Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[KentMan]

Actually, this just says that Goku is improving after his battles against Jiren and Broly. It’s not saying the enemies he fought in the manga are weaker than them.

Nope it refers to these two one of whom is stronger than Beerus and the other that is probably stronger. That’s admitting that Gas and Granolah are higher than Beerus if that’s the case.

[Hugo Boss]

Actually, this just says that Goku is improving after his battles against Jiren and Broly. It’s not saying the enemies he fought in the manga are weaker than them.

Nope it refers to these two one of whom is stronger than Beerus and the other that is probably stronger. That’s admitting that Gas and Granolah are higher than Beerus if that’s the case.

I’m not sure if you understood what I said, but this has no relation to the Beerus vs. Broly vs. Jiren vs. Moro vs. Granolah vs. Gas discussion. It’s really just saying that Goku is getting stronger after those fights.

You are literally the only person that is reading it like that. Everyone else debates why it’s ignoring the enemies he fought in the manga that come chronologically after Jiren and Broly. Their strength is not the issue here.

Probably it’s because it’s targeting a broader audience, since the people that read manga are very few in comparison to the people that watch anime.

[Jack Bz]

Actually, this just says that Goku is improving after his battles against Jiren and Broly. It’s not saying the enemies he fought in the manga are weaker than them.

Nope it refers to these two one of whom is stronger than Beerus and the other that is probably stronger. That’s admitting that Gas and Granolah are higher than Beerus if that’s the case.

Even if Broly, Jiren, Gas, and Granolah are all stronger than Beerus, this short character bio says literally nothing at all in support of that. It is saying that Goku has improved and is still improving since his fights with Jiren and Broly, the last 2 antagonists that most of the people seeing this film will know of.

Your esoteric interpretations of statements are not as obvious and self-evident as you think they are.

[KentMan]

I’m not sure if you understood what I said, but this has no relation to the Beerus vs. Broly vs. Jiren vs. Moro vs. Granolah vs. Gas discussion. It’s really just saying that Goku is getting stronger after those fights.

You are literally the only person that is reading it like that. Everyone else debates why it’s ignoring the enemies he fought in the manga that come chronologically after Jiren and Broly. Their strength is not the issue here.

I don’t remember Jiren losing to MUI Goku like Moro 73 did. He was able to beat him without using his super full power. Gas and Granolah I don’t know because they’re spoilers of who knows what will happen with those two. It took UI to weaken Jiren and it took a fusion dance to make Broly look like a child. Goku getting stronger is ambiguous as to how much.

Even if Broly, Jiren, Gas, and Granolah are all stronger than Beerus, this short character bio says literally nothing at all in support of that. It is saying that Goku has improved and is still improving since his fights with Jiren and Broly, the last 2 antagonists that most of the people seeing this film will know of.

Your esoteric interpretations of statements are not as obvious and self-evident as you think they are.

Even if? What’s with all the doubting all of a sudden? I though Beerus here was being put higher by everyone. There is something to be said about these two there’s a reason why Uchida mentioned Broly in that interview. The fact that these two are being put in the same sentence says a lot of their power. And look who isn’t mentioned Beerus.

[Hugo Boss]

Look, you can have whatever opinion you want about Beerus or Broly, but this bio is really just citing the last enemies that Goku fought in the anime/movie continuity. It wouldn’t make sense to mention Beerus here, because he fought him a long while ago. And Goku is always getting stronger, this is not supposed to be a big deal.

Besides, Vegeta’s character bio implies Whis is still his master, while the manga has him being trained by Beerus. This implies they are avoiding mentioning any exclusive-manga-content, hopefully because they want to adapt it in other animated project.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Look, you can have whatever opinion you want about Beerus or Broly, but this bio is really just citing the last enemies that Goku fought in the anime/movie continuity. It wouldn’t make sense to mention Beerus here, because he fought him a long while ago. And Goku is always getting stronger, this is not supposed to be a big deal.

Besides, Vegeta’s character bio implies Whis is still his master, while the manga has him being trained by Beerus. This implies they are avoiding mentioning any exclusive-manga-content, hopefully because they want to adapt it in other animated project.

Yeah, this is just a bit of a promotional bio to tell people coming into the film about the last major enemies seen on the screen (big or small).

