What Retcon Would You Undo *Or* Tweak?

[ABED]

Did we see any of the same audience or fighters from the previous tournaments at the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai? Given he won the 24th tournament, the level of competition severely declined. The one person we see from the past is the tournament announcer who DOES in fact remember. It's also pretty much guaranteed that since it's about 15 years later and the entire island has been rebuilt, it's likely no one in that crowd saw those previous tournaments.

I think Mr. Satan was already a celebrity by the time he won the 24th Tenkaichi Budokai and he is a fame whore.

[BWri]

Did we see any of the same audience or fighters from the previous tournaments at the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai? Given he won the 24th tournament, the level of competition severely declined. The one person we see from the past is the tournament announcer who DOES in fact remember. Given that it's about 15 years later and the entire island has been rebuilt, it's likely no one in that crowd saw those previous tournaments.

I think Mr. Satan was already a celebrity by the time he won the 24th Tenkaichi Budokai and he is a fame whore.

This is pretty much how I thought of it. It's similar to how old school wrestling territories worked in real life before the WWF/WWE came along. Before they got the exposure from national TV, most people didn't know who the biggest wrestlers were outside of the local attendees.

I do still think it would be more fun if at least some of the audience knew about the previous tournaments.

[super michael]

Another retcon I would like is Goten and Trunks not being forbidden in DBS by their family and being allowed to fight enemies, help their team and train with powerful fighters.

[Jack Bz]

Goku no longer being the saviour of a planet he was meant to conquer will always sting a little bit

While in most ways I am a fan of super as a whole, most of the retcons of the revival just leave a sour taste. There was some really unnecessary shoehorning of Beerus into past Dragon Ball lore when he was introduced.

[MasenkoHA]

Another retcon I would like is Goten and Trunks not being forbidden in DBS by their family and being allowed to fight enemies, help their team and train with powerful fighters.

That’s not a retcon

[super michael]

Another retcon I would like is Goten and Trunks not being forbidden in DBS by their family and being allowed to fight enemies, help their team and train with powerful fighters.

That’s not a retcon

Actually that is a retcon, since in the Buu Saga they were never forbidden to fight and train before money was involved, after money was involved and after the villains appeared. In Yo Son Goku they were cheared to battle and incase Yo Son Goku ova isn't canon there is BoG which they were able to battle as Gotenks without any problems.

Then comes RoF and it is forbidden nation, then their family always forbid.

Another retcon I would avoid them doing is changing Future Trunks hair to blue.

[MasenkoHA]

Another retcon I would like is Goten and Trunks not being forbidden in DBS by their family and being allowed to fight enemies, help their team and train with powerful fighters.

That’s not a retcon

Actually that is a retcon, since in the Buu Saga they were never forbidden to fight and train before money was involved, after money was involved and after the villains appeared. In Yo Son Goku they were cheared to battle and incase Yo Son Goku ova isn't canon there is BoG which they were able to battle as Gotenks without any problems.

Then comes RoF and it is forbidden nation, then their family always forbid.

Again not a retcon. The series didn’t decide using Goten and Trunks as fighters in the Boo arc never happened.

Super also made it clear the characters are reacting to the boys fucks up in Boo. “They screwed around and now they can’t be trusted to take things seriously”

[ABED]

Actually that's not a retcon. Bulma and Chichi were fine with their sons fighting in friendly tournaments but not against the adults or in life endangering situations. The only reason they were mildly okay with Gotenks fighting Buu is because there was no one else.

The blue hair is a retcon because the narrative is treating it like that was always the case.

A retcon is an inconsistency the story treats as having always been there. It can be something as small as the change of an apartment number or color of a character's hair. Or it can be something major like the motivation for sending Goku away.

[super michael]

That’s not a retcon

Actually that is a retcon, since in the Buu Saga they were never forbidden to fight and train before money was involved, after money was involved and after the villains appeared. In Yo Son Goku they were cheared to battle and incase Yo Son Goku ova isn't canon there is BoG which they were able to battle as Gotenks without any problems.

Then comes RoF and it is forbidden nation, then their family always forbid.

Again not a retcon. The series didn’t decide using Goten and Trunks as fighters in the Boo arc never happened.

Super also made it clear the characters are reacting to the boys fucks up in Boo. “They screwed around and now they can’t be trusted to take things seriously”

Goten and Trunks fusing counts as them fighting.

