The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[GreatSaiyaman123]

In the manga we don't see this and thus it's not stated to be anything special. Just that it's a strong Goku.

The manga actually skips this bit altogether.

Spoiler:

Surprised more people haven't mentioned Gogeta potentially using the Kaioken. Is even a twenty times amplification not enough to match or overcome Semi-Cell here?

I’m not sure how strong Gogeta ends up being besides weaker than 100% Freeza, but I think he’s probably in the lower end and would end between 16 and Semi Cell with Kaio-Ken.

[TobyS]

Surprised more people haven't mentioned Gogeta potentially using the Kaioken. Is even a twenty times amplification not enough to match or overcome Semi-Cell here?

Ah you are right, if this is END of Namek Saga then Gogeta is SS1 level, with KKx20 yeah he can take anyone except maybe a couple of the very biggest Buu's

[MrGohanks]

SSJ1 Vegito (Early Android arc) vs Buuhan

SSG Goku (DBS Broly) vs Base Toppo (anime)

Piccolo (Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Caulifla

Base Gogeta (Cell Games) vs SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)

Krillin, Tien and Yamcha (Buu saga) vs Base Vegeta (End of Namek arc)

[Mireya]

SSJ Goku vs Freeza [100%]. How close do you see the fight? I see it as decently close. Goku was clearly superior and took the status of strongest from Freeza, but it was clearly competitive at some extent until Freeza's stamina began to fall. Goku didn't have an easy time.

[Mireya]

Well, I created it in the in-universe section because this isn't really a vs match, rather it's an evaluation of how close the fight was... we know who won. But OK.

[Lionel]

SSJ1 Vegito (Early Android arc) vs Buuhan

SSG Goku (DBS Broly) vs Base Toppo (anime)

Piccolo (Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Caulifla

Base Gogeta (Cell Games) vs SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)

Krillin, Tien and Yamcha (Buu saga) vs Base Vegeta (End of Namek arc)

SSJ1 Vegito (Early Android arc) vs Buuhan: I think this match up easily goes to Buuhan. Vegetto was towering above his opponent during their fight but it's not like he wasn't putting effort in at several points to attack Buu. A fusion from this prior era might see a Vegetto who can defeat the SSJ2 level opponents, perhaps even the weaker SSJ3 standard ones but I wouldn't go much higher than that.

SSG Goku (DBS Broly) vs Base Toppo (anime): Wasn't Toppo capable of emitting power that seemed on par with Goku's projected blue Kaioken combination? I'm not sure if Goku improved enough between arcs for such a power upsurge to be overtaken by the red form after just one arc. I'm going to side with Toppo here.

Piccolo (Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Caulifla : A manga/anime comparison. Well we see Piccolo demonstrate what seems to be close parity with Gohan's efforts during the fights against Seven-Three and Moro. We don't know the exact condition of Gohan's strength prior to their most recent collaboration with each other but I assume it remained superior to the individual fusees of Kefla. I believe Piccolo could have benefited enough from working with Gohan to have overcome the golden forms from the Tournament of Power. If anything the fact that Goku seemed to need blue for adequately damaging an enhanced Saganbo says to me that perhaps Gohan, and by extension Piccolo, may have superior to SSJ3 Goku from the Moro arc, perhaps close to SSJG if that's even possible.

I say Piccolo easily takes this.

Base Gogeta (Cell Games) vs SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games): Stronger than the sum parts of the fusion, was it? Well regardless since Kaioken wasn't prohibited I believe Gogeta easily takes this.

Krillin, Tien and Yamcha (Buu saga) vs Base Vegeta (End of Namek arc): Humans easily. Krillin and Yamcha ceased training following the Cell arc but I believe the former along with Tenshinhan surpassed all the base Saiyans from the Freeza era; possibly Yamcha as well. Chaozu is the only one I'm uncertain of though with his paralysis arts who knows.

SSJ Goku vs Freeza [100%]. How close do you see the fight? I see it as decently close. Goku was clearly superior and took the status of strongest from Freeza, but it was clearly competitive at some extent until Freeza's stamina began to fall. Goku didn't have an easy time.

