"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Xeogran]

And then, of course, there's Toriyama himself saying it's possible to bring him back.

Uhh looks like the interview already got retconned

[LightBing]

And then, of course, there's Toriyama himself saying it's possible to bring him back.

Uhh looks like the interview already got retconned

You shouldn't take this literally. Toriyama means they aren't together as a family, once in a while they should be in the same vicinity.

[YamiGoku]

Maybe Gas fell in love with Bardock, but then Bardock rejected him and broke his heart...

[PurestEvil]

Maybe Gas fell in love with Bardock, but then Bardock rejected him and broke his heart...

Not another Bardock extramarital love theory...

[dbgtFO]

Maybe Gas fell in love with Bardock, but then Bardock rejected him and broke his heart...

Not another Bardock extramarital love theory...

Yes why not more?
Turns out the REAL reason Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta wasn't because he feared a Saiyan uprising or the Super Saiyan.
It's because Bardock's ruggedly handsomeness made him feel a kind of way and so to rid himself of shameful thoughts, he saw no other way out than destroying the lot of them.

[PurestEvil]

Maybe Gas fell in love with Bardock, but then Bardock rejected him and broke his heart...

Not another Bardock extramarital love theory...

Yes why not more?
Turns out the REAL reason Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta wasn't because he feared a Saiyan uprising or the Super Saiyan.
It's because Bardock's ruggedly handsomeness made him feel a kind of way and so to rid himself of shameful thoughts, he saw no other way out than destroying the lot of them.

Freeza (in Ayers' voice): Thanks to that wild--haired monkey, I am saddled with unnecessary...feelings...

[Luso Saiyan]

Uhh looks like the interview already got retconned

That's assuming Raditz is there to begin with.

[Grimlock]

Uhh looks like the interview already got retconned

Yes... or no. It depends on how you interpret Toriyama's sentence.

However, the one thing that truly has been "retconned" is the "Saiyans kids don't play" information, since in that very panel you posted, we see Raditz playing.

[BWri]

Uhh looks like the interview already got retconned

Yes... or no. It depends on how you interpret Toriyama's sentence.

However, the one thing that truly has been "retconned" is the "Saiyans kids don't play" information, since in that very panel you posted, we see Raditz playing.

If #2 is so clearly retconned, I think its safe to say that #1 is as well, no interpretation necessary.

[PurestEvil]

How can an author’s comment be retconned when it is not a part of their actual story?

[BWri]

How can an author’s comment be retconned when it is not a part of their actual story?

Because this is how this particular author expands his story. But to your point, maybe we shouldn't adhere to these statements since they are frequently dropped or ignored.

[TKA]

It's not rocket surgery. Things Toriyama says are truthful in the moment until he goes back on them, either in a future interview or in the story. It's not complicated.

But also, don't take things so literally. Saiyans are independent and are always going out on missions far away from home. In DBS Broly, we see Raditz out with Vegeta on some distant planet. They're probably not a family unit in the traditional sense we're used to.

[Ziegander]

Gas seems pretty confident in his abilities as they stand (despite that his confidence may be misplaced). He reacts to the Bardock encounter as if it was a fluke; that he has always been stronger. This is not necessarily a prediction, but if he had one wish, he could conceivably wish back Bardock so he could prove his superiority. Elec wouldn't permit that wish, and I'm definitely not on the "bring Bardock back to life" train, but that's my analysis based on the little we know about Gas.

I have also thought of this scenario. It would be crazy.

But really, how can Gas be stronger than Goku, Vegeta and Granolah? That would be quite dumb.

And he also looked quite confident in the past, yet he lost to Bardock of all people. A low-class warrior. If he lost to Freeza, that would be another thing. But Bardock? Come on. Gas is just a delusional character.

I think if they really want to revive Bardock, maybe they will do it with a second wish by the Heeters. Say, Gas is powered up by a wish and is able to beat everyone also due to them being very tired from the fight, but they are able to escape through Goku teleporting them away,
Left alone on Cereal, and power-drunk, he decides to have revenge on Bardock and thus collects the DBs once again to revive him, maybe going against his family which might have planned to first power up Gas so that he can kill everyone and then allow them to collect the DBs without opposition, to get infinite wishes with the Dragon.

