"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[UpFromTheSkies]

The new form has grown on me, especially after seeing his entire body, he looks really beastly and ape like, which is probably the point of the design. I'm hoping the final transformation brings his tail back, and maybe adds some fangs

[ssj3kakarot]

I'm curious how this new form compares to MUI Goku. It would seem unfitting that Vegeta does better for a few reasons. 1) He just go this form, 2) Goku has had MUI for a few arcs now and should have better mastery on it 3) Whis and all the GoDs of Destruction have hyped Ultra Instinct as being this super duper awesome Bojangles state/transformation since the ToP.

So if Vegeta has surpassed Goku, but really, the concept of MUI, i think it's poor writing. Obviously Goku needs and should be surpassed, its just how they go about doing it. But if Vegeta doesn't do well, then it feels like a crappy power up for the guy. I swear though if Vegeta is whooping ass and then is all like " Ohhh noooooooo, my stamina, this form is so taxing..blah blah" I hate that these days.

[Tai Lung]

I know this a joke but so many people expected Vegeta’s destruction to be the same as Toppo’s even though that was an anime only thing.

Anyways personally I think he is meant to resemble a caveman/Ape man which does harken back to his Saiyan heritage.

Though I have seen some people say he is meant to look Beerus. That doesn’t entirely make sense to me since it’s not like all Destructions Gods look the same. But that could also be what Toyo was going for.


Edit: As for people saying this is for merchandise sales nothing in the manga has been merchandised.

According to the spoilers and the context, the transformation is linked to Hakaishin and it has nothing to do with the saiyans ...
the fans are misinterpreting the words of beerrus about the saiyans only thinking about destruction which is why for vegeta it is easier to achieve it ...
This is more of a reference to Anime TOP when Toppo forgot justice and concentrated on destroying

Piccolo would fit better God Mode

If you read the actual translation he specifically mentions the Blood of Saiyans flows in me DIRECTLY before transforming. He then says the God of Destruction taught me this. And for a Power driven on instinct there is no limit to what I can do.

Other than that we know nothing about what this new form can and can’t do and whether Vegeta’s transformation here is linked to him being Saiyan or it’s a specific God of Destruction transformation.

Vegeta’s new form though has nothing to do with Anime Toppo because that was ONLY in the anime and there is no reference to it in the manga.

why would beerus know something about the saiyan when he didn't know anything about the SSJ God ...? beerus is not a saiyan and he knows hakai
Ultra instinct is related to angels, not saiyans
You are taking the "blood" out of context, everything related to the Saiyans is in relation to the personality of these who think about destroying but is not related to them ...
God of destruction mode + Hakai + training with a Hakaishin etc
is a clear reference

[Kinokima]

I'm curious how this new form compares to MUI Goku. It would seem unfitting that Vegeta does better for a few reasons. 1) He just go this form, 2) Goku has had MUI for a few arcs now and should have better mastery on it 3) Whis and all the GoDs of Destruction have hyped Ultra Instinct as being this super duper awesome Bojangles state/transformation since the ToP.

So if Vegeta has surpassed Goku, but really, the concept of MUI, i think it's poor writing. Obviously Goku needs and should be surpassed, its just how they go about doing it. But if Vegeta doesn't do well, then it feels like a crappy power up for the guy. I swear though if Vegeta is whooping ass and then is all like " Ohhh noooooooo, my stamina, this form is so taxing..blah blah" I hate that these days.

I doubt Vegeta has topped MUI just like that but maybe in certain circumstances Destruction can beat UI. Things aren’t always the most powerful wins.

Also Goku’s UI did not lose against Granolah. It ran out and Granolah tricked him with a clone.

[DiscountDabi]

I'm curious how this new form compares to MUI Goku. It would seem unfitting that Vegeta does better for a few reasons. 1) He just go this form, 2) Goku has had MUI for a few arcs now and should have better mastery on it 3) Whis and all the GoDs of Destruction have hyped Ultra Instinct as being this super duper awesome Bojangles state/transformation since the ToP.

So if Vegeta has surpassed Goku, but really, the concept of MUI, i think it's poor writing. Obviously Goku needs and should be surpassed, its just how they go about doing it. But if Vegeta doesn't do well, then it feels like a crappy power up for the guy. I swear though if Vegeta is whooping ass and then is all like " Ohhh noooooooo, my stamina, this form is so taxing..blah blah" I hate that these days.

I doubt Vegeta has topped MUI just like tha lt but maybe in certain circumstances Destruction can beat UI. Things aren’t always the most powerful wins.

Also Goku’s UI did not lose against Granolah. It ran out and Granolah tricked him with a clone.

Well when Granolah hit him he was still in Ultra Instinct, he got knocked out of it and then punched him away.

