"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[DSB]

Funny. Bunch of elitists deciding that i need to be removed from technology.

lmao. who the fuck are you lol

[ssj3kakarot]

Love how so many people are complaining about Vegeta seemingly losing after a new "hyped" transformation is birthed. Seems many of the same people are the ones accepting it when Goku obtains a form (Ultra Instinct) and loses, time and time again because he is written to do the same thing(drop guard etc), time and time again.

It's actually fitting that Vegeta loses...if that is in fact what is happening in the leaks. Goku has a better form, and loses to Granny, Vegeta should be no different in my opinion. Especialy because Vegeta has less time behind Destruction than Goku does with MUI.

For the record, i think it sucks when a new form is showcased and loses. It does give the feeling of " why the F even have a new power up if it just loses in the same 10 minute time span"? I thought a WAY better showcase of Destruction vegeta would be something like this.

MUI Goku loses, Vegeta steps in and loses....*some story takes place*. Freeza finally shows up, fights and defeats a drained Granohla, for Vegeta to step in, pushed to his limits, enraged at the fact Frezzy Pops is super duper strong, transforms into Destruction and kills Freeza, saving Granohla, everyone is satisfied!. That way a new form isn't pooped on. I also dont like how Goku lost, but whatever.

[TBMx]

As a consumer, your only power is to support the product or not. It's not your place to tell creatives how to create. It sure as shit isn't your place to bombard them with your anger on social media, especially for something as inconsequential as a fictitious story.

He has freedom of speech though, as long as it's within the rules of the social media site. If it violates those rules, thats up to the website. Otherwise what he gets up to in his own time is his business. Professional writers are professionals. They'll survive a fan calling them a stupid head.

In every other business, consumers are allowed to complain to businesses about their product - why again is writing exempt?

Go @ the companies. Don't @ the private social medias of the individual people involved. This is the same stupid gamerbro logic that sees developers getting harassed on social media instead of the companies involved. Jesus Christ, how is this hard to understand?

That's Toyotaro's work profile. He promotes his DB work on there. If the company comes down to an individual's work then I ask again, why is writing different to say complaining about one man who provides appliances or sweeps drive ways doing unsatisfactory work. Why's it ok to complain about one and not the other? What's special about writing?

Btw, the quoting format system on this site is confusing and very user unfriendly.

[PurestEvil]

This thread just got really amazing really fast. And not in a good way!

Anyway, Vegeta losing, to me, was expected. Granolah didn't do much despite being the supposed "strongest", so it's nice to see him prove his title.

HOWEVER, let's not forget that Granolah DEFEATED Goku by exploiting UI's weakness. There's nothing to say he won't do the same with Vegeta. So chill, people, and let's see the whole picture before shitting on Toyo. After all, Vegeta starts the chapter completely demolishing our cerealian protagonist. So let's see how he flips the table on his favour, yeah?

To me this chapter just hammers down the simple fact that DAMN, THESE MORONS SHOULD HAVE JUST WORKED TOGETHER FROM THE START.

Thank you, I want to pat your back, dude.
I seriously wish we as a well regarded fan-forum could all keep at least some of our emotions bottled in while reading spoilers until the actual chapters are released.
Only if Vegeta’s [very likely but not totally certain] defeat is executed poorly, THEN I will express my rough feelings.

Funny. Bunch of elitists deciding that i need to be removed from technology.

lmao. who the fuck are you lol

We are more mature and decent than you, for sure

[DSB]

Funny. Bunch of elitists deciding that i need to be removed from technology.

lmao. who the fuck are you lol

We are more mature and decent than you, for sure
[/quote]

exactly what an elitist would say.

[PurestEvil]

Funny. Bunch of elitists deciding that i need to be removed from technology.

lmao. who the fuck are you lol

We are more mature and decent than you, for sure

exactly what an elitist would say.
[/quote]

We are not the ones blowing a fuse over a children’s comic book.