That is a bad reason for them not to fight in DBS. Because they screwed up, then tell me why is Vegeta the 2nd main character who fights? He scewed up in the Cell Saga and the Buu Saga. Heck Vegeta was the main reason why Cell got his perfect form and why Buu got revived in the first place. Then to add cherry Vegeta destroys the Potara twice.

There is a thing called character development.

Actually that's not a retcon. Bulma and Chichi were fine with their sons fighting in friendly tournaments but not against the adults or in life endangering situations. The only reason they were mildly okay with Gotenks fighting Buu is because there was no one else.

The blue hair is a retcon because the narrative is treating it like that was always the case.

A retcon is an inconsistency the story treats as having always been there. It can be something as small as the change of an apartment number or color of a character's hair. Or it can be something major like the motivation for sending Goku away.

Well in Yo Son Goku ova Chi Chi and Bulma didn't have a problem with them fighting evil, even though stronger fighters were available.
There is BoG which Bulma and Chi Chi never stopped Goten and Trunks from fusing and battling Beerus.

In DBS Anime it is wrong for Goten to spar with Goku his own father. It is wrong for him to chase his dream to get strong by training with Whis and Goku.

Goku putting more faith in Krillin and Freeza over Goten and Trunks doesn't make sense.

[Majin Buu]

In the past I've complained about the recton of Buu's origins, but I've recently come to accept it. It not only fleshes out Buu's backstory by addressing why he's evil in the first place, but it also makes his origin more unique from Cell's by making him an almost eldritch-like entity instead of being someone else's creation like Cell was (which takes some steam out of the whole "Buu's just a lame retread of Cell" criticism).

The retcon I still don't like is the frequently cited one connecting Beerus to Freeza's genocide of the Saiyans. I'd either undo it entirely or at least make it explicit that he had no actual involvement in it and simply liked what Freeza did. Not only would it insert him into this piece of existing lore far less awkwardly, but it would also better serve as subtle foreshadowing of how Beerus is actually bad at his job by having him gleefully give the thumbs up to someone effectively doing his job for him.

I also don't like the Potara retcon. I liked that the Potara fusion was an actual sacrifice because it was a permeant fusion and that the only reason it wasn't for Goku and Vegeta was sheer dumb luck. I'd either remove it as well or tweak it so that the time limit is the result of Vegetto just being that ridiculously broken rather than the time limit actually just being a thing for mortals. Vegetto's defining trait is that he's ridiculously overpowered so just play into that by making him so broken that he bends the rules of godly magic.

[MasenkoHA]

.

That is a bad reason for them not to fight in DBS. Because they screwed up, then tell me why is Vegeta the 2nd main character who fights? He scewed up in the Cell Saga and the Buu Saga. Heck Vegeta was the main reason why Cell got his perfect form and why Buu got revived in the first place. Then to add cherry Vegeta destroys the Potara twice.

*facepalm* Vegeta is a grown adult. Who the hell is going to tell him he can’t go somewhere?

There is a thing called character development.

There is a thing called “these two kids fucked around when we trusted them to defeat Boo so we’re not about to depend on them when the universe is at stake”

Well in Yo Son Goku ova Chi Chi and Bulma didn't have a problem with them fighting evil, even though stronger fighters were available.

The villains were a joke. They sent Goten and Trunks after them because how little they took them seriously. This wasn’t some high stakes tournament.

There is BoG which Bulma and Chi Chi never stopped Goten and Trunks from fusing and battling Beerus.

How exactly were they going to stop a spur of a moment thing? No one but Vegeta anticipated Beerus attacking them. They were all charging at him.

In DBS Anime it is wrong for Goten to spar with Goku his own father. It is wrong for him to chase his dream to get strong by training with Whis and Goku.

What dreams? The ending of the manga had it so Goten lost all interest in martial arts as a teenager and just wanted to go on dates. He has no dream of getting stronger he just wants to have fun.

Goku putting more faith in Krillin and Freeza over Goten and Trunks doesn't make sense.

Kuririn is far more dependable. The Freeza thing was stupid but Goku could count on Freeza not fucking around if his existence was at stake.

.

I also don't like the Potara retcon. I liked that the Potara fusion was an actual sacrifice because it was a permeant fusion and that the only reason it wasn't for Goku and Vegeta was sheer dumb luck.