I'm calling it right now, Elec plans to gather the dragon balls to wish for, who the hell knows what, but NOT for Gas to become the strongest in the universe, but the clincher here is that Gas ALSO knows that Elec doesn't trust Gas's strength. It's a sore spot for him because of the humiliating defeat he was put through all those decades past. Elec knows Gas has gotten exponentially stronger since then, but he won't let Gas fight Granolah, because he doesn't want Gas to lose like that again. Gas knows his brother has lost faith in him as the strongman of the group, so, when Elec gathers the dragon balls and means to use them for whatever wish he had planned all along, Gas usurps the wish and wishes to be the strongest fighter in the universe, etc, etc.

TL;DR - The embarrassment Gas suffered in the past, coupled with the loss of faith Elec has had in Gas' fighting abilities will cause Gas to screw up the Heeters' wish.

[Grimlock]

If #2 is so clearly retconned, I think its safe to say that #1 is as well, no interpretation necessary.

It kind of is, though. What did Toriyama mean by "together"? All three of them staring at Goku at the same time? If that's the case, then Toriyama's correct, all four of them were never together. When Raditz first saw Goku, Bardock was not there. Here's Bardock's first look at Goku, Raditz is not exactly there.

From an out-universe perspective, maybe Toriyama meant "you won't see Bardock, Gine, Raditz and Goku in the same panel/so close together". Which also fits here, we see only Raditz (a bit away), Bardock and Gine. Goku is nowhere to be seen.

This is all technicalities, but one that ensures an ambiguity of Toriyama's line and its possible contradiction. Really, this all depends on how you want to see/interpret the situation.

It's not, by any means, related to the "Saiyans kids don't play". Toriyama outright stated they don't do a certain thing, but we see a kid doing exactly that. No ambiguity here whatsoever.

How can an author’s comment be retconned when it is not a part of their actual story?

You should probably add that to your view of "canon": some people will take into consideration an author's comment, as if it's already established in the story and some will not.

It's part of my question "is there any rules?" as in: "is there a rule which state we should/shouldn't take into consideration an author's comment and apply it to the story?". But because we won't ever get a definitive answer on this, we're bound to have different views regarding this either.

[PurestEvil]

How can an author’s comment be retconned when it is not a part of their actual story?

You should probably add that to your view of "canon": some people will take into consideration an author's comment, as if it's already established in the story and some will not.

It's part of my question "is there any rules?" as in: "is there a rule which state we should/shouldn't take into consideration an author's comment and apply it to the story?". But because we won't ever get a definitive answer on this, we're bound to have different views regarding this either.

I thought it was common sense throughout every fandom that an author’s extra-universal comments were technically not a part of a story because they were not incorporated into their work

[Xeogran]

I thought it was common sense throughout every fandom that an author’s extra-universal comments were technically not a part of a story because they were not incorporated into their work

S-Cells? Never mentioned in the series but people already use them to explain some of the transformations occurences.
Same with Lapis and Lazuli's names, only revealed through an Interivew.

[PurestEvil]

I thought it was common sense throughout every fandom that an author’s extra-universal comments were technically not a part of a story because they were not incorporated into their work

S-Cells? Never mentioned in the series but people already use them to explain some of the transformations occurences.
Same with Lapis and Lazuli's names, only revealed through an Interivew.

Well that's a shame, innit? Should've written that down earlier...

[Hugo Boss]

I thought it was common sense throughout every fandom that an author’s extra-universal comments were technically not a part of a story because they were not incorporated into their work

Kanzenshuu doesn’t encourage common sense or consensus. It actually encourages you to have a conversation and expose your view as clear as you can be.

[Mr Baggins]

Same with Lapis and Lazuli's names, only revealed through an Interivew.

Lapis and Lazuli are mentioned in DBZ Kakarot. I'd say their names are now beyond the point of being interview-only material.

During his interview with Nakatsuru, Toriyama mentioned he routinely kept a lot of unwritten rules and notes in his head during the original run so as not to bog down the story with too much exposition. It's hasty to say that any of this stuff should be ignored outright, but it's flexible enough to be overwritten in the future.

[TKA]

During his interview with Nakatsuru, Toriyama mentioned he routinely kept a lot of unwritten rules and notes in his head so as not to bog down the story with too much exposition.

Stuff like this is why I insist that the original creators are irreplaceable. They know the work in a way literally nobody else does. This is probably the most literal interpretation of that; literal rules that nobody but Toriyama would know.