And in the Moro arc we know that UI Grants a boost in physical durability. So Granolah absolutely is Stronger than Goku. Maybe not faster, but stronger yes.

[Kinokima]

According to the spoilers and the context, the transformation is linked to Hakaishin and it has nothing to do with the saiyans ...
the fans are misinterpreting the words of beerrus about the saiyans only thinking about destruction which is why for vegeta it is easier to achieve it ...
This is more of a reference to Anime TOP when Toppo forgot justice and concentrated on destroying

Piccolo would fit better God Mode

If you read the actual translation he specifically mentions the Blood of Saiyans flows in me DIRECTLY before transforming. He then says the God of Destruction taught me this. And for a Power driven on instinct there is no limit to what I can do.

Other than that we know nothing about what this new form can and can’t do and whether Vegeta’s transformation here is linked to him being Saiyan or it’s a specific God of Destruction transformation.

Vegeta’s new form though has nothing to do with Anime Toppo because that was ONLY in the anime and there is no reference to it in the manga.

why would beerus know something about the saiyan when he didn't know anything about the SSJ God ...? beerus is not a saiyan and he knows hakai
Ultra instinct is related to angels, not saiyans
You are taking the "blood" out of context, everything related to the Saiyans is in relation to the personality of these who think about destroying but is not related to them ...
God of destruction mode + Hakai + training with a Hakaishin etc
is a clear reference

I am not arguing that Hakai is related to Saiyans. I am saying the transformation that Vegeta is undergoing may be related to him being a Saiyan using Hakai not something that typically happens to A God of Destruction.

[Tai Lung]

If you read the actual translation he specifically mentions the Blood of Saiyans flows in me DIRECTLY before transforming. He then says the God of Destruction taught me this. And for a Power driven on instinct there is no limit to what I can do.

Other than that we know nothing about what this new form can and can’t do and whether Vegeta’s transformation here is linked to him being Saiyan or it’s a specific God of Destruction transformation.

Vegeta’s new form though has nothing to do with Anime Toppo because that was ONLY in the anime and there is no reference to it in the manga.

why would beerus know something about the saiyan when he didn't know anything about the SSJ God ...? beerus is not a saiyan and he knows hakai
Ultra instinct is related to angels, not saiyans
You are taking the "blood" out of context, everything related to the Saiyans is in relation to the personality of these who think about destroying but is not related to them ...
God of destruction mode + Hakai + training with a Hakaishin etc
is a clear reference

I am not arguing that Hakai is related to Saiyans. I am saying the transformation that Vegeta is undergoing may be related to him being a Saiyan using Hakai not something that typically happens to A God of Destruction.

but beerus also transforms with the Ultra instinct ... "Eyes" I don't think it's closely related

[TheMikado]

Piccolo would have made a much better Hakaishin.

[OLKv3]

When's the last time this thread was so active?

[Tai Lung]

Piccolo would have made a much better Hakaishin.

yes!!!

more original

[ssj3kakarot]

Piccolo would have made a much better Hakaishin.

Furthermore, it would be a great way to make Piccolo relavent again. Make something up about the Namekian Book of Legends, and Zalama, and poof, you have a reasonable plot as to why Piccolo could be back in the game other than " he trained super duper hard for 2 days."

[ZodiacBeast]

Piccolo would have made a much better Hakaishin.

Furthermore, it would be a great way to make Piccolo relavent again. Make something up about the Namekian Book of Legends, and Zalama, and poof, you have a reasonable plot as to why Piccolo could be back in the game other than " he trained super duper hard for 2 days."

I wish Piccolo and Gohan would join the "God Club". I feel they both deserve it.

Vegeta gaining "Destroyer" powers doesn't feel out of place to me though.

[Yuji]

I'll make a neutral observation: Vegeta gaining God of Destruction powers feels uncharacteristic of Toriyama. Considering how in-line it is with the fandom's wishes, it comes across as a predictable development, one I wouldn't doubt was suggested by Toyotarou, who generally seems very in-touch with what the fandom wants and theorizes about. Toriyama himself is a lot more subversive, and this coupled with the fact that Beerus mentoring Vegeta had never been a proper plot beat in any arc previously (outside of their battle in the beginning of the ToP, but once again that strikes me as a Toyotarou development), it leads me to believe Toyotarou has a very big hand in the writing of this arc and, possibly, of Dragon Ball going forward.

[Jack Bz]

I'll make a neutral observation: Vegeta gaining God of Destruction powers feels uncharacteristic of Toriyama. Considering how in-line it is with the fandom's wishes, it comes across as a predictable development, one I wouldn't doubt was suggested by Toyotarou, who generally seems very in-touch with what the fandom wants and theorizes about. Toriyama himself is a lot more subversive, and this coupled with the fact that Beerus mentoring Vegeta had never been a proper plot beat in any arc previously (outside of their battle in the beginning of the ToP, but once again that strikes me as a Toyotarou development), it leads me to believe Toyotarou has a very big hand in the writing of this arc and, possibly, of Dragon Ball going forward.

