your definition of the "definitive" DBZ home release

[Super Kal]

first off, if this has already been talked about, i apologize, and mods feel free to either merge the thread or delete it, however, if it hasnt been discussed...

as a DBZ fan myself, I think I can say that, with the exception of a few, the majority of DBZ fans are upset, disappointed, and downright angry at how Funimation is treating this series. I recently received DBZ Season 3 in the steel-book version (the 30th anniversary), and while I am grateful for my loving mother, after watching the first episode of the season, episode 75, I can actually see why people hate this release so much... the scene where Vegeta is walking away from Gohan while outside Frieza's spaceship sitting on the dragonballs, admiring himself in the Saiyan armor, while Vegeta walks away, the amount of artifacts you see that appears next to Vegeta's shoulders and side...
it's horrendous. Terrible. Ghastly. Bad. VERY BAD. I find it incredibly hard to believe that any individual who was working on this release would see that and say "uh-huh! Yep! That's a keeper! BRILLIANT! WONDERFUL! I'm a GENIUS! Put it in a steel-book, use "definitive" to describe it! WE GOT A KEEPER HERE, FOLKS! "... i mean, come on... this is just one instance that I've seen, and I'm genuinely afraid to watch the rest...
but honestly, this led me to thinking: if I was given the chance at a issuing an actual "definitive" home release for the series, a release that actually lives up to that word, what would I do? I'd have to think about that, honestly, because there's so much to consider, but that also got me thinking:

if you were given that opportunity to make the "definitive" home release, what would you do?
would you make it a standalone blu-ray release, a standalone DVD release, or make both?
would you only include the japanese audio, or include english audio as well?
would you retain the 4:3 format of the show, or use the 16:9 widescreen format?
would you include the original Funimation broadcast audio, or would you altogether skip that audio track?
would you include other english audios, such as the Ocean dub, or the Westwood Dub, as an option?

I know for some fans, the "definitive" version has already been released via the Dragon Box release, and i respect that opinion, and for a time I even thought it was the "definitive" release, but my own personal thoughts have changed a bit since then, which brings up another question:

if there was a "definitive" version that was released, what was it?
what would you have done to make it even better, if that were possible?

i am aware of iKaos and the version he has released, but i dont want to mention any more than what i said because i dont know if that topic is allowed to be talked about on this forum, because it can lead to an act some would consider illegal in the eyes of some...

but in any case, if given that opportunity, what would you do?

[jjgp1112]

Y'know out of all the crappy releases, the 30th set still pisses me off the most. The single most insulting thing they ever did was add fake grain to the smeared, watercolory DVNR picture

[Masquerade]

My version that will be released in entirely to Archive.org in the Year of our Dead Christ 2026 if someone's willing to cut Japanese audio & subs to my edit.

[MasenkoHA]

The Dragon Boxes but at Orange Brick prices

[Gilby1385]

A spruced-up version of the Japanese Dragon Box Z sets with the bonus features and everything, but also including:
-Pretty much all of the Z-related stuff talked about on this page: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/features/my- ... t-perfect/
-The HQ Japanese broadcast audio
-The original 4:3 aspect ratio with NO CROPPING AND NO DVNR
-Possibly all the next episode previews from the original Fuji broadcasts that advertise the movies
-The original U.S. broadcast versions of the in-house FUNimation dubs (with all recaps and previews intact) and their uncut versions, possibly also including retakes from releases such as the Orange Bricks
-Maybe the Ocean edits of said dub
-The alternate Westwood dub of episodes 123-291
-The AB Groupe dub of the specials
-The Speedy dub for some of the episodes
-The Creative Products dub of episodes 1-35
-The edited Saban/Ocean dub of episodes 1-53/67
-All creditless OPs and EDs
-The Terebikko game, functions like an actual DVD game
-Maybe the bonus features from other home releases
-Possibly the promos and bumpers from the Saban syndication era and Toonami USA/UK airings
-Additional foreign language dubs could also be included depending on the regional versions, for example the North American releases could have the French, (the Quebec dub of "The World of Dragon Ball Z" from the Kraft Dinner DVD, and the France-produced S.O.F.I. dub otherwise), Latin American Spanish and Brazilian Portuguese dubs, while the European releases could have the French, German and Portuguese dubs from S.O.F.I./AB Groupe
-The Dragon Books could have extra information regarding the many dubs and releases, and maybe a section on why this release exists

