from the 22nd Tournament through the Freeza arc. Then there were no loose ends after Freeza

There were no lose ends after the 23rd Tenkaichi Tournament either. All the loose ends being tied up in Freeza were all created in the Saiyan arc. 23rd Budokai, Freeza, Cell, and Boo all have definitive endings

[lancerman]

Perfect ending. After that, the series really struggles to make Goku narratively fit. He just kinda meanders for the Android arc getting sick, then training but never really fighting anyone with it and just teleporting around. It's so obvious that by the time the big fight came arond Toriyama needed to subvert everything because Goku winning after the Freeza arc just did nothing. Even in the Boo arc they tried everything but Goku being the hero until they were out of options and then when they were forced to go to him they needed to make humanity the real hero for supplying energy.

While I think the Boo arc is a much better ending I do agree it was becoming clear Toriyama was running out of ideas at what to do with Goku. Introducing the Strongest Under the Heavens Tournament gave Goku a goal to reach. Once he became Tenkaichi, Toriyama decided to explore Goku’s origins. But after that I don’t think Toriyama knew what to do hence giving more focus on Vegeta and Trunks and Piccolo before switching to Gohan as the new lead. After realizing scholar wasn’t a suitable lead in a martial arts series he put Goku back in the role and then ended it there.

There was a really good throughline from the 22nd Tournament through the Freeza arc. Then there were no loose ends after Freeza

There were no lose ends after the 23rd Tenkaichi Tournament either. All the loose ends being tied up in Freeza were all created in the Saiyan arc. 23rd Budokai, Freeza, Cell, and Boo all have definitive endings

When I say loose ends I mean things like Piccolo still existing and swearing vengeance and the whole foreign language thing that was totally an alien teaser between Kami and Piccolo. It could have ended there totally, but there was always that lingering question. If you ended the story right when Namek explodes or everyone getting wished back with the Dragon Balls in the Namek saga, there really isn't anything to keep it going from that point on. The 23rd Budokai is about as satisfying of an ending we had gotten for awhile up to that point, but Toriyama was clearly setting some seeds for what would come. He had to completely retool for the Cell and Boo arcs.

[Goku da Silva]

Freeza arc.

Goku's quest is always to get stronger and find the strongest opponents. First he can't beat his master, then he surpasses him, then he finally becomes the strongest human on the planet and is only surpassed by this ancient evil demon creature, he finally beats him in a tournament he couldn't win twice and proves himself as the strongest on the planet, then the series shifts to space and he becomes the strongest member of his alien race, and finally he faces off against the most powerful being the entire galaxy and attains a legendary status to overcome him and he finally fulfills his goals while sacraficing himself to purge the universe of it's worst tyrant and avenge his people and best friend.

Perfect ending. After that, the series really struggles to make Goku narratively fit. He just kinda meanders for the Android arc getting sick, then training but never really fighting anyone with it and just teleporting around. It's so obvious that by the time the big fight came arond Toriyama needed to subvert everything because Goku winning after the Freeza arc just did nothing. Even in the Boo arc they tried everything but Goku being the hero until they were out of options and then when they were forced to go to him they needed to make humanity the real hero for supplying energy. There was a really good throughline from the 22nd Tournament through the Freeza arc. Then there were no loose ends after Freeza

That's my point!

[Yosheets]

The Dragon Ball franchise (not just the series) should have stopped producing material after GT. Everything after that was honestly a shameless way to milk the cash cow.

As for the video games, the last video game should have been Budokai Tenkaichi 3.

[WittyUsername]

I think the Freeza arc could’ve served as a decent conclusion if it wasn’t so rushed at the end. As Julie pointed out, the same chapter where everything from Namek gets resolved is the same chapter that ends on a cliffhanger where Freeza is revealed to still be alive. In order for it to serve as a proper finale, the ending would need to be revised so that more time could be spent letting the characters breathe, and the Mecha Freeza reveal would need to be eliminated.

[dragondyle]

I just finished watching the entirety of DBZ and honestly, it should have ended at Cell. The Buu arc is an actual joke and definitely feels like the show was losing steam. Cell wrapped everything up so nicely: Goku realizing he's better off dead to keep villains away, his son taking up the mantle of hero to protect the future and there was just no logical step to take after that. It felt like every arc before transitioned so smoothly in each other but the Buu arc felt completely different. I actually kinda like the Buu arc as a precursor to what Super's doing much better right now and exploring the god hierarchy in the Dragon World.

[BWri]

It should've taken a long break after Cell. That would've worked. The Buu arc really should've felt as crazy, new, foreign, and fresh as the Saiyan arc did from the 23 TB arc. More time had passed after all and the status quo was majorly different from the start of Z. Perhaps the anime could've even been rebranded. A softer more cartoonish look for the logo and intro to represent the series going back to its comedic roots, along with the slice of life stuff and the childish nature of Majin Buu. I think the time off would have given AT the time and distance to avoid the burnout that he ended up suffering and may have contributed to more well thought out ideas.