It's an interesting power dynamic when you think about the projections made for Goku and Freeza. One is a quarter amount superior overall to the other. How was Freeza able to muster up such an impressive resistance? I can only speculate that while the Super Saiyan transformation rejuvenated Goku's body and stamina it didn't return him to top physical shape. Perhaps in the midst of the actual fight his power level was something like 130-140 million. Freeza had also probably lost strength in the fighting leading up to that moment, most prominently when besieged by the Spirit Bomb, but it was likely nothing as what Goku was going through.

[Koitsukai]

SSJ1 Vegito (Early Android arc) vs Buuhan

SSG Goku (DBS Broly) vs Base Toppo (anime)

Piccolo (Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Caulifla

Base Gogeta (Cell Games) vs SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)

Krillin, Tien and Yamcha (Buu saga) vs Base Vegeta (End of Namek arc)

1) If we assume base Vegito from the Buu arc was around SS3 Goku, then if he were on SS Vegeta's level from when Android 18 kicked his ass, he is not beating Buuhan with SS.
If Vegito's base is 300M, with SS he'd be 15,000 M, which I'd say would be below Fat Buu, but above Majin Vegeta.

2) Toppo. He was on the hightest end of SSB level, Goku didn't get that much stronger just one arc later. He still needs SSB and probably KK, too.

3) I think the movie will clear this up, but I don't think Piccolo is stronger than a SS2 that should be even above Buu arc SS2 level. Until I watch the movie, I won't be certain about where he stands.

4) Gogeta would need KK to not get stomped, and even then he should still not be on Gohan's level, and require more KK. His base form should be as strong as SS Goku, who was weaker than SS Gohan, so the gap between them is more than 2x. Without KK, Gogeta wouldn't last one punch.

5) Tenshinhan's Shin Kikoho should kill Vegeta. The thing is if the other guys can hold him long enough for the attack to land. I think they can distract Vegeta long enough for it to work.

SSJ Goku vs Freeza [100%]. How close do you see the fight? I see it as decently close. Goku was clearly superior and took the status of strongest from Freeza, but it was clearly competitive at some extent until Freeza's stamina began to fall. Goku didn't have an easy time.

It was closer than what the official numbers implied, it was also closer in the anime, in the manga while it isn't a stomp, Goku's superiority is clearer.
Maybe 150 vs 120 works for the final portion of the fight, but when the fight got heavy, to me the official gap just doesn't work. It's too big of a gap for people that were trading blows and sending each other flying away. 150 vs 140-145? or 120 vs 125, I dunno. Specially for the anime where Freeza actually had the edge for a few moments.

[Mireya]

Yeah and you guys would agree too that Freeza was more impressive against ssj Goku than handsome Zarbon was to 24k Vegeta, right? Zarbon couldn't land a hand on Vegeta, while Freeza got in a decent few blows. If the Daizenshuu pegs Zarbon at 95% of Vegeta, I don't know why the team of Daiz distanced Goku and Freeza so much. Freeza also stated "he'd lose even more power" right after the sky went dark when he thought he was done with Goku.

[ZombieVito]

SSJ1 Vegito (Early Android arc) vs Buuhan

SSG Goku (DBS Broly) vs Base Toppo (anime)

Piccolo (Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Caulifla

Base Gogeta (Cell Games) vs SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)

Krillin, Tien and Yamcha (Buu saga) vs Base Vegeta (End of Namek arc)

Buuhan one shots.
Toppo finger flicks.
Caulifla. It appears based on Super Hero trailers, Piccolo is no stronger than current SS tier in his base form.
Gohan. At best I would have base Gogeta at SS tier. Edit: With Kaioken, Gogeta can win.
Krillin alone one shots him.

Yeah and you guys would agree too that Freeza was more impressive against ssj Goku than handsome Zarbon was to 24k Vegeta, right? Zarbon couldn't land a hand on Vegeta, while Freeza got in a decent few blows. If the Daizenshuu pegs Zarbon at 95% of Vegeta, I don't know why the team of Daiz distanced Goku and Freeza so much. Freeza also stated "he'd lose even more power" right after the sky went dark when he thought he was done with Goku.