[jjgp1112]

Anyways, my ultimate release would simply be a color corrected Dragon Box but with all the special features from the Season Set blu rays and 30th anniversary sets. And a redub of episodes 68 to say...the Cell Games so that portion of the series can actually be watchable (with some partial revisions to the Ultimatebauncut dub. Mainly the stuff that was carried over from the Ocean dub thats still inaccurate like Vegeta offering Goku to join him and Gokus reasons for sparing Vegeta). Broadcast audio for Japanese, while for English we get the Japanese music, revised dub with broadcast audio, and then the original uncut 99-03 dub.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

-Possibly the promos and bumpers from the Saban syndication era and Toonami USA/UK airings

Lance Heiskell, who we have to thank for the Rock the Dragon collection being a thing said in an interview for the Kanzenshuu podcast that Funimation asked Cartoon Network for the bumpers but they couldn't provide them, so they may no longer have them. If that's the case Cartoon Network UK probably wouldn't be any more willing. I do wish that Crunchyroll/Funimation would source fan recordings like Discotek, as there's a lot of great stuff out in the wild that would otherwise be lost to time.

I agree with everything you said though, I say the Westwood dub and equivalent Ocean edits of the Funimation dub are a must as neither has ever been released on home video.

[Metalwario64]

All I want... is just the Dragon Box masters with the Japanese version and the English version with the replacement score (preferably please undo the redubbing and also no need for the Japanese music option since I will watch Kai dubbed for a more faithful experience now). That way I can watch the original version and also enjoy the version I watched as a kid when I'm feeling nostalgic.

The fact that it's been this long and still we're getting awful releases is frustrating. I just want a decent 4:3 release with the audio options I want. Not the super space taking singles with the crusty old tape masters, not the orange bricks with all of those "remaster" problems and not the non-Level set Blu-ray's with all of their smearing, panning and fake grain in the 4:3 versions.

I'm hoping with that Crunchyroll merger thing that we might get something decent in the future, but I'm kinda just beyond caring as well at this point because it's been so damn long.

[jjgp1112]

All I want... is just the Dragon Box masters with the Japanese version and the English version with the replacement score (preferably please undo the redubbing and also no need for the Japanese music option since I will watch Kai dubbed for a more faithful experience now). That way I can watch the original version and also enjoy the version I watched as a kid when I'm feeling nostalgic.

The fact that it's been this long and still we're getting awful releases is frustrating. I just want a decent 4:3 release with the audio options I want. Not the super space taking singles with the crusty old tape masters, not the orange bricks with all of those "remaster" problems and not the non-Level set Blu-ray's with all of their smearing, panning and fake grain in the 4:3 versions.

I'm hoping with that Crunchyroll merger thing that we might get something decent in the future, but I'm kinda just beyond caring as well at this point because it's been so damn long.

I think CrunchyRoll is just Funimation with new skin but it does seem like Sony is calling the shots more directly now...so there's some glimmer of hope.

[Metalwario64]

All I want... is just the Dragon Box masters with the Japanese version and the English version with the replacement score (preferably please undo the redubbing and also no need for the Japanese music option since I will watch Kai dubbed for a more faithful experience now). That way I can watch the original version and also enjoy the version I watched as a kid when I'm feeling nostalgic.

The fact that it's been this long and still we're getting awful releases is frustrating. I just want a decent 4:3 release with the audio options I want. Not the super space taking singles with the crusty old tape masters, not the orange bricks with all of those "remaster" problems and not the non-Level set Blu-ray's with all of their smearing, panning and fake grain in the 4:3 versions.

I'm hoping with that Crunchyroll merger thing that we might get something decent in the future, but I'm kinda just beyond caring as well at this point because it's been so damn long.

I think CrunchyRoll is just Funimation with new skin but it does seem like Sony is calling the shots more directly now...so there's some glimmer of hope.

Alrighty. I just read about it when it happened and was unsure of exactly what it entailed.

