Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 89 - Official Discussion Thread

[PurestEvil]

Spoiler:

Staff Officer Black. Don't care what anyone thinks of his design. He's a skilled combatant, effectively 2nd in command of the entire RRA. Only dealing with Commander Red's harassment because he believed in the goal of using the Dragonballs to place the world under their control. When it came to light Red just wanted to use them to make himself taller than anyone on Earth, Black had no qualms killing his Commander and assuming control of the RRA in order to fulfill their objective of world conquest.

Spoiler:

General Blue. He's basically Aryan, but has no issues with his comrades. Except if they're incompetent or weak. He's a capable fighter with a special ability and cares about his appearance. He's basically the Original Zarbon. Oh and he's gay. And nobody was throwing fits because he thought Bulma was icky for trying to use her womanly charms on him.

You totally gloss over the facts that Staff Officer Black's design looks like a minstrel/blackface and that General Blue was a homophobic caricature. They aren't even the only characters made with racist or homophobic overtones (think Mr. Popo or that one guy who hit on Trunks at the tournament in EoZ). "Diversity" means shit if the "diverse" characters are made to put minorities down. We appreciate this latest chapter's attempts at inclusiveness because it DOESN'T involve harmful stereotypes of them. It seems that you've confused yourself here.

While I would like to see anthropomorphic animals be included more (for the sake of in-universe consistency), that is entirely irrelevant to the topic you attempted.

[YMK_8000]

You know aggressively mid chapters like these last 2 where it’s just an endless cavalcade of superfluous dogshit. Is when I wish we could have a GameShark that works for real life instead of video games so we could give Toyo x999 Rare Candys so he could get on the level of a modern day shounen manga artist.

[Magnificent Ponta]

(Reads through topic, regrets having done so)

Anyway, the Chapter was a lot of fun, again. I think this one was a little tighter than the last, just because of the fun runaway focus on the rivalry between Beta/Hedo and Trunks that occupies much of the Chapter - that felt like a very classic Toriyama move, with the characters getting carried away in the moment and ending up totally side-tracked from the main point of things; it was very silly and I enjoyed that a lot.

I also like that after introducing Trunks as a goofy cool-obsessed-but-actually-kinda-lame protag in the classic Toriyama style, this Chapter also gives us the sense that (while still obviously overshadowed by his more polished, better put-together grown-up Future self), Trunks actually has his own style of 'cool' that he's still growing into, with his very suave and natural counters to Beta's attempts at exposure/sabotage that make him look very slick and self-assured, particularly when compared with his Mai-provoked self-consciousness in other parts of the Chapter.

I also like the connective ideas in the Chapter that sort of bring things back around to Gohan as a throughline: Trunks and Goten (despite the more immediate CleanGod influence) are obviously inspired by Gohan's original Great Saiyaman aesthetic and schtick generally in their hero work, and this is in turn clearly depicted as a huge inspiration for Hedo's design of the Gammas, who in turn will bring things back around to confront Gohan for Super Hero; that's a nice tidy conceptual loop that binds Gohan more closely to a story where fans often claim he's a bit of a tacked-on addition.

Otherwise, I think there really does need to be a strong push for some progression in other plotlines, or introduction of other plotlines, if this arc is going to last longer than just a couple more Chapters (and at this point, I think we must assume that it will). Gero's disc is the obvious way for this to advance in the short term, I guess, and the fact that Mai is now (mistakenly) thought to have the disc and is now a target for the Alphas to retrieve it will probably be the way this goes for the next Chapter or two, with some slightly more action-y beats around the general hijinks and goofery.

[YamiGoku]

I think the Dragon Ball world feels more real this way, because it would be weird for a high School to have only white students and teachers.

My only complains with the chapter is that they made Trunks too much of a goof, I understand that he is a teen and he dosent have to be a genius, but they are going a bit hard with the dumbness, He thinking beta may be a ghost is a bit too dumb.

Still, really enjoyed this chapter.

I never really saw them as all being white (both in Z and Super). Thats really kind of odd, but yea characters like Angela (in Z) I can see as being white as well as Trunks friend (based off of having an asian and black friend). Not sure wich characters are supposed asian with dyed/bleached hair tho, but thats down to the art style/no info *that I am aware of*. But there are clearly Japanese characters and a lot of Japanese educational culture mixed in (cause well, its a comic aimed at the Japanese lol). I think the main takeaway is that there is now a Black (or atleast mixed) character which is a big shift or Dragon Ball.

Yeah, maybe I should have said "It would be weird for them to be all asian" my bad, I changed that post so manny times from what I originally wrote that I messed up.

With Trunks, he's really shaping up to become GT Trunks

I think GT trunks was a bit smarther(I think?) but yeah.