I agree with this...but I'm not very neutral about it. I don't want to be too reactionary considering the chapter isn't out yet, but I have not been the biggest fan of this whole "Vegeta learns hakai" development from the start. I think giving Vegeta destruction powers and his own god of destruction form is the most obvious route they could have gone down post-Moro to get him up to speed with Goku, it has happened lightning fast, and I wish they didn't feel such an ever present need to have Vegeta and Goku be equals. This doesn't seem like Toriyama's idea to me and really reminds me strongly of Toppo in the anime ToP more than anything else. A lot of people from other circles are happy with it because now it's Vegeta's "time to shine". Just doesn't sit right with me at all so far

I had wrongfully dismissed those leaks earlier because it was written like a fan's wet dream. I think it would also be easier for me to warm to the idea of the form if it didn't look... like it does.

[DiscountDabi]

Piccolo would have made a much better Hakaishin.

yes!!!

Spoiler:

more original

Gonna have to disagree. Piccolo isn't really suited for Destruction. Maybe he used to be but definetly not anymore. Ever since he fused with Kami atleast, he's been more mellow and wise. Some Namekian God form or something from the Namekian Book of Legends would be cool.

Or Like How this arc mentioned that Namekians aren't from Universe 7 perhaps something with that. But Piccolo is definetly not suited for Destruction.

[pepd]

Just another speculative coloring:

Spoiler:

[TheMikado]

Just another speculative coloring:

Spoiler:

That just looks like UI Omen

[TheMikado]

Piccolo would have made a much better Hakaishin.

yes!!!

Spoiler:

more original

Gonna have to disagree. Piccolo isn't really suited for Destruction. Maybe he used to be but definetly not anymore. Ever since he fused with Kami atleast, he's been more mellow and wise. Some Namekian God form or something from the Namekian Book of Legends would be cool.

Or Like How this arc mentioned that Namekians aren't from Universe 7 perhaps something with that. But Piccolo is definetly not suited for Destruction.

Right so he would actually be good at his job like some of the other universes. Toppo proves you can be pretty uptight or justice minded and still achieve destroyer status and power.

[TheMikado]

I'll make a neutral observation: Vegeta gaining God of Destruction powers feels uncharacteristic of Toriyama. Considering how in-line it is with the fandom's wishes, it comes across as a predictable development, one I wouldn't doubt was suggested by Toyotarou, who generally seems very in-touch with what the fandom wants and theorizes about. Toriyama himself is a lot more subversive, and this coupled with the fact that Beerus mentoring Vegeta had never been a proper plot beat in any arc previously (outside of their battle in the beginning of the ToP, but once again that strikes me as a Toyotarou development), it leads me to believe Toyotarou has a very big hand in the writing of this arc and, possibly, of Dragon Ball going forward.

I agree with this...but I'm not very neutral about it. I don't want to be too reactionary considering the chapter isn't out yet, but I have not been the biggest fan of this whole "Vegeta learns hakai" development from the start. I think giving Vegeta destruction powers and his own god of destruction form is the most obvious route they could have gone down post-Moro to get him up to speed with Goku, it has happened lightning fast, and I wish they didn't feel such an ever present need to have Vegeta and Goku be equals. This doesn't seem like Toriyama's idea to me and really reminds me strongly of Toppo in the anime ToP more than anything else. A lot of people from other circles are happy with it because now it's Vegeta's "time to shine". Just doesn't sit right with me at all so far

I had wrongfully dismissed those leaks earlier because it was written like a fan's wet dream. I think it would also be easier for me to warm to the idea of the form if it didn't look... like it does.

I really despise the placing the blame on Toyotarou. At the end of the day Toriyama allows it for better or for worse. If anything, and if it wasn’t Toriyama’s idea, then it’s even more his fault for not caring enough to end the story properly rather than let it continue to drag on like this.

[DiscountDabi]

yes!!!

Spoiler:

more original

Gonna have to disagree. Piccolo isn't really suited for Destruction. Maybe he used to be but definetly not anymore. Ever since he fused with Kami atleast, he's been more mellow and wise. Some Namekian God form or something from the Namekian Book of Legends would be cool.

Or Like How this arc mentioned that Namekians aren't from Universe 7 perhaps something with that. But Piccolo is definetly not suited for Destruction.

Right so he would actually be good at his job like some of the other universes. Toppo proves you can be pretty uptight or justice minded and still achieve destroyer status and power.

Not without the sacrifice of those ideals and personality. Jiren even called him pathetic and vegeta had a whole speech about throwing away who you are for power is nonesense.

Do you really want that for piccolo? Piccolo being important again is great and all but not at the cost of his character.