Because not everything on a fight are gaps. There are skill, technique and other things to consider. I'm sure Freeza's OP endurance made up for the gap between him and Goku.

[Mireya]

SSJ1 Vegito (Early Android arc) vs Buuhan

SSG Goku (DBS Broly) vs Base Toppo (anime)

Piccolo (Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Caulifla

Base Gogeta (Cell Games) vs SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)

Krillin, Tien and Yamcha (Buu saga) vs Base Vegeta (End of Namek arc)

Buuhan one shots.
Toppo finger flicks.
Caulifla. It appears based on Super Hero trailers, Piccolo is no stronger than current SS tier in his base form.
Gohan. At best I would have base Gogeta at SS tier. Edit: With Kaioken, Gogeta can win.
Krillin alone one shots him.

Yeah and you guys would agree too that Freeza was more impressive against ssj Goku than handsome Zarbon was to 24k Vegeta, right? Zarbon couldn't land a hand on Vegeta, while Freeza got in a decent few blows. If the Daizenshuu pegs Zarbon at 95% of Vegeta, I don't know why the team of Daiz distanced Goku and Freeza so much. Freeza also stated "he'd lose even more power" right after the sky went dark when he thought he was done with Goku.

Because not everything on a fight are gaps. There are skill, technique and other things to consider. I'm sure Freeza's OP endurance made up for the gap between him and Goku.

It was said in Super that Freeza never trained in his life, so I'm not sure of what skills you're referring to. Freeza seems to have op endurance, but that for itself doesn't explain his performance of landing hits on Goku and having his attack almost stalemate the KMHMH. At the end of the fight Goku even suggested for Freeza, in case of a rematch, for him to polish his skills and better his stamina. Notice he mentions skills and not power... which goes the opposite way of your point. Vegeta could easily catch Zarbon's punch, throw him in mid-air, deflect his attack (albeit using a good deal of effort) and then punch him in the face, dodge easily all his kicks attempts, kick him to the ground and move so fast, speedblitz him and kick him into the mud. Zarbon landed a total of 0 hits. Vegeta didn't even mention Zarbon's skills, he just said it looked like Zarbon was standing still, clearly highlighting a speed deficit. I don't know why I'd interpret that, numerically, as closer than Goku and Freeza. If Zarbon were 90% of Vegeta, which I think it's fair, Freeza could very well be a 94% or so. Goku had the upper hand, but it was clearly closer than many other fights.

[Goku9001]

Yeah and you guys would agree too that Freeza was more impressive against ssj Goku than handsome Zarbon was to 24k Vegeta, right? Zarbon couldn't land a hand on Vegeta, while Freeza got in a decent few blows. If the Daizenshuu pegs Zarbon at 95% of Vegeta, I don't know why the team of Daiz distanced Goku and Freeza so much. Freeza also stated "he'd lose even more power" right after the sky went dark when he thought he was done with Goku.

I would agree that the 150 vs. 120 gap is far too large. I always viewed it as a 150 vs. 140 gap with Frieza's power eventually dropping to 120 once his stamina tanked completely. Frieza was capable of pushing back Goku's full powered Kamehameha with his Nova Strike and still traded blows back and forth with SSJ Goku even after admitting that his stamina had fallen after using the Nova Strike. Goku still had a clear edge since he withstood Frieza's initial beating with minimal damage, easily countered Frieza's blindside attack, and Frieza questioned if Goku was a zombie after taking a direct hit from his Nova Strike. However, the gap definitely isn't that large. I always thought 140 vs. 150 was appropriate.

[Lionel]

Let me try some more versus match ups.

Super Kaioken Goku (Android arc but healthy; maintainable), Majin Vegeta (Android arc), Piccolo (post Kami fusion), SSJ Trunks (Android arc) and Tenshinhan (Shin Kikoho) vs #16, #17, and #18

Chaozu (Buu arc) vs Pui Pui

Majuub (Baby saga; Kaioken x10) vs SSJ4 Goku (Baby saga)

Hit (manga U6 Tournament arc) vs #17 (TOP manga)

SSJ3 Goku (Moro arc) vs Saganbo (powered up by Moro)

Made some clarification edits

[Yuji]

Let me try some more versus match ups.