So I think the 23rd TB acts as the perfect ending for that act of the story. Cell acts as the next one, and finally I feel another arc after Buu, establishing the next generation would have been the perfect way to end the original run of the manga.

That said ... I'm happy with what we got. Buu added a lot to the series. It cemented some of the series bad tendencies for sure, but I think the good outweighs the bad.

[Jamtia]

It really could have ended anywhere honestly.

TB23.
Freeza because Goku's story.
Cell because it passed the torch to Gohan and Goku was finished on Earth.
Buu because of its ending to.
GT with its ending even if its noncanon.

But I'm fine that we all got what we got. Now with Super going on that's another question for another day.

[Majin Buu]

After thinking about this more, the Cell arc works as a good conclusion to the Z part of the story. In some respects, it's the real end of the Z era.

Conversely, I think the Buu arc works better as a conclusion to the complete Dragon Ball story. From the actual beginning of the story to the end. Returning to the style of early Dragon Ball and the self-parody aspects work better when you have the context of what Dragon Ball was like before the Z stuff.

I think BWri is on to something in that the Buu arc is fundamentally different enough from the previous 3 Z arcs that perhaps the anime should have rebranded it as something else without the Z to emphasize that. Much like how the Battle of Gods and Resurrection F films are officially branded Z but are for all intents and purposes the trial runs for Super.

[precita]

I just finished watching the entirety of DBZ and honestly, it should have ended at Cell. The Buu arc is an actual joke and definitely feels like the show was losing steam. Cell wrapped everything up so nicely: Goku realizing he's better off dead to keep villains away, his son taking up the mantle of hero to protect the future and there was just no logical step to take after that. It felt like every arc before transitioned so smoothly in each other but the Buu arc felt completely different. I actually kinda like the Buu arc as a precursor to what Super's doing much better right now and exploring the god hierarchy in the Dragon World.

The Boo arc bringing back the comedic aspect of Dragon Ball was kind of the point though. Boo spends most of his time in all forms being a silly comedic villain (as Fat Boo, Super Boo before absorbing the saiyans, and Kid Boo), and Gohan (Saiyaman) and Trunks/Goten and Gotenks were part of it.

But the best part of the Boo arc was how it expanded the lore. We finally saw all the other Kai's. We learned about Supreme Kai and how all the Gods work. We learned more about the afterlife. We learned Boo was (at the time) the strongest being of Universe 7. People really overlook how prior to the Boo arc how "limited" our view of the lore of Dragon Ball was up to the end of Cell. We just knew about North Kai and that's it.

[Brodes]

The Dragon Ball franchise (not just the series) should have stopped producing material after GT. Everything after that was honestly a shameless way to milk the cash cow.

What, you think GT was created for pure artistic reasons?

(As for video games, nope, that would rob us of Fighterz and even Xenoverse 2.)

I've never been hugely fond of the Buu saga, so selfishly ending it for good after Cells defeat would have suited me, but really, as others have said most of the sagas could make a good, definitive ending, though I have started to think over the past few years, ending it after Namek would have been a poor choice.

[Majin Buu]

People really overlook how prior to the Boo arc how "limited" our view of the lore of Dragon Ball was up to the end of Cell.

It's a symptom of how people (at least in the West) generally overlook the good things the Buu arc does (in this case, expanding the series' lore, an aspect I also appreciate about it) in favor of overstating its flaws.

[Koitsukai]

I never had a problem with the lore as established by the Cell saga. The afterlife is a bureaucracy, the gods aren't really remarkable, Freeza was THE thing, and Cell was a mixture of all the main known races, defeated by the son of the legendary SS.
It does look limited with all the stuff introduced later, and I love the new lore, Kaioshin, Hakaishin, more powerful people althroughout the universe, and I wouldn't change any of it, but on its own, the pre-Buu lore isn't bad or anything like that, to me.

[precita]

The problem is Cell is pretty limited lore wise since he was created by a human on Earth, and other than him having cells of Freeza and Saiyans, he's nothing too important in the grand scheme of things. Supreme Kai didn't care about him and he was a blip on the radar compared to Freeza and Boo.

Having a grand cosmic threat that even Gods were scared of like Majin Boo really raised the stakes and felt like the perfect way to end DBZ at the time.

[DBZAOTA482]

It should've ended during the Boo arc only with Gohan as the new protagonist as originally intended.

The problem is Cell is pretty limited lore wise since he was created by a human on Earth, and other than him having cells of Freeza and Saiyans, he's nothing too important in the grand scheme of things. Supreme Kai didn't care about him and he was a blip on the radar compared to Freeza and Boo.

Having a grand cosmic threat that even Gods were scared of like Majin Boo really raised the stakes and felt like the perfect way to end DBZ at the time.

Cell was only alive for like a week so he never got time to be a universal problem.