It’s not exactly a sacrifice if it conveniently gets undone. I prefer the retcon because it’s no longer “We made a big deal out of the fusion being permanent when it got undone by uhhh Boo’s gastrointestinal system?


Besides the real sacrifice was Vegeta’s pride in having to fuse with Goku at all. He didn’t even know it was permanent until the last second and he already agreed to it. It’s not like he wouldn’t have put up a resistance if there had been an established time limit.

[Skar]

I would remove most retcons especially if it only involves deleting one line and doesn't affect the story. It's been so many years since the original that it's hard to tell if a retcon is intentional or Toriyama forget something and the explanation he gives ends up being a retcon. I'm a big fan but I always forget details so if I was tasked with writing a sequel then I might be guilty of some unintentional retcons.

[jjgp1112]

Goten and Trunks fusing counts as them fighting.

That is a bad reason for them not to fight in DBS. Because they screwed up, then tell me why is Vegeta the 2nd main character who fights? He scewed up in the Cell Saga and the Buu Saga. Heck Vegeta was the main reason why Cell got his perfect form and why Buu got revived in the first place. Then to add cherry Vegeta destroys the Potara twice.

There is a thing called character development.

What are they gonna do, tell Vegeta he can't fight?

[Cipher]

I would undo the existence of the Room of Spirit and Time even though its use in the Boo arc is very good and also I wouldn’t actually undo it, but holy hell is its whole existence (and having apparently been a known entity since back before the 23rd) kind of something you have to not think too hard about.

[ZeroNeonix]

Giving a time limit to Potara fusion was stupid. It took away the one thing that made it distinct from Metamoran fusion. The latter can be performed in any situation and has no permanent consequences for its use. The former was stronger, but could only be used with Potara earrings present, and it was supposed to be permanent. Meaning the fusees would lose their individual personalities, so there was a cost to using it.

Of course, they don't want Goku and Vegeta to stay fused forever. That wouldn't be ideal. So why not retcon how Potara fusion works so we can get Super Saiyan Blue Vegito? I'll tell you why, because Dragon Ball Super already established that Potara fusion can be undone with Dragon Balls! The Supreme Kai used the balls to unfuse with Kibito! So at the end of the arc, summon the dragon and unfuse. Problem solved. ...Or we can just turn Potara fusion into Metamoran fusion, but with jewelry. Whatever.

[Hellspawn28]

Fixing the Dragon Ball wishes would be nice too.

[super michael]

.

That is a bad reason for them not to fight in DBS. Because they screwed up, then tell me why is Vegeta the 2nd main character who fights? He scewed up in the Cell Saga and the Buu Saga. Heck Vegeta was the main reason why Cell got his perfect form and why Buu got revived in the first place. Then to add cherry Vegeta destroys the Potara twice.

*facepalm* Vegeta is a grown adult. Who the hell is going to tell him he can’t go somewhere?

There is a thing called character development.

There is a thing called “these two kids fucked around when we trusted them to defeat Boo so we’re not about to depend on them when the universe is at stake”

Well in Yo Son Goku ova Chi Chi and Bulma didn't have a problem with them fighting evil, even though stronger fighters were available.

The villains were a joke. They sent Goten and Trunks after them because how little they took them seriously. This wasn’t some high stakes tournament.

There is BoG which Bulma and Chi Chi never stopped Goten and Trunks from fusing and battling Beerus.

How exactly were they going to stop a spur of a moment thing? No one but Vegeta anticipated Beerus attacking them. They were all charging at him.

In DBS Anime it is wrong for Goten to spar with Goku his own father. It is wrong for him to chase his dream to get strong by training with Whis and Goku.

What dreams? The ending of the manga had it so Goten lost all interest in martial arts as a teenager and just wanted to go on dates. He has no dream of getting stronger he just wants to have fun.

Goku putting more faith in Krillin and Freeza over Goten and Trunks doesn't make sense.

Kuririn is far more dependable. The Freeza thing was stupid but Goku could count on Freeza not fucking around if his existence was at stake.

.

I also don't like the Potara retcon. I liked that the Potara fusion was an actual sacrifice because it was a permeant fusion and that the only reason it wasn't for Goku and Vegeta was sheer dumb luck.

It’s not exactly a sacrifice if it conveniently gets undone. I prefer the retcon because it’s no longer “We made a big deal out of the fusion being permanent when it got undone by uhhh Boo’s gastrointestinal system?