SSJ Kaioken Goku (Android arc; maintainable), Majin Vegeta (Android arc), Piccolo (post Kami fusion), SSJ Trunks (Android arc) and Tenshinhan (Shin Kikoho) vs #16, #17, and #18

Assuming Goku can only use up to 2x, he's still dying from his illness. Assuming this is when he was cured before entering the ROSAT, I think this would put him on par with 16.

Piccolo and 17 cancel each other out as we saw.

I think the remaining three can take out 18 by themselves and then help out with the other two stalemates if Goku and Piccolo can hold out long enough. The Majin boost shouldn't be enough for Vegeta to win or even be comparable, but the Shin Kikoho is the deciding factor here. It should be able to immobilize 18 if Tenshinhan catches her off-guard and then the other two can finish her off.

Chaozu (Buu arc) vs Pui Pui

Chaozu probably didn't get significantly stronger from the Saiyan arc. Even taking the Namek filler at face value, he should be comparable to the Ginyu Force. Pui Pui was a fool who thought 10x gravity was impressive but he was nevertheless thought to be a threat by Shin. I would think he's at least as strong as first form Freeza, so he should win. I'm not one to downplay the humans, but Chaozu doesn't have much going for him unless we're charitable and assume he trains as hard and improves at a similar rate as Ten.

Majuub (Baby saga; Kaioken x10) vs SSJ4 Goku

Majoob should take this assuming he shares similar stamina to Boo or any kind of regenerative abilities to let him hold Kaioken x10 for a long period of time. Majoob was stronger than SS3 Goku and I think the general perception that SS4 is 10x SS3 scaling from Bebi is correct, so that would still make Majoob stronger than SS4. Goku's experience may let him hold his own against a stronger opponent who's limited by short bursts of power, but I'd still give it to Oob.

Hit (manga U6 Tournament arc) vs #17 (TOP manga)

Hit was arguably outclassed by SSG Goku but at full power pushed Goku to SSB. Goku claims #17 is not far beneath him but all his feats show SS3 holding its own, so I would give it to Hit. The time skip would give him an edge even if we grant that 17 is close to ToP SSB tier.

SSJ3 Goku (Moro arc) vs Saganbo (powered up by Moro)

He keeps getting multiple power ups throughout the arc, but diidn't SS3 Goku get one shot by Saganbo on Namek? Saganbo was also manhandling Gohan and 17 so this one's pretty clear cut.

[ZombieVito]

Let me try some more versus match ups.

Super Kaioken Goku (Android arc but healthy; maintainable), Majin Vegeta (Android arc), Piccolo (post Kami fusion), SSJ Trunks (Android arc) and Tenshinhan (Shin Kikoho) vs #16, #17, and #18

Chaozu (Buu arc) vs Pui Pui

Majuub (Baby saga; Kaioken x10) vs SSJ4 Goku (Baby saga)

Hit (manga U6 Tournament arc) vs #17 (TOP manga)

SSJ3 Goku (Moro arc) vs Saganbo (powered up by Moro)

Made some clarification edits

Team A might pull this off since all of them are fighters and got the androids beat on skills and techniques.
I actually have them at a comparable level (Below 2nd Form Freeza). I give this to Chaoz because of skill.
Goku.
17 one shots since he's Blue tier. Manga Hit was really pathetic in the U6 arc.
Didn't Sanganbo beat Ultimate Gohan? How can SS3 Goku beat someone at high Blue tier?

[Lionel]

Let me try some more versus match ups.

Super Kaioken Goku (Android arc but healthy; maintainable), Majin Vegeta (Android arc), Piccolo (post Kami fusion), SSJ Trunks (Android arc) and Tenshinhan (Shin Kikoho) vs #16, #17, and #18

Chaozu (Buu arc) vs Pui Pui

Majuub (Baby saga; Kaioken x10) vs SSJ4 Goku (Baby saga)

Hit (manga U6 Tournament arc) vs #17 (TOP manga)

SSJ3 Goku (Moro arc) vs Saganbo (powered up by Moro)

Made some clarification edits

Team A might pull this off since all of them are fighters and got the androids beat on skills and techniques.
I actually have them at a comparable level (Below 2nd Form Freeza). I give this to Chaoz because of skill.
Goku.
17 one shots since he's Blue tier. Manga Hit was really pathetic in the U6 arc.
Didn't Sanganbo beat Ultimate Gohan? How can SS3 Goku beat someone at high Blue tier?

