"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Issei189]

Once again, Vegeta gets a new form, gets cocky with this new “ultra ego” nonsense, then by the end of the chapter he’s getting rekt.

Funny haha

Not exactly. If you had payed attention Vegeta was purposely being cocky and purposely took a lot of damage to get stronger considering these are the mechanics of his new God of destruction state as the chapter shows and that allowed him to remain on Granola's level. So Vegeta's new form is basically the opposite of UI which requires him to be primal, reckless and have him take a hit, so this time he intentionally needed to be like this in order to get stronger and that's ironic. At the end he just got outskilled because of Granola's second red eye. He would have won if Granola didn't suddenly unlock his hidden power.

[HeroR]

Once again, Vegeta gets a new form, gets cocky with this new “ultra ego” nonsense, then by the end of the chapter he’s getting rekt.

Funny haha

Not exactly. If you had payed attention Vegeta was purposely being cocky and purposely took a lot of damage to get stronger considering these are the mechanics of his new God of destruction state as the chapter shows and that allowed him to remain on Granola's level. So Vegeta's new form is basically the opposite of UI which requires him to be primal, reckless and have him take a hit, so this time he intentionally needed to be like this in order to get stronger and that's ironic. At the end he just got outskilled because of Granola's second red eye. He would have won if Granola didn't suddenly unlock his hidden power.

Vegeta lost primarily because he took too much damage. He was getting blurred eyed before Granola's second eye opened. Which is why he went from a desperate Hakai ball attack and double dared Granola to stop it.

[Issei189]

Once again, Vegeta gets a new form, gets cocky with this new “ultra ego” nonsense, then by the end of the chapter he’s getting rekt.

Funny haha

Not exactly. If you had payed attention Vegeta was purposely being cocky and purposely took a lot of damage to get stronger considering these are the mechanics of his new God of destruction state as the chapter shows and that allowed him to remain on Granola's level. So Vegeta's new form is basically the opposite of UI which requires him to be primal, reckless and have him take a hit, so this time he intentionally needed to be like this in order to get stronger and that's ironic. At the end he just got outskilled because of Granola's second red eye. He would have won if Granola didn't suddenly unlock his hidden power.

Vegeta lost primarily because he took too much damage. He was getting blurred eyed before Granola's second eye opened. Which is why he went from a desperate Hakai ball attack and double dared Granola to stop it.

This is also true, but Granola's second red eye still plays a factor though because he wouldn't have been able to destroy that Hakai attack if not for his second eye. Logically he would have gotten hit by that hakai attack while desperately trying to destory it with his single eye ability and it would have resulted in him getting severly injured

[LightBing]

I wonder how healing Vegeta would affect UE, if Vegeta's till in the heat of battle his power should remain until the fighting or his "fire" end.

I also wonder if damage affects his battle power, how it always had in Dragon Ball. If it does, it's a great way to pave development for Vegeta discovering how to better deal with it.

Maybe insulting Bulma would skyrocket his battle spirit like it did when he was a SSJ2 against Beerus.

[Koitsukai]

I also wonder if Vegeta goes home, recovers, and in a couple of days goes all out again, his Ultra Lego power would start where he left off in this chapter, right?
All the "gains" from his fight with Granny should be there and be his starting point, while also being able to increase it again. That's a hell of a form.

[Skar]

While both versions of the ToP featured Vegeta going his own route in comparison to Ultra Instinct, the difference between them leads me to think it probably wasn't a Toriyama suggestion, which then leads me to believe these follow-ups likely aren't either, especially since this is drawing from the probably-not-primarily-Toriyama Moro arc developments for Vegeta.

Kind of immaterial since it's part of the final story he's approving and overseeing either way, but if I had to make an educated guess, I'd say the seeds of this probably came form Toyotaro.

Also, elements included in Toriyama’s outline this time could always include things that were originally Toyotaro ideas, since the initial pitch came from him. It’s all a big jumble at this point (and, as I recently talked about with Mike on the Kanzenshuu podcast, to some extent always has been).

That makes sense. I guess it's to give Vegeta something to work towards since I recall ASSJ Blue wasn't Toriyama's idea either so Vegeta would've been stuck training in regular Blue while Goku worked on mastering UI. It might not matter too much as long as Vegeta's still weaker by EoZ but at least this shortens the gap between them instead of leaving Vegeta with only Blue and Goku with UI.

[The Bastard.]

I'm just going to say it, this topic should be closed when the first leaks are released, the people overreacting in completely out of context pages, 1 panel, not even a whole page, out of hundreds in a chapter alone is incredibly dumb, it's happens the same way every month, how?

Can you not control yourselves instead of just shitting through your fingers, it really makes this thread unreadable, both due to spoilers and blatantly dumb opinions based on nothing but YouTuber and tweeter influencers train of thought.

[Koitsukai]

I'm just going to say it, this topic should be closed when the first leaks are released, the people overreacting in completely out of context pages, 1 panel, not even a whole page, out of hundreds in a chapter alone is incredibly dumb, it's happens the same way every month, how?