[VegettoEX]

There are absolutely terms of service on sites like Twitter. We have our own community guidelines here, too!

You can also, just, like, not be an asshole to people?

Anyway, seems like someone's having a tough time being taken to task for their words and actions. Weird.

Back exclusively on-topic, please!

[PurestEvil]

As a consumer, your only power is to support the product or not. It's not your place to tell creatives how to create. It sure as shit isn't your place to bombard them with your anger on social media, especially for something as inconsequential as a fictitious story.

He has freedom of speech though, as long as it's within the rules of the social media site. If it violates those rules, thats up to the website. Otherwise what he gets up to in his own time is his business. Professional writers are professionals. They'll survive a fan calling them a stupid head.

If only “stupid head” was the worst thing an internet user could use as an insult!

[FoolsGil]

All I can say on the subject is, I feel for everyone upset about this, but Dragonball for better or for worst, is Dragonball. Why do better, why be better, when everything you've done to this moment worked in regards to money and fans?

[DSB]

As a consumer, your only power is to support the product or not. It's not your place to tell creatives how to create. It sure as shit isn't your place to bombard them with your anger on social media, especially for something as inconsequential as a fictitious story.

He has freedom of speech though, as long as it's within the rules of the social media site. If it violates those rules, thats up to the website. Otherwise what he gets up to in his own time is his business. Professional writers are professionals. They'll survive a fan calling them a stupid head.

If only “stupid head” was the worst thing an internet user could use as an insult!

2 bit writer is not much worse than stupid head. i didnt abuse him as a person, nor did any personal insult. Neither did retarded stuff like death threats.

the worst thing i said that nothing more can be expected from the writer of DB AF.

if you think this demands the hate and elitist BS i got from here, all of you need to go outside and face the real world more.

anyway, this is the last thing iw ill say about this specific thing. its almost like talking to a wall. the holier than thou bs is irritating.

[VegettoEX]

You're not the victim of anything or anyone, you're off-topic, and this is the last warning.

[BWri]

All I can say on the subject is, I feel for everyone upset about this, but Dragonball for better or for worst, is Dragonball. Why do better, why be better, when everything you've done to this moment worked in regards to money and fans?

Pretty much this. I think we're going to be in a cycle as long as a new creator is using old characters while being supervised by an old creator and a team of people whose sole purpose is to make tons of money from Dragon Ball.

I wonder what a brand new Toriyama/Toyotaro IP would look like.
**this is general criticisms btw, and not criticism about the leaks

[HeroR]

The problem I often have with fans, espeicially DBZ fandom, is that certain tend to conflate quality with being satisfied. Many people, including on this one, seem to get upset when their favorite character doesn't get what they believe is their dues. Remember when Roshi actually yelled at Goku for focusing too much on strength and not on form, that a small tanget of fanboys got upset because "HOW DARE SOMEONE LIKE ROSHI TEL OFF GOKU." Yes a story needs to be satisfying, but fans need to be able to trust the storyteller on where they're taking the story. If everything is meant to satisfy the audience, then nothing matters. IF you want an example, go see the DB Heroes series which all fanservice all the time. Sometimes holding back is a good thing, because it makes later victories much more sweeter.

That wasn't the reason why many of us hated that scene. The scene was an issue because Goku has never been one to focused on forms or power like that and it was a flaw put in the Super manga. Even in the Super manga, Goku didn't become power obsessed or wanting a new form until that arc.

[HeroR]

This thread just got really amazing really fast. And not in a good way!

Anyway, Vegeta losing, to me, was expected. Granolah didn't do much despite being the supposed "strongest", so it's nice to see him prove his title.

HOWEVER, let's not forget that Granolah DEFEATED Goku by exploiting UI's weakness. There's nothing to say he won't do the same with Vegeta. So chill, people, and let's see the whole picture before shitting on Toyo. After all, Vegeta starts the chapter completely demolishing our cerealian protagonist. So let's see how he flips the table on his favour, yeah?