The Hit versus #17 match is based on their manga renditions, both of them. About Saganbo, I guess my interpretation must be radically different since it seemed like Goku's blue form was pummelling Saganbo and the red form may have proved too much also.

[Korru]

SSJ1 Vegito (Early Android arc) vs Buuhan

SSG Goku (DBS Broly) vs Base Toppo (anime)

Piccolo (Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Caulifla

Base Gogeta (Cell Games) vs SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)

Krillin, Tien and Yamcha (Buu saga) vs Base Vegeta (End of Namek arc)

1). Buuhan , mismatch
2). Toppo
3). Piccolo because of fighting experience + Caulifla's cockiness ( this is dBs piccolo ? )
4). likely Gogeta
5). Kuririn and Yamcha has experience fighting together. And Tenshenhan can just spam Kikoho to keep Vegeta at bay. The tag team should win quite comfortably

[Korru]

Also ... did anyone see my Versus Post here?

viewtopic.php?p=1739212#p1739212

[Goku9001]

Let me try some more versus match ups.

Super Kaioken Goku (Android arc but healthy; maintainable), Majin Vegeta (Android arc), Piccolo (post Kami fusion), SSJ Trunks (Android arc) and Tenshinhan (Shin Kikoho) vs #16, #17, and #18

Chaozu (Buu arc) vs Pui Pui

Majuub (Baby saga; Kaioken x10) vs SSJ4 Goku (Baby saga)

Hit (manga U6 Tournament arc) vs #17 (TOP manga)

SSJ3 Goku (Moro arc) vs Saganbo (powered up by Moro)

Made some clarification edits

Super Kaioken Goku (Android arc but healthy; maintainable), Majin Vegeta (Android arc), Piccolo (post Kami fusion), SSJ Trunks (Android arc) and Tenshinhan (Shin Kikoho) vs #16, #17, and #18: I would say Team B definitely takes this. I view Android 16 as the strongest competitor in this space. He would be more than capable of battling Goku by himself. Furthermore, Majin Vegeta shouldn't really be that much stronger than how he was in the Android Saga as his strength had already plateau'd. Android 17 should be capable of fighting Piccolo and overcoming him through infinite stamina, Android 16 should be able to overpower Goku, and Android 18 can fight the other Super Saiyans. Tenshinhan is really a nonfactor here.

Chaozu (Buu arc) vs Pui Pui: The power that Babidi sensed from the Base Saiyans should be far greater than whatever Chaozu is capable of. Pui Pui was said to be capable of fighting all of the Saiyans based on the power that Babidi sensed from them. Pui Pui should win here.

Majuub (Baby saga; Kaioken x10) vs SSJ4 Goku (Baby saga): Unsure. Haven't watched GT in years.

Hit (manga U6 Tournament arc) vs #17 (TOP manga): Hit (U6) was much weaker SSJB Goku let alone Perfected SSJB Goku whereas Android 17 was said to be near Perfected SSJB Goku's level towards the end of the Tournament of Power. Time Skip would be useless and Hit gets wrecked.

