We shouldnt take Toriyama's words as gospel, given his memory and how his depicted feats clash with his "words of god"

[VegettoEX]

It still does get called into question, with an example being when he admitted how he forgot about the character of Launch, and her absence from the gang was a question mark throughout pretty much all of Z.

Lunch was written out of the story two chapters after she was last seen. Toriyama later thought he forgot about her; he hadn't.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/rumor/characters/

Anyway, I'm of two minds about the subject: Listen to what he says if you want, or don't.

It doesn't matter. Nothing he says holds any weight on the original material published within the pages of Weekly Shonen Jump if you don't want it to. Or, contrastly, if you want it to hold weight, it can.

The only issue is when fans get rude and presumptuous with each other. Either agree on what you want to talk about, or agree to disagree while simultaneously laughing about how preposterous the entire situation is.

(I think "Death of the Author" is a somewhat laughable middle-school-level-at-best exercise / track / viewpoint / hard line to take when analyzing art. More information is always better. You don't have to agree with it or use it in the long run, but it's always worth having. At best it gives you more story/world-building/experiences, and at worst it just gives you additional insight into the author's train of thought and/or corporate oversight with which to shape and inform your own critical analysis.)

[JulieYBM]

I personally just shrug my shoulders. I feel like more than just one factor should inform someone's fandom but hell, god awful people who happen to make art also exist (JK Rowling). Ultimately, the form someone's fandom takes is going to be unique to them. That can mean posting on forums, hosting con panels, making AMVs, fan animation or whatever and those things will always exist separately from the original work it might be derived from, just like any other form of parody.

Personally, I just think fans should do whatever they want with their fandom and not worry too much about inconsequential shit the author says after the fact, like, well, Toriyama saying Kuririn is stronger than Tenahinhan. The guy's dodged taxes and Kuririn being stronger than Tenahinhan is the controversial thing?

[Jiren The Alpha]

We also should not take fans words as gospel, given they also have bad memories.

[VegettoEX]

We also should not take fans words as gospel, given they also have bad memories.

Was this ever in question? Particularly with a website like Kanzenshuu whose entire purpose is built around documentation and informational preservation with concrete references?

Unless you're talking about opinion-based discussions/tidbits, which...? That doesn't really apply here, since of course an opinion is just an opinion...

[Jiren The Alpha]

We also should not take fans words as gospel, given they also have bad memories.

Was this ever in question? Particularly with a website like Kanzenshuu whose entire purpose is built around documentation and informational preservation with concrete references?

Unless you're talking about opinion-based discussions/tidbits, which...? That doesn't really apply here, since of course an opinion is just an opinion...

I'm talking about when fans say "Vegeta never wins" "Goku always wins" and "the other fighters never do anything", thats objectively wrong, so I'm thinking it's bad memory or maybe they only remember the old movies. And we still have people going around and saying that the series was supposed to end at the Freeza or Cell arc.

[Skar]

I'm talking about when fans say "Vegeta never wins" "Goku always wins" and "the other fighters never do anything", thats objectively wrong, so I'm thinking it's bad memory or maybe they only remember the old movies. And we still have people going around and saying that the series was supposed to end at the Freeza or Cell arc.

I don't think any fan is taking those opinions as gospel since there's always someone disagreeing when they're brought up.

[Alruneia]

I'm talking about when fans say "Vegeta never wins" "Goku always wins" and "the other fighters never do anything", thats objectively wrong, so I'm thinking it's bad memory or maybe they only remember the old movies. And we still have people going around and saying that the series was supposed to end at the Freeza or Cell arc.

I don't think any fan is taking those opinions as gospel since there's always someone disagreeing when they're brought up.

Actually, it is a bit of a problem around the internet where people aren't as critical and analytical as here. It happens more often than I'd like to see; fans immediately and wholeheartedly believing something other fans have told them, especially if it's a fan with a following (not gonna name any names). In a good portion of the cases I've seen, the fans will completely make up their minds based on what those "influencer fans" have said, and will not be open to other opinions, even with direct proof that contradicts their stance. There's a reason why misinformation is so rampant in the Dragon Ball fandom as a whole, and part of it is that people do indeed take fans' statements as gospel sometimes.

[Skar]

Actually, it is a bit of a problem around the internet where people aren't as critical and analytical as here. It happens more often than I'd like to see; fans immediately and wholeheartedly believing something other fans have told them, especially if it's a fan with a following (not gonna name any names). In a good portion of the cases I've seen, the fans will completely make up their minds based on what those "influencer fans" have said, and will not be open to other opinions, even with direct proof that contradicts their stance. There's a reason why misinformation is so rampant in the Dragon Ball fandom as a whole, and part of it is that people do indeed take fans' statements as gospel sometimes.