To me this chapter just hammers down the simple fact that DAMN, THESE FOOLS SHOULD HAVE JUST WORKED TOGETHER FROM THE START. They always lose when they pull this shit. Always. It's really infuriating hahaha

Honestly, my biggest issue with Granolah beating UI is that Toyo nerfed it to make that work, which he admitted to doing because he made UI too strong in the last arc. So despite being the 'strongest mortal in the universe', Toyo still made Goku weaker to give Granolah a chance.

All I can say on the subject is, I feel for everyone upset about this, but Dragonball for better or for worst, is Dragonball. Why do better, why be better, when everything you've done to this moment worked in regards to money and fans?

Pretty much this. I think we're going to be in a cycle as long as a new creator is using old characters while being supervised by an old creator and a team of people whose sole purpose is to make tons of money from Dragon Ball.

I wonder what a brand new Toriyama/Toyotaro IP would look like.
**this is general criticisms btw, and not criticism about the leaks

Knowing Toriyama, something more in the vain of Dr. Slump or the one-shots he did in the 2000s. Or you can used Jaco as a reference and just removed the final chapter.

[YamiGoku]

I wish I could quit paying attention to the manga but I'm too much of a fan of DB, if only we had the anime or something else to watch to satisfy my DB needs...

the manga always gets me hype and then crushed my hopes to the point to question myself why I even bother to get invested in it.

[BWri]

Knowing Toriyama, something more in the vain of Dr. Slump or the one-shots he did in the 2000s. Or you can used Jaco as a reference and just removed the final chapter.

What's interesting about that is Toriyama-san has been slowly but surely expanding the DB-verse. I didn't know until recently that Jiya and Sachie-chan Guu!! were in the same verse. Add Jaco to that and that's 3 expansions to universe 7 via the Galactic Patrol. Not to mention, including Dragon Ball all this expands the Dr. Slump verse.

[Cipher]

This was the best chapter ever when it seemed like Vegeta might win but now that it seems like he doesn’t it sucks.

That wasn't the reason why many of us hated that scene. The scene was an issue because Goku has never been one to focused on forms or power like that and it was a flaw put in the Super manga. Even in the Super manga, Goku didn't become power obsessed or wanting a new form until that arc.

A nice idea, but I don’t think it’s born out in either series itself. Goku is about getting stronger to overcome opponents from as early as his fight with Tao Pai Pai. He’ll try every trick up his sleeve when he’s down, of course, but his answer is always “get stronger” (or find a way to get Gohan stronger, the one time). Even against Boo, it’s Vegeta who suggests the Genki Dama, which is in its own way just a brute force attack, and one that’s locked off to him at the ToP. In Super the name of the game up to that point has been higher levels of power—first in God allowing Goku to stand up to Beerus, and then in the multi-arc quest to gradually improve their use of Blue. Hit takes some lateral thinking but is still about out-stronging at a key moment in the end. Kaio-ken is about getting stronger; gravity training is about getting stronger; finding the right improvement to Super Saiyan is about getting stronger; Super Saiyan 3 and Fusion are about ... you guessed it! being stronger than the other guy in a fight.

This idea that there’s a Goku who always thinks laterally about how to beat opponents and wouldn’t be flummoxed by what to do when finding a power breakthrough doesn’t work is a fun one—but you’ll have to point out where in either series that Goku actually is. When push comes to shove, he’s creative, but he’s creative about finding the right power-up. Turtle Hermit’s conversation is about shaking him of that, because it doesn’t work against Jiren at all.

[HeroR]

This was the best chapter ever when it seemed like Vegeta might win but now that it seems like he doesn’t it sucks.

That wasn't the reason why many of us hated that scene. The scene was an issue because Goku has never been one to focused on forms or power like that and it was a flaw put in the Super manga. Even in the Super manga, Goku didn't become power obsessed or wanting a new form until that arc.