[theoriginalbilis]

At this point, I'd just be fine with the Dragon Box footage available for purchase in English-speaking territories again. Preferably with some color-correction, and on Blu-Ray or even SD-on-Blu-Ray since either way there would be way less compression.

I'd love for the Japanese Broadcast audio to be officially available, but we know Toei likes to pretend those don't exist.

It's kind of wild to think that fans are creating better restorations of the original 3 series than any of the official companies.

[KPike87]

Level Sets (1080p transfer, little DNR) but with better color correction and no crushed blacks, Japanese title cards in place of the plain looking English ones (or at least use the same font as the OG dub/OB's), the dub with Kikuchi's score and the dub score, along with Japanese audio of course, with the same subs as previous releases. I say do sorta what Kai did in Japan; give the Blu Ray's the true 4:3 frame while the downscaled, DVD equivalents are widescreen for people that like that.

[Super Kal]

i think i would do two different versions at the same time if I could... a blu-ray release and a standard dvd release, with both the broadcast audio and the Dragon Box audio, both Funimation audios, and maybe even give the optionfor both the 4:3 ratio and the 16:9 ratio version, giving people the ability to watch the version they like

which also makes me think:
i saw the level of quality that they were doing with the Level sets, and i think it proves that a true blu-ray version can be made without fake grain and blurry art, but what i dont understand is why they stopped. now that it's 2022, maybe someone could fill me in on exactly why they never continued with that particular release. i read ocne that it had to do with budgeting, but i dont know if thats true...

i truly do think that if they had continued with the Level Sets, I'm betting they would have been the perfect release for many DBZ fans.

and in today's day and age, with how far technology has come since then, if it really was the budget, i would think the process now would not only be cheaper, but also a little bit quicker, since computers are now much more advanced and we can do things we couldnt do back then

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

and in today's day and age, with how far technology has come since then, if it really was the budget, i would think the process now would not only be cheaper, but also a little bit quicker, since computers are now much more advanced and we can do things we couldnt do back then

Funimation weren't even taking advantage of the technology that was available to them in 2010 for the level sets. It was a cheap remaster, but it beats out all the other releases as it lacks the excessive DVNR and cropping.

With regards to the process itself the scanner Funimation used for the level sets was the Spirit DataCine scanner from 1996, which had a number of problems compared to more modern scanners:

• unbeknownst to most people working on the restoration the DataCine defaulted to using artificial sharpening
• due to the age of the sensor they were not able to capture enough of the grain structure
• as a result of the above scanner noise was introduced, which made the image look more digital than was necessary
• the levels were scanned at 1080p and not the industry standard of 2 or 3K minimum

Don't get me wrong I love the level sets, they're not the perfect remaster, if Funimation did the entire series that way I'd be happy, but they could have done better even with 2010 technology, let alone today.

[Robo4900]

Two options, depending on my mood:

1. Either a 1080p Funimation transfer of DB (if it exists) or their original standard def transfer from the 90s/00s, Funimation's 1080p transfer of DBZ colour corrected by Steve Franko in 2011, and cleaned up in 2013, and the Dragon Box transfer of GT, in 4:3, no DNR. Japanese broadcast/master audio, Steve Simmons' and Clyde Mandelin's subtitles with a round of TLC to fix old errors and weird choices he'd do differently nowadays, and a new uncut English dub of DB, Z, and GT done by Ocean.

2. The complete Ocean anthology; all the Saban Z episodes, all the Ocean-edited Funi episodes of Z 54-107, the Westwood Ocean dub of the rest of Z (with the Ocean edit of the Funi dub as an additional audio track, where available), the complete Blue Water dubs of DB and GT, the Ocean dub of Kai, and ideally also the unreleased Vendar dub of Z movie 1, and the BLT dub with the 1994 "Zero" version of DB movie 1. All taken from the original masters and put on DVD in their native NTSC format, using the least-edited version of each episode. (So GT episode 64 has its full montage, for instance)

[DBZAOTA482]

Level Set master but with proper opening/ending credits and Orange Bricks price.

[Forte224]

Remember when FUNimation posted the raw screenshots in their promotional material for the 30th set? Crop those to 4:3, use the broadcast audio, change title cards/OP/ED based on what language is being used, then do it for DB/Z/GT and call it a day.