SSJ3 Goku (Moro arc) vs Saganbo (powered up by Moro): Saganbo should win here. Gohan was already around Perfected SSJB Goku's strength back at the Tournament and grew much stronger since then. Saganbo was much stronger than Gohan. For Goku to win here, SSJ3 Goku (Moro) >> Saganbo (Powered Up) >> Gohan (Moro) >> Perfected SSJB Goku (ToP) would have to be the case. Goku has no issues resorting to lower forms such as the case with Toppo and Granola so the fact that Goku used Super Saiyan Blue from the onset seems to imply that Saganbo would be too difficult to overcome in previous forms. SSJB Goku defeating Saganbo was also meant to convey to the readers just how strong Goku had become regardless of Ultra Instinct. Goku using Super Saiyan God or even Super Saiyan 3 would have done better to illustrate that if SSJ3/God Goku could beat Saganbo.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

SSJ1 Vegito (Early Android arc) vs Buuhan

SSG Goku (DBS Broly) vs Base Toppo (anime)

Piccolo (Moro arc) vs SSJ2 Caulifla

Base Gogeta (Cell Games) vs SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)

Krillin, Tien and Yamcha (Buu saga) vs Base Vegeta (End of Namek arc)

Gohan-Boo finger clicks. Vegetto might be a giant next to Boo, but the gap is nowhere near as big as that between Boo Saga and Android Saga Goku.

Going with Goku here. He does some crazy power leaps in the ToP to a point where I can see him getting 50x stronger.

Kefla should win regardless if this is a anime/manga match up or if this is an hypothetical Manga SSJ2 Kefla. Anime Kefla has the power to destroy a universe, power Piccolo never showed. I think Piccolo is around Manga SSJ1 Kefla at best, so SSJ2 one shots.

Gogeta, easily. I think he might be comparable to Pre Rosat Gotenks here, maybe a bit weaker. Still enough to destroy SSJ2 tiers though.

Right now I think any of the humans could solo, though I change my opinion on this fairly often.

SSJ Goku vs Freeza [100%]. How close do you see the fight? I see it as decently close. Goku was clearly superior and took the status of strongest from Freeza, but it was clearly competitive at some extent until Freeza's stamina began to fall. Goku didn't have an easy time.

I think it was a pretty even fight. I’ve seen people interpret the official numbers in several ways: Maybe the gaps are inconsistent, maybe Goku held back, maybe the fight was a stomp. I’d disagree with all of these ideas though. The fight is fairly quick, but when they finally get to a straight hand to hand combat Freeza holds his own fairly well, even though he’d already been weakened by the Nova Strike. Goku considered it a good fight too, so I doubt he held back.

Let me try some more versus match ups.

Super Kaioken Goku (Android arc but healthy; maintainable), Majin Vegeta (Android arc), Piccolo (post Kami fusion), SSJ Trunks (Android arc) and Tenshinhan (Shin Kikoho) vs #16, #17, and #18

Chaozu (Buu arc) vs Pui Pui

Majuub (Baby saga; Kaioken x10) vs SSJ4 Goku (Baby saga)

Hit (manga U6 Tournament arc) vs #17 (TOP manga)

SSJ3 Goku (Moro arc) vs Saganbo (powered up by Moro)

Made some clarification edits

The team wins. I think this ends up being overkill: Goku and Vegeta would easily end up above the Androids (Though Vegeta’s power is unquantifiable since Babidi’s power up is a potential unlock, though he should at the very least rival 18 with it), and Tenshinhan can immobilize the androids and maybe even kill them. The twins would be disposed of fairly quickly, and unless they let their egos guide them 16 should be disposed of with a good team attack.

Pui Pui laughs and Chaozu is dead. If Kuririn was considered trash by Babidi and Dabra, Chaozu is even less than that.

Probably Goku. I think Oob falls between Base and SSJ Goku, and SSJ4 is probably 10x that.

17 is nearly as strong as PSSJB, while Hit needed his full power to even hope to beat SSJG. Nothing Hit can throw at 17 would work.

Saganbo. With his first power up he knocked Goku clean out of SSJ3, and at his peak Goku needed SSJB to deal with him even after Merus' training.

[ZombieVito]

The Hit versus #17 match is based on their manga renditions, both of them. About Saganbo, I guess my interpretation must be radically different since it seemed like Goku's blue form was pummelling Saganbo and the red form may have proved too much also.

Yes, I know. 17 is Blue tier in the manga as well. Edit: Wait. 17 is actually perfected Blue tier lmao. He finger flicks U6 Hit.

Both Gohan and 17 are Blue tier and Saganbo beat both of them very easily. Goku was vastly stronger when he faced Saganbo on Earth so nothing is contradicted.