That makes sense but I guess that's more to do with how general misinformation spreads across the internet. It's common for people to believe a quote or "fact" they read online even though a few second Google search would prove that it's false or taken out of context. I meant this forum since there's always someone disagreeing or questioning their source which helps prevent the spread of misinformation among fans here at least.

[Anonymous Friend]

I'm talking about when fans say "Vegeta never wins" "Goku always wins" and "the other fighters never do anything", thats objectively wrong, so I'm thinking it's bad memory or maybe they only remember the old movies. And we still have people going around and saying that the series was supposed to end at the Freeza or Cell arc.

I don't think any fan is taking those opinions as gospel since there's always someone disagreeing when they're brought up.

Actually, it is a bit of a problem around the internet where people aren't as critical and analytical as here. It happens more often than I'd like to see; fans immediately and wholeheartedly believing something other fans have told them, especially if it's a fan with a following (not gonna name any names). In a good portion of the cases I've seen, the fans will completely make up their minds based on what those "influencer fans" have said, and will not be open to other opinions, even with direct proof that contradicts their stance. There's a reason why misinformation is so rampant in the Dragon Ball fandom as a whole, and part of it is that people do indeed take fans' statements as gospel sometimes.

Are you sure people aren't just taking the piss?

[Alruneia]

I don't think any fan is taking those opinions as gospel since there's always someone disagreeing when they're brought up.

Actually, it is a bit of a problem around the internet where people aren't as critical and analytical as here. It happens more often than I'd like to see; fans immediately and wholeheartedly believing something other fans have told them, especially if it's a fan with a following (not gonna name any names). In a good portion of the cases I've seen, the fans will completely make up their minds based on what those "influencer fans" have said, and will not be open to other opinions, even with direct proof that contradicts their stance. There's a reason why misinformation is so rampant in the Dragon Ball fandom as a whole, and part of it is that people do indeed take fans' statements as gospel sometimes.

Are you sure people aren't just taking the piss?

Yes. Again, I don't want to name any names, but in particular I've got one specific case from the ToP in mind. The misguided belief was that fighters who fell off the arena would get erased instantly. I can promise you it was something that the "influencer fan" who made the post believed (because it was someone I'm acquainted with so it was literally just a matter of asking), and plenty of people did immediately and unironically buy into it.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Actually, it is a bit of a problem around the internet where people aren't as critical and analytical as here. It happens more often than I'd like to see; fans immediately and wholeheartedly believing something other fans have told them, especially if it's a fan with a following (not gonna name any names). In a good portion of the cases I've seen, the fans will completely make up their minds based on what those "influencer fans" have said, and will not be open to other opinions, even with direct proof that contradicts their stance. There's a reason why misinformation is so rampant in the Dragon Ball fandom as a whole, and part of it is that people do indeed take fans' statements as gospel sometimes.

Are you sure people aren't just taking the piss?

Yes. Again, I don't want to name any names, but in particular I've got one specific case from the ToP in mind. The misguided belief was that fighters who fell off the arena would get erased instantly. I can promise you it was something that the "influencer fan" who made the post believed (because it was someone I'm acquainted with so it was literally just a matter of asking), and plenty of people did immediately and unironically buy into it.

But we could see them sitting in the stands...

[Alruneia]

Are you sure people aren't just taking the piss?

Yes. Again, I don't want to name any names, but in particular I've got one specific case from the ToP in mind. The misguided belief was that fighters who fell off the arena would get erased instantly. I can promise you it was something that the "influencer fan" who made the post believed (because it was someone I'm acquainted with so it was literally just a matter of asking), and plenty of people did immediately and unironically buy into it.

But we could see them sitting in the stands...

This was before the tournament had started in the anime, the characters hadn't arrived at the arena yet. It was during the Goku and Frieza episodes, if I recall correctly, at roughly the same time as the whole "Frieza will defect to another universe according to leaked episode titles" debacle (not that he might, which we did see in the episodes, but that he would). Which made the idea that much harder to actually disprove, because the best evidence to the contrary was just that no official source had actually said it. The anime did eventually prove it wrong like you mention, but that wasn't until a few weeks after.
But this kinda feels like we're slipping off topic. Reminiscing about weird fan theories that people believed in for a period of time before they were proven false could probably be its own thread entirely.