"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[picc]

You really think any of that is going to stop AT from making Freeza powerful enough to be a threat if it fits his story?

No.

I hate it too, brother. Just have learned to accept it.

At least he's not as bad as the anime. If AT's power scaling is questionable, the anime team's is literally braindead. If I'm ever feeling upset about the way things are going in the manga I can always watch an episode of Super to remind me things aren't actually that bad.

[MCDaveG]

Frieza could stay out of this arc...because he's gathering his strength and preparing for the next arc.

Yes please, Freeza 4th Coming!

And I don't include GT and Movie 12 of course which I consider as side stories...
Freeza became Orochimaru pretty much and he was the reason why I stopped watching Naruto back in the days.
He was interesting, menacing and compelling villain at first but after him being basicly the only recurring one, it got boring
and sure, bringing Freeza back for Ressurection F was a novelty, if it wasn't for the already mentioned movie and GT and I started to like him again in Tournament of Power, which was actually pretty fresh, to make him part of the hero team, but now it's Freeza there somewhere, sure, he is strong, he can make trouble, but is he really a trouble for the main guys? Not by a stretch...

I start to feel that Toyotaro is tasked to do the manga just for the sake of doing the manga and the upcoming movie and maybe, something else in development is where the show and real story really is.
Like Toyo said in an interview, Toriyama came up with the Dragon Balls as he doesn't feel he is supposed to do that, so he probably just fills the time with no other DB media and does basically a filler story before something else comes out.
In the end, this manga Super era really feels like at the End Of Z, Goku can say that ''Hey, it's me Goku, something probably happened in the gap and I hit my head, so I don't remember meeting Bulma, but here I am and going to train Uub and wrap up the story.''

But I am curious about the new Vegeta as apprentice to Beerus.

[MCDaveG]

You really think any of that is going to stop AT from making Freeza powerful enough to be a threat if it fits his story?

No.

I hate it too, brother. Just have learned to accept it.

At least he's not as bad as the anime. If AT's power scaling is questionable, the anime team's is literally braindead. If I'm ever feeling upset about the way things are going in the manga I can always watch an episode of Super to remind me things aren't actually that bad.

The power scaling never had much logic to begin with anyway... always serves whatever plot the author comes up with and if Goku says, that someone is too powerful for him, he just is. + everyone who comes afterwards is somehow stronger than the opponents before, be it alien or magic in nature...
Would love for the support cast to somehow unlock some macguffin like DC characters in Injustice game being somehow fed with kryptonite f*ck logic capsules, that makes everyone to go on par with Superman. I dunno, unlocking some power well somewhere with their Ki, or whatever. Androids back in the day had basically some enhancing cyborg grafts that made humans go on par with Saiyans.

So yeah, if Freeza comes back sooner or later, he will definitely whoop our heroes asses somehow. Be it Platinum form or doing 1000 sit ups every day behind the scenes right now, we'll see

[Charlie's Shadow]

Toyo-tarou admitted to using sexual harassment of women for comedy in a kids comic. Wow, fuck you too asshole.

So the process is: Toyotarõ comes up with the villain, him and his editor come up with a story, finally it's sent to Toriyama.

Too many obstacles for it to be anything more than average, unless Toriyama completely takes over...

First Toyotarõ doesn't feel like he can take any major decisions, like create a new set of Dragon Balls. This is a huge roadblock, tip-toeing your own ideas seems counter-productive.

Then the editor screening, I'm assuming the editor like many others holds back certain concepts. I bet if Toyotarõ came up with Mr.Boo, for example, it would be shot down "not cool enough".

Looking at the Toriyama intervention, it seems essential to keep the story interesting. He came up with the Heeters and has insight like pointing out how Ceruleans aren't a warrior race.

That sounds like how the government operates...not efficient at all.

No, it sounds like how capitalism works. If this were a democratic government that was failing it would be because it failed the people and thus was now being cleaned up by the people. Under capitalism the people have zero recourse because the government is bribed to provide financial bailouts.

Imagine being so braindead and addicted to ideologies that you have to shift the entire point of the joke just to come with "hurr Durr capitalism is bad". And while doing so, showing so little understanding of literally everything you mentioned.

Government Bureaucracy isn't an issue associated with any economic or political system. It can and it has happened under all forms of government, including (but not limited to) democratic governments with socialistic tendencies and ideas. This bureaucracy, this inefficiency, was the point of the comment.

Try to learn basic reading comprehension before spiting garbage with topics you're clearly not prepared to debate.

[FlpShimizu]

I'm on board with discussing capitalism and sexual harassment in DB all day, but not here.

[LightBing]

It's more likely Freeza won't make an appearance than he will.