Besides the real sacrifice was Vegeta’s pride in having to fuse with Goku at all. He didn’t even know it was permanent until the last second and he already agreed to it. It’s not like he wouldn’t have put up a resistance if there had been an established time limit.

Vegeta still acted like a spoiled brat, who didn't hesitate to attack his own ally due to his ally wanting to kill Cell.
Buu was resurrected thanks to Vegeta being childish, despite being a adult.
Vegeta gets chances.

Goten and Trunks mess around against Super Buu, but he never helps his enemies. They should be given chances, but yet they get 0 chances.

Mr Buu was the cause of BoG, was unreliable in RoF, U6 Vs U7 and Top, but he gets unlimited chances.

DBS anime says Goten wants to get super strong, as for manga it is no wonder Goten becomes a slacker when he is forbidden.

In the manga Krillin got one hit ring out, how is that useful.
They give everyone chance to prove themselves, but only Goten and Trunks are excluded.

Edit Goten and Trunks are teenagers in DBS.

[Jack Bz]

I would undo the existence of the Room of Spirit and Time even though its use in the Boo arc is very good and also I wouldn’t actually undo it, but holy hell is its whole existence (and having apparently been a known entity since back before the 23rd) kind of something you have to not think too hard about.

Oh yeah, agreed on all fronts. I've thought before that it would have made sense to have it be a place on Yardrat, but then it'd be more difficult to have it play a role in the boo arc (which is its most interesting use for sure).

Interesting that Super expands the concept by having there just be...other ones. Like the one Goku and Merus train in during the Moro arc is similar to the point where Goku immediately just knows what it is by its design.

[Cipher]

Oh yeah, agreed on all fronts. I've thought before that it would have made sense to have it be a place on Yardrat, but then it'd be more difficult to have it play a role in the boo arc (which is its most interesting use for sure).

Interesting that Super expands the concept by having there just be...other ones. Like the one Goku and Merus train in during the Moro arc is similar to the point where Goku immediately just knows what it is by its design.

I like the expansion of it in Super.

It is what it is, but it certainly stands out as one of the more glaring major retroactive additions in the series, considering it comes immediately after two portions of the story in which everyone is training on a very specific timeframe to prepare for a new threat, and no one has every heard of it and Goku had never thought to propose it. It also raises a hell of a lot of questions considering the main McGuffins of the series are themselves limited by an annual usage restriction, which you just have to kind of put out of mind or justify as having never being particularly useful before or after (even though that's ... kind of a stretch).

Oh, also, re: thread: It's minor, but something I genuinely would change: Cleaning up the rules and wish count on Dende's renewed Dragon Balls, also giving Bulma a better justification for why she absolutely needs the Dragon Radar from Capsule Corp. in the Boo arc, considering she's built them from scratch at multiple prior points in the series. For the Dragon Balls, I'd probably just maintain the two-wish count as established in the Cell arc (since the three-wishes flub/retcon is never actually a relevant, used count in either the remainder of DB or Super), and keep that consistent in Super as well (which I believe would just require adding an extra wish to the end of Broly? Easy enough, as was done in "F"; could even have Cheelai and Lemo use the second to escape). This is more light continuity clean-up, really.

[Majin Buu]

It’s not exactly a sacrifice if it conveniently gets undone. I prefer the retcon because it’s no longer “We made a big deal out of the fusion being permanent when it got undone by uhhh Boo’s gastrointestinal system?

At the time the characters had no reason to expect that it would be undone, so I think it works as a sacrifice in the moment and in turn makes the dumb luck nature of the split work by making it a a happy accident; emphasizing that it would have been permanent had Vegetto literally done anything else but let himself get absorbed. I always liked that aspect of it and the retcon takes that away.

I also never had a problem with the explanation of Buu's insides just being weird as the reason they split. He's a magical being so it makes sense to me that his magical insides could mess up the Potara's rules.

Besides the real sacrifice was Vegeta’s pride in having to fuse with Goku at all. He didn’t even know it was permanent until the last second and he already agreed to it. It’s not like he wouldn’t have put up a resistance if there had been an established time limit.

This is all true, but I don't think that makes it any less of a sacrifice on his part, just a more uninformed one; and I personally don't see him refusing to do it even if he had known beforehand that it was permanent given the severity of the situation (especially considering King Enma kept him from being erased in Hell specifically for the purpose of dealing with Buu). He would have put up the same resistance to it for sure, but I think he would have still acquiesced to it in the end.