Can you not control yourselves instead of just shitting through your fingers, it really makes this thread unreadable, both due to spoilers and blatantly dumb opinions based on nothing but YouTuber and tweeter influencers train of thought.

I agree the leaks and spoilers make the thread unreadable, but it's not just this thread on this particular forum. You go on youtube and every youtuber has a video out titled spoilers "chapter 80 Vegeta makes out with Chichi", on twitter there are even summaries of the chapter, on instagram you already have the spoilers and leaks in full colour.

Yeah, people can't stay put, but I wonder why the hell we have leaks and spoilers in the first place. The leaks might be harmless sometimes, I wouldn't know, I avoid them as much as I can, and is Toyo or the editor who share them, so I guess most of the time they are "controlled", I remember some leaks implying stuff that wasn't really the case when the full chapter was out, kinda like playing with the audience in a good way.
But the spoilers really, what's up with that, they usually appear one or two days before the release... is also Toyo releasing them or there's a mole in V-Jump and they just chose to live with it?

There's also some guy Ryokuta or something like that who has shared spoilers not too long ago, a couple of days prior to the release.

[YuseiFudou]

Dunno if there are any 5D's fans here (wow, that ended a decade and 5 months ago), but it sure is funny that Goku now has Clear Mind and Vegeta has Burning Soul.

As a matter of fact, me right here. A bit of a late reply, but I actually did kinda put this together myself too haha.

[VegettoEX]

Magazine issues have to be sent off to shops ahead of street date in order for them to actually all be on sale at the same time at release date all over Japan. This is the major hole.

There has historically been actual organized crime in stealing magazine issues early (either directly off the shipping truck or out of the back room of shops) to then sell to online opportunists who distribute them on websites with ads and/or for Fake Internet Points on unmonetized social media. There have been several arrests in this area over the years.

In a transparent move to combat this and control the narrative, for several months now (geeze, it’s been longer than just a few months, huh?), the official Dragon Ball website has been releasing the first few pages of each DBS chapter in the form of Toyotatro’s drafts, generally the week before V-Jump hits. This beats the illegal leaks and, again, allows them to control the conversation very openly and with precision.

With regard to moderation, we absolutely have locked manga discussion threads (this megathread included) for days leading into chapter releases, and then opening back up upon official release. It all depends on a million different circumstances.

The best thing you can do to help is the following:

- Report posts that do not live up to the community guidelines, which everyone agrees to twice prior to registration.

- Strive to live up to the spirit of those guidelines yourself, and just be a great, thoughtful, reasonable person. This means really thinking about each post you make, and if you really need to post it.

- Please do listen to our most recent podcast and be an informed fan!

[Skar]

I'm just going to say it, this topic should be closed when the first leaks are released, the people overreacting in completely out of context pages, 1 panel, not even a whole page, out of hundreds in a chapter alone is incredibly dumb, it's happens the same way every month, how?

Can you not control yourselves instead of just shitting through your fingers, it really makes this thread unreadable, both due to spoilers and blatantly dumb opinions based on nothing but YouTuber and tweeter influencers train of thought.

Social media is mostly for knee jerk reactions and hot takes when it comes to almost subject. That's why I never read the comments unless it's like a funny video or meme. This is the only place I visit for discussing DB because it's a lot more reasonable here. There might be a few reactionary comments but it dies down once the chapter comes out and goes back to regular friendly discussions .

[nhienphan2808]

marked for deletion.

[omaro34]

i'll wait for this arc to play out, but the manga and dragonball super in general so far really hasn't explored a lot of what they introduced. There's 12 universes out there, and yet the story still keeps revolving around the 7th with a random alien wishing to make himself the strongest. So much lore established with pretty much nothing elaborated on, rather frustrating but it is what it is.

I've read fan mangas lately, and while the vast majority are crap, some are actually more interesting than the official stuff imo, which is sad.

[Chuquita]

I feel like they're playing it so safe that it becomes too repetitive for me to get much enjoyment out of it; like they're just spinning their wheels. I wish they'd take the characters to some of these other universes and explore that. My highest excitement with an arc shouldn't be my initial expectations when it's first announced.

I feel like I'm following the manga only because there isn't an anime version to watch instead, but if that leaned too close to the manga I'd still probably be disappointed because I'm not really enjoying the vision they seem to have for DB currently. I wonder if I would be more lenient on the manga if the art was closer to Toriyama's 80's or 90's art.

[LightBing]

I also wonder if Vegeta goes home, recovers, and in a couple of days goes all out again, his Ultra Lego power would start where he left off in this chapter, right?
All the "gains" from his fight with Granny should be there and be his starting point, while also being able to increase it again. That's a hell of a form.

That would make the technique way too good. He would basically have access to zenkais again, we all remember the ridiculous power jumps in the Namek Arc.