It's hard to deal with Freeza without Vegeta going for the kill or in this arc, Granolah. The direction I see is Goku/Vegeta/Granolah vs the Heeters.

Anything different and it's a curveball to me.

Freeza would be perfect for a U6 arc. He runs away from this Universe, fuses with Frost getting way powerful and takes control, maybe wiping out a good of Saiyans to force our crew to travel there.
It's been established Goku and Vegeta are the top of U7, directly by the nature of the wish Granolah did. There's no more legendary Saiyans, 5000 years old prisoners' or ancient evils for them to pull out(not that it's much of an obstacle for them).

[PurestEvil]

Note that we have one week until the new chapter drops, how do you think Vegeta will do?

I predict that he will overpower Granola, but not beat him due to external circumstances

[Koitsukai]

Note that we have one week until the new chapter drops, how do you think Vegeta will do?

I predict that he will overpower Granola, but not beat him due to external circumstances

The cliffhanger, and how we got there, implied Vegeta will overpower Granola. Toyo's interview where he was reluctant to say who's stronger between the saiyans because of spoilers, makes me think Geets actually surpasses Goku this month.

I would really like the chapter to be 1/3 about their fight, and the other 2/3 about the Heetas.

[TKA]

I'm on board with discussing capitalism and sexual harassment in DB all day, but not here.

I disagree. I'm all for discussing the art with whatever framing device a person wants to use. I'd love to see a critique of Dragonball from a feminist perspective. Or a black perspective. Or anything outside of the usual voices we hear (typically, straight white guys in their 20s and 30s). Her post was on-topic because it was directly related to the Super manga.

[Thani]

I'm on board with discussing capitalism and sexual harassment in DB all day, but not here.

I disagree. I'm all for discussing the art with whatever framing device a person wants to use. I'd love to see a critique of Dragonball from a feminist perspective. Or a black perspective. Or anything outside of the usual voices we hear (typically, straight white guys in their 20s and 30s). Her post was on-topic because it was directly related to the Super manga.

Yeah agreed. This thread is as good a place as any to discuss this stuff.

And I have to agree with Julie in that front, the whole scene felt gross with how unconfortable Maki was with the whole situation, even if it was something as small as a kiss on the cheek.

[JulieYBM]

I'm on board with discussing capitalism and sexual harassment in DB all day, but not here.

I disagree. I'm all for discussing the art with whatever framing device a person wants to use. I'd love to see a critique of Dragonball from a feminist perspective. Or a black perspective. Or anything outside of the usual voices we hear (typically, straight white guys in their 20s and 30s). Her post was on-topic because it was directly related to the Super manga.

Yeah agreed. This thread is as good a place as any to discuss this stuff.

And I have to agree with Julie in that front, the whole scene felt gross with how unconfortable Maki was with the whole situation, even if it was something as small as a kiss on the cheek.

To build off of this: trust me, when you're a woman being approached by men in a slightly more than casual way it's extremely uncomfortable. Maki actually being touched like that without her permission is something that would scare the fuck about of a girl in real life. It's not as 'small' as one might think.

But big thanks to everyone for the encouraging posts.

[FlpShimizu]

Shit, I meant as to not derail the thread in general when people started talking about governments and capitalism. We absolutely have to talk about both subjects, sorry if it sounded like I was against it.

[Thani]

Shit, I meant as to not derail the thread in general when people started talking about governments and capitalism. We absolutely have to talk about both subjects, sorry if it sounded like I was against it.

Don't worry, it's okay. I also expressed myself badly on my comment.

[Charlie's Shadow]

I'm on board with discussing capitalism and sexual harassment in DB all day, but not here.

I disagree. I'm all for discussing the art with whatever framing device a person wants to use. I'd love to see a critique of Dragonball from a feminist perspective. Or a black perspective. Or anything outside of the usual voices we hear (typically, straight white guys in their 20s and 30s). Her post was on-topic because it was directly related to the Super manga.

Regardless of your "framing" or "perspective", criticism/discussion needs to be grounded on logic. You can't make an excuse of "oh I'm looking at this from perspective X" to justify logical fallacies or nonsensical arguments.

There's also a matter of applicability. Most theories have a domain in which they are applicable, which is defined explicitly by the one that developed that theory, or implicitly, by the hypothesis and assumptions common to most theories.

For example, I won't get anything criticizing dragon ball in regards to it's relevance to the discussion about corruption in country X, because no connection to this topic was intended or even established. Any attempt at this would result in huge leaps in logic that fall apart easily, similar to those forced connections "oh but freeza is CLEARLY meant to criticize politician X that I happen to dislike". Discussions, if you could even call them that, that are based on such leaps are meaningless.