A nice idea, but I don’t think it’s born out in either series itself. Goku is about getting stronger to overcome opponents from as early as his fight with Tao Pai Pai. He’ll try every trick up his sleeve when he’s down, of course, but his answer is always “get stronger” (or find a way to get Gohan stronger, the one time). Even against Boo, it’s Vegeta who suggests the Genki Dama, which is in its own way just a brute force attack, and one that’s locked off to him at the ToP. In Super the name of the game up to that point has been higher levels of power—first in God allowing Goku to stand up to Beerus, and then in the multi-arc quest to gradually improve their use of Blue. Hit takes some lateral thinking but is still about out-stronging at a key moment in the end. Kaio-ken is about getting stronger; gravity training is about getting stronger; finding the right improvement to Super Saiyan is about getting stronger; Super Saiyan 3 and Fusion are about ... you guessed it! being stronger than the other guy in a fight.

This idea that there’s a Goku who always thinks laterally about how to beat opponents and wouldn’t be flummoxed by what to do when finding a power breakthrough doesn’t work is a fun one—but you’ll have to point out where in either series that Goku actually is. When push comes to shove, he’s creative, but he’s creative about finding the right power-up. Turtle Hermit’s conversation is about shaking him of that, because it doesn’t work against Jiren at all.

The problem with that thinking is, it didn’t work for Roshi. He dodged Jiren, but could literally do nothing else before Jiren love tapped him out of the ring. So the lesson remained, ‘technique means crap if you don’t have the power to back it’. Especially with UI being both a form and technique for Goku. So the solution was ‘being stronger than the other guy in a fight’ except it now add auto-dodge. Even with Moro the ultimate solution was being stronger than him since Moro got around Vegeta nerfing him. So this lesson feels extremely shallow.

That and Goku didn’t try to be creative fighting Jiren in the manga. He tried only brute force and more brute force and whined when brute force didn’t work. At least in the anime, Goku did try to outsmart Jiren by beating him via ring out or working with others to overcome Jiren’s power.

[Skar]

2 bit writer is not much worse than stupid head. i didnt abuse him as a person, nor did any personal insult. Neither did retarded stuff like death threats.

the worst thing i said that nothing more can be expected from the writer of DB AF.

if you think this demands the hate and elitist BS i got from here, all of you need to go outside and face the real world more.

anyway, this is the last thing iw ill say about this specific thing. its almost like talking to a wall. the holier than thou bs is irritating.

Other people have already addressed the difference between criticizing the story and attacking the author but I'm curious what kind of results you were expecting by leaving this type of comment. Were you hoping it would hurt his feelings and he quits drawing the manga? In the off chance he saw your comment, I think the only response an author would give is "please wait to see how the story develops" or maybe "I'm sorry it wasn't to your liking I'll try to improve next time". Toriyama already had the outline written so a few negative comments on Twitter won't force Toyotaro to change anything as long as Toriyama is approving it. It's fine to give criticism but if you feel this angry over some spoilers then it might be best to take a break from the story and catch up once the arc ends.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Spoiler:

If this brief summary is even vaguely accurate as to how things go down...

...Then this feels like an interesting, twisted riff on a Vegeta-Cabbe kind of interaction from Early Super, inasmuch as Vegeta foregrounds his own understanding of 'Saiyan-ness' (meaningful in both instances, being against a fundamentally different kind of Saiyan and against a victim of his kind of Saiyan, respectively), and in so doing engages in a deliberate provocation of his opponent by threatening the destruction of his people/planet (a pose, against Cabbe, but maybe not against Granolah), thus drawing forth unguessed-at power in his opponent (perhaps as intended in both instances?). There's also the 'surprise' revelation of a Godly form in each encounter, and a sort of 'master-like' posture taken by Vegeta in response to his less experienced opponent.

It might not be what they're going for, but it was the first thing that came to mind, and I thought it was an interesting way of looking at it.