A more interesting route and likely is Vegeta finding alternatives to "pump himself up". Learn to take less damage, maybe learn some healing techniques. Goku was doing something this chapter, I wonder if that's foreshadowing.

[TKA]

There's 12 universes out there, and yet the story still keeps revolving around the 7th with a random alien wishing to make himself the strongest.

I always see people bringing this up.

There's functionally no difference between going to another universe and the characters going to any new place in universe 7. If it's not the story the creators want to tell, why force it?

[DiscountDabi]

There's 12 universes out there, and yet the story still keeps revolving around the 7th with a random alien wishing to make himself the strongest.

I always see people bringing this up.

There's functionally no difference between going to another universe and the characters going to any new place in universe 7. If it's not the story the creators want to tell, why force it?

Exactly this. Why do you think the flawed writing is going to become better by going to another Universe? What motivation would they have to just up and leave their family in another universe and go venture off into another one just for shits and giggles?

[Mr Baggins]

i'll wait for this arc to play out, but the manga and dragonball super in general so far really hasn't explored a lot of what they introduced. There's 12 universes out there, and yet the story still keeps revolving around the 7th with a random alien wishing to make himself the strongest.

When the concept of the multiverse was originally introduced in Battle of Gods, the point of that scene was to play into Goku's excitement about fighting some potentially super tough guys from these other planes of existence he never knew existed.

That was explored two arcs ago.

Anything else (lore-wise, if you're into that sort of thing) that would make the other universes inherently different from Goku's home universe - Gods of Destruction, Kaioshin, Angels, etc. - was also introduced and explored in the same arc. Aside from that weird "28 planets" bit, I would think any new ideas and worlds you could have the characters stumble upon could very well just exist in Universe 7.

I've talked about all this before, by the way. It's the same repeated line of criticism wherein everyone asks "Why didn't we get a Sadala arc?", despite the fact that a bunch of character storylines and background info for Universe 6's Saiyans were already pretty thoroughly implemented in two different Super arcs.

This just seems like an arbitrary complaint, is all.

[Tai Lung]

You guys think Toriyama came up with Vegeta's new "Ultra Ego" form? Both versions of the ToP implied Vegeta would go a different route than UI so I'm thinking it was Toriyama's idea but could be something Toei or Toyotaro came up with then Toyotaro decided to explore it later. I guess it depends how detailed Toriyama'a outline was for this arc.

Not sure what Toei was brought up since they have nothing to do with the manga. As for it this was Toriyama, I'm going to side with no. This form got as much buildup as the Toyo and Toei created forms like Completed Blue, Rage Trunks, and SSBE Vegeta. Compared those forms to the hype UI got. Even Blue was giving a bunch of toys before Resurrection 'F' came out. I can't imagine a Toriyama new form getting literally nothing even if it was manga only.

That and the design doesn't look modern Toriyama to me. He far more into subtly and elegant by the way he made Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, Golden Frieza, and UI. I can see Toriyama giving Toyo the idea, but Toyo designing it like the Heeters.

Finally, it's odd for Toriyama to make a new form for Vegeta and Heroes not using it, instead giving Vegeta their own take of a new form.

A good episode in choreography but nothing else happens to comment ....
Vegeta is going to lose ... the vegefans should give up hope

You guys think Toriyama came up with Vegeta's new "Ultra Ego" form? Both versions of the ToP implied Vegeta would go a different route than UI so I'm thinking it was Toriyama's idea but could be something Toei or Toyotaro came up with then Toyotaro decided to explore it later. I guess it depends how detailed Toriyama'a outline was for this arc.

basically they got it from Toppo hakaishin in the TOP

I would say Toyo was inspired by God of Destruction Toppo, but the forms aren't really the same. Like Vegeta doesn't make a Hakai shield nor did Vegeta needed to give up who he was.

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I think it is implicit that Vegeta used a hakai shield when receiving the granolah attack for a few moments which is why ... granolah wonders why he doesn't dodge his attacks

[DiscountDabi]

I Was discussing how this chapter made me feel about Vegeta, and while he didn't do as bad as I though it still bothered me because I know Goku is just gonna come in and win. And someone tried to argue that "Well Goku got taken out of the fight too. Its not like he's just gonna get up and wail on Granolah."

Well lets take a look at the track record

Goku fights beerus and loses, Vegeta comes in and gets nothing done, before Goku comes in to steal the spotlight
Goku fights Frieza and loses, Vegeta comes in and gets nothing done, before Goku comes in and steals the spotlight
Goku fights Jiren and Loses,Vegeta comes in and gets nothing done, before Goku comes in and steals the spotlight
Goku fights Moro and loses, Vegeta comes in and gets nothing done before Goku comes in and steals the spotlight
Goku fights Granolah and Loses, Vegeta comes in and gets nothing done...

Do you see the pattern here? The only arc that didn't go this way was the Goku Black arc. And thats only because the ending was WORSE.

Its just so predictable and bothersome.