[Skar]

Vegeta training with Beerus could be temporary and could return to training with Whis. He might decide that UE isn't for him by the end of the Granolah arc. I think Toyotaro would only add something knowing it won't conflict with what Toriyama writes later.

[Koitsukai]

I can't even understand how this bio can end up in a powerscaling debate, there's literally nothing there, not even room for a stretch. If anything, it means he is not improving after fighting Moro... which we know it's no true at all, if it were true, Goku would not be fighting Gas now.
So, the fight with Moro doesn't seem to be have happened in the movie continuity. It's not rocket science, really, it's marketing.

Vegeta training with Beerus could be temporary and could return to training with Whis. He might decide that UE isn't for him by the end of the Granolah arc. I think Toyotaro would only add something knowing it won't conflict with what Toriyama writes later.

The thing is that Vegeta stopped training with Whis a looong time ago. Well, out of universe long time ago, in-universe, by the ToP he was no longer training under him, he fought Beerus after the FT arc, and told them he wouldn't be coming over for a while. And he returned to that planet to be trained by Beerus like 40 chapters later.
Out of 80 chapters, he spent like 25 with Whis, 40 on his own and 15 under Beerus.
Geet's bio seems more like his general description of the DBS anime.

I think Vegeta will no longer be trained by Beerus, mostly because Beerus ain't going to keep on training him, he already did his job. It was more like a hakaishin bootcamp or seminar.
If he goes back to Whis, he would be stepping all over his decision against Jiren, to leave UI for Goku because it doesn't suit him at all. I'm convinced the manga's development aren't going to be taken into account.

[Skar]

If he goes back to Whis, he would be stepping all over his decision against Jiren, to leave UI for Goku because it doesn't suit him at all. I'm convinced the manga's development aren't going to be taken into account.

Vegeta going down his own path might've been a manga/anime-only idea since Toei created Blue Evolution and Toyotaro created UE. He only had Blue in Broly so the forms that weren't created by Toriyama himself might not appear or acknowledged in any of the films.

[KentMan]

If you guys had seen the trailer it looks like Beerus might be involved in the sparring match possibly. So i wouldn’t be assuming that UE isn’t canon to Toriyama because it is.

[Skar]

If you guys had seen the trailer it looks like Beerus might be involved in the sparring match possibly. So i wouldn’t be assuming that UE isn’t canon to Toriyama because it is.

Do you mean UE will appear in Super Hero? I don't think Blue Evolution and UE are "non-canon" since they still exist in an official continuity just probably not the one Toriyama is using for the films. It's possible we barely see Goku and Vegeta and they won't transform at all in Super Hero.

[KentMan]

If you guys had seen the trailer it looks like Beerus might be involved in the sparring match possibly. So i wouldn’t be assuming that UE isn’t canon to Toriyama because it is.

Do you mean UE will appear in Super Hero? I don't think Blue Evolution and UE are "non-canon" since they still exist in an official continuity just probably not the one Toriyama is using for the films. It's possible we barely see Goku and Vegeta and they won't transform at all in Super Hero.

True but if they’re sparring in their base forms that’s a sign about how strong they have gotten

[Skar]

True but if they’re sparring in their base forms that’s a sign about how strong they have gotten

Well how would we measure that? I recall almost every arc starts with them training in base with Whis.

[KentMan]

True but if they’re sparring in their base forms that’s a sign about how strong they have gotten

Well how would we measure that? I recall almost every arc starts with them training in base with Whis.

They are sparring with Broly so that might be a good indicator of how Strong they’ve gotten in their base

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Any predictions on how powerful Ultimate Piccolo will be?

I'm thinking he will be on par with Ultimate Gohan.

Ultimate isn’t the official name, is it? Because that doesn’t look like anything related to Old Kaioshin’s ritual at all.

Anyway, I think he’ll be right behind Ultimate Gohan. Gohan should be just a hair stronger out of protagonism.

As for how they compare to others. Maybe it’s just my bias against the manga’s ever declining quality, but I’m going to scale it to the anime continuity. The anime is always what gets all the attention in games and spin offs anyway. So Gohan should be stronger than ToP Goku, probably comparable to Goku in later stages of the ToP.