[VegettoEX]

People are free to talk about anything they want in any way they want, so long as that conversation falls in line with the spirit of our community guidelines.

You're free to either talk with them or not.

For example, I won't get anything criticizing dragon ball in regards to it's relevance to the discussion about corruption in country X, because no connection to this topic was intended or even established. Any attempt at this would result in huge leaps in logic that fall apart easily, similar to those forced connections "oh but freeza is CLEARLY meant to criticize politician X that I happen to dislike". Discussions, if you could even call them that, that are based on such leaps are meaningless.

Freeza was conceived of toward the end of the Japanese economic bubble as a take on land sharks, which Toriyama thought were the worst kind of people.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... interview/

[Charlie's Shadow]

People are free to talk about anything they want in any way they want, so long as that conversation falls in line with the spirit of our community guidelines.

You're free to either talk with them or not.

For example, I won't get anything criticizing dragon ball in regards to it's relevance to the discussion about corruption in country X, because no connection to this topic was intended or even established. Any attempt at this would result in huge leaps in logic that fall apart easily, similar to those forced connections "oh but freeza is CLEARLY meant to criticize politician X that I happen to dislike". Discussions, if you could even call them that, that are based on such leaps are meaningless.

Freeza was conceived of toward the end of the Japanese economic bubble as a take on land sharks, which Toriyama thought were the worst kind of people.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... interview/

At what point did I say or even imply that people aren't free to talk about something? I said it's meaningless. I didn't send a formal request expressing my desire to prohibit these discussions.

1 - That's a statement made by the author, not an assumption.
2 - Still not a commentary on corruption in Japan, much less in random countries.
3 - Linking a character to a "kind" of person and linking the same character to an specific person are very different actions
4 - You missed the point of that entire paragraph. The point was to say that attempting forced connections between some fictional media and real life issues often results in meaningless discussions, because most times, the connections will be based on small, superficial details and on huge leaps in logic. If there is an intentional established connection, stated by the author, then this issue is less likely to appear.

[BWri]

I started to like him again in Tournament of Power, which was actually pretty fresh, to make him part of the hero team, but now it's Freeza there somewhere, sure, he is strong, he can make trouble, but is he really a trouble for the main guys? Not by a stretch...

This is bit of the DB formula that really irks me. I'm specifically talking about the reliance on making 2 characters the strongest, heads and shoulders above everyone else at all times. It's to the point where even Frieza is considered a mid-tier fighter. What, did he expend all his potential already?

Super Dragon Ball Heroes unintentionally parodied this really well during the battle with Hearts, by making Jiren and Hit the same jobber tier as Piccolo and #17, like right after the ToP had ended no less .

[TKA]

There's also a matter of applicability. Most theories have a domain in which they are applicable, which is defined explicitly by the one that developed that theory, or implicitly, by the hypothesis and assumptions common to most theories.

Miss me with that junior high school stuff.

The point of philosophy and political theory is to apply them to all aspects of life. That's why they have to be robust. You can apply them to anything, and more times than not, they enhance whatever you apply them to. A capitalist critique applied to Dragonball is probably one of the most salient, given how obvious they tend to be with their marketing.

"Broly was popular, so we made Toriyama-sensei write a movie about him."

"Future Trunks was popular, so we made Toriyama-sensei write an arc about him."

I deliberately did not reply to you because you called a poster "braindead", which is beyond the pale for me. I recommend reassessing how you interact with others.

[DiscountDabi]

Drafts are out: https://twitter.com/DbsHype/status/1425 ... 4504?s=20
Personal Thoughs?

Spoiler:

Vegeta is without a doubt stronger than Goku right now. Mans looks insane, he's beating Granolah Like a Rag Doll

[HeroR]

I started to like him again in Tournament of Power, which was actually pretty fresh, to make him part of the hero team, but now it's Freeza there somewhere, sure, he is strong, he can make trouble, but is he really a trouble for the main guys? Not by a stretch...

This is bit of the DB formula that really irks me. I'm specifically talking about the reliance on making 2 characters the strongest, heads and shoulders above everyone else at all times. It's to the point where even Frieza is considered a mid-tier fighter. What, did he expend all his potential already?

Super Dragon Ball Heroes unintentionally parodied this really well during the battle with Hearts, by making Jiren and Hit the same jobber tier as Piccolo and #17, like right after the ToP had ended no less .

Not really when Jiren and Hit helped Gogeta take out Hearts while Piccolo and 17 did jack. Jiren also did the best against Cumber outside of UI and Golden Metal Cooler.

And producer-wise, this happened over a year after the TOP.