[Yuji]

Yawn, not another thread ruined by the schizoid representation discourse.

People: "Wow, it sure is cool that different racial and ethnic minorities are being represented in DB now"

Some people: "WHO CARES! REPRESENTATION IRRELEVANT! NARCISSISM! SCHIZOIDS! BSGTYGAFGRGT"

I dunno, seems like the people who are most vocal about this are the people complaining about people being happy about representation.

Start here.

This unhinged strawman response isn't the dunk you think it is. Not wanting to partake in the 72nd discussion over representation this week doesn't mean you're uninformed on the subject or that you have the wrong opinions. Amazing how I've made absolutely no judgement on representation this chapter and yet you managed to surmise my position and side over a single post.

[VegettoEX]

I mean, you literally called it “schizoid representation discourse.” You pretty succinctly summed up your stance there.

If you’re not interested, cool. Don't talk about it. Don’t undermine the people who ARE talking about it and ARE finding value in the discussion.

I don’t pop into every strength discussion and say, “Ugh, this same old schizoid power level discourse again.” I don’t pop into every canonicity discussion to say, “Ugh, this same old schizoid V-Jump vs. Toriyama discourse again.” My fingers would have broken twenty years ago.

This is so easy. Just let them chat.

[Yuji]

I mean, you literally called it “schizoid representation discourse.” You pretty succinctly summed up your stance there.

I'm not interested in the discussion. It doesn't necessarily mean I'm on the side of "REPRESENTATION IRRELEVANT! NARCISSISM! SCHIZOIDS! BSGTYGAFGRGT." I'm not interested in the discussion, TKA is saying I don't care about representation period and I'm on the side of the uninformed boogeymen he's arguing against. That's ascribing me a position I don't hold and I only responded because I was directly addressed, or else I would be content in leaving a throwaway comment as a part of a larger post on the the chapter as a whole.

I don’t pop into every strength discussion and say, “Ugh, this same old schizoid power level discourse again.” I don’t pop into every canonicity discussion to say, “Ugh, this same old schizoid V-Jump vs. Toriyama discourse again.” My fingers would have broken twenty years ago.

This is just wrong. Any time an episode or chapter thread is overrun with strength discussions or other generally off-topic talk, some moderator or admin will chime in telling people to take it to the appropriate thread. This is a discussion thread on the chapter. The representation aspect is a very minor and almost negligible aspect confined to literally one panel. This is the same as when users focus on powerlevel discussions for an entire thread. Of course to people who have political brainrot it seems like it's not the same, but excuse me if I'd rather discuss the actual chapter and its content instead of miserably shoving politics down people's throats all the time.

[JulieYBM]

Representation discussion examines how art affects how actual, real people are seen and discussed both in the arts and in society. Strength discussion is a fart in the wind because Gokuu defeating Bugs Bunny in a martial arts match doesn't affect anyone.

[Yuji]

Representation discussion examines how art affects how actual, real people are seen and discussed both in the arts and in society. Strength discussion is a fart in the wind because Gokuu defeating Bugs Bunny in a martial arts match doesn't affect anyone.

Representation discussion on a niche anime forum full of people who already agree with you affects absolutely nobody. This is what I mean by political brainrot. Publish an actual essay if you're interested in the subject, by all means.

[JulieYBM]

Representation discussion examines how art affects how actual, real people are seen and discussed both in the arts and in society. Strength discussion is a fart in the wind because Gokuu defeating Bugs Bunny in a martial arts match doesn't affect anyone.

Representation discussion on a niche anime forum full of people who already agree with you affects absolutely nobody. This is what I mean by political brainrot. Publish an actual essay if you're interested in the subject, by all means.

If everyone already agreed with me I wouldn't have people consistently across multiple threads for the past four years calling me weird names because I responded to their weird, anti-feminist/anti-queer theory posts. Like, just don't respond if it bothers you that much that someone is having a discussion you don't like (in this case a discussion celebrating half-way decent and non-offensive representation and the hopes for even more improvements in the future). I do it all the time, believe it or not.

[VegettoEX]

I do not understand* this need to proudly exclaim, in the middle of a bunch of people having a good time and talking about what they want to talk about, "Hey everyone! I'm not interested in what you're talking about!"

(*If I had to guess, it's actually a purposeful attempt at distraction and disruption, all to later say "Hey, look how unproductive and pointless these conversations are!")

As both a forum moderator and overall administrator of this site, I am telling you that if people want to talk about representation in a discussion thread about a chapter that is actually engaging with that, that is in fact on-topic and people are allowed (encouraged!) to talk about it.

As you already did in the rest of your post, you can also just talk about... all the other stuff in the chapter! You can just do that! It's free! You're free! We're all free to do that!