Yamcha has a bigger fanbase than PSG

Ouch.

[ZombieVito]

Any predictions on how powerful Ultimate Piccolo will be?

I'm thinking he will be on par with Ultimate Gohan.

Ultimate isn’t the official name, is it? Because that doesn’t look like anything related to Old Kaioshin’s ritual at all.

Anyway, I think he’ll be right behind Ultimate Gohan. Gohan should be just a hair stronger out of protagonism.

As for how they compare to others. Maybe it’s just my bias against the manga’s ever declining quality, but I’m going to scale it to the anime continuity. The anime is always what gets all the attention in games and spin offs anyway. So Gohan should be stronger than ToP Goku, probably comparable to Goku in later stages of the ToP.

Yamcha has a bigger fanbase than PSG

Ouch.

The term they used for Piccolo is exactly the same they use for Gohan.

And I agree. Gohan should be stronger than ToP Blue Goku, at least equal to him.

[Skar]

They are sparring with Broly so that might be a good indicator of how Strong they’ve gotten in their base

I think it would be a short friendly sparing match to explain why they aren't on Earth to help. It might not be meant to give a clear indication of their power since Broly would be holding back like Whis when he spared with them in base.

[larzooma]

Any predictions on how powerful Ultimate Piccolo will be?

I'm thinking he will be on par with Ultimate Gohan.

Well if Gohan's max power outside of his Ultimate form is SSJ2, and Piccolo easily overpowered Gohan in that form (at least in the anime) before the ToP, I'm going to say Piccolo's in his Ultimate form is going to be at the same level, if not a bit ahead of Gohan. At least when he first uses the form. I have a feeling Gohan is going to be pushed to a new level to take on the final threat.

I don't think Ultimate is a set multiplier given it's a form achieved when a fighter unlocks his dormant potential. The description for the form in the promo states "manifested the power that had been dormant in Piccolo". Since Gohan and Piccolo most likely have different levels of dormant power, I'm guessing the gain is unique to each person.

[Thani]

Any predictions on how powerful Ultimate Piccolo will be?

I'm thinking he will be on par with Ultimate Gohan.

Well if Gohan's max power outside of his Ultimate form is SSJ2, and Piccolo easily overpowered Gohan in that form (at least in the anime) before the ToP, I'm going to say Piccolo's in his Ultimate form is going to be at the same level, if not a bit ahead of Gohan. At least when he first uses the form. I have a feeling Gohan is going to be pushed to a new level to take on the final threat.

I don't think Ultimate is a set multiplier given it's a form achieved when a fighter unlocks his dormant potential. The description for the form in the promo states "manifested the power that had been dormant in Piccolo". Since Gohan and Piccolo most likely have different levels of dormant power, I'm guessing the gain is unique to each person.

This. Hence it also being called "potential unleashed".

So Piccolo's potential unleashed state may not even be much stronger than what he was when he bested SS2 Gohan. Although I hope it is.

[larzooma]

Any predictions on how powerful Ultimate Piccolo will be?

I'm thinking he will be on par with Ultimate Gohan.

Well if Gohan's max power outside of his Ultimate form is SSJ2, and Piccolo easily overpowered Gohan in that form (at least in the anime) before the ToP, I'm going to say Piccolo's in his Ultimate form is going to be at the same level, if not a bit ahead of Gohan. At least when he first uses the form. I have a feeling Gohan is going to be pushed to a new level to take on the final threat.

I don't think Ultimate is a set multiplier given it's a form achieved when a fighter unlocks his dormant potential. The description for the form in the promo states "manifested the power that had been dormant in Piccolo". Since Gohan and Piccolo most likely have different levels of dormant power, I'm guessing the gain is unique to each person.

This. Hence it also being called "potential unleashed".

So Piccolo's potential unleashed state may not even be much stronger than what he was when he bested SS2 Gohan. Although I hope it is.

Well, from Goku's comment in the Moro arc, both Gohan and Piccolo have made noticeable gains since the ToP. I can't imagine they're giving him a new form based on unlocking his dormant power and it basically amounts to some Ki he didn't know he had in his right leg, resulting in a minor boost. I can see him accessing something based on his origins as the Nameless Namekian. He's always been a unique member of his race who far exceeded any other Namekian we've ever seen.