But stop shitting on people. God damn. The end.

[Yuji]

I do not understand* this need to proudly exclaim, in the middle of a bunch of people having a good time and talking about what they want to talk about, "Hey everyone! I'm not interested in what you're talking about!"

Again, it was a throwaway - snarky as it was - line as part of an overall bigger commentary on the chapter. I wouldn't have pursued the discussion any further if TKA hadn't addressed me directly and ascribed me positions I never claimed to hold. Not being interested in the discussion doesn't necessarily mean you think representation is a bad thing and I would appreciate it if they - and others who may have gotten that impression - didn't come to unnecessary conclusions based on my mere distaste over the discussion itself.

With that being said, the entire reason I made the comment in the first place is because as we've seen time and time again whenever politics are brought up, people get heated, moderation is enforced leading to threads being locked and users banned. It's an entirely needless ordeal we don't need to go over for the umpteenth time.

[Shorty GZ2]

My opinions on the chapter haven't especially changed from my impressions of the leaks besides moreso that Trunks needs to be removed from the courts as both a menace & a bum. I liked it overall.

Also, this might take the cake for the top 1 cringeworthy discussion thread on this forum I've ever been present inside of, which is saying something. The 1st page being normal enough, only for bro saying he liked the rep in this chapter inducing a chain reaction of cringey mald over that &/or the resulting discussion which dominoed from it lol

[capsulecorp]

In general, I think a lot of people could stand to post less. There's a couple users on here where, when I see their username, I just ignore the post because I know what they're going to say. Just an intensely tedious repetitive single-mindedness. It seems like, instead of posting well, there's a strange desire to... just post more? Or maybe people think that by posting the same opinions so much, they can manufacture a false sense of consensus, as if we can't tell?

Anyway, I'm sure I'm like that to some people! I bet some of you see my icon and say, oh, I know I can skip this. And that's fine. But I do try not to post very often, and I think that's something that a lot of people could stand to consider.

[AtlasFlame18]

I do not understand* this need to proudly exclaim, in the middle of a bunch of people having a good time and talking about what they want to talk about, "Hey everyone! I'm not interested in what you're talking about!"

Again, it was a throwaway - snarky as it was - line as part of an overall bigger commentary on the chapter. I wouldn't have pursued the discussion any further if TKA hadn't addressed me directly and ascribed me positions I never claimed to hold. Not being interested in the discussion doesn't necessarily mean you think representation is a bad thing and I would appreciate it if they - and others who may have gotten that impression - didn't come to unnecessary conclusions based on my mere distaste over the discussion itself.

With that being said, the entire reason I made the comment in the first place is because as we've seen time and time again whenever politics are brought up, people get heated, moderation is enforced leading to threads being locked and users banned. It's an entirely needless ordeal we don't need to go over for the umpteenth time.

If you are not interested in that aspect of the discussion then shut up and post about something in the chapter. The snarky comment indicates that not only you aren't interested in the discussion but the discussion is worthy of being derided. You brought this upon yourself. Stop being a snowflake when people criticize you on a public forum for your public statements.


As for the chapter itself, I am really enjoying Goten being the straight man to Trunks. He feels like the most well-adjusted of the Son family when it comes to social interactions but even he still has his Goku-isms such as using his super strength in public. Dr. Hedo is still funny as ever and his love-hate for the Saiyaman Xs is something that I hope we see more of in the post-Super Hero landscape. The Mai/Trunks relationship still weirds me out due to the maturity gap but at least Trunks is making himself more distinct from his Future Adult Counterpart. Makes me wonder how close to GT his personality will be.

[Yuji]

If you are not interested in that aspect of the discussion then shut up and post about something in the chapter. The snarky comment indicates that not only you aren't interested in the discussion but the discussion is worthy of being derided. You brought this upon yourself. Stop being a snowflake when people criticize you on a public forum for your public statements.

I don't want to turn the thread into a metaconversation, so if you want to continue we can do so via DMs, but I'll just address this point. Firstly, I did post about "something" in the chapter, twice even. Go back and have a look. Folks took a throaway comment and responded to it, which is fine. They are entitled to do so and I'm entitled to reply. Nobody's acting like a snowflake, there's no need to use meaningless buzzwords - people accused me of having positions I don't hold, and I'm defending myself accordingly to avoid being mischaracterized in the future, that's all. Yes, I think the discussion is worth being derided, and yet that betrays absolutely nothing about the position I have within the discussion itself, which as I've already said is on the side that representation is a positive thing. If nobody made the association that I think representation is bad because I dislike the discussion, then I wouldn't have continued replying. I think defending yourself from a bad characterization is perfectly reasonable and I don't get the whole "heh, you said you didn't care for the discussion yet here you are responding to us strawmanning you, curious" posts when I'm being mischaracterized for no reason.

[Shorty GZ2]

Well whatever, might as well talk about something actually related to the chapter. Wonder if Trunks' new superhero finishing moves (like Cyclone Style Tornado Hurricane & Steam Cleaner High Pressure) will become actual new parts of his regular moveset, or just exclusive to him as Saiyaman X-1(since I don't really expect the superhero thing to last past this arc into EOZ, but it'd be sort of pleasantly surprised if it did).
About when this arc will end, I think Toyo can milk the Gero/Hedo disk plot thread & the episodic sentai/ SOL/"romcom" format for at least 5 more chapters? Even if its a foregone conclusion, it shows on the pages that he seems to enjoy writing & drawing this lower key arc/local setting, plus Beta is still active & Hedo is churning more Androids (though he now already knows to target Mai- who publicly works/lives at Capsule Corp, Trunks & Goten).
On that note, V-Jump did previously hype up Gohan & Piccolo (who was mentioned last chapter with Pan) showing up in this arc at some point, but I'm at a bit of a loss at what to do with them pre-Super Hero besides maybe foreshadowing their big power ups. Maybe Videl in karate gear shows up? We did see Chi-Chi last chapter who seems the same as usual, along with Krillin (tho no 18, Marron, or 17, yet. Chalk guy & Filer girl also could get more screentime with Rulah, Kompas & Skale.

[MCDaveG]

All discussion is fine… what I just wonder about is, why some people need to run on sword.

Anyone can write anything, but this fight against other opinions and need to justify your stance against any other, why?

Yes, I ran into the situation where I was mislabeled, because then the conversation is usually over.
But the mandatory for a healthy relationship is communication.
And in the same way, labeling types of conversations as unnecesary or pointless, is basically doing the same thing.
Same things as ignoring some users, definitely everyone has their favorites and hated ones for some reasons, but let’s declare it and give it to them!

One question: where is the respect to each other?

On topic: What many pointed out and It’s getting hard to use to is how basically Trunks isn’t really cool. They portrayed him in GT closer to his future self snd it’s hard to shrug it off.
But maybe the characterization is on point, as this basically is the Kid Trunks but older and I wonder if there will be some character growth, or if he will stay that way.
Long story short, Trunks is kind of an idiot?
And I like Goten a lot, I want more of him.

[Konja7]

I think the Dragon Ball world feels more real this way, because it would be weird for a high School to have only white students and teachers.

To be fair, it would be impossible a school in Dragon Ball have only white students and teachers, since most characters are likely Japanese. I mean, I know Goku and Vegeta are saiyan, but their races are likely more similar to Asians than Whites.

The Mukokuseki style could make it difficult to differentiate between white and asian characters.

[BWri]

On the surface level I like the arc so far, but idk, a lot of this doesn't really feel organic. Feels like stuff is just happening.

Goten and Trunks are now the new Great Saiyamen. Okay, why? Did they get Gohan's blessing?

I get that they are thrill-seeking due to the current time of peace (and no one inviting them to battles) but last time we saw them comment on Gohan's stint as Saiyaman, they thought he was a cornball and if they were inspired by this new Mr. Clean Tokusatsu, why use the Saiyaman identity? Why not Clean Boy 1 and Clean Boy 2 or some-such.

That said, I'm having fun with it so far. It's moving fairly quickly so I think we might be in DBS: SH territory as soon as the next 2 chapters which is a shame, because just like with Gohan, I'd like more teen Goten and Trunks shenanigans.

Nice to see Bra, hopefully she's just not another Bulma. Would be nice to see her pick up fighting as well.

Honestly, I'm irrationally upset about this chapter because it kinda suggests exactly that, even if it's just part of a gag and I know it's just part of a gag. We really don't need Bulla to be Bulma, we already have Bulma for that purpose. At this point, Bulma's a character that won't ever be "phased out", much like Goku, so it's a total waste. Instead, please do literally anything else with her character. Sure, it'd be perfect if I got my warrior princess like in my fanfic, but it's not a requirement, I just want Toyotaro (or Toriyama or whoever) to not be so uncreative about it that she becomes a clone character

Bulma categorizing her children based on who they take after is a bad sign. It's still early and they can go any number of ways, I'm just not that confident.
Plus she's competing with Pan in the "emerging Saiyan Women" category. Based on trends, opportunities for her to develop are likely limited.

Yeah, I thought it was an odd bit of expository dialogue and unneeded. Bra had just shown us she was smarter than Trunks by fixing Bulma's computer so I don't know why Bulma had to double down on it and relegate Bra's narrative fate to